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TV Shows that people went crazy over, but in retrospect were kinda dumb or bad

T

Timeaisis

Member
Sherlock is a good example. The first season (series) is really good and than they pull a Chris Carter and get all obsessed with the mythology and a single narrative arc. Each case is inextricably linked to the Grand Plot in such a forced and ham-fisted way that the inevitable conclusion loses all meaning and power.

I still watch it because I like the characters, though, as disappointing as the plotting has become.
 
B

border

Member
Acorn said:
Sopranos says "sup?" Except for network tv points (not familiar re American networks).
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The Sopranos wasn't serialized in remotely the same way that LOST was. In retrospect it's pretty surprisingly episodic. Most of the time you could tune into Sopranos and enjoy a story that was mostly self-contained......whereas you'd be pretty clueless if you just watched a random episode of LOST. I think Sopranos was structured in a way such that random viewers could understand what was going on through contextual clues and "Previously On" montages. LOST episodes were built upon the assumption that the viewer had pretty extensive recollections of seasons' worth of material.
 
B

brianjones

Member
border said:
The Sopranos wasn't serialized in remotely the same way that LOST was. In retrospect it's pretty surprisingly episodic. Most of the time you could tune into Sopranos and enjoy a story that was mostly self-contained......whereas you'd be pretty clueless if you just watched a random episode of LOST. I think Sopranos was structured in a way such that random viewers could understand what was going on through contextual clues and "Previously On" montages. LOST episodes were built upon the assumption that the viewer had pretty extensive recollections of seasons' worth of material.
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and thats what made sopranos so great and innovative

it didn't rely on old tv gimmicks like cliffhangers
 
O

Orb

Member
Sherlock BBC is ass, but honestly Elementary is pretty good as a cop procedural with good character focus. (i also hate benedict's face. And the casts' pretentious hatred that an asian woman is playing Watson in Elementary)

I'm gonna say a show I've always hated and has never been good but people love jerking it off:

Seinfeld

fuck Seinfeld
 
A

Aaron

Member
Timeaisis said:
Sherlock is a good example. The first season (series) is really good and than they pull a Chris Carter and get all obsessed with the mythology and a single narrative arc. Each case is inextricably linked to the Grand Plot in such a forced and ham-fisted way that the inevitable conclusion loses all meaning and power.

I still watch it because I like the characters, though, as disappointing as the plotting has become.
Click to expand...
Sherlock's plotting was always terrible though. The mysteries range from impossible to complete nonsense. There's like five impossible things in the boomerang death alone. It's Doctor Who with better leads and the same level of writing. The charm just wore off past season one, and people realized what a shitshow it had been the whole time.

But yeah the golden shitbag goes to Lost.
 
D

DarkLordMalik

Member
Westworld is terrible. I will never understand why people love this show when it tries so hard to be mysterious and fails hard in doing so. Perhaps the needless nudity and premise is what caught the interest of people but it is horribly written and entirely forgettable. I don't even remember half of the characters aside from Man in Black.

Same applies to Mr. Robot which had an average Season 1 and then took a huge nose dive in Season 2. I only enjoyed Martin Wallstorm in it so that's my reason for watching it.

Game of Thrones was once on this list but it has a lot of amazing episodes mixed with some mediocre ones so it gets a pass. Latest season is pretty good so far.
 
B

border

Member
brianjones said:
and thats what made sopranos so great and innovative

it didn't rely on old tv gimmicks like cliffhangers
Click to expand...

The Sopranos is great (or at least the first 3 seasons are).

But that's not what made it great. Or innovative. If you wanted to watch a TV show that didn't require constant viewership and prior knowledge of previous episodes' worth of plot development, there were plenty of options for you in 2000-2006. Cliffhangers were not the norm at all.

At the time I think only Alias was leaning heavy into cliffhangers, and that stopped after 2 seasons (probably due to network interference).
 
A

A Serious Man

Member
Heroes was mediocre from the very beginning, although it got much worse after season one. Dexter is in the same category, even early on the show had serious problems. A lot of writing/acting issues were overlooked because people enjoyed the concept of those shows.
 
L

LotusHD

Banned
Nappuccino said:
I came here to offer up Daredevil and The Walking Dead.

Seems like my work was already done.
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Daredevil S1 holds up pretty well, and S2 still had excellent mini-arc with the Punisher. That said, it's kind of weird that we're bringing up shows that have yet to be actually finished like GoT for example.

