He's my MP, but I haven't a scooby.
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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He's my MP, but I haven't a scooby.
Ah, fair enough! I highly recommend getting up early and doing it then anyway, if that is even remotely possible with people's daily routines.
He gave an interview to the Express (vomits) this morning:
https://www.expressandstar.com/news...byn-ridiculous-for-exploiting-terror-attacks/
edit: sorry, that's not the express, it's a local paper
show me your skeleton
Member
the prime minister didn't bother to turn up to the leaders' debate.
Yeah and the entire country rightfully slagged her off for it for about a week after. You can't pretend that it was swept under the rug.
JonathanEx
Member
Got the day off, so going down at 7:30am ish, then walk into town for a leisurely breakfast somewhere and do some shopping.
PJV3
Member
I'm not really disagreeing with you either like, if she indeed has a booze problem then she is actually sick, I understand not everyone with a camera phone is aware of the rumours about her.
These are quite literally the best thing about any general elections.
I'm unconvinced too, but I don't agree with the latter. The bounce for Corbyn has come from a mix of LD, Green, SNP and UKIP votes, as well as a small number of Tory votes.
It's more due to the left rallying around someone instead of it being too much of a Tory cock up (although it has).
Huw_Dawson
Member
Nick Clegg delivers a speech attacking the cheap sloganeering of the two big parties. He list statistics and major problems the government has yet to tackle.
Boris Johnson comes up on a stage in County Durham. He says "take back control!"
Public opinion is going to be a sight to behold once we leave the EU.
Boris Johnson comes up on a stage in County Durham. He says "take back control!"
Public opinion is going to be a sight to behold once we leave the EU.
True but a vote for him would mean Keir Starmer would be potentially heading up Brexit talks as opposed to David Davis. That alone makes me want to ramble to anyone who will listen to vote Labour.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Humour me for a moment here, Huw. Yes, we know you're in the LD party but this is a genuine question.
Knowing that literally anyone bar UKIP/Con would be better for this country, if you were at the polling station on Thursday and you knew that it was a close race between Labour and Conservatives with Lib Dem not having any chance of a win - what would you do?
Would you hold your nose and tactically vote? I know in my area the best chance to remove a Tory is voting LD so that's where I'll be going, but I want an idea of what that means to someone in the party.
The Rain King
Member
Huw_Dawson
Member
I will be voting Liberal Democrat in Edmonton on Thursday.
I refuse to vote for any party not committed to electoral reform, and I refuse to vote for any party that is committed to leaving the Single Market.
From my perspective, I believe Labour and the Conservatives are equally bad for this country.
The Rain King
Member
(Today, 11:36 AM)
If anyone would be in a position to help...
WadiumArcadium
Member
Where's the Sun King when you need him?
Wait, wait, wait - Huw_Dawson likes the Lib Dems? This election just got turned on its head.
Spuck-uk
Banned
https://twitter.com/mrjammyjamjar3/status/871829837262061568
Absolute pro-click right here, talking about the role of the media in UK extremism. Opened my eyes.
Absolute pro-click right here, talking about the role of the media in UK extremism. Opened my eyes.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Funnily enough, people don't trust Clegg.
Boris should, of course, be converted to biofuel, the horrible, racist shite with his bumbling act and genuine gigantic incompetence.
Huw_Dawson
Member
I mean the guy did ask.
In the case of a "would you tactically vote" question - no, unless the person asking for a "tactical" vote is actually pledging to fix the need for tactical votes. Clear?
Spuck - whatever you think of Clegg in the coalition, he's worked in EU trade negotiation and as an MEP, and he had five years of experience at the heart of government.
No you don't, don't tell porkies
Spuck-uk
Banned
I'm more slightly disappointed that he'd equally have the tories royally fucking everyone as opposed to Labour trying to save public services tbh.
Spuck-uk
Banned
It's not about what I think, I think his politics and the Orange book dems in general have terrible neoliberal policies. Farron is a far better person in almost every way.
But all the general public will remember him for is betrayal.
I'd genuinely love actual proportional representation but it's such a pipe dream at this stage that I wouldn't throw away my vote over it (as much as I can avoid throwing my vote away in a Tory safe seat).
Speaking of Clegg, I still resent him over the AV referendum. What a fucking waste that thing was.
What a comfortable place that must be, how fortunate for you.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
It's the same as the Hillary vote issues. "I don't like her so I'll protest vote even though it means the Republicans are more likely to gain a vote"
A fractured vote against a behemoth of hate does nothing.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Yes I do.
