chromatic9
Member
I didn't say they never have to be. Point was we don't leave the WTO then reapply and wait, we remove ourselves from EU schedules, set up our own and go from there so yes we can go fall back to WTO should we need to.
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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I didn't say they never have to be. Point was we don't leave the WTO then reapply and wait, we remove ourselves from EU schedules, set up our own and go from there so yes we can go fall back to WTO should we need to.
I don't think I've ever seen it put so succinctly, but your assessment is quite accurate
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Pas vraiment. Le système FPTP signifie que les nouvelles parties ne réussissent pas. Tout au plus, ils influencent les deux parties principales avant de s'effondrer - pareil à l'UKIP.
Yes true but they say same thing back then but the liberal party collapse and labour take the Opposition
Wie bitte?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
But that was on the back of a massive, fundamental societal change. It didn't just happen out of no-where or because people were pissed at liberals. Huge numbers of people were joining unions, becoming politically active and demanding change in a way we've never seen before or since.
I don't think we can rely on a once in three hundred years event to change our political landscape - the only thing I could think of that might cause that to happen is if young people started voting like old people perhaps?
Miles Quaritch
Member
UKIP supporters on twitter this morning have given me a hearty laugh or two.
Post some examples, might as well have a laugh.
fsr I read this in Begbie from Trainspottings voice
It was never going to be that high in Manchester, who didn't even want one in the first place.
Most people I've spoken to here don't really see the point in it existing, or what power the elected mayors have, and tbh I kind of sympathise with those points of view too (despite voting in the end)
I have hope for generation z
I find it ironic that the party the brought us brexit and the people who vote for them claim a desire for quiet stability. Whatever your views on the merits of brexit, there can be no denying that it represents a major dislocation.
How old is your CELTA, finished mine back around Christmas time. Trying to leg it from here as well.
I get the don't wanna go too far and be disconnected from family, but I think it's best to look at in a sense that it's only a days travel back no matter how you go.
China is a guaranteed job I heard if you're looking for teaching job even with little/old experience.
4-5 years old at this point tbh. China is probably too far out, and I imagine Europe will be quite selective like South Korea and Japan.
CyclopsRock
Member
You what?! It's high water mark for righty'ness was about 20 years ago!
It's hard to launch the argument that the people don't know what they're voting for when it's the party that's been in government for the last 7 years.
RedSparrows
Member
This is very true, and it goes to show that not much has really changed (except the SNP).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1987
Basically, if you're a right/centre-right voter, your options are Conservatives and Conservatives. UKIP have achieved their raison d'etre and anyway, the Tories have adopted their policies and are hoovering up their voters.
If you're a centrist/centre-left/left leaning voter, you've got a lot more options.
New major political parties don't often just spring up out of nothing, they require truly massive shifts in the electorate caused by similarly huge societal events.
So I mean, Brexit is a big change, but I don't think it compares to a 700% increase in the electorate, or a couple of World Wars.
Audioboxer
Member
I think the biggest worry is tactical voting. I'm certain people who oppose independence voted SNP in the 2015 GE because that would have been largely about policy and ironically keeping the Tories out. They'd have served their Unionist purpose as "once in a lifetime vote". Now the pressing issue is worrying about independence again at the cost of sidelining policy to vote for the strongest Unionist party. Considering how badly Labour have collapsed that means... Voting Tory.
If these people exist I'd sure like to debate with them! Especially after the Brexit result up here. There really should be a further decrease of Tories and a split between SNP/Labour/Greens/Lib Dems if anything. As much as Labour are a silent leave party their approach to negotiations still wouldn't be as chaotic as the Tories.
SNP or Greens are obviously the parties to go for to show support for the EU. However, that stumbling block of Scottish independence is just too much for remain voting Tory policy disliking Scots. Crazy. They'd rather go Tory no matter what as as the Tory campaign material says in the North, it's all about indyref2.
Also, those Labour figures on the BBC News right now. Christ, the rUK is really going all in.... Says me anxiously waiting Scotland results. It's obvious for me to only way to escape the Tories is to leave the UK. Seems like the huge political debate will be convincing enough fellow Scots.
PJV3
Member
If you are a right wing maniac and want a career in politics the Tories are now the only show in town. They will have to tolerate the gay stuff for now, but they can work on bringing back the death penalty etc.