DarkLordMalik said:
Westworld is terrible. I will never understand why people love this show when it tries so hard to be mysterious and fails hard in doing so. Perhaps the needless nudity and premise is what caught the interest of people but it is horribly written and entirely forgettable. I don't even remember half of the characters aside from Man in Black.
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I dunno man, your memory might just be poor :p
 
O

Orb

Member
UncleSporky said:
What about Supernatural?

I get the impression that it tricked general audiences into thinking it was about two brothers hunting evil, some X-Files type stuff, but quickly found itself with a very specific fanbase and devolved into into extreme fan service and soap opera tropes.
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It started more X-File-y but eventually became a biblical drama focusing heavily on Angels/Demons but honestly.... That's the best part of the series. Season 4 and 5, and season 9-11 were super heavy on Demons and Angels but are IMO still the best.

I want to like season 7 because the concept of Leviathans are rad but god was it just so boring. I remember NOTHING.

Crowley is the best character in the show
 
R

Renegade Frost

Banned
DarkLordMalik said:
Westworld is terrible. I will never understand why people love this show when it tries so hard to be mysterious and fails hard in doing so. Perhaps the needless nudity and premise is what caught the interest of people but it is horribly written and entirely forgettable. I don't even remember half of the characters aside from Man in Black.

Same applies to Mr. Robot which had an average Season 1 and then took a huge nose dive in Season 2. I only enjoyed Martin Wallstorm in it so that's my reason for watching it.

Game of Thrones was once on this list but it has a lot of amazing episodes mixed with some mediocre ones so it gets a pass. Latest season is pretty good so far.
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Very terrible opinion.

Westworld is about exploring people, the mystery is more or less a vehicle to do that, but its not the thtrust of the show. It's an exploration of what it means to see yourself when you look at a mirror.

Mr Robot is a really fun show to watch too, Season 2 was better than season 1 as an actual show. the one thing I will say is I dont know what Rami Malek is trying to do with the plot, where's he trying to bring it to? Because its a tool to reveal something interesting about the people he' has experiencing it..
 
B

brianjones

Member
border said:
The Sopranos is great (or at least the first 3 seasons are).

But that's not what made it great. Or innovative. If you wanted to watch a TV show that didn't require constant viewership and prior knowledge of previous episodes' worth of plot development, there were plenty of options for you in 2000-2006. Cliffhangers were not the norm at all.

At the time I think only Alias was leaning heavy into cliffhangers, and that stopped after 2 seasons (probably due to network interference).
Click to expand...

its the best show of all time, but yes, its not the only thing that made it great. But it legitimized that form of tv storytelling. Basically every great show thats come since you can trace its source back

keep in mind I don't think that highly of TV as most people seem to these days.. I think there are only a handful of truly great dramas
 
Z

Zukkoyaki

Member
Friends.

Not necessarily a bad show, but it's just your typical sitcom with nothing remotely interesting or unique about it.
 
B

border

Member
brianjones said:
its the best show of all time, but yes, its not the only thing that made it great. But it legitimized that form of tv storytelling. Basically every great show thats come since you can trace its source back
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In terms of serialized narratives, I would probably argue that Sopranos wasn't that different from predecessors like Homicide: Life on the Street, OZ, or Twin Peaks. I think it just landed at time when serialization was more acceptable due to a thriving home video market that allowed people to keep up with an ongoing story. I suppose you could say the same thing about LOST though.

The Sopranos' influence is felt largely in its anti-hero narrative. The Shield was similarly both episodic and serialized, and also featured a badguy leading man that wasn't conventionally attractive.
 
R

Renegade Frost

Banned
LotusHD said:
Well, you ain't gonna find defending One Piece the anime nowadays, manga on the other hand, nah lol

And yea, Dragonball's a good example, due to the whole power level nonsense. Still a classic though.
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yeah.

Regarding Arrow,

Arrow is the Fire Emblem Awakening of the DC Network.

Lol.

Arrow Season 1 had very very bad acting, but it was carried almost entirely on the backs of Moira Queen and Barrowman, the acting was horrible. And the overarching mystery was actually pretty well told.

But the character preformances were very very bad. The show improved on this with time, but they'd already used up all the good material in season 1 and season 2.

Season 1 of the flash was a better execution of this same concept of a villain carrying the show.

but then they committed the ultimate sin after 2 seasons of speedsters,

They made a third one.