I think Labour would cause us cataclysmic economic harm by ripping us out of the Single Market and then raising taxes. I think their government would be disunified and ineffective. I don't think there has been any real evidence of economic competence displayed by Labour, especially as their "fully costed" manifesto was viewed with severe scepticism by the IFS.
I think the Conservatives risk economic cataclysm via leaving the Single Market, and they've got their eyes on smashing the welfare state.
Labour have their heart in the right place, the Tories have their economics at least plausible. Neither of them has any answers to the massive questions of Britain's democracy, its regions, its place in the world or the future. They are both regressive, backwards-looking parties that want to find solace in reheating the battles of the 70's and 80's.
They are as bad as each other.
Come on.
Spuck-uk
Banned
The voting system isn't going to change for a generation (even though I believe it massively needs reform, and voted for AV), because we already held that referendum.
You don't get to keep retaking those things until you get the result you want. Sometimes people are going to vote for stupid shit like Brexit, it's the responsibility of people who care to try and educate.
From my experience a lib demo voter is generally a step away from becoming a tory voter.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
What does a vote for the LD accomplish in this scenario? Literally nothing on the national stage. Meanwhile, the Conservatives coast back into power and wipe out the party by the next GE.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Contributes towards short money.
Labour and the Conservatives are as bad as each other.
I mean, you don't have to take my word for it - http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...rs-no-alternative-to-the-tories-a7770831.html
PJV3
Member
Yeah, the chump didn't even get the Tories to play nice over a referendum for an option he didn't want.
I think it went rapidly downhill with that decision, Cameron and Osborne did Clegg like a kipper.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Do I have to post that video about the disabled woman again?
Because that was the tories doing, and it's only going to get worse.
Ah yes, sourced from their uncosted manifesto. Lovely.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Interesting use of language there...
Labour will rip us out of the single market whereas the Tories will simply leave in a polite fashion and not cause any waves.
Come on.
Labour will rip us out of the single market whereas the Tories will simply leave in a polite fashion and not cause any waves.
Come on.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
In your opinion, yes (I guess that's all that matters on the individual level) but think about how the LDs are going to be marginalised and crushed by a more entrenched Tory government. Do you really expect the party to prosper under a "this deal is bad so we don't take it and whoops the country is fucked" situation?
Huw_Dawson
Member
They're perfectly honest in how they literally do not care and will drive taxes through the floor.
Labour put out a manifesto with costings that didn't stand up to IFS scrutiny. I'll admit it's better than no costings.
And SlipperyFishes, giving up on what you believe is right because "oh well it's the big two, nothing to do about that ha ha ha" is how we've had decades and decades of ineffective government.
It has to end, some day. You don't do that by giving up, you do that by fighting on.
You lot all seem to think I am saying that Labour are worse than the Tories. I don't think that - I think they are just as bad, but in different ways. And on the core issues - our democracy, our stance in Europe - they are identical.
Spuck-uk
Banned
You're quoting the IFS like it's gospel, because it fits your rhetoric.
So here's a list of economists that support it, in counterpoint:
Dr Adotey Bing-Pappoe, lecturer in economics, Alan Freeman (personal capacity), Alfredo Saad Filho, Professor of Political Economy, SOAS University of London, Andrew Cumbers, Professor of Regional Political Economy, University of Glasgow, Andrew Simms, author of The New Economics, co-director New Weather Institute, Andy Ross FAcSS, Visiting Professor, Birkbeck University of London , Andy Kilmister, Department of Accounting, Finance and Economics, Oxford Brookes University, Ann Pettifor, Director of PRIME Economics (Policy Research in Macroeconomics), Dr Antonio Andreoni (PhD Cambridge), Senior Lecturer in Economics, SOAS University of London, Anwar Shaikh, Professor, New School for Social Research, USA, Arturo Hermann, Senior research fellow, Italian National Institute of Statistics, Rome, Italy, Professor Ben Fine, Department of Economics, SOAS University of London, Robert Rowthorn, Emeritus Professor of Economics, University of Cambridge., Bruce Cronin, Professor of Economic Sociology, Director of Research, Director of the Centre for Business Network Analysis, University of Greenwich, Dr Bruno Bonizzi, Lecturer in Political Economy, University of Winchester, Carlos Oya, Reader in Development Studies, SOAS University of London, Carolina Alves, PhD