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UK PoliGAF: General election thread of LibCon Coalitionage

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Jex

Jex

Member
NekoFever said:
They're not eating fish and chips. IS THERE ANYTHING BRITISH ABOUT NICK CLEGG?
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He's just going to cut military spending and leave our ports defenceless so that the Spanish Armada can roll right in and punch our Queen in the face!
 
S

sohois

Member
Jexhius said:
He's just going to cut military spending and leave our ports defenceless so that the Spanish Armada can roll right in and punch our Queen in the face!
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As if the Spanish Armada could take on Robo-Queen.
 
A

avaya

Member
sohois said:
You're gonna get plenty of labour against PR, they'll lose a significant chunk of seats as well and they would probably like to maintain the 2 party system just as much as the Tories.
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Labour won't be against PR since the whips will make it so. It's only really one party that needs to prevent FPTP from being removed. Everyone knows it.

The arguments against PR are woeful. Arguing against an equal vote is very difficult to make.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
killer_clank said:
To be fair, this never usually happens here so it's just like a constant state of 'WTF!?>'
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I know I know. I was just saying that I'd be great for me to see Belgium in such a state of excitement again over government formation. With us it's more like a chore that has to happen and everyone hopes it's done quickly. Not saying that isn't the case with you guys, but the sentiment of doubt and anxiety seems to be mixed with excitement over something new, novel and unknown. :)
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
avaya said:
That means it's literally EVERYONE against the Tories. It will win.
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As a Canadian who has seen two referendums on electoral reform fail, for all the talk that people have about wanting to change the system... very few people actually want the status quo to change.

I'm sure even Labour supporters don't really support it because they think they'll win a tradition FPTP election eventually.
 
H

Harry_Tequila

Member
Dark Machine said:
Just watched the Boulton vs Campbell interview. Boulton's such an idiot taking on the 2nd most dangerous man in politics. Got blown away, I was just surprised when Campbell didn't come out with "U MAD ADAM?" the scrabbling by the media and Sky especially is hilarious, they're all wondering just how Cameron could've possibly put himself into this position.

Also playing Golden Brown now every time they show the Tories offering new stuff or looking ruffled and indignant. :D
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Out of curiosity who is the most dangerous? Mandleson?
 
A

avaya

Member
firehawk12 said:
As a Canadian who has seen two referendums on electoral reform fail, for all the talk that people have about wanting to change the system... very few people actually want the status quo to change.

I'm sure even Labour supporters don't really support it because they think they'll win a tradition FPTP election eventually.
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You're assuming they won't follow what the Party wants them to.

They will follow.
 
X

Xavien

Member
avaya said:
Labour won't be against PR since the whips will make it so. It's only really one party that needs to prevent FPTP from being removed. Everyone knows it.

The arguments against PR are woeful. Arguing against an equal vote is very difficult to make.
Click to expand...

Also the SNP/PC/Greens wouldn't be against it either since it serves their interest greatly.
 
S

sohois

Member
avaya said:
Labour won't be against PR since the whips will make it so. It's only really one party that needs to prevent FPTP from being removed. Everyone knows it.

The arguments against PR are woeful. Arguing against an equal vote is very difficult to make.
Click to expand...

I was assuming in a referendum you would have die-hard labour voters being against it the same way Tory voters would. But in a parliamentary surely it's even less likely to get pass in a lib-lab coalition (which is what i'm assuming you're referring to), since it would only take a handful of labour rebels to topple their slender majority. I'd imagine the prospect of losing their seats would be enough to cause a number of MPs to go against the whips.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
firehawk12 said:
As a Canadian who has seen two referendums on electoral reform fail, for all the talk that people have about wanting to change the system... very few people actually want the status quo to change.

I'm sure even Labour supporters don't really support it because they think they'll win a tradition FPTP election eventually.
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A factor that should be reckoned with. The "no" option always has by default a big advantage over the "yes" option simply because it represents the status quo, stability and known.
 
Acheteedo

Acheteedo

Member
avaya said:
The arguments against PR are woeful. Arguing against an equal vote is very difficult to make.
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Right, so why are people saying the tories could defeat PR (or AV) in a referendum? Surely it would succeed?
 
A

avaya

Member
sohois said:
I was assuming in a referendum you would have die-hard labour voters being against it the same way Tory voters would. But in a parliamentary surely it's even less likely to get pass in a lib-lab coalition (which is what i'm assuming you're referring to), since it would only take a handful of labour rebels to topple their slender majority. I'd imagine the prospect of losing their seats would be enough to cause a number of MPs to go against the whips.
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In a referendum you won't get enough diehards from Labour to make a dent.

There are very few Labour die hards to begin with. With the parliamentary party in support of PR most Labour voters would vote for PR. Add all of the Lib Dems, all of the SNP, all of the Plaid, all of the Greens, all of the UKIP batshits and even, god forbid, all of the BNP racists, you will have north of 60% of the vote for PR. At that point you can afford to lose boat loads of Labour die hards to the dark side. This is also assuming all Conservatives vote against. Which won't happen.

Piece of piss. Demands Lib-Lab deal but it'll be a piece of piss.
 
X

Xavien

Member
Acheteedo said:
Right, so why are people saying the tories could defeat PR (or AV) in a referendum? Surely it would succeed?
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Because Murdoch's media would push a No vote as hard as they could, I don't have enough faith in the public to resist Murdochs message.
 
A

Atrophis

Member
Tony Benn is my one and only Hero.

On the referendum for electoral reform, I cant hope but fear it will be defeated badly. All of the misinfo in most of the papers would tar it with a negative brush that will be hard wash.
 