I checked out aat that minute because they literally were just rehashing shit I'd already seen. Now they screwed up Barry by making him literally fuck everything up again and again and again so he can have relationships with other people and then mess those up so they can keep telling you a story with no damn conclusion because that is what all comics are esentially cursed to be.

This is why spider man is my favorite and he's also the saddest character ever

Timeaisis said:
Sherlock is a good example. The first season (series) is really good and than they pull a Chris Carter and get all obsessed with the mythology and a single narrative arc. Each case is inextricably linked to the Grand Plot in such a forced and ham-fisted way that the inevitable conclusion loses all meaning and power.

I still watch it because I like the characters, though, as disappointing as the plotting has become.
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkoGBOs5ecM

Good analysis on narratives
 
M

Meatfist

Member
American Horror Story

The first season was ok, the second was pretty good, the rest is absolute trash. The anthology concept is nifty, but it feels like every season is just trying to top itself in terms of campiness while falling flat every time. My group of friends go apeshit for every new season, then lose interest by episode 3 or 4, every single time
 
B

brianjones

Member
border said:
In terms of serialized narratives, I would probably argue that Sopranos wasn't that different from predecessors like Homicide: Life on the Street, OZ, or Twin Peaks. I think it just landed at time when serialization was more acceptable due to a thriving home video market that allowed people to keep up with an ongoing story. I suppose you could say the same thing about LOST though.
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I admit Im not familiar with homicide but OZ was like a glorified after school special lol.. I enjoyed it for what it was but like

oz-augustus-hill.jpg
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twin peaks for sure .. David chase was particularly influenced by the dream sequences, but that show was way more scattershot than sopranos.. it only maintained its focus for like a season before going off the rails in season 2

border I apologize to you for getting heated sopranos is my baby
 
L

LotusHD

Banned
Renegade Frost said:
CW
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Both Flash and Arrow have had good seasons (Flash has only had 1 though), but I dunno, I always assumed that no one was ever under any impression that they weren't watching shows rife with plenty of issues. We just give it a pass somewhat because it's a comic book show, and even then it is definitely testing our limits at how contrived it can get at times.
 
H

HotHamBoy

Member
Sheroking said:
Oh ffs. In it's broadest definition, every show ever is a soap. CSI is a soap.

Finish reading the article and see the literal dozens of examples given and see if Game of Thrones is like any of them.
Click to expand...

I'll just keep calling it a soap. Because it is.


You don't have to. I really don't care.

It's also not that great of a show. You don't have to agree.

I don't care.
 
R

Renegade Frost

Banned
LotusHD said:
Both Flash and Arrow have had good seasons (Flash has only had 1 though), but I dunno, I always assumed that no one was ever under any impression that they weren't watching shows rife with plenty of issues. We just give it a pass somewhat because it's a comic book show, and even then it is definitely testing our limits at how contrived it can get at times.
Click to expand...

Season 2 was great lmao

Did you read any spiderman comics?
 
K

kendrid

Banned
Meatfist said:
American Horror Story

The first season was ok, the second was pretty good, the rest is absolute trash. The anthology concept is nifty, but it feels like every season is just trying to top itself in terms of campiness while falling flat every time. My group of friends go apeshit for every new season, then lose interest by episode 3 or 4, every single time
Click to expand...

Add me to your group of friends. I loved S1 but every other season I lost interest by episode 4 or so. I have given up on the show. I want to like it but it just isn't good enough to continue watching.
 
E

Exodust

Banned
I will never understand how Californication ever got popular. Maybe because Duchovny is legit charismatic, but even then you'd expect a show about a writer to have good writing.

I hatewatched the entirety of it a bit after it went off the air and was perplexed by how it was one of the bigger and more celebrated shows of it's time.
 
D

DarkLordMalik

Member
LotusHD said:
I dunno man, your memory might just be poor :p
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This only happens with shows I don't enjoy. I still remember every major character in Six Feet Under. Even the dead dad had a better character exposition than anyone in Westworld aside from Man in Black. Same for Breaking Bad. Six Feet Under and Breaking Bad belong to my top shows and The Wire that I watched for the first time was also amazing. Still remember little Omar and even some of the gang members that were killed early in show.

Orb said:
Seinfeld

fuck Seinfeld
Click to expand...
This.

As someone who started to watch it recently, the show is terrible with barely any humor.
 
B

border

Member
brianjones said:
I admit Im not familiar with homicide but OZ was like a glorified after school special lol.. I enjoyed it for what it was but like
Click to expand...

