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UK PoliGAF: General election thread of LibCon Coalitionage

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NekoFever

Member
radioheadrule83 said:
It'd be the most scrutinised document ever written, so I have no worries about a British Bill of Rights...

I think the real reason they're doing it is because British courts have been interfered with by the European court from time to time - and thats bad press for all concerned - so yeah its about replacing it with a British bill... but also I think they're looking back now at things we brought in "in the heat of the moment" following 9/11 -- I believe it was posted in another UK PoliGAF thread that an independent body is now looking into all the legislation passed since 9/11 with regard to civil liberties...

I think that thankfully, we're all coming back to our senses now, we're going to repeal and draw back some of the measures that infringe on peoples' privacy and civil rights, and a British Bill of Rights will prevent them from being infringed upon again in future. Even in the "the heat of the moment" and the event of a crazy terror attack or something.

And if thats what its about, I wholeheartedly support it.
If that's what was going to happen, and it would guarantee rights rather than take them away, I'm okay with it. I'm just worried that most of the criticism of the HRA/ECHR seems to come from the crowd who are angry that it's protecting the rights of criminals and Those Who Would Destroy Britain™, and it gets dangerous when a bill of rights only guarantees rights for certain people.

Personally I think the current system is fine, and I don't see what making a new British-only version would do expect waste a lot of money.
 

Wes

venison crêpe
The Condition of the Parties – focus on 34 per cent, not 40 per cent

With the General Election barely three weeks away, there is some mounting evidence that the race is tightening up. While much media commentary so far has focused on whether David Cameron can get to 40 per cent and gain a clear majority, this week’s polls raise an interesting possibility. What if the Conservatives could get edged below 37 per cent and Labour could reach its magic number – which is around 34 per cent.

To see why this is so important, consider the shares of the votes at the last general election in 2005, shown in the chart below. The Other parties – UKIP, Greens, BNP, and the Scottish and Welsh Nationalists – then polled one in twelve of all votes, and the Liberal Democrats a high of 23 per cent (a little buoyed up by opposing the Iraq invasion). That left 69 per cent of the vote for the top two parties to split between them, with Labour just pipping the Conservatives, by 36 to 33 per cent.

UK-Voting-2005.jpg


How different will things turn out in 2010? The answer is not very much at all as my second chart shows. YouGov’s massed regional polls for the first week of the campaign (covering 9,600 respondents) show that the Other parties are racking up 11 per cent of the votes, and are running at historic high levels in most regions. This support may be squeezed a bit in England by polling day, but is till looking like 10 per cent across Great Britain. The Liberal Democrats are on 19 per cent in the YouGov polls, but there is already evidence that their support is moving up as the campaign progresses. On past form we might expect them to pick up a couple more per cent on polling day, and this time (courtesy of Gordon Brown) they have three debates to get Nick Clegg better known and liked by the electorate. So I would be very surprised if they do not get 22 per cent on polling day.

UK-Voting-2010.jpg


On current polls, then it seems that only around 68 per cent of the total votes are going to be available to the top two parties for them to carve up between them. Dividing this amount evenly by two, we get to the magic number of 34 per cent – a level for Labour that would spell Gordon Brown back in Downing Street and for the Conservatives would mean David Cameron looking into the abyss, and facing some serious criticisms from his party’s right wing.

So how far are the two parties away from this even split of the votes? Our chart below of all the campaign polls shows that the answer is not very far, given that the Tory lead is so narrow. Instead this week’s polls pull the Tories back towards the 37 per cent territory and Labour up towards 32 per cent, with one poll today even putting them at 33 per cent – which is within spitting distance of a fightback triumph if Labour could sustain this. So Cameron is running at most 3-4 per cent above a near-disaster level.

Remember too that Labour gets more MPs per million votes than the Tories do, because its support is more ‘efficiently’ spread across the country and because turnout in Labour areas is very substantially less than in many Tory strongholds.

