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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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Not planning on it, without May on stage, I don't see what I'd get from watching a debate that I haven't already gotten from the other coverage.
Little Old Man
Member
Yeah, I feel people will get carried away with the polling and start believing it will be a close contest. At this point it's very much how many seats can Labour protect from the Tories than how many can they gain.
It would take weeks of solid polling numbers before I even began to believe things were getting substantially closer.
But only if they need a certain type of care for a long time.
Fuck the conservatives.
Their shitty immigration proposals will make it more difficult for my girlfriend and some of my best friends to stay in the UK. and my fucking dad will probably vote for them.
Equal opportunity my arse.
Ta. I'll pass on the info.
Their shitty immigration proposals will make it more difficult for my girlfriend and some of my best friends to stay in the UK. and my fucking dad will probably vote for them.
Equal opportunity my arse.
Ta. I'll pass on the info.
Welcome to the Mainstream!
Sorry that sounds shitty, I would recommend she talks to a good immigration lawyer asap, there's a lot of free clinic style things running all over the country since Brexit
Speaking as someone who has no problem with right wing policies in general, the conservative manifesto is just so uninspired. They could figuratively get away with anything in there, like those bonkers flat tax or vat only systems you sometimes see libertarian types going on about. I don't think those examples would be any good but at least there would be ambition to really do something about the current system. Instead you've got the blandest bunch of policies imaginable.
Much as people may dislike MPs like Gove or Osborne, the Cameron govt really had some actual reformers. Now all that's left are a bunch of career politicians who don't have two new ideas to rub together
Much as people may dislike MPs like Gove or Osborne, the Cameron govt really had some actual reformers. Now all that's left are a bunch of career politicians who don't have two new ideas to rub together
Huw_Dawson
Member
Took a look at the latest Yougov poll and I think what has been seen is basically what I expected, which was that there has been a small shift from don't know Labour voters back to saying they'll vote Labour. Whereas the LDs are still sitting on a somewhat wobbly voter base. This would indicate to me that the LDs being less visible this campaign has made voters less sure about them.
It will be interesting to see if the LD manifesto launch solidifies the current voter base, extends the voter base whilst making it more wobbly (an anti-Brexit coalition?) or does nothing.
It will be interesting to see if the LD manifesto launch solidifies the current voter base, extends the voter base whilst making it more wobbly (an anti-Brexit coalition?) or does nothing.
Not to dampen your optimism, but does nothing seems most likely
Theonik
Member
The Kantai Collection of politics.
I don't know whether the British version of separation of church and state is different from the American one, but I don't think it means to ban religious people from politics. It means to separate your personal religious views from your responsibilities as a public servant.
So Farron seems like the perfect example of the separation of church and state, considering he doesn't vote on LGBT issues like gay sex is a sin that is in need of punishment.
People show their true colours when they are winning
Our religious people tend to not be all out religious. Blair, Cameron etc all identified or were pretty much known as religious but were very pro lgbt.
She's another idiot that enriches herself via outrage. Ignore her.
FlammableD
Banned
The hiring fee is for the employer AFAIK.
Huw_Dawson
Member
I'm leaning that way, but it does depend on how involved voters are this year. How many people are reading manifestoes or following the news?
I'm struggling to think of a time in my life where politics in England was more hostile for a third party - newspapers extremely close to the government, a Labour circus that occupies much of the media's attention and a low base to work off. It seems like the strategy of the big two parties is to suffocate the LDs and by-and-large it has been successful so far.
Thus we come to the Leader's Debate tonight and a suite of TV next week.
And the final big question: turnout.
Kotetsu534
Member
Fraser Nelson nailed it by saying May should apologise to Ed Miliband for poaching half his manifesto. That said, her manifesto makes very clear that she's pulling away from the small-state libertarian right end of the Tory party, blasting in bold capital letters about "the good government can do" and lamenting the effects of "untrammelled free markets". She's also pointedly refused to rule out tax rises on higher earners. It's a clear step towards a kind of One-Nation Conservatism (maybe not my kind of One-Nation politics, but certainly a kind). If she does end up with the best general election result of any leader since Harold Macmillan (49.7%, 1959), something to keep in mind.