IDK, if Labour becomes an absolute shell and is sub 100 seats, I can see a future where we have the Conservatives (basically UKIP and the Tories) vs the progressive alliance (Green, LD, Labour).
These parties would avoid running against each other in seats where they have been traditionally strongest (e.g. LD would go vs Conservative in south Manchester, west London, Green would stand in Brighton, Lab would stand in northern towns) and would enter into a coalition government where they'd basically have to learn to get along. This is the only way to have this kind of arrangement, which is common in Europe, with our electoral system.
I can't see the SNP joining in with this due to their obvious main goal of Scottish independence, which is something that would be seen as toxic to most voters of LD, Lab in England and Wales. PC is more likely as support for Welsh independence is so low.
As long as Labour continues on its current path, this becomes more likely to happen.
The Tory party isn't going back on the gay stuff. They just threw out a sitting Tory mp of many years for saying something that would have been ignored even a decade ago. The core of the party's parliamentary party is onboard with this (look at the number of recantations from MPs who voted against gay marriage). Young conservatives are completely fine with gay rights and indeed support them. It's just the older base that is still anti-gay, and that volume shrinks each year.
Plus going back on gay rights wins them absolutely nothing and costs them quite a bit in terms of sub-40 voters.
Audioboxer
Member
lol rumblings on Twitter votes being nuked because numptys were putting X's on the paper. The ladies at my polling station said about 15 times do you know what to do/this is what to do.
Escape clause for Labour! Just say all their voters were putting X's and we need a do-over!
Even I agree. Unlike America our loopy Christian fundamentalists are far more tame. The "polite British way" often means keeping it to yourself what you think of relationships/sex stuff. To the extreme of me thinking sex education in our country is abysmal but that's another topic.
The open contempt that the Tories have is more aimed at the poor/sick/disabled/immigrants and as an off shoot of that the NHS because "privatisation" is a sign of wealth/prosperity and elitism. As is leaving the EU because "hi America the UK is a global bad ass with Nukes and independence!".
Escape clause for Labour! Just say all their voters were putting X's and we need a do-over!
Even I agree. Unlike America our loopy Christian fundamentalists are far more tame. The "polite British way" often means keeping it to yourself what you think of relationships/sex stuff. To the extreme of me thinking sex education in our country is abysmal but that's another topic.
The open contempt that the Tories have is more aimed at the poor/sick/disabled/immigrants and as an off shoot of that the NHS because "privatisation" is a sign of wealth/prosperity and elitism. As is leaving the EU because "hi America the UK is a global bad ass with Nukes and independence!".
RedSparrows
Member
The 'left', very generally speaking, won that battle. They have to win the economic one, though. Losing it currently, in one of the few times identity trumps economics, i.e. Brexit.
PJV3
Member
That's what I'm saying, the ambitious ultra Christian conservative doesn't have anywhere else to go now, they will have to put up with it. The grass roots of the party wasn't really on board so they won't be isolated or anything.
How can people not know this, it says right on the card. I got told not to fold it half way because machines count them.
Ravensmash
Member
Wait, mine did tell me to put an X....
My Lib Dem Councillor held her seat by just 50 votes. But county is now a strong Tory majority.
Proportionally, Lib Dems might perform worse than Labour.
Mine expressly said put an X and came pre-folded in half?
Proportionally, Lib Dems might perform worse than Labour.
Mine expressly said put an X and came pre-folded in half?
Paisley, fucking hell.
Audioboxer
Member
Rushing people not reading or listening properly.
Does your council only have 2 options or something? I guess a handful of local councils might do it differently. In mine 4 people are brought in out of 7 choices. So they were asking to number 1 to 3, preferably 1 to 4 but at least 1/2. Or 1 right through 7 was fine. I did 1 to 4, as 3 of the choices were Tories and no thanks.
PJV3
Member
I don't think I've ever heard of an election being decided by drawing straws, I almost felt sorry for the Tory.
The returning officer was then forced to decide the election by the drawing of straws, with the Liberal Democrat candidate Lesley Rickerby picking the right one to defeat Tory Daniel Carr.
This finally brought to an end a nail-biting ten-hour wait for the candidates.
Rickerby called the experience very traumatic
The returning officer was then forced to decide the election by the drawing of straws, with the Liberal Democrat candidate Lesley Rickerby picking the right one to defeat Tory Daniel Carr.