Polling-Measure-12-April.jpg


Of course, three weeks is a long time in politics, especially in an election campaign. A Conservative supporter looking at my chart could well argue that the gap between the Conservatives and Labour has proved enduring, despite some wobbles over time. And the heads of the UK’s polling companies too seem to concur – surveyed by Politics Home they all predicted essentially a narrow Tory majority. But given the asymmetry between the two parties in what 34 per cent means for each of them, David Cameron’s apparent inability to carve out a clearer lead will no doubt be causing some sweaty brows in Conservative HQ.

So, remember, you can get best characterize the state of the race by asking how far each party is away from that magic 34 per cent level. Today’s polls give the answer that:

- the Tories are 3 per cent above a level that is disaster for them

- and Labour are 2 per cent short of a triumph (of sorts).

There is certainly still everything to play for.

Great insight into the poll numbers here.
 

Walshicus

Member
radioheadrule83 said:
It'd be the most scrutinised document ever written, so I have no worries about a British Bill of Rights...

I think the real reason they're doing it is because British courts have been interfered with by the European court from time to time - and thats bad press for all concerned - so yeah its about replacing it with a British bill... but also I think they're looking back now at things we brought in "in the heat of the moment" following 9/11 -- I believe it was posted in another UK PoliGAF thread that an independent body is now looking into all the legislation passed since 9/11 with regard to civil liberties...

I think that thankfully, we're all coming back to our senses now, we're going to repeal and draw back some of the measures that infringe on peoples' privacy and civil rights, and a British Bill of Rights will prevent them from being infringed upon again in future. Even in the "the heat of the moment" and the event of a crazy terror attack or something.

And if thats what its about, I wholeheartedly support it.
But - and maybe I'm biased because I know someone who helped draft the British interpretation of the act - the existing HR system we have is perfectly functional. The few cases you see in the tabloid are the result of seemingly deliberate misinterpretation of the legislation.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/humanrightsandwrongs/bad-press
 

Wes

venison crêpe
Apart from the usual "their numbers don't add up" line pumped from the PR to the press regarding the LibDems manifesto, both Labour and the Tories had nothing bad to say about them. Rather they tried to sell themselves to the LibDems voters, trying to get 'em to vote Red or Blue instead because those are the only two who will realistically run a parliament in 2010.
 

FabCam

Member
Wes said:
Apart from the usual "their numbers don't add up" line pumped from the PR to the press regarding the LibDems manifesto, both Labour and the Tories had nothing bad to say about them. Rather they tried to sell themselves to the LibDems voters, trying to get 'em to vote Red or Blue instead because those are the only two who will realistically run a parliament in 2010.

They won't hate on it because all their policies are popular with a large percentage of the population. There's no way Labour would come out an say "tax breaks for poorer people is ridiculous!" They're being strategic, nothing more.
 
I lol'd at the BBC pointing out that the very poorest won't gain from the £10,000 tax threshold change. Yeah, because those people DON'T PAY ANY TAX AT ALL, because they're poor!..my God...
 
Dark Machine said:
I lol'd at the BBC pointing out that the very poorest won't gain from the £10,000 tax threshold change. Yeah, because those people DON'T PAY ANY TAX AT ALL, because they're poor!..my God...

I thought it was pretty amazing, especially how they didn't go into how the rate changes for those earning 100k after the taxless 10k :lol
 

Chinner

Banned
FabCam said:
They won't hate on it because all their policies are popular with a large percentage of the population. There's no way Labour would come out an say "tax breaks for poorer people is ridiculous!" They're being strategic, nothing more.
They won't hate it because they're busy enough hating each other while trying to convince the Lib Dems to join them. However, the newspapers and the media and general who have strong bias towards either the tories or labour will have no problems attacking the lib dems policies.
 

