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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding

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Meadows

Banned
I'm managing the spreadsheet, just adding everyone's on as they post in this thread or PM me.

Also, looking for a number rather than a % for margin of victory by votes. Cheers! The Portillo Award goes to the most famous / prominent MP to lose their seat. In 2015 that would probably be Ed Balls(though Vince Cable and Charles Kennedy run him close). Named after Michael Portillo, who was unseated in 1997.

Ah OK, in that case:

Labour wipe-out in Scotland? No
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland? No
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales?* No
The Portillo award goes to..? Angus Robertson
First resignation of the night? Diane Abbott
How many party leaders will resign? 1 (Caroline Lucas)
Seat for Nuttall? No
Margin of victory by seats: As per the above predictions
Margin of victory by votes: 2,000,000
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
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Pretty much what will happen on election day. Hope is a lie and all that.

Because of our terrible FPTP system overall vote % is worth precisely shit all.

What's their track record?

This is depressing. :(
 
I'm a pessimist, but I believe in data, and Survation got it right in 2015, and they're showing it tighter than YouGov, and YouGov have got that fancy modelling thing, so:



Seat predictions
Conservative Party seats: 326
Green Party seats: 1
Labour Party seats: 244
Liberal Democrats seats: 10
Plaid Cymru seats: 2
Scottish National Party seats: 48
UK Independence Party seats: 0
Independently held seats: 1
Seats held by other parties: 18

Bonus predictions
Labour wipe-out in Scotland? No
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland? No
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales? No
The Portillo Award goes to ... ? Nick Clegg
First resignation of the night? Paul Nuttall
How many party leaders will resign? 2 (This sort of depends on the window. 2 on the night, possibly 4 by the next week)
Seat for Nuttall? No
Margin of victory over second-placed party by seats? 82
Margin of victory over second-placed party by votes? 900,000


I'd be over the moon with a hung parliament, happy with anything better than the 2015 result, and accepting of a Tory gain of less than 20 seats. Anything less than a 100+ seat Tory majority is honestly a pleasant surprise considering where this campaign started.

Added, but you've got one MP too many!
 

Spuck-uk

Banned
Speaking of premature, eternally optimistic events - The Brickworks and GBar in Liverpool are having Corbyn Victory Rave events (or more likely - General Election Commiseration Piss-ups)

https://www.facebook.com/events/1320863221330788

I know it's unlikely, but in the supremely unlikely event that he somehow becomes our next Prime Minister - you can't deny there would be scenes on the streets.
Gosh!

Well I know what I'm doing, win or lose should be a laugh
 
Yes, yes it should.

Nope it shouldn't be mandatory to vote. If people are not interested in voting then they are not interested in voting just FORCING them to vote won't make any difference. All that will happen is they will turn out and just stick an x on any of the candidates and piss off again, how is that more meaningful than than them not turning up to vote ?

Seriously I do not get the hard on in this country to force people to do shit they do not want to do. If they don't want to vote then leave them be. I am all for encouraging people to turn up and vote and making the voting system more accessible and actually giving people something worth voting for. But no mandatory voting is the wrong way to go.
 
Our generation doesn't give a damn, such a disgrace. Putting up with 5 years of being screwed over just so you don't have to take a few minutes out of your day. No, people should be forced to vote, I agree. £200 fine if you don't turn up. Country might be a better place then. Of course, a better voting system would help far more.
 

hodgy100

Member
Wonderful, how's this for you?

UKIP: 377
Conservative: 255
Others (DUP + Sinn Féin): 18
Independent: 0 (UKIP are standing in John Bercow's seat)

Sound about right?

Not sure whether the UK would be more fucked for having Sinn Féin winning all NI seats, SNP willing all Scottish seats and Plaid Cymru winning all Welsh seats, mind.

EDIT: Fuck it, new predictions for your uber-fucked UK:
Con: 198
Green: 0
Lab: 0
LD: 0
Plaid: 40
SNP: 59
UKIP: 335
Ind: 0
Others (Sinn Féin): 18
I guess it could always be worse :p

Eh my optimistic guess would be.

Seat predictions
Conservative Party seats: 340
Green Party seats: 1
Labour Party seats: 240
Liberal Democrats seats: 12
Plaid Cymru seats: 3
Scottish National Party seats: 42
UK Independence Party seats: 0
Independently held seats: 2
Seats held by other parties: 10

Bonus predictions

Labour wipe-out in Scotland? No
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland? No
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales? No
The Portillo Award goes to ... ? Nick Clegg
First resignation of the night? Paul Nuttall
How many party leaders will resign? 2
Seat for Nuttall? No
Margin of victory over second-placed party by seats? 100
Margin of victory over second-placed party by votes? ~2,000,000
 

jem0208

Member
The BBC copied and pasted a picture of Jeremy Corbyn into a picture of Bin Ladin there is no "think" about it. The BBC are nothing but a propaganda arm of the government.
They also held a major debate where the live audience was clearly biased towards the left.