G

Gary Whitta

Member
Chinner said:
Shame about Hiliary Benn and Emily Benn.
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But then there's also this other national treasure:

mr-benn-bbc-david-mckee.jpg
 
Acheteedo

Acheteedo

Member
Xavien said:
Because Murdoch's media would push a No vote as hard as they could, I don't have enough faith in the public to resist Murdochs message.
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True, but what angle could they present? The only downsides to the AV system are that it doesn't give all the advantages that PR would. Arguing not to even go as far as AV would be a hard sell even for trash like the Mail.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
avaya said:
In a referendum you won't get enough diehards from Labour to make a dent.

There are very few Labour die hards to begin with. With the parliamentary party in support of PR most Labour voters would vote for PR. Add all of the Lib Dems, all of the SNP, all of the Plaid, all of the Greens, all of the UKIP batshits and even, god forbid, all of the BNP racists, you will have north of 60% of the vote for PR. At that point you can afford to lose boat loads of Labour die hards to the dark side. This is also assuming all Conservatives vote against. Which won't happen.

Piece of piss. Demands Lib-Lab deal but it'll be a piece of piss.
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Well, I certainly hope it turns out that way anyhow.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
A curious side-effect of this sort of party bargaining in a hung parliament seems to be that you can no longer hold a party to its manifesto.

As it is, manifestos get ignored a lot, but with this sort of deal they become not so much a promise to the electorate as a bag of bargaining chips to be tossed away in negotiation.

I don't think I like that. Would much prefer to know what I am voting for and be able to yell at them when they don't do it.
 
D

Dark Machine

Member
Chinner said:
Shame about Hiliary Benn and Emily Benn.
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Hiliary is just pragmatic I think, no one would vote for the old Bennite policies any more, they were rejected in the 80s and most voters are too well off now to care about them.
 
T

travisbickle

Member
phisheep said:
A curious side-effect of this sort of party bargaining in a hung parliament seems to be that you can no longer hold a party to its manifesto.

As it is, manifestos get ignored a lot, but with this sort of deal they become not so much a promise to the electorate as a bag of bargaining chips to be tossed away in negotiation.

I don't think I like that. Would much prefer to know what I am voting for and be able to yell at them when they don't do it.
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Are you going through the seven stages of grief?
 
T

tubgirlsplumber

Banned
Xavien said:
Electoral reform will be shelved for a generation if its put on hold now. The economy isn't that important, Cameron said the markets would run on the pound in the event of a hung parliament... and it hasn't happened, makes you wonder what other economic issues the Tories are lying about.

The Tories are feeding the press the economy line to try to take the focus off electoral reform, as long as people are focused on it, the Tories are going to find it very hard to put it off.
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Erm, the economy is quite important to say the least, and we're not in a very good state at the moment. It's probably everyone's biggest concern.

I'm not sure that whatever the markets did today would be a good indicator for anything. The markets are very fickle and particular, I wouldn't rely on them to track anything, unless shit hits the fan, or the play makers fancy a giggle.

Not sure what's so important about voting reform, not sure if many people care about that, it only became an issue before the election when Labour raised it as a potential carrot for the Libs when they knew they were screwed and feared of a hung Parliament.


avaya said:
.

Brown is still the best man to bring this country out of this slump. By far. Shame he became PM, he was and still would be an awesome chancellor. his only fault was getting lumped in with Greenspan's recession.
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Brown's a plodder and no radical, but he will never know how to make hay while the sun shines, he sucks at prudent fiscal policy, which is funny because everyone thought he was.
 
V

Varion

Member
The BBC spellcheckers really seem to be off work today, first 'Ordon Brown resigns' and now I just saw 'Commmons' fly past on the ticker :lol

mmmm.jpg
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
I wish John Reid, Diane Abbot etc would realise that it's probably going to be a Lib-Con deal in the end and this move by Brown just helps the Liberals get a better deal.
And it also makes for bloody entertaining tv, the commentators are more fucking upset than any of the politicians.
 
X

Xavien

Member
tubgirlsplumber said:
Erm, the economy is quite important to say the least, and we're not in a very good state at the moment. It's probably everyone's biggest concern.

I'm not sure that whatever the markets did today would be a good indicator for anything. The markets are very fickle and particular, I wouldn't rely on them to track anything, unless shit hits the fan, or the play makers fancy a giggle.

Not sure what's so important about voting reform, not sure if many people care about that, it only became an issue before the election when Labour raised it as a potential carrot for the Libs when they knew they were screwed and feared of a hung Parliament.





Brown's a plodder and no radical, but he will never know how to make hay while the sun shines, he sucks at prudent fiscal policy, which is funny because everyone thought he was.
Click to expand...

The economy will still be here in a couple of weeks, just have patience instead wanting them to rush a coalition.
 
A

avaya

Member
tubgirlsplumber said:
Brown's a plodder and no radical, but he will never know how to make hay while the sun shines, he sucks at prudent fiscal policy, which is funny because everyone thought he was.
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Absolute bollocks. Any deficit reduction prior to 2007 would have been turned into a rounding error come 2008.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
Varion said:
The BBC spellcheckers really seem to be off work today, first 'Ordon Brown resigns' and now I just saw 'Commmons' fly past on the ticker :lol
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I see your commmons and raise you:

2qly6ok.jpg
 
V

Veidt

Blasphemer who refuses to accept bagged milk as his personal savior
Wes said:
I see your commmons and raise you:

2qly6ok.jpg
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How are you still watching this?
Isn't the live feed cut off right now?
where are you watching it?
 
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