FabCam

Member
The BBC are are taking a very anti-Lib Dem approach. First of all they bump their manifesto from the "top story" on the 6 and 10 o'clock news and instead talk of some medical discovery that won't be implemented for at least 3 years. Then the opening story on Newsnight is about a Lib Dem transferring to Labour after being poorly treated or some shizz. Less than 5mins spent talking to Cable which was a real shame. However much a disagree with LibDem policies, Vince truly is the man!
 

Chinner

Banned
yeah well that's the media for you. it's the same even for the guardian; after the labour and tory manifestos came out they gave them like a separate panel right at the top of the page, but lib dems didn't get that.
 
Chinner said:
missed it cause i was watching blade runner (which owns by the way). did he hold his own?

Yeah I thought he did well with what time he had...I mean seriously, the beeb are trying to play down the LD's a bit too much I think, from Pax's "You're never gonna win!" on Monday to the bumping of the manifesto tonight after all the attention to the other parties, then the attention to Brown and Cameron appealing shamelessly to LD voters.

Blade Runner does indeed own. When I get my own place I want a massive screen and surround sound just to watch that movie again in the best possible way. :D

Also, there's a great program at the moment on BBC2 about the 80s and 90s and the British family. Worth looking at if (like me) you're too young to really remember the Tory years very well or don't understand just how bad it can get. I never realised how bad it got in the North and in my own cities (Liverpool and Sheffield) until I started watching some of these programs. Catch it on iPlayer if you can: The British Family: Our History

P.S. God Tebbit and Thatcher were so out of touch it's unbeliveable. This really was how they saw the world. (Racism warning) :D
 

SmokyDave

Member
operon said:
why the itv boycott
Because it's fucking awful mindless brain-rot with no redeeming programming whatsoever. It's the Sun of television. I detest the channel so much that I've detuned it on every TV tuner I have.
 

Acheteedo

Member
Shame you can't do polls on gaf, I'd be interested to see who people here are voting for. This place tends to be more liberal than the general populous.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Acheteedo said:
Shame you can't do polls on gaf, I'd be interested to see who people here are voting for. This place tends to be more liberal than the general populous.
I've collated the results for you...

Jas0nuk - Conservatives.
SmokyDave - BNP (unless someone further right comes along).
Chinner - Monster Raving Loony Party.
Dabookerman - UKIP.
Iapetus - LIBERAL DEMOCRATS!
Everyone else - Liberal Democrats.
 
You can put me down for UKIP. After seeing last weeks Have I got News For you, Nigel Farrage reminds me of a dodgy car sales man. I would totally vote for him.
 

Lucius86

Banned
FabCam said:
Less than 5mins spent talking to Cable which was a real shame. However much a disagree with LibDem policies, Vince truly is the man!

He is the best chancellor the UK will never have.
 

painey

Member
just got 2 fillings and im pissed to find out my football game tonight clashes with the debate. Will there be an ITV catchup online or something?
 

SmokyDave

Member
Monster Raving Loony Party Manifesto said:
One Sided Policy
It is proposed that The European Union end its discrimination by creating a "Court of Human Lefts" because their present policy is one_sided.

Good Heroes
Make it illegal for super heroes to use their powers for evil.

Scary Terrorists
Ban all terrorists from having beards as they look scary.

Isle of?
It is proposed that the Isle of Man be renamed to "The Isle of Men, Women, Children and some Animals" as not just men live there.

Political correctness
The Isle of Wight should be changed to: "The Isle of Mixed Races, and Cultures Located off the Coast of Britain."

Not read a MRLP Manifesto for a while. I like these guys.

painey said:
just got 2 fillings and im pissed to find out my football game tonight clashes with the debate. Will there be an ITV catchup online or something?

http://tvcatchup.com/ or http://www.itv.com/electiondebate/

Credit to Chinner for t'links.
 