Again, those who are left wing perceive them as right leaning, those who are right wing perceive them as left leaning.

That shows they're actually doing a pretty decent job imo.
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
I'm hearing Abbot just stumbled on a Sky News interview.

That was yesterday. Try and watch it if you can because the presenter was trying super hard to make her look stupid and for once I thought she actually did okay, not nearly as bad as it could've been she just ducked most of the questions instead of trying to bullshit her way out of a corner. Obviously that doesn't matter and it's being billed as a "car crash" again which is really her own fault for being stupid enough to believe anyone would invite her on a show and not have it be a total stitch up at this point. They know she's a weak link with the public which is why May criticises her more than Corbyn now (also she's black which let's be honest is a factor. the dog whistles are getting louder.)
 
I guess it could always be worse :p

eh my optimistic guess would be.

CON: 340
Lab: 240
SNP: 45
Others: 25

Fancy going the whole hog? Could be a prize in it... or just UK PoliGAF bragging rights.

Format:

Seat predictions
Conservative Party seats:
Green Party seats:
Labour Party seats:
Liberal Democrats seats:
Plaid Cymru seats:
Scottish National Party seats:
UK Independence Party seats:
Independently held seats:
Seats held by other parties:

Bonus predictions
Labour wipe-out in Scotland?
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland?
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales?
The Portillo Award goes to ... ?
First resignation of the night?
How many party leaders will resign?
Seat for Nuttall?
Margin of victory over second-placed party by seats?
Margin of victory over second-placed party by votes?

Scoring
Scoring works as follows: 200 points for correct seat allocation, 1 point removed for incorrect distribution. 10 points per correct bonus question. For margin of victory by seats, 50 points for a perfect answer, lose 1 point per seat away from that perfect answer that you were. For margin of victory by votes, 20 points for a perfect answer (rounded to 100,000), lose one point per 100,000 that you were away from thay perfect answer. Margins will be between party with most seats / votes and the party with the second most seats / votes. Portillo award winner will be decided on the night.

Where can I see others' predictions?
Quote to reveal.


Prize
Probably something fizzy and alcoholic. Useful for celebration / consolation.

Deadline for submissions / alterations
23:59, 07/06/2017.
 
Nope it shouldn't be mandatory to vote. If people are not interested in voting then they are not interested in voting just FORCING them to vote won't make any difference. All that will happen is they will turn out and just stick an x on any of the candidates and piss off again, how is that more meaningful than than them not turning up to vote ?

Seriously I do not get the hard on in this country to force people to do shit they do not want to do. If they don't want to vote then leave them be. I am all for encouraging people to turn up and vote and making the voting system more accessible and actually giving people something worth voting for. But no mandatory voting is the wrong way to go.

Yarp. Brazil has mandatory voting. Doesnt matter much, we still got 32,5% of eligible voters abstaining, voting blank or annuling their vote. Was a 10% uptick from the previous election.

Make it easier to vote and give people a genuine reason to do it and hey presto, you'll get higher attendance.

Do think that some country should take the gamble and allow voting via smartphone, just to see how it would impact youth turnout.
 

*Splinter

Member
Australia has mandatory voting right? How's it doing for them?

They also held a major debate where the live audience was clearly biased towards the left.

Again, those who are left wing perceive them as right leaning, those who are right wing perceive them as left leaning.

That shows they're actually doing a pretty decent job imo.
That audience was selected by... a polling organisation? Or something? to be representative. So unless there is an argument against how exactly they were selected I think it's untrue to call them biased towards the left (although I somewhat agree with your overall point).
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
I just watched the one from last night too. It's awful, clearly there's something wrong, I don't want to speculate as to what it is but the entire situation is just horrible.

I've seen some reasons and I think she probably wants out as much as most people seem to want her out but can't this close to an election. I don't think she'll survive after this even if Corbyn stays on (or even somehow wins)
 

Xun

Member
At least he's a decent presenter... 🤔

They also held a major debate where the live audience was clearly biased towards the left.

Again, those who are left wing perceive them as right leaning, those who are right wing perceive them as left leaning.

That shows they're actually doing a pretty decent job imo.
The BBC support whoever is in government because of the TV Licence.

The bias against Labour and especially Corbyn has even been backed up by the LSE.
 

