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[Wes]

BBC, ITV and Sky are teaming up to do a massive exit poll of 10,000 people or something tomorrow.

See? Hung Parliaments can work.

 

[Walshicus]

-We need massive cuts. The reason Cameron doesn't outline them all is because it would be highly unpopular yet it is essential to rectify our massive debt.

Hmm.

-Not increasing top band of tax.

It needs to be increased. Toffs can pay.

-Raising the criminally low inheritance tax threshold.

It needs to be higher. Toffs can pay.

-Cutting corporation tax.

It needs to be higher. Big Business can pay.

-Stance on welfare.

Hmm.

All I can think is that you're either a toff yourself or a class traitor. But yeah we'll see tomorrow whether it's time for Cameruin or genuine political reform.

 

[Sage00]

I presume this is the one where they actually ask how people voted? God, I can't wait for that one. Should easily be the most accurate, especially as it will include those who only decided on the day.

Yep, but I believe the exit polls actually got it wrong in 1992 and predicted a Labour victory. I have no idea how. :lol

if they unionists get any seats, and if the numbers they get are substantial.

I think what's being suggested is a possible Tory deal with the DUP (rather than the current UUP deal they have right now). The DUP would want £200m cuts for Northern Ireland cancelled in return for coalition support of the Tories, which I'm sure Dave would easily accept for a majority government. They have 9 seats, effectively 18 during voting. Vote Cameron, get Paisley & friends with their hardline protestant beliefs such as: The Pope is the anti-christ, Gay people 'are repulsing', etc.

So yeah, say what you will. My vote is set. Hoping for a good result!

I wish you the worst of luck. All in good fun, one us is going to be very disappointed in 48 hours. :lol

 

[curls]

Read the bolded parts of what you wrote and then ask yourself an honest question. WHY do YOU think Torys are unpopular?

He is either a joke poster or a complete moron.

 

[scotcheggz]

Exactly, the Tory stance of welfare is a disgrace, pushing a system that is already DEEPLY flawed in the flexible new deal.

I know a guy who works for Maxximus, a company that is contracted to find people work on the flexible new deal and even he recognises (in private) that it is not a good system. In theory, it's great but in the real world it is just a way to massage figures to suit the government whilst screwing the people.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Just out of curiosity, what are the best reasons to vote for the Torys outside being a high-earner? I mean they would of done worst than Labour in the financial crisis, they would of went to Iraq, they're the most corrupt party. Those seem to have been the greatest issues in recent memory?

 

[brain_stew]

Just out of curiosity, what are the best reasons to vote for the Torys outside being a high-earner? I mean they would of done worst than Labour in the financial crisis, they would of went to Iraq, they're the most corrupt party. Those seem to have been the greatest issues in recent memory?

You hate the gays and want women to stay at home (but not if they aren't married of course)? Dunno, can't think of much else.

Unless you're a millionaire or close to it, you're almost certainly going to be worse off under a Tory government, if only more realised that.

 

[Empty]

Just out of curiosity, what are the best reasons to vote for the Torys outside being a high-earner? I mean they would of done worst than Labour in the financial crisis, they would of went to Iraq, they're the most corrupt party. Those seem to have been the greatest issues in recent memory?

I think this endorsement of the tories is the best argument i've seen for supporting them. Basically go for the tories if you reallt want to punish Labour for their mistakes most effectively, and if to you the most important issue facing the country is the deficit.

http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=16007299

 

[FabCam]

All I can think is that you're either a toff yourself or a class traitor. But yeah we'll see tomorrow whether it's time for Cameruin or genuine political reform.

No. I just believe that we need to encourage hard work again in this country. Many people seem to have a sense of entitlement. Want to be successful? Work in school. Get the grades you need. Go to a good university/college. Get the job and career you want. Don't expect society to help you the whole way.

It's not the "toffs" who have suffered through this past Parliament. It's families like mine. My parents aren't massive earners. My dad works his ass off to give me a good education and give me all the opportunities I need to achieve what I would like to. What are the rewards for his efforts? Massive tax. Almost half of what he earns go to the government. Under a Liberal government, he'll essentially be taxed into oblivion. Where's the incentive to work hard if over half the money you earn goes to the government.

 

[avaya]

What are the rewards for his efforts? Massive tax. Almost half of what he earns go to the government. Under a Liberal government, he'll essentially be taxed into oblivion. Where's the incentive to work hard if over half the money you earn goes to the government.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[scotcheggz]

No. I just believe that we need to encourage hard work again in this country. Many people seem to have a sense of entitlement. Want to be successful? Work in school. Get the grades you need. Go to a good university/college. Get the job and career you want. Don't expect society to help you the whole way.