NekoFever

Member
Chinner said:
Have you seen their policies on GCSEs? They're simply amazing!
Last time they were going to double the number of hospitals by erecting giant mirrors next to every one in the country. Their manifesto is the highlight of every election :lol
 

SmokyDave

Member
Monster Raving Loonies again said:
Good Morning
It should be illegal to wake up prior to 9.00 A.M. Offenders will made to work on a treadmill for 25 hours, and then woken up after 30 mins heavy sleep with a large alarm clock. Thrown at them.
The exception to this rule will be Doctors who, will have to work longer hours due to the extra number of reported head injuries

An Englishman's home is his Chateaux
It is proposed that everyone in England should buy one hundred square meters (or be subsidized to do so) of France.
The English would then own France, saving a lot of arguments, and winning us another UN veto...
After owning France, It is proposed that we should rent it back to the French
Then we should start on Germany.

Fellowship of the OMRLP
It is proposed that being the Lord of the Ring should be illegal. Anyone who owns the Ring should hand it into the capable hands of the OMRLP. From now on, when ever someone disappears, they should be called "Smeagol" or "Gollum" instead of John or Jane Doe.
Man, these guys are good. I'm swaying.

Chinner said:
More like Isle of retired, conservative and TT races.
Reason enough to celebrate the island!
 
Saw this on the front of the Mirror this morning:

david-cameron-pic-getty-images-155505701.jpg


Daily Mirror said:
Gordon Brown goes into tonight’s historic TV election debate with a ringing endorsement... from David Cameron.

It was revealed yesterday that Mr Cameron had described his rival as “awesome” and “a figure of colossal power and intellect”.


The gushing comments, made when he was a backbencher, are a huge embarrassment to the Tory leader – who will spend much of tonight’s debate rubbishing Mr Brown’s record.

And Mr Cameron faced another huge headache last night as 58 leading economists warned his plans to slash government spending this year risked plunging the UK back into recession.

David Cameron is expected to spend much of tonight’s historic TV debate between the party leaders taking a swipe at Gordon Brown’s record.

Which seems strange for man who not so long ago praised the Labour leader in such flowery terms he came across like a giggly love-sick schoolgirl.

As the election date gets closer and the Tory poll lead gets smaller, Mr Cameron’s attacks on Mr Brown’s handling of the economy have become increasingly bitter.

But before he became Tory leader Mr Cameron sang a very different tune – hailing the then ­Chancellor Brown as the safest pair of hands at the Treasury for a century.

In an online diary he wrote in April 2002 as a newly-elected backbencher he gushed: “Whether they are for tax and spend or against it, all the pundits seem to agree that Mr Brown is one of the greatest chancellors since William Gladstone.

“The economic record in terms of growth is undeniable.

“And I agree that he is a figure of colossal power and intellect.”


Mr Cameron, who also likened the Tories to a “failed” Skoda, added: “His presence in the Commons and command of the chamber are indeed awesome.”

The revelation of the comments will be a huge embarrassment to Mr Cameron as he prepares for tonight’s TV debate with Mr Brown and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg.

And there was more bad news for the Tory leader last night as 58 leading economists warned his savage plans for spending cuts this year risked pushing the economy back in recession.

The experts from around the world signed a letter warning the recovery remained “fragile” and “rash action” could lead to spiralling job losses.

They said: “At a time when recovery is delicate it could even affect ­confidence to the degree that we are tipped back into recession.”

The economists echoed Labour’s claim that cuts in spending must be delayed, adding: “This is not the time for such a destabilising action. Only when the recovery is well under way, will it be safe to have extra cuts in expenditure.”

More than 10 million are expected to tune in to ITV at 8.30pm tonight to watch the first of the three TV debates.

Two in three voters say they will watch at least one of them.

And Labour strategists believe they may decide the outcome of what is expected to be the closest election for years.

One said: “We expect large number of ­undecided voters to tune in. We do not expect them to watch for the entire 90 minutes or for all three TV debates. But we do think many people will make up their minds in the first 45 minutes when they can compare the leaders side-by-side.”

