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True Detective - Season 2 - We get the Season we deserve - Sundays on HBO

C

coleco

Member
Season 1 strongest point was Rust character and monologues, which were supposedly lifted from some books. The case itself was ok but quite generic and by the end of the season the investigation and resolution had lost most steam. It wasn't a consistent work but the good outweighted the bad and the scenery, Rust and Harrelson as a counterweight made it watchable, and very enjoyable for many viewers.

This season Pizzolatto had no Rust character to plagiarize and carry the season so it was mostly his original work and he was exposed as an extremely limited and pedestrian writer, full of cliches, stupid one liners and dialogues, and without a clue on what makes things work,
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
I think the only way the show even semi-works and what maybe pizzaman was trying to do was have a totally nihlistic season where in the end nothing mattered, and just a whole lot of people died because a random event trigged it all. Sucks to be anyone, including the plot.
 
HighResTomato

HighResTomato

Member
Ray knew the documents were save, why not turn yourself in and expose them to the Feds or whatever. Instead of randomly driving into the woods where there is signal and you lose the only transport that kept you save.


Also come on, as if FBI forensics would not be able to get data from that recorder.

What a mess of all show, complete horse shit.
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck you, Nic, fuck this shit, fuck you, I hate this shit so much.

Though Frank hallucinating in the desert is not bad. Lovely cinematography. Frank's end scene is pretty interesting.

Fuck you, Burris. Fuck you, Ray. Fuck you, Nic.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
I loved the finale.

I haven't read the thread so I don't know if all of your fuckers are shitting on Frank's desert scene but I hope not. That's was a great scene.
 
T

The Driver

Member
Wow to the episode. Why you do me like this pizza? Just idk...it felt reactionary to the people who bitched the S1 finale was too happy and neat so we get this ending where everyone goes suicidal and everyone gets fucked.

It's obscene that
Paul, Ray, and Frank all took the stupidest and most avoidable deaths. One willingly walks into a death trap for his dirty laundry, another purposely drives to the woods for a shoot out to accomplish what, when he could have done anything else and had better chances of survival. The only thing I can think off is that Ray wanted to kill that big-eared fuck lieutenant of his, but even then he messed that up by popping around the tree too soon.

And Frank, freaking Frank, I don't know if the show wants to say it's his pride that caused him not to give up his suit or the diamonds, either excuse is dumb because they both get him killed.
All of their final moments just feel so lazy like Pizzalotto couldn't be assed to think of a plausible way to get all 3 characters to die that didn't seem like they where looking to get killed.

Really don't care for the ending either. You can have a dark ending and not have everyone get shit on. Season one had a dark ending despite both detectives surviving. They got their guy but he's tied to a much larger conspiracy involving a powerful family.
Here, three of the four '92 cop squad (arguably the season's real villains) get put down but none are done in by the leads nor are they handled in cathartic ways. Frank handles a couple of the ancillary bad guys but they are mostly unrelated to the main diamond/dirty cop plot.

The case isn't even really solved within the episode, just a hint that maybe the true story will make it to print. That's it folks, everyone dies, nothing is solved. He couldn't even come up with a decent VO for Ani that didn't sound defeated during the corrupt-figures-winning montage.
If it weren't for the fact that I grew to like these characters I'd write this season off as shit, which it mostly is. Pizzalotto had the pieces but could not execute. This is how you make a unsatisfying ending and season, damn.
 
H

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
(1 second season) * (1/2 good episodes) * (2/5 decent main characters) * (1/6 interesting plot points) * (1 unresolved feeling) * (8 episodes) = about 25% decent show.

The Driver said:
*
Click to expand...
Why are you using spoiler tags?

Also kinda funny, saying three main characters die yet hiding the details. :p
 
A

Afrocious

Member
I'm with the folks that agree there's a good story buried in Season 2. Near the second half of the season, pieces of it can be seen through the shit writing and pacing.

I can't say I hate Season 2 like some folks, though they have good reason. There were times I was legitimately entertained, even if some of those moments came from my surprise something happened that wasn't an infodump or a monologue of terrible lines.

I won't be recommending Season 2 to people, that's for sure. However, I'll just tell folks who are interested in watching it to be wary.