It's not the "toffs" who have suffered through this past Parliament. It's families like mine. My parents aren't massive earners. My dad works his ass off to give me a good education and give me all the opportunities I need to achieve what I would like to. What are the rewards for his efforts? Massive tax. Almost half of what he earns go to the government. Under a Liberal government, he'll essentially be taxed into oblivion. Where's the incentive to work hard if over half the money you earn goes to the government.

At this point, you are obviously a joke poster.

All you need is a little bit of elbow grease and it's plain sailing guys and gals! How did we not realise this sooner!!

Edit: I'm not wishing it on you, becuase I'm not a bad person, but when you graduate from your good university and struggle to find employment (not as rare as you probably believe) and get pushed onto the wonderful tory scheme after 6 months of looking for work. After all that and you're finally shoved aside into some job stacking shelves to get you off the books, I'm sure you'll be chuffed to bits with your Tory government and solid ideology. Hard work eh, thats all it takes!

Again, I don't wish this on you AT ALL, all I'm saying is it is a very real possibilty. Stop thinking about the you now and think about society as a whole. In other words, grow up.

 

[defel]

Any citizen owes something to their society. If I were born in India or South America, would I have the same opportunities? Of course not. Paying back your society is something that should be encouraged. Its about a balance between encouraging freedom and hard work, and a healthy recognition of what society has done for you.

 

[RedShift]

No. I just believe that we need to encourage hard work again in this country. Many people seem to have a sense of entitlement. Want to be successful? Work in school. Get the grades you need. Go to a good university/college. Get the job and career you want. Don't expect society to help you the whole way.

What about the people who can't stay in Sixth Form because they need to get a job to support their family, or can't afford to go to University? Don't talk bullshit about education and getting into a University, I'm going through it and I know plenty of people who wouldn't be able to afford to be going through it if it weren't for having 'society to help you the whole way'. Either you're a joke poster or you're ridiculously sheltered and ignorant.

 

[MarshMellow96]

No. I just believe that we need to encourage hard work again in this country. Many people seem to have a sense of entitlement. Want to be successful? Work in school. Get the grades you need. Go to a good university/college. Get the job and career you want. Don't expect society to help you the whole way.

It's not the "toffs" who have suffered through this past Parliament. It's families like mine. My parents aren't massive earners. My dad works his ass off to give me a good education and give me all the opportunities I need to achieve what I would like to. What are the rewards for his efforts? Massive tax. Almost half of what he earns go to the government. Under a Liberal government, he'll essentially be taxed into oblivion. Where's the incentive to work hard if over half the money you earn goes to the government.

Not just a clever name then eh?

Someone needs to read that Indy article regarding the 'sense of entitlement'...

 

[FabCam]

At this point, you are obviously a joke poster.

All you need is a little bit of elbow grease and it's plain sailing guys and gals! How did we not realise this sooner!!

No. Not a little bit. A lot. Make stuff happen for yourself. Our country's current financial state can only be rectified through encouraging work and output. Taxes on jobs. Higher taxes on incomes. Taxes on corporations. Revenge taxes. There's no incentive to try and be rich.

What about the people who can't stay in Sixth Form because they need to get a job to support their family, or can't afford to go to University? Don't talk bullshit about education and getting into a University, I'm going through it and I know plenty of people who wouldn't be able to afford to be going through it if it weren't for having 'society to help you the whole way'. Either you're a joke poster or you're ridiculously sheltered and ignorant.

Wait, I'm not saying society shouldn't help at all. I'm just against society being relied upon for one's entire life. I find your story quite strange seeing as I am currently going through the University stage and financial status has very little impact on ability to attend. Everyone is entitled to a hefty student loan. If you still can't afford it, you're entitled to a student maintenance grant. Not to mention various bursaries and grants offered by individual Universities.

Its about a balance between encouraging freedom and hard work, and a healthy recognition of what society has done for you.

I completely agree. Everyone owes something to society. It's just that forcing people to contribute and unfair amount just further polarizes society.

 

[Xun]

Sorry, but I think Murdoch/Tory control over the countries media is far more "1984" in prospect that Labours ludicrous ideas of using cameras to prevent criminal activity in areas and I.D. cards to easily identify local and illegal immigrants.

