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[Garjon]

Thankfully we already have this covered very very well, except not in newspaper form, and it has the biggest reach of any of the press.

long may it live.

But it's biased! Towards every political party in the country

To answer your earlier point, I agree that to those two, there probably is a lot riding on this election, so much so that the owners probably see their papers as unprofitable but powerful tools (similar to what Chinner said). It's sad that the newspaper industry has come to this, but I suppose that's that.

 

[Chinner]

Right I've got a question lets say its a hung parliament, is there any conceivable way that DaveCam and Gordon could indeed team up so to speak to form a coalition government?

If a hung parliament happens then Brown gets first dibs of making a coalition government. If you're actually asking if Brown and Cameron would form a coalition government then I would have to answer your question by asking if you're from this planet??

 

[Wes]

Right I've got a question lets say its a hung parliament, is there any conceivable way that DaveCam and Gordon could indeed team up so to speak to form a coalition government?

Not in this universe at least.

 

[Empty]

But it's biased! Towards every political party in the country

at the same time as being biased against every political party in the country.

it's kinda neat like that.

 

[Omikaru]

Iain Dale is defending Clegg in all these smears. And he's right. This will backfire.

 

[Sage00]

If a hung parliament happens then Brown gets first dibs of making a coalition government.

Not if the Tories are the largest party.

 

[Chinner]

Not if the Tories are the largest party.

I was under the impression that in case of a hung parliament the current prime minister gets first dibs. Alas, I will look it up.

 

[Timbuktu]

But at this point you'd think the big untouched market is a neutral newspaper and starting one would be an amazing business decision.

I don't think they're doing very well as a business, but The Independent is running this ad campaign at the moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g76l5wUgjb4

I'm not sure what all this smearing of Clegg is going to do though. I mean, i don't think people really think he is perfect and as the Tories are saying people aren't expecting Clegg to be PM, but seem to be actually liking the idea of a hung parliament. I guess they didn't get very far spreading fear over that either?

 

[Chinner]

I don't think they're doing very well as a business, but The Independent is running this ad campaign at the moment:

Independent has the lowest circulation numbers of all national newspapers and they've just been bought out; shamefully they're are not doing that well and they're not very influential.

Good paper though.

 

[Garjon]

Right I've got a question lets say its a hung parliament, is there any conceivable way that DaveCam and Gordon could indeed team up so to speak to form a coalition government?

It's technically possible, but wouldn't happen in a million years. The infighting and disagreements on even basic policies would be catastrophic to this entire country.

at the same time as being biased against every political party in the country.

it's kinda neat like that.

It's amazing to believe that so many genuinely believe it as well. Just shows what happens when you try to be moderate; rather than being attacked from one side, you get it from everybody.
It's amazing how people forget the Hutton report so quickly

 

[Sage00]

People like to hear news filtered through people who they think 'think like them'. Sadly The Independent is like water, with maybe a little of the Guardian's apple flavouring, too plain for most. People enjoy drinking Coke, and Murdoch owns the recipe.

 

[Linkified]

If a hung parliament happens then Brown gets first dibs of making a coalition government. If you're actually asking if Brown and Cameron would form a coalition government then I would have to answer your question by asking if you're from this planet??

Ok.

Well as it seems now almost like