Sonic series, including the Sonic cycle.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I think this is deliberate - in the knowledge that it may, in the context of whatever the (presumably horrific) consequences of Brexit are, be difficult to sustain any sort of big reforming agenda at the same time.
That's a reality which the Labour manifesto (much as I like some of it) fails to pay heed to.
I understand that Americans tend to be more religious than Europeans, but that's not really relevant to my interpretation of separation.
D
Deleted member 231381
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I think in the long-run, the rise of the SNP in Scotland could be incredibly damaging. Half of the reason NI does so poorly is because the DUP can literally become involved in a scandal costing millions of pounds and still get an increased share of the vote because fuck Catholics. Most of politics is negotiable and nuanced - you can increase spending a lot, in part, very little, not at all, cut it slightly, cut it a lot, etc. But the independence issue is binary. Scotland can't be a little bit independent. And if that becomes the primary motivation for voting, all incentive for good governance flies out the window because you're either a good guy on the issue or a bad guy.
I genuinely think the recovery of Scottish Labour is one of the most important things for determining the UK's general direction. It puts to bed the scary notion of Sturgeon running the UK government for English voters, would create the media narrative that Labour is on the up, restore a hotbed of genuine political talent for Labour that was a huge source of their intellectual prowess, reduce the London-centric party personnel. It's to the point that I struggle to recognise SNP voters (jn Westminster elections, at least - no problem for Holyrood) as meaningfully leftwing, only nationalist, at the point that they're de facto enabling the Conservatives.
It is because of the way the voting public has been used to seeing religious politicans act everywhere but N.I. Logically you're right but that's the way it is here.
It's not fair or right the way Farrons beliefs have been scrutinised imo. He's a decent guy.
Scottish Labour is done for a while yet. There is no one to lead the party, Kez is a damp squib. After getting hammered in council elections the survivors are more interested in saving their cushy jobs than restoring the Labour Party; power sharing with the Tories in Aberdeen and potentially North Lanarkshire to under the guise of keeping the SNP Out but really to keep themselves in. They are shameless.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I agree, but it's a catch-22, right? Scottish Labour as an institution is fucked. All of the senior people are utterly uninspiring, it's a haggard and decrepit body with too much of yesterday's men. The only solution for that is for new blood to join the party. But new blood don't want to join the party, because of all of the yesterday's men. Someone needs to break the cycle, and I think that if you are a genuinely left-minded person in today's Scotland, well, why not be that person? Tying together the left and independence is destroying the former and has stalled at the latter.
Tories scrap estate tax to keep their rich pals happy but will come after the "mainstream" pensioners who own their home.
Introducing Voter ID to suppress turnout at future elections
And obviously the whole manifesto has no figures because the Tories can be trusted to double the National Debt. Again.
The £2,000 per annum 'skills charge' is paid by employers and the £1,000 per annum 'international health surcharge' by individuals.
The IHS has to be paid when you apply for a visa, which'll increase the upfront costs of a spouse visa to around £5,000-6,000 for a non priority application (3-5 month turnaround) and an additional £600 on top for a priority application (1-2 month turnaround).
I remember in 2010 after the first snp admin we went heavily labour. I can't decide if that was because we were being canny or just reverting to type.
I'm hopeful that Scot Lab eventually get their act in order, they are attaking snp from the left which I think is the best way to go. They aren't getting much mileage thanks to the lingering Indy poll blowback but eventually they'll get through.
It'll take a while but it'll get through. SNP are just going to be slowing losing seats but being the largest party for the foreseeable future. Findlay the current deputy iirc would be a good scot lab leader​. I voted for him in the leadership elections, before they remembered I hadn't paid dues in 2 years lol
Scottish Labour need to get back in line with the UK party. This balkanisation has ruined them as a functioning political group. They can't even explain how they support the SDLP who want self determination in Ireland but won't support the same thing for Scotland.