Lord Mandelson yesterday said he had advised Mr Brown not to get into a slanging match with Mr Cameron.

He said he had advised: “Be yourself, be clear, be straight with people. Don’t compete with Mr Cameron’s personal insults.”

Mr Cameron yesterday tried to lower expectations of his performance. He said: “I cannot pretend that I’m not nervous.”

And he said he was worried the TV format was too “sluggish” with only eight questions in an hour.

His remarks were brushed aside by Sky Political Editor Adam Boulton, who helped set up the debates. He said: “David Cameron needs to be careful.

“The rules he is attacking are those insisted upon during months of bargaining.”

During tonight’s debate ITV’s Alastair Stewart will put questions on domestic affairs – schools, hospitals, immigration and crime.

Labour strategists warned that in similar debates held abroad PMs sometimes ­struggled.

A campaign adviser said: “They tend to suggest there will be a poll bounce for David Cameron because the challenger almost always scores a draw or beats the incumbent.

“We also believe that Nick Clegg will emerge as the single winner almost regardless of ­performance because of the significant boost to his profile. It is the first time he has had the equivalence of profile and will be seen alongside Gordon and Cameron on the same terms.”

But despite this the adviser said Mr Brown expected to win on substance.

He added: “He believes that in argument and substance he wins. But he accepts that Cameron, with his years of PR experience, has superior performance skills.

“Gordon has spent years dealing with day to day events in government.

“David Cameron has had years to prepare for these events.”

Sarah Brown is expected to decide what her husband will wear for the debate.

A ComRes poll has found evidence that debates could have a serious effect on the way Britain votes on May 6.

Just 31% said they would not watch any of the debates while 32% said they would watch but the debates would not ­influence their vote.

But 33% said they will watch the debates – and they would influence how they voted.

Meanwhile it yesterday emerged David Cameron will not face the BBC’s veteran presenter Jeremy Paxman in a pre-election interview.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...e-of-gordon-brown-as-awesome-115875-22186713/
 
Is there anyway of downloading the full manifestos? Or at least seeing some of the graphics used. I saw Paxman flicking through the conservative one on newsnight and it looked aesthetically pleasing, I want to see the detail in them, it looked like it had a few Union style posters in it?
 

Empty

Member
i'm interested in seeing the viewing figures for the election debates. i wonder how many people who aren't political junkies, or don't even pay that much attention to politics, will bother tuning in.

in the US, 52.4 million watched the first 2008 election debate, so maybe 10 million would be expected here if the same proportion of the population watch, which isn't unreasonable given we have nearly exactly the same turnouts for elections, but then again the presidential system lends itself better to a clash of personalities that tv debates offer which might make them more popular over there.
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
travisbickle said:
Is there anyway of downloading the full manifestos? Or at least seeing some of the graphics used. I saw Paxman flicking through the conservative one on newsnight and it looked aesthetically pleasing, I want to see the detail in them, it looked like it had a few Union style posters in it?

Aren't they linked in the OP? All available in PDF form from the relevant parties' websites.
 
travisbickle said:
Is there anyway of downloading the full manifestos? Or at least seeing some of the graphics used. I saw Paxman flicking through the conservative one on newsnight and it looked aesthetically pleasing, I want to see the detail in them, it looked like it had a few Union style posters in it?

My flatmate is a graphic designer and he said he felt like the Labour and Tory ones were both nice, but the Labour one looked more like a friendly family brochure - like something you would see in a hospital waiting room or in a travel lobby - whereas he felt the simple Navy Blue tory one looked more serious, official and governmental...

We had to have a talk because he was contemplating basing his voting choice on this.
 

Varion

Member
Originally Posted by Daily Mirror: said:
Meanwhile it yesterday emerged David Cameron will not face the BBC’s veteran presenter Jeremy Paxman in a pre-election interview.
What a surprise :lol Shame, I was looking forward to how badly it would go. Brown hasn't backed out yet, right?
 
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