You obviously know nothing about the stupidity of the ID cards.

Labour will just lose the information at McDonalds or some shit.

 

[scotcheggz]

No. Not a little bit. A lot. Make stuff happen for yourself. Our country's current financial state can only be rectified through encouraging work and output. Taxes on jobs. Higher taxes on incomes. Taxes on corporations. Revenge taxes. There's no incentive to try and be rich.

Firstly, I edited my post, check it out.

Secondly, sure, people need encouragement to do things for themselves, I'll agree there. Sometimes all it takes is a little bit of help, a small push and away you go. See the Lib-Dems manifesto for welfare and read how they plan to do just that by cutting taxes for people earning less than 10k a year, encouraging people to start their own businesses etc.

 

[Sage00]

Want to be successful? Work in school. Get the grades you need. Go to a good university/college.

Can't do that without funding for schools, which Cameron will cut. Under this Labour govt. we have record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools, over 30,000 more teachers in English schools and the best ever primary school results. There are record numbers of students in higher education.

Get the job and career you want. Don't expect society to help you the whole way.

Which you could only do when employment reached it's highest level ever under this Labour govt., only to fall in a worldwide crisis which would've been worse under the Conservatives. Society should help those who find it hard to get work, and when they do they should be guaranteed a national minimum wage introduced by this Labour government, which will rise in line with earnings to £7 by the end of the next session. All opposed by the Tories.

It's not the "toffs" who have suffered through this past Parliament. It's families like mine.

Families which have been helped by Child Tax Credits and the Child Trust Fund, which the Tories will cut (and they won't cut them for low income households, they'll cut them for YOU. The "hard working family")? Families who take advantage of free nursery places for 4 and 5 year olds? 2 weeks paternity leave for fathers which is planned to increase to months? 2 million new child care places?

Anyone who acts like this government hasn't been a massive success is either blind or misinformed. Labour may be tired and out of the fantastic ideas above, but not a single one of them would've come through on a Tory govt., instead we'd be back to the society fends for itself culture which brought the country to ruin in the 80s and the 30s.

But let's not stop there. New Labour enacted the Human Rights and Freedom of Information acts, which Conservatives opposed. Devolved power to Scotland and Wales, massive successes, which Conservatives opposed. Removed most hereditary peers, which Conservatives opposed and they oppose getting rid of the rest of them. Peace in Northern Ireland came thanks to the help of this Labour government. Hospital waiting times reduced from 18 months to 6 weeks, with record numbers of nurses and doctors. We could go on and on, but I have a feeling your put your hands over your ears and pretend none of it happened.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I think this endorsement of the tories is the best argument i've seen for supporting them. Basically go for the tories if you reallt want to punish Labour for their mistakes most effectively, and if to you the most important issue facing the country is the deficit.

http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=16007299

I might be a complete utter idiot but that article largely read like right wing politics > left wing politics to me with no real explanation of how the Torys would save the economy whilst the others wouldn't. I think the most glaring example is them bring up trident as a negative point without any explanation despite the money it would save.

You obviously know nothing about the stupidity of the ID cards.

Labour will just lose the information at McDonalds or some shit.

I was solely talking about the 1984 analogy, I seriously doubt the thought police would leave their documents on trains.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I presume this is the one where they actually ask how people voted? God, I can't wait for that one. Should easily be the most accurate, especially as it will include those who only decided on the day.

Yeah, but Sky.

That Camerwrong video is fucking hilarious. I'm easily amused by those chopped up vids, but some of it flowed so well!

 

[Michan]

I was solely talking about the 1984 analogy, I seriously doubt the thought police would leave their documents on trains.

 

[FabCam]

Firstly, I edited my post, check it out.

Secondly, sure, people need encouragement to do things for themselves, I'll agree there. Sometimes all it takes is a little bit of help, a small push and away you go. See the Lib-Dems manifesto for welfare and read how they plan to do just that by cutting taxes for people earning less than 10k a year, encouraging people to start their own businesses etc.

Yeah I just saw. Maybe I'm coming across too strongly. I'm not against society helping the needy and those who want to succeed. I just think that the balance between society help and self-drive is currently unfair.

@Sage00: We're going to have to agree to disagree. A Labour government has got us into one trillion pounds of debt, which will be 100% of GDP by 2011 if estimates prove to be correct. "Social equality" has worsened. People classified as "high earners" feel ostracized from society. The public sector is a disgrace. It's overcrowded and grossly inefficient. Even after all this, he has the nerve to say that public spending needs to increase? And when it comes to my family, tax increases over Labour's time in power have strangled finances more than tax credits, which are designed to help low earners (rightfully so), can even fractionally make up for.