Economics, Carolyn Jones, Director, Institute of Employment Rights, Cem Oyvat, Lecturer, University of Greenwich, Christopher Cramer, Professor of the Political Economy of Development, SOAS University of London, Ciaran Driver FAcSS, Professor of Economics, SOAS University of London, Professor Colin Haslam, Professor of Accounting and Finance, Queen Mary University of London, Costas Lapavitsas, Professor of Economics, SOAS University of London, Cyrus Bina, Distinguished Research Professor of Economics, University of Minnesota, USA, Dr Dan O'Neill, Lecturer in Ecological Economics, University of Leeds, Daniela Gabor, Professor of Economics and Macro-Finance, University of the West of England, Daniele Archibugi, Professor, Birkbeck College, Professor Danny Dorling, University of Oxford, Writer and Academic, Dean Baker, Co-Director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, Washington, DC, Dr Deborah Johnston Pro-Director (Learning and Teaching) SOAS (University of London), Diego Sánchez-Ancochea, Associate Professor in Political Economy, Director, Latin American Centre, University of Oxford, Dr Dimitris P. Sotiropoulos, The Open University Business School, Elisa Van Waeyenberge, Lecturer of Economics, SOAS University of London, Dr Emanuele Lobina, Public Services International Research Unit, University of Greenwich, Dr Faiza Shaheen, Economist (in a personal capacity), Frances Stewart, Professor of Development Economics and Director, Centre for Research on Inequality, Human Security and Ethnicity, University of Oxford, Gary Dymski, Professor of Applied Economics, Leeds University Business School, Geoff Harcourt, Honorary Professor, UNSW Australia, Gerald Epstein, Co-Director, Political Economy Research Institute, and Department of Economics, University of Massachusetts Amherst, USA, Dr Giorgos Galanis, Lecturer in Economics, Goldsmiths University, Gregor Semieniuk, Lecturer in Economics, SOAS University of London, Guglielmo Forges Davanzati, Associate professor of Political Economy, University of Salento, Italy, Dr Guy Standing FAcSS, Professorial Research Associate, SOAS University of London, Ha-Joon Chang, University of Cambridge, Hannah Bargawi, Lecturer in Economics, SOAS University of London, and Research Partner, Centre for Development Policy and Research, Dr Hassan Hakimian, Reader in Economics, SOAS University of London, Professor Dr Heiner Flassbeck, former Chief Economist of UNCTAD, Geneva, Heikki Patomäki, Professor of World Politics, University of Helsinki, Howard M. Wachtel, Professor Emeritus of Economics, American University, Washington, DC, USA, Howard Reed, Director, Landman Economics, Dr Hugh Goodacre, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Westminster, Teaching Fellow, University College London, Hugo Radice, University of Leeds., Hulya Dagdeviren, Professor of Economic Development, University of Hertfordshire, Ilhan Dögüs, Department of Socioeconomics, University of Hamburg, Germany, James K. Galbraith, Professor of Government, University of Texas, USA, Jan Toporowski, Professor of Economics and Finance, SOAS University of London, Dr Jane Lethbridge, Public Services International Research Unit, University of Greenwich, Jeanette Findlay, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Glasglow, Jeff Faux, Founder & former Director, Economic Policy Institute, Washington D C, Dr Jeff Powell, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Greenwich, Dr Jeff Tan, Economist, Aga Khan University in the UK, Jeremy Smith, co-director, PRIME Economics (Policy Research in Macroeconomics), Dr Jo Michell, Senior Lecturer in Economics, UWE Bristol, Professor John Grahl, Economics Department, Middlesex University, John Palmer, former Political Director of the European Policy Centre, Dr Johnna Montgomerie, Senior Lecturer in Economics, Deputy Director of the Political Economy Research Centre, Goldsmiths University of London, Jonathan Dawson, Coordinator of Economics, Schumacher College, Professor Jonathan Michie, Professor of Innovation & Knowledge Exchange, University of Oxford , Dr Jonathan Perraton, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Sheffield, Jorge Buzaglo, Associate Professor of Economics, University of Stockholm, Sweden, Dr Julian Wells, Principal Lecturer of Economics, Kingston University, Kate Bayliss, Research Fellow, Economics Department, SOAS University of London, Professor Kate Pickett, University of York Champion for Research on Justice & Equality, Dr Kevin Deane, Senior Lecturer in International Development, University of Northampton (personal capacty), Dr Kitty Stewart, Associate Professor of Social Policy, London School of Economics and Political Science, Klaus Nielsen, Professor of Institutional Economics, Birkbeck University of London, László Andor, Associate Professor, Corvinus University, Hungary, Leslie Huckfield, Yunus Centre for Social Business & Health, Glasgow Caledonian University, Malcolm Sawyer, Emeritus Professor of Economics, University of Leeds, Marco Veronese Passarella, Economics Division, Leeds University Business School, Maria Nikolaidi, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Greenwich, Dr Mario Seccareccia, Full Professor, Department of Economics, University of