Spuck-uk

Banned
Yarp. Brazil has mandatory voting. Doesnt matter much, we still got 32,5% of eligible voters abstaining, voting blank or annuling their vote. Was a 10% uptick from the previous election.

Make it easier to vote and give people a genuine reason to do it and hey presto, you'll get higher attendance.

Do think that some country should take the gamble and allow voting via smartphone, just to see how it would impact youth turnout.

You can already vote by post here, it really couldn't get any easier (given that the government doing anything on a web platform is a total disaster zone).
 

Meadows

Banned
I've seen some reasons and I think she probably wants out as much as most people seem to want her out but can't this close to an election. I don't think she'll survive after this even if Corbyn stays on (or even somehow wins)

Yeah for sure, I think she'll probably stand down from the shadow cabinet (or cabinet). It's for her own good and I hope she gets well soon. This is a horrible situation.
 

Theonik

Member
The BBC support whoever is in government because of the TV Licence.

The bias against Labour and especially Corbyn has even been backed up by the LSE.
It's almost like we need an independent media regulatory body 🤔
 

CCS

Banned
The below results are not what I actually expect to happen, but I'm going for the approach of high chances of victory on a low probability outcome rather than low chances of victory on a high probability outcome :p

Seat predictions
Conservative Party seats: 310
Green Party seats: 1
Labour Party seats: 265
Liberal Democrats seats: 14
Plaid Cymru seats: 3
Scottish National Party seats: 48
UK Independence Party seats: 0
Independently held seats: 1
Seats held by other parties:18

Bonus predictions
Labour wipe-out in Scotland? No
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland? Yes
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales? No
The Portillo Award goes to ... ? Amber Rudd
First resignation of the night? Theresa May
How many party leaders will resign? 2
Seat for Nuttall? No
Margin of victory over second-placed party by seats? 55
Margin of victory over second-placed party by votes? 750,000
 

sasliquid

Member
Seat predictions
Conservative Party seats: 361
Green Party seats: 1
Labour Party seats: 207
Liberal Democrats seats: 10
Plaid Cymru seats: 3
Scottish National Party seats: 50
UK Independence Party seats: 0
Independently held seats: 1
Seats held by other parties: 17

Bonus predictions
Labour wipe-out in Scotland? Yes
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland? Yes
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales? No
The Portillo Award goes to ... ? Amber Rudd
First resignation of the night? Tim Farron
How many party leaders will resign? 2
Seat for Nuttall? No
Margin of victory over second-placed party by seats? 154
Margin of victory over second-placed party by votes? 2 million
 

TheCrackInTime

Neo Member
I don't fancy making an exact seat prediction (though I do think the Tories will increase their majority), but I'll have a go at the bonus ones.

Bonus predictions
Labour wipe-out in Scotland? No.
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland? Unfortunately, yes
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales? No.
The Portillo Award goes to ... ? Amber Rudd. I have nothing to back that up, just a gut feeling.
First resignation of the night? May, if the Tories somehow lose their majority. Otherwise, I don't see any of the leaders stepping down anytime soon.
How many party leaders will resign? Same as above.
Seat for Nuttall? No.
Margin of victory over second-placed party by seats? Around 120.
Margin of victory over second-placed party by votes? Around 9-10%
 
Nope it shouldn't be mandatory to vote. If people are not interested in voting then they are not interested in voting just FORCING them to vote won't make any difference. All that will happen is they will turn out and just stick an x on any of the candidates and piss off again, how is that more meaningful than than them not turning up to vote ?

Seriously I do not get the hard on in this country to force people to do shit they do not want to do. If they don't want to vote then leave them be. I am all for encouraging people to turn up and vote and making the voting system more accessible and actually giving people something worth voting for. But no mandatory voting is the wrong way to go.

Completely agree. Textbook example of treating the symptom of apathy rather than the cause.

And predictions lol, pretty sure mine had Cons over 400. Not gonna happen!
 

WhatNXt

Member
They also held a major debate where the live audience was clearly biased towards the left.

Again, those who are left wing perceive them as right leaning, those who are right wing perceive them as left leaning.

That shows they're actually doing a pretty decent job imo.

They have done an awful job. The news at six, news-at-ten-type teams in general do a reasonable job, but occasionally - the local news teams do a better job of questioning people, and more and more - the BBC seem to be hyper inflating the egos of their editorial personalities, giving them a platform to perform for the cameras rather than actually work for us by pursuing the answers we deserve.

The "left wing" audience Johnson complained about only seemed left wing to him because 6 of the 7 politicians speaking were from left-leaning parties who came along with plenty of valid criticisms of our absentee Prime Minister. Of course it garnered audible support.