As for the ending: it was tense, which is good. However, I felt pizzaman wanted to make it too much of a downer for little reason. There was no sense of inevitability. No poetry. No meaning at all, unless
it was to say people...die? That's true, but with scenes like Velcoro's voice recording attachment not being sent as he's gets shot up drives a nail into some sign I guess I can't read.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
I liked that Ray's son was actually his so the ending wasn't all too depressing but they did an awful job with that kid's casting. They shouldn't have had such a huge red herring, Ray's paternity should have been a mystery to the audience until the end.

Ray's death wasn't too surprising since they hinted at it earlier in the season but I actually didn't want him to die. The season had a lot of issues but Ray was at least constantly good and I actually cared about him by the end.

All around the season was pretty terrible compared to season 1 but still pretty great TV compared to everything else on TV. If they're doing a season 3 they need to get another writing to help out Pizzaman so he can call him out on some of his dialogue and at times maze-like plot.
 
R

RS4-

Member
What a messy as fuck season. I don't know which was worse, this or Thrones.

Next season: both of Ray's kids are grown up, Ani teaches them how to be assassins; they go after everyone.

When they show a close up shot of Vaughn's wound, you see the diamonds. And I too thought that Scarface would kill Ani.
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
9shqxYK.gif
 
P

Plasmid

Member
Too may story lines to connect and even 90 minutes wasn't good enough. I liked the season overall. Nowhere near as good as S1 but not bad either.
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
hokahey said:
Let's put it this way. S1 was infinitely better as a whole, but S2 had the better finale.
Click to expand...
Maybe S2's finale would've gotten the nod had the character arcs been handled better. Instead of feeling tension during action scenes or grief after all the big deaths that happened, I was just ready for it to end...and I didn't even really hate this season, it was just mediocre.

S1 led its finale to an easy layup with two great mains whose backstories actually worked and enriched the main plot. The villain was pretty legit too.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
What a cliched mess, Pizzolatto bit off WAY more than he could chew. The drop off from season 1 to 2 is so massive that it's insulting that this season carried the same name.

I agree with those encouraging others to watch Mr. Robot for some quality TV, that show has been fantastic
 
A

Afrocious

Member
BadAss2961 said:
Maybe S2's finale would've gotten the nod had the character arcs been handled better. Instead of feeling tension during action scenes or grief after all the big deaths that happened, I was just ready for it to end...and I didn't even really hate this season, it was just mediocre.

S1 led its finale to an easy layup with two great mains whose backstories actually worked and enriched the main plot. The villain was pretty legit too.
Click to expand...

Precisely. I'm with you for those reasons why Season 1's ending was better.
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
So, Season 2 snapshot:

Positives:

- Lera Lynn
- Solid actors. All the leads delivered great performances with the material given.
- Birdman is a cool concept
- Conspiracies are a cool concept
- Some individuals scenes were great.
- Music

Negatives

- Shitty ending
- Shitty execution
- Wasted Birdman
- Terrible dialogue
- Whacked out pace.
- Characters were stupid and made stupid decisions on the basis of stupid things.

Sigh.

Goddammit, Nic.

Well, at least Westworld might be cool.
 
Jin

Jin

Member
I felt immense joy seeing Frank and Ray door camp and completely massacre everyone in that cabin. Watching Osip trying to talk his his way out of it before Frank empties his magazine was very satisfying.
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
Hadoken said:
I felt immense joy seeing Frank and Ray door camp and completely massacre everyone in that cabin. Watching Osip trying to talk his his way out of it before Frank empties his magazine was very satisfying.
Click to expand...

Should have just ended with the handshake and escape to Venezuela before cutting to a year later and Antigone and Ray explaining all that shit to the reporter.
 
CD'S BAR

CD'S BAR

Member
so frank's wife and mcadams are going to raise woodrugh's baby in venezuela, OKAY.

not a bad finale imo but very predictable. somehow i came to like vaughn's character the most by the end, and i don't like him in anything, including the most of this season.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
CD'S BAR said:
so frank's wife and mcadams are going to raise woodrugh's baby in venezuela, OKAY.

not a bad finale imo but very predictable. somehow i came to like vaughn's character the most by the end, and i don't like him in anything, including the most of this season.
Click to expand...

That wasn't Woodrugh's baby.
 