Ottawa, Canada, Dr Martin Watts, Emeritus Professor of Economics, The University of Newcastle, Massoud Karshenas, Professor of Economics, SOAS University of London, Dr Matteo Rizzo, Senior Lecturer, Department of Economics, SOAS University of London, Mehmet Ugur, Professor of Economics and Institutions, University of Greenwich Business School, Michael Roberts, financial economist and author of The Long Depression, Professor Mushtaq Khan, Department of Economics, SOAS, University of London, Professor Ozlem Onaran, Director of Greenwich Political Economy Research Centre, University of Greenwich, Pallavi Roy, Lecturer in International Economics, SOAS, University of London, Paulo dos Santos, Assistant Professor of Economic, New School for Social Research, USA, Paul Mason, economics writer, Prem Sikka, Emeritus Professor of Accounting, University of Essex, Dr Pritam Singh, Professor of Economics, Oxford Brookes University, Radhika Desai, Professor, Department of Political Studies, University of Manitoba, USA, Richard McIntyre, Professor, Chair, Department of Economics, University of Rhode Island, USA, Richard Murphy, Professor of Practice in International Political Economy at City University of London and Director of Tax Research LLP, Richard Parker, Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, USA, Richard Wilkinson, Emeritus Professor of Social Epidemiology, University of Nottingham, Dr Robert Calvert Jump, Lecturer in Economics, Kingston University, Robert Neild, Professor Emeritus of Economics, University of Cambridge, Robert Pollin, Distinguished Professor of Economics and Co-Director, Political Economy Research Institute, University of Massachusetts Amherst, USA, Roberto Veneziani, Queen Mary University of London, Susan Himmelweit, Emeritus Professor of Economics, Open University, Dr Sara Gorgoni, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Greenwich, Dr Sara Maioli, Lecturer in Economics, Newcastle University, Dr Satoshi Miyamura, Lecturer in the Economy of Japan, SOAS University of London, Shawky Arif, The University of Northampton, Simon Wren-Lewis, Professor of Economic Policy, Oxford University, Professor Steve Keen, Department of Economics, Kingston University, Professor Engelbert Stockhammer, Kingston University, Simon Mohun, Emeritus Professor of Political Economy, Queen Mary University of London, Dr Sunil Mitra Kumar, Lecturer in Economics, King's College London, Susan Newman, Senior Lecturer of Economics, University of West England, Dr Susan Pashkoff, Economist, Dr Suzanne J Konzelmann, Director, Postgraduate Programmes in Corporate Governance and Business Ethics, Director, London Centre for Corporate Governance and Ethics, Co-Executive Editor, Cambridge Journal of Economics, Tom Palley, Former Chief Economist, US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, Tomás Rotta, Lecturer in Economics, University of Greenwich, Trevor Evans, Emeritus Professor of Economics, Berlin School of Economics and Law, Germany, Will Davies, Reader in Political Economy, Goldsmiths, University of London, Dr William Van Lear, Economics Professor, Belmont Abbey College, USA, Yanis Varoufakis, Former Minister of Finance, Greece, Yannis Dafermos, Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of the West of England, José Gabriel Palma, University of Cambridge, Yulia Yurchenko, University of Greenwhich, Laurie Macfarlane, Economics Editor, Open Democracy, Meghnad Desai, London School of Economics, Clive Lawson, University of Cambridge, Professor Lawrence King, University of Cambridge
Certainly seems to be the way Huw is swinging.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
That is not what I am saying. I am saying that I believe that this country and its disparate parties are better served to make change in a future with a Labour government. You will get more concessions from Corbyn than you would with May or her eventual successors - Michael Gove or Boris Johnson (a nuclear winter in his case)
Huw_Dawson
Member
Yes, obviously. Which is why the LD manifesto was largely greenlit by them, despite that having a similarly progressive taxation pledge in it.
And SlipperyFishes, no I won't.
Remember Tony Blair promising a fairer democracy in 1997? And I think I also remember politicians on both sides talking about how idiotic Brexit was.
I also remember the AV referendum. Remember Labour's cast-iron support for fairer voting laws?
But suddenly as soon as there's evidence that public opinion has shifted, they turn like a weathervane.
If you believe in something, you should write it on a leaflet and put it through a letter box. You should never give up the fight for what you believe in because the big two have rigged the system so it's Kang or Kodos.
CharmingCharlie
Member
No surprise there when you consider the Liberal Democrats were quite happy to jump into bed with the Tories the minute they were given a whiff of power.
Damn. There's showing the receipts, and then there's really showing the receipts.
Its both. Cobryn wouldn't be doing this well vs Cameron, or if there hadn't been 2 terrorist attacks during the campaign.
But equally, this Labour manifesto is really good, and stands up on its own merits.
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