EDIT: Just read your edit. All of these "successes" have come at massive expense to the tax payer.

 

[Dark Machine]

I seriously doubt the thought police would leave their documents on trains.

Well they did last time...

Also I agree with Sage00 that by and large this Labour government has done some wonderful things, it's made some bad mistakes, but hey the Tories agreed with them when they were made. I'm Voting Lib Dem for new Progressive politics and electoral reform. But I acknowledge the progress made under the Labour government, even if I dislike some of the things they did.

 

[Empty]

I might be a complete utter idiot but that article largely read like right wing politics > left wing politics to me with no real explanation of how the Torys would save the economy whilst the others wouldn't. I think the most glaring example is them bring up trident as a negative point without any explanation despite the money it would save.

Well yes, but your reaction against them is one from someone who doesn't think that. That article just explains why if you believe a certain way, and have certain priorities, which many do, then the Tories are just about the best choice. So basically, you believe in a neo-liberal market based economy that focuses on cutting the deficit first to restore investors faith in our country, or that our position as a large nuclear power is important, then you should vote tory.

 

[Wes]

I'm not sure I want to live in a country where Spurs make the Top 4 and Labour could still hold the most seats after all this.

 

[brain_stew]

Someone brought it up before but I feel its worth posting again, close to election night. A vote for the Tories is a vote for bigotry and hompohobia, the shadow cabinet's voting record on recent gay right's bills is indefensible and these are the MPs they're willing to show in public. The backbenchers that have peronally set up churches to "cure" gay people (here)are so much worse and these are the MPs that will have Cameron by the balls if he gets into number 10. Say bye, bye to progressive and tolerant Britain if the worst happens tomorrow night.

 

[Ashes]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/elections/...-as-online-chief-sabotages-operation/19759643

 

[blazinglord]

The time for arguing, quoting and countering and re-countering is over. Irrespective of who wins, I am glad that the election campaign drawing to an end now. I've forgotten what Thursday night use to be like! Or what it was like to be able to watch the news/read the papers without an election story or cleggmania taking up coverage. :lol

Although the high level of undecided voters worries me, my gut feeling is that the outcome will be: a small Conservative majority. But I guess we shall see whether I'm right on Friday morning!

 

[Empty]

There's also this, brain stew.

 

[killer_clank]

No front pages yet?

 

[Gary Whitta]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/elections/...-as-online-chief-sabotages-operation/19759643

I just visited the BNP website to see if it's still down. I guess they got it restored in some basic form, and all I can say is the family on their front page is the scariest-looking collection of white people I've ever seen.

 

[brain_stew]

There's also this, brain stew.

Yeah, cheers, forgot to look for that one. Its completely indefensible and one of the reasons I just can not trust the party at all. The public image may have changed, but at their heart the members that pull the strings still have the same vile and outdated beliefs. Only 24% belive that gay people shouldn't be discriminated against? Really? How in the fuck do you even begin to explain that away!?

 

[blazinglord]

Someone brought it up before but I feel its worth posting again, close to election night. A vote for the Tories is a vote for bigotry and hompohobia, the shadow cabinet's voting record on recent gay right's bills is indefensible and these are the MPs they're willing to show in public. The backbenchers that have peronally set up churches to "cure" gay people (here)are so much worse and these are the MPs that will have Cameron by the balls if he gets into number 10. Say bye, bye to progressive and tolerant Britain if the worst happens tomorrow night.

To be honest, I'm not entirely convinced that gay equality rates highly on the issues that matters to the majority of the electorate. If it did, I think the aftermath of Chris Grayling's B&B comments would have seen a dent in the Tory polling and the other two leaders would have made a bigger issue of it. But they didn't, and their silence is pretty deafening.

 

[Sage00]

A Labour government has got us into one trillion pounds of debt, which will be 100% of GDP by 2011 if estimates prove to be correct.

We are in a worldwide recession caused by a global financial crisis. It is basic economics that the larger the recession the larger the deficit will be, and the only sure way to get out of it is by spending to stimulate the economy. The entire world agrees with this, well, the entire world except the Conservative party.

"Social equality" has worsened. People classified as "high earners" feel ostracized from society.

This is a convenient phrase. Social equality has worsened, you're right. The gap between the rich and poor has widened, you're right. The Tories bring this up a lot. But why has this happened?