D

duckroll

Member
That was bad. I'll probably do a write up later detailing what I felt was really bad about it, and where the show went all wrong, and what I felt were the interesting bits from the series on a whole. Or maybe I won't. Depends on whether I feel like putting the effort into it.

Anyway, that was a wrecked finale which was not only boring and pointlessly dragged out, but it perfectly showcased how pointless the entire show was. There was no real story and none of the characters really worked. Just a disaster.
 
T

The Driver

Member
CD'S BAR said:
so frank's wife and mcadams are going to raise woodrugh's baby in venezuela, OKAY.

not a bad finale imo but very predictable. somehow i came to like vaughn's character the most by the end, and i don't like him in anything, including the most of this season.
Click to expand...
He's the only one that got a sort of dignified death instead of a cheap gun down without some dumb element to make the death more bitter (like Paul's baby momma crying to Splendor in the Grass/Ray's message not getting sent).
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Am I a bad person if I liked the season 2 finale more than the season 1 finale? A lot of it doesn't work, but there were some decent scenes. I liked Frank's scene in the desert. Maybe trying a little too hard to be a prestige show, but I enjoyed it. Where was stuff like that all season?

I guess there was no way that one episode was going to redeem the entire season. But at least I got some entertainment out of the tail end of Season 2.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Bebpo said:
I think the only way the show even semi-works and what maybe pizzaman was trying to do was have a totally nihlistic season where in the end nothing mattered, and just a whole lot of people died because a random event trigged it all. Sucks to be anyone, including the plot.
Click to expand...
That was definitely the intention- everyone to be casualties of fate. Execution was just shit.
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
For all the shit that went down this season, thrones is still worse. But then again the original story for that show is pretty bad anyway.


Really felt like pizzaman was just angry at everyone not giving him a free pass to shit on the show. All if the actors did a terrific job, too bad thr material they had to work with was horrendous.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
CD'S BAR said:
lol i know. but it wouldn't have surprised me to be honest. it was mcadams and velcoro's, i take it. so at the point the timeline has jumped like a year+, i guess, with no indication otherwise.
Click to expand...

How much more indication did you need, though?

They show a montage of things that could only happen months after the events of the season. The Mayor's son being elected, the railroad getting built, a highway getting named after Woodrough with his wife and son on stage. Ani talks about how stuff relating to what happened to Ray and her have been in the news for the past year but they were hiding away and not front page center. Ani and Jordan are also obviously now close since Ani trusted her enough to look after her kid.

I know people love shitting on the show, myself included, but it's not like they did a bad job at showing that time had passed.
 
T

The Driver

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
Am I a bad person if I liked the season 2 finale more than the season 1 finale? A lot of it doesn't work, but there were some decent scenes. I liked Frank's scene in the desert. Maybe trying a little too hard to be a prestige show, but I enjoyed it. Where was stuff like that all season?

I guess there was no way that one episode was going to redeem the entire season. But at least I got some entertainment out of the tail end of Season 2.
Click to expand...
I'll take Rust's supposed character 180 or whatever people hated about the S1 finale over nothing being solved, and everyone dying for dumb reasons. This was unsatisfying at all levels.
 
CD'S BAR

CD'S BAR

Member
Einchy said:
How much more indication did you need, though?

They show a montage of things that could only happen months after the events of the season. The Mayor's son being elected, the railroad getting built, a highway getting named after Woodrough with his wife and son on stage. Ani talks about how stuff relating to what happened to Ray and her have been in the news for the past year but they were hiding away and not front page center. Ani and Jordan are also obviously now close since Ani trusted her enough to look after her kid.

I know people love shitting on the show, myself included, but it's not like they did a bad job at showing that time had passed.
Click to expand...

text that says "One year later..."

nah, you're right though. forgot they showed all that other stuff before the baby.
 
C

captjohnboyd

Member
For some reason I got this really strong vibe that ani was on her way back to cali to settle some debts when she said they had a long road ahead of them.

It's most likely not the case, especially with her burka baby in tow, but I liked thinking it anyway
 
K

Klocker

Member
Einchy said:
I loved the finale.