This finally brought to an end a nail-biting ten-hour wait for the candidates.
Rickerby called the experience very traumatic
MarkMclovin
Member
Yep, mine too. South Wales.
No instructions on folding the thing either. Machines don't count them here though.
Ravensmash
Member
Ah right, mine was an election for a seat on the local council between 4 people.
My paper came pre folded and it was just a case of marking (with an X) one option.
Audioboxer
Member
Yeah, no need to number if it's just one person. In areas with multiple people weighting through numbering makes sense. It's in such areas if you've put X's it will void the vote. These will be manual count areas as well.
Glasgow areas with high amounts of traditionally loyalist support will be voting Tory this time around. A Tory councillor was returned in Shettleston which is the most deprived area in the country.
The Tories have successfully made themselves the face of unionism in Scotland. The voting system means a lot of people who wouldn't vote Tory are putting them down as a lower option.
Audioboxer
Member
Yup. Instead of fighting between Labour/Conservatives for Unionists votes they are all unifying behind the Tories. Across the UK UKIP have gotten wiped out as their voters go to the Tories as well.
Even Alex Salmond is framing it as Conservatives will get gains but Scotland will be the only place they're beaten.
Still, anxious times ahead to wait and see how big the gains are.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39816044
Oh Juncker, just because Theresa says silly things doesn't mean you have to too.
I think we should lock the pair of them away in a room and let everyone else have sensible negotiations in their absence.
Oh Juncker, just because Theresa says silly things doesn't mean you have to too.
I think we should lock the pair of them away in a room and let everyone else have sensible negotiations in their absence.
If you number the tories last it counts against them. Should have went all the way to 7
No. That is terrible UI design. You don't tell people how to use an interface, you observe usage and design your interface around that.
There is a mountain of research showing that telling people what to do does jack shit.
Audioboxer
Member
Really? I thought it would still give them some "weighting". No numbering effectively means "0%"? Ah well.
The interesting stat for me is how many voted remain and are now flocking to the Tories because of indyref2. The battle of how many Unionists will choose the EU over the UK, if any.
I know a few people who hate the idea of another Independence vote and won't vote SNP, hate Labour, think Lib Dems are useless so the vote goes to the Tories. I feel that will be quite common until the full effects of Brexit come clear then they may change or not. There seems to be wait and see attitude outside the EU going around.
Carl2291
Member
The collapse of UKIP will be more felt in the GE when that 3.8 Million decide to lump on the Conservatives.
Seats where they run Labour close could potentially swing to the Tories. Seats where they run the Tories close will only give them a bigger majority.
It's not really to be celebrated by the left. It just shows the UKIP job is done.
Seats where they run Labour close could potentially swing to the Tories. Seats where they run the Tories close will only give them a bigger majority.
It's not really to be celebrated by the left. It just shows the UKIP job is done.
Juncker is an absolute clown. Useless.
Again, I think we should have voted Remain, but he is pretty symptomatic of the issues that there are in the EU. Kind of an arrogant swagger about the fact the bridge he's standing on is starting to break underneath him.
No, I'm not trying to say that the UK government is any better, but just because our side is crap doesn't mean we should pretend the EU is all roses and sunshine.
- A tepid at best growth rate (eurozone) for ten years http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/gdp-growth
- Leaving Greece in the lurch for years
- The rise of populist parties in Spain, Italy and Greece
- Brexit
- The rise of Le Pen in France
As fucking idiotic as brexit is, the EU is in trouble and as long as people like Juncker fail to see that things will get worse. Macron winning will help things though, I hope he achieves in his ambitions to reform the union.
Again, I think we should have voted Remain, but he is pretty symptomatic of the issues that there are in the EU. Kind of an arrogant swagger about the fact the bridge he's standing on is starting to break underneath him.
No, I'm not trying to say that the UK government is any better, but just because our side is crap doesn't mean we should pretend the EU is all roses and sunshine.
- A tepid at best growth rate (eurozone) for ten years http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/gdp-growth
- Leaving Greece in the lurch for years
- The rise of populist parties in Spain, Italy and Greece
- Brexit
- The rise of Le Pen in France
As fucking idiotic as brexit is, the EU is in trouble and as long as people like Juncker fail to see that things will get worse. Macron winning will help things though, I hope he achieves in his ambitions to reform the union.
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