When the BBC are given the means to more closely shape the debate themselves by fielding questions from plants like the top-hat-and-tails Zero Hours contract boy, or allowing themselves to open a QT debate with an attack from a sitting Lanarkshire Tory counselor, they have been questionable. Dimbleby allowed the level of debate to descend to insane levels during the Nuclear Button questioning and Nick Robinson last night, like many BBC presenters, tried to take too much spotlight at times - attempting to make things awkward for Fallon and Sturgeon himself where the audience failed to; trying to aid the audience in achieving some kind of gotcha moment.

Laura Kussenberg and her news team were rapped over the knuckles for misrepresenting Corbyn's views on shoot to kill, and only this week they have been replaying the footage and questioning him in the context of that misrepresentation. Instead of holding government to account, and fostering a proper debate on policy, they have been enjoying generating news cycle nonsense about security, and even have their radio presenters aggressively attempting to undermine guests by catching them out on figures etc. Their news week producer asked a guest (whose entire reason for being there was a protest song about the Tories) to not be too hard on the Tories. I watched Owen Jones and a counterpart on the news recently talking about the narrowing of the polls, and the presenter became visibly uncomfortable and tried to shut down discussion when Jones tried to suggest that people had "caught on" to Theresa May. If you've got another guest there to question for the sake of balance, you don't need to moderate, play devil's advocate and shape discussion yourself, leave it to the Tory guests to defend themselves!

Channel 4, ITV and fucking News Corp affiliated Sky News have all had better coverage. Watched Adam Boulton on HIGNFY this week and - believe me - I've thought he was a total blowhard in prior elections - he has been coming across perfectly well this year.

I have very serious misgivings about giving the BBC my license fee in the future.

Edit: I'd totally forgotten about the 'impartiality' analysis done by LSE. That alone speaks for itself! Only recently, as the campaign has marched towards a close, has Corbyn (or indeed anyone else) been able to get a voice at all.
 
Not being hopeful here at all, but here's a thought experiment.

We're constantly hearing about shy Tory voters, because they're often embarrassed or scared to say who they're voting for.
What if there's also a group of shy Labour voters now? Whenever someone was pro-Corbyn in the past, they'd often be met with ridicule and arguments, what if we get a situation where the polls are under-estimating labour, due to people not wanting to admit they're voting that way.

I mean, it's very unlikely, but it's an interesting thing to think about.
 

RangerX

Banned
After this general election campaign how anyone could vote for the Tories over Labour is legitimately baffling to me. Corby is light years better than May who is shifting the Tories further to the right and seemingly can't keep her word on anything. I still think she'll win but she will only slightly increase the tiny majority she has now and her days will be numbered.
 

Meadows

Banned
Not being hopeful here at all, but here's a thought experiment.

We're constantly hearing about shy Tory voters, because they're often embarrassed or scared to say who they're voting for.
What if there's also a group of shy Labour voters now? Whenever someone was pro-Corbyn in the past, they'd often be met with ridicule and arguments, what if we get a situation where the polls are under-estimating labour, due to people not wanting to admit they're voting that way.

I mean, it's very unlikely, but it's an interesting thing to think about.

I really don't think so given how "loud" Corbyn supporters are in both debates and online. It's just like Brexit, you wouldn't see many "shy" remain voters.
 

Breakage

Member
I thought Labour were keeping Diane Abbott away from the media. The Mail's top story is about Abbott claiming to be too ill for a radio interview despite being spotted out and about. The story has attracted 11 thousand comments.
 

Meadows

Banned
I thought Labour were keeping Diane Abbott away from the media. The Mail's top story is about Abbott claiming to be too ill for a radio interview despite being spotted out and about. The story has attracted 11 thousand comments.

An absolute own goal and one that could be very harmful this close to the election. The public really don't like her, right or wrong.
 

Spuck-uk

Banned
Not being hopeful here at all, but here's a thought experiment.

We're constantly hearing about shy Tory voters, because they're often embarrassed or scared to say who they're voting for.
What if there's also a group of shy Labour voters now? Whenever someone was pro-Corbyn in the past, they'd often be met with ridicule and arguments, what if we get a situation where the polls are under-estimating labour, due to people not wanting to admit they're voting that way.

I mean, it's very unlikely, but it's an interesting thing to think about.

Hope is a lie my friend.
 
I don't understand why voting isn't mandatory with a "None of the above" option...

I dunno probably cos it is a horrible Orwellian, authoritative idea that belongs in some horrific dystopia book like 1984 .................... hm come to think of it I am surprised we haven't done it.