Homicide is worth checking out, but I don't know if there are any streaming services that offer it. At face value, Homicide looks like any other police procedural, but it dives deep into the lives of homicide detectives and the cases they face. Cases are sometimes not solved within an episode's 40-60 minute runtime, and sometimes cases went completely unsolved. Unsolved cases often resurface seasons later. Homicide was pretty much the blueprint for The Wire, which had many of the same creative staff.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Exodust said:
I will never understand how Californication ever got popular. Maybe because Duchovny is legit charismatic, but even then you'd expect a show about a writer to have good writing.

I hatewatched the entirety of it a bit after it went off the air and was perplexed by how it was one of the bigger and more celebrated shows of it's time.
Click to expand...

It was neither one of the bigger or more celebrated shows at it's time. It was always this filthy quirky thing in the corner. Like, half of what Entourage was coming from a similar place.

Except Duchovny has "it", and Californication really did some outlandish salacious shit that made me go "wow, Showtime let them do that?". It really doesn't hold up at all, though.
 
B

Brinbe

Member
Of course almost every show of any acclaim is gonna get name-dropped in a thread like this. What's harder is to find a consensus on what shows earn their praise.
 
L

LotusHD

Banned
Renegade Frost said:
Season 2 was great lmao
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Nah, the rest of the season didn't live up to that brutal beatdown Zoom gave the Flash. Then after he was unmasked, he basically went full Kylo Ren, just wasn't menacing anymore, especially due to him being attracted to Caitlin which was dumb as hell. Or that gem of a scene where Barry willingly gives him his speed despite no having any reason to do so. And to top it off, the season ends... with a race.

And nah, I don't read comics
 
D

dead souls

Member
border said:
Yeah, I don't get the Friends hate. It isn't as good as it seemed in 1996, but was it really dumb? Or bad? No. It's still pretty fun if you're willing to adhere to the conventions of a multi-camera/live audience sitcom.

We recently had a "Did Friends age well?" thread and the major criticism of the show was that it didn't adhere to modern sensibilities about social issues. Which is kind of what you'd expect from a sitcom that is 20 years old.
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Agreed. Every now and then I'll stumble upon a repeat of it and end up watching 15-20 minutes of it before I get back to whatever I was doing. It's still amusing to me.
 
P

Piscus

Member
Danny Rand sucked. I loved him in some of his comics, but the character in the show was the worst. Not at all how I imagined he should be. Ward was good. Davos was the best thing to come out of it. The Iron Fist sucks at martial arts in this show.
 
E

Exodust

Banned
Sheroking said:
It was neither one of the bigger or more celebrated shows at it's time. It was always this filthy quirky thing in the corner. Like, half of what Entourage was coming from a similar place.

Except Duchovny has "it", and Californication really did some outlandish salacious shit that made me go "wow, Showtime let them do that?". It really doesn't hold up at all, though.
Click to expand...

Guess I was under that impression because I found it to be one of the most talked about shows wherever I looked during it's earlier seasons.

I was kinda shocked by how much I disliked it. I usually like "edgey" shows but found it to be mostly juvenile and dumb but not in a good way. I did like Duchovny in it, but I like Duchovny in anything.
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
Sherlock S1&2 are still amazing. It's a highly competent show with some outstanding writing, cinematography, editing and acting talent. It's one of the poster childs of modern TV shows. No other show comes close to being as slick as Sherlock. Moffat & co-writers are soley responsible for the show's downfall in the later seasons

S7 of GoT on the other hand feels like a really, really dumb fantasy show right now. The earlier seasons draw you in with intriguing political sheming and backstabbing, then that sort of goes away and you keep watching for the buddy road trips and character moments, and now they rush towards the conclusion of the show and everything comes across as either unintentionally hilarious or cringe-inducing. Sure, I still watch it because I want to see how it ends after all those years, but I don't feel good about it
 
L

LotusHD

Banned
Piscus said:
Danny Rand sucked. I loved him in some of his comics, but the character in the show was the worst. Not at all how I imagined he should be. Ward was good. Davos was the best thing to come out of it. The Iron Fist sucks at martial arts in this show.
Click to expand...

Okay, now I know ever hyped up Iron Fist after it came out lol
 
K

KahooTs

Member
I knew most these shows for what they were at the time, granted Westworld had me fooled for a while. But it is Spartacus I find myself contemplating in the shower, I think it is one of the greatest shows ever, but at the same time can't help shake the feeling the distance for retrospect just hasn't been arrived at yet.
 
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