Dugdale just invents policies to counter the SNP with no real thought about how it affects the party's wider standing. Take the last Scottish budget, Labour just came up with 1p increase on all income tax bands. It wasn't in a manifesto or decided at General Meeting, Kez just came up with it (nicked it from joke party Scottish Lib Dems).
So now the Labour manifesto comes out and Corbyn says the working class pay enough already in income tax. Now the Scottish party is at odds with the UK Party. And it happens on a whole load of other issues too like Trident.
Nah that's UKIP
Only way that comes around is if the UK party looks on the rise.
Plus then they're open to the branch office argument, not that it doesn't get used against them anyway. But yeah
Huw_Dawson
Member
I mean, Labour decided to announce mass nationalisation without coatings and the Tories decided to rob pensioners to plug their own shortfall in care. Free fidget spinners wouldn't be as bonkers as what the big two are offering.
The LD manifesto went down pretty well, I'd say. It's important to produce a manifesto even if you don't think you will win. It tells voters what you stand for, what you will argue for in parliament, and also how your peers will vote - a big issue for the LDs who hold the balance of power in the Lords.
But at the end of the day we live in a democracy. Each voter should be free to cast their vote how they wish, and a manifestoes as a group are a great guide on deciding. Should Labour not bother to produce a manifesto because they are so far behind in the polls?
Ugh, that sucks so much, especially if its payable by all EU people who are already living here. That's a lot of money for someone who isn't on a high wage.
International Health Surcharge is going up from £200 to £600, not £1,000 as that Twitter account suggested.
From the manifesto.
So not as bad as initially thought, but still shit.
The wording says 'non EU' in the manifesto, though it'll likely include EU folks post Brexit.
From the manifesto.
So not as bad as initially thought, but still shit.
The wording says 'non EU' in the manifesto, though it'll likely include EU folks post Brexit.
The answer to the Branch Office issue is saying the Labour Party in Scotland is at the heart of UK Labour's policy making and gives Scotland a strong voice in the UK. Not running away from it and lashing out with ill-thought out differentiated policies.
Audioboxer
Member
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...snt-need-explain-how-itll-pay-nationalisation
Combined with, from 2013 when East Coast was still publicly owned:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...l-line-returns-209m-to-taxpayers-8866157.html
People stopped buying that argument when McConnell was in charge, partly because scot lab road tested possibly contentious UK lab policies here.
The argument we were the centre lost when it made most sense (Brown).
you barely got any coverage. it was inexplicably launched in the evening at a press conference after the 6pm news, and two hours later everyone was talking about the initial briefings from the tory manifesto which continued through to their launch today where the lib dems have been completely forgotten.
it's disappointing that the incompetence of the lib dem election campaign is once again preventing them from providing real opposition to the government and exposing how economically calamatious may's immigration plans are. it's letting down millions of moderate voters who desperately need a voice
Huw_Dawson
Member
You realise that the LDs actually specified how much infrastructure spending they'd do -
it is down on their costings sheet - when Labour's basically gone 'well it'll be lots but it's not technically borrowing so it's fine."
Never mind that Labour's numbers on their top 5% only tax increases do not add up.
It is a whopping great pile of tax and expense, delivered right on top of an economy that is going to be struggling to cope with a hard Brexit.
And that's bonkers, to me.
@Empty, the manifesto was launched at noon yesterday. The evening event was a rally. It was actually good politics - a launch followed by a speech so there were two Lib Dem things to talk about. What would have happened with a speech and manifesto as one would have been a couple of extra shots of Farron giving a speech, followed by the 6 and 10pm news being filled with Labour/Tory chatter.
Labour are CK2, lots of intrigue, plotting, seduction of your council.
Tories are EU4, the glory days when English foreign policy was war with Scotland and France, along with colonising the world through the cunning use of flags.
UKIP are HOI4, big fans of alternate history, but not that good in the air.
Lib Dems are Vicky3, long awaited to lead us into a glorious future, but somehow never quite arriving.
Bravo.
Investment is exactly what the economy will require when its in the toilet
Me too! I was thinking "similar to but smaller than Labour Dark Souls and a lot less popular" 
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