What about people whoms religion forbids them from voting ? I believe the Jehovah Witnesses do not take part in the voting process, should they be forced to vote when it is against their religious beliefs ? If they stand by their religion are you going to stick them in some Gulag.

Like it or not some do not want to vote, that should be up to them. The vote is only meaningful if it comes from free will. If you are forcing people to vote then the vote is meaningless.
 

Breakage

Member
An absolute own goal and one that could be very harmful this close to the election. The public really don't like her, right or wrong.
Yeah it's crazy. What on earth are they doing? I don't think I've ever seen that many comments for a single story on the Mail and that includes the recent terror attacks.
 
I don't think we need any more uninformed or pressurised voters heading to the ballot boxes.

Best case scenario, they simply draw a spunking cock and write "there r all wankers" and have a giggle.

Worst case, they just follow national trends/friends and end up delivering a massive majority for whatever is currently seen as the 'better' party.

It's fine as it is. People have a right to vote, not an obligation.
 
Not being hopeful here at all, but here's a thought experiment.

We're constantly hearing about shy Tory voters, because they're often embarrassed or scared to say who they're voting for.
What if there's also a group of shy Labour voters now? Whenever someone was pro-Corbyn in the past, they'd often be met with ridicule and arguments, what if we get a situation where the polls are under-estimating labour, due to people not wanting to admit they're voting that way.

I mean, it's very unlikely, but it's an interesting thing to think about.

This is the only bit of hope I have really, I can imagine a few typical conservative voters in conservative areas thinking Corbyn's manifesto aint half bad, but wont admit it around his tory mates.

I hope anyway, its nice to hope :'/
 

WhatNXt

Member
I thought Labour were keeping Diane Abbott away from the media. The Mail's top story is about Abbott claiming to be too ill for a radio interview despite being spotted out and about. The story has attracted 11 thousand comments.

They are. She appeared quite out of it in last night's Dominic Murnaghan interview. Compare how she is now to days gone by. Something isn't right.

I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't have any further involvement now and we later find out something more personal and embarrassing for all those attacking her was going on.
 
I really don't think so given how "loud" Corbyn supporters are in both debates and online. It's just like Brexit, you wouldn't see many "shy" remain voters.

Mostly only young people though. I'm talking people in their 40s+, blokes down the pub and middle class. The people who for the last few years have been saying to each other "He seems like a nice bloke but wouldn't vote for him".

Again, it's not something I think is happening. But I think it's interesting to see if anything like it comes up.
 
They are. She appeared quite out of it in last night's Dominic Murnaghan interview. Compare how she is now to days gone by. Something isn't right.

I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't have any further involvement now and we later find out something more personal and embarrassing for all those attacking her was going on.

if there is some sort of personal issue that is causing this, I would have obviously have sympathy for her, but not for the person who's decided to let her in front of a camera and a microphone for the last few weeks.
 
Updated my post :)

Fantastic, added - but three things:

- You've got 653 MPs, only 650 are elected!
- The Portillo Award goes to the most prominent current MP to lose their seat.
- Looking for a number of votes for 'margin of victory over second-placed party by votes', not a %.

I don't fancy making an exact seat prediction (though I do think the Tories will increase their majority), but I'll have a go at the bonus ones.

Bonus predictions
Labour wipe-out in Scotland? No.
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland? Unfortunately, yes
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales? No.
The Portillo Award goes to ... ? Amber Rudd. I have nothing to back that up, just a gut feeling.
First resignation of the night? May, if the Tories somehow lose their majority. Otherwise, I don't see any of the leaders stepping down anytime soon.
How many party leaders will resign? Same as above.
Seat for Nuttall? No.
Margin of victory over second-placed party by seats? Around 120.
Margin of victory over second-placed party by votes? Around 9-10%

Can't tempt you to make an estimate on seats? Can't win the raffle if you don't buy a ticket!

The below results are not what I actually expect to happen, but I'm going for the approach of high chances of victory on a low probability outcome rather than low chances of victory on a high probability outcome :p

Seat predictions
Conservative Party seats: 310
Green Party seats: 1
Labour Party seats: 265
Liberal Democrats seats: 14
Plaid Cymru seats: 3
Scottish National Party seats: 48
UK Independence Party seats: 0
Independently held seats: 1
Seats held by other parties:18

Bonus predictions
Labour wipe-out in Scotland? No
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland? Yes
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales? No
The Portillo Award goes to ... ? Amber Rudd
First resignation of the night? Theresa May
How many party leaders will resign? 2
Seat for Nuttall? No
Margin of victory over second-placed party by seats? 55
Margin of victory over second-placed party by votes? 750,000

Fantastic, but you've got 660 MPs instead of 650!
 
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