I haven't read the thread so I don't know if all of your fuckers are shitting on Frank's desert scene but I hope not. That's was a great scene.
Click to expand...
I thought the whole show was pointless but I agree that scene was pretty chill. Much better than hail a bullets scene ray went out on
 
O

Omzz

Member
what a shitty way to present a story. it was all over the place from the jump and lost me a couple episodes in. there were so many things just thrown in there where I could not connect the dots. fuck a synopsis, I don't want to invest anymore time for this season
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
The Driver said:
I'll take Rust's supposed character 180 or whatever people hated about the S1 finale over nothing being solved, and everyone dying for dumb reasons. This was unsatisfying at all levels.
Click to expand...

How was it not solved? We know who did what and why but they just weren't caught. At least not until the reporter exposes them all.

Frank died because he didn't want to give up the diamond because without them he would've been broke and couldn't have given him and Jordan the life he wanted.

Ray's death happened because he loved his son and was willing to risk getting caught just to see him again. I don't think him visiting his son was "dumb", it least not badly written kind of dumb. It was a bad call on his part but I don't know if I would call it dumb.

[edit]

Their death were causes of what the characters they were. Ray's love for his kid and Frank's stubborn ego and wish to be "someone".

Would you have bought Frank giving away his suit with the only means of cash he had left? I don't.
 
A

aravuus

Member
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck you, Nic, fuck this shit, fuck you, I hate this shit so much.

Though Frank hallucinating in the desert is not bad. Lovely cinematography. Frank's end scene is pretty interesting.

Fuck you, Burris. Fuck you, Ray. Fuck you, Nic.
Click to expand...

Hahaha

Awesome reactions, can't wait to binge watch the rest of the episodes (4-8) some hungover Saturday
 
T

Tsukumo

Member
Great season.
Ending was one of the worst things I've ever seen on a tv-show. Save the Last Walk of Frank Semyon and the Out of Sight-styled intro.
I didn't like the way they handled Antigone's character. She was admittedly the most driven of the three, the way she turned her back to her job as a cop was pointless. The way she was portrayed in the entire season meant that she would have fought against all odds and any sort of logical argument to see things through. The show is called TRUE DETECTIVE for a reason! And I assume none of the possible reasons could imply for any of the characters to hand over all they had to a single journalist.
Frank story should have been shorter, not cut against Antigone's and Ray's, and should have ended midway through the episode.
The whole twins of vengeance thing was also ended poorly, as if they were just there to tie up a couple of plot-points. The kid seemed very high-functional on the set of... Mad Max, and then COMPLETELY bonkers at the airports. What?!
And for the first time I happen to agree with all the people who called out this season on its involuntary ridiculousness, when I saw the way Valcoro went. So silly. The only payback for the foreshadowing in episode 2 was seeing his father watching tv, eaten up by guilt and his illness. The final shot of the phone with that "unable to send message" close-up got a good old "are you fucking kidding me?" out of me.
Pizzaman, this time you didn't deliver.
 
K

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
With all said and done: I actually enjoyed it. It wasn't as deep or as satisfying as the first season but It didn't have the actors the first season did either. I am looking forward to a third season and it can't arrive soon enough. Entertaining stories.
 
S

sneakydomo

Banned
The luckiest person in the story was Taylor Kitsch since he didn't have to experience this overly long piece of shit episode. Nic Pizzolatto in season one was fortunate to have had his writing saved by two amazing actors, an amazing director and the fact that almost no one noticed that he plagiarized the most interesting character in the whole show from Thomas Ligotti until the show was over. Until proven otherwise Nic is a no talent plagarist in my book.
 
O

OrlanisWorks

Banned
The biggest disappointment is that nothing changed. The bad guys won, but that's not really a problem I have. It's that the bad guys never really had much of a significant place in the show that I just watched, and then they get a big part in the end of the finale. Vinci never changed and all of the criminals pretty much went untouched. The whole goddamn show was pretty much for naught. The protagonists', whom we got to know and might have become somewhat attached to (I dunno), efforts had made were pretty much flushed down a toilet. They didn't succeed in doing anything except make a couple babies, die, and disappear. Ani's little, "It's your story now," is the kind of ending that sucks; The open-ended, "who knows what happened," wipe of a narrative's asshole.

I wasn't expecting a ribbon-tied present of an ending, but at least something that justifies everything the characters went through.

Frank's dead walk in the desert and the raid with Ray was about all I wallked away from in those 90 minutes. Those two parts were great.

"Everything is fucking," indeed. Fucked that story real good.

/rant
 
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