Because there are more high income earners in Britain than ever before. Low income earners haven't got worse off, it's just that richer people have become better off at a faster rate. 800,000 children were lifted out of poverty. 1,000,000 pensioners were lifted out of poverty. A minimum wage was established, 4 weeks paid holiday became a right, child benefit increased 25%. The winter fuel allowance, free bus passes for pensioners, free entry to museums for everyone, free eye tests, etc etc etc. Even the IFS say that everything would've been worse off without Labour's tax and spending policies. Do not try to play down Labour's social responsibility.

The public sector is a disgrace. It's overcrowded and grossly inefficient. Even after all this, he has the nerve to say that public spending needs to increase?

Dismantling the BBC and cutting funding to schools and police doesn't fix this. 'Getting rid of the quangos' is such a farse.

And when it comes to my family, tax increases over Labour's time in power have strangled finances more than tax credits, which are designed to help low earners (rightfully so), can even fractionally make up for.

If you think you would've been better off under the Tories you're dreaming.

EDIT: Just read your edit. All of these "successes" have come at massive expense to the tax payer.

And every single one of them has been worth it.

 

[brain_stew]

To be honest, I'm not entirely convinced that gay equality rates highly on the issues that matters to the majority of the electorate. If it did, I think the aftermath of Chris Grayling's B&B comments would have seen a dent in the Tory polling and the other two leaders would have made a bigger issue of it. But they didn't, and their silence is pretty deafening.

Whether people care about it or not is not for me to say, but more people should be aware that homophobia runs through the heart of the party to this day. Many seem oblivious to that fact, and they really shouldn't be because any one with an ounce of morals would be appalled by it as I am.

 

[Empty]

Anyone want to make some vote share predictions?

I reckon Tories: 37 Labour: 30 Lib Dem: 26 Others: 7. Turnout at over 70%.

Tories grab just over 300 seats and form a minority government.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Well they did last time...

My point being that his fear was with Labours incompetence when it came to keeping private data private, not due to any Orwellian aspect.

Too long to quote.

Edit: Gah, ignore my previous post I've been incredibly stupid. My issue resides with why people would still love the idea of a completely free market if they're not the ones making a huge amount from it.

 

[Wes]

Paxman had a haircut for the big day awwww

 

[killer_clank]

Independent with great front page as usual. I might buy it tomorrow.

No sign of The Sun's yet, although there is this stinker from the dire Daily Express:

 

[curls]

Ugh reading those statistics posted above highlights how outdated the Conservative party really is.
Political reform would be the death of the Conservative party. Good!

 

[Parl]

Anyone want to make some vote share predictions?

I reckon Tories: 37 Labour: 30 Lib Dem: 26 Others: 7. Turnout at over 70%.

Tories grab just over 300 seats and form a minority government.

Tories: 36%
Labour: 29%
Lib Dems: 25%

Tory majority governement: 330 seats

 

[killer_clank]

Guardian are saying an 8 point lead for the Tories in their poll.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Wow those pie charts really put it in perspective. Fuck the Tories.

I don't believe in tactical voting usually but I think in this case it's warranted. Whatever it takes to keep that c*nt Cameron and his old boys network out of power.

 

[Empty]

Nice Indy front page again. Ominously looking forward to seeing what The Sun pulls out with their last opportunity.

 

[Wes]

Sun, Guardian and Independent for me tomorrow I think.

 

[curls]

No sign of The Sun's yet, although there is this stinker from the dire Daily Express:

Jeez the majority of the media in this country stinks, how hard is it to make a neutral mainstream newspaper? All you need are a pair of tits on page 3, a 40 page football section at the back and some shitty celebrity gossip in the middle. Job done.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

There's also this, brain stew.

Disgusting, though I'm pretty confused about the lib dems dropping around 10% when it comes to age of consent and the discrimination act?

 

[brain_stew]

Wow those pie charts really put it in perspective. Fuck the Tories.

I don't believe in tactical voting usually but I think in this case it's warranted. Whatever it takes to keep that c*nt Cameron and his old boys network out of power.

Sadly, tactical voting may be the only way to forever get rid of tactical voting, as ironic as that is.

 

[Sage00]

I have to say, if the Tories do get in I can't wait until their emergency budget to see them raise VAT despite everything they've said about National Insurance. Personal vindication won't come a moment too soon.

 

[killer_clank]

LOL WUT?

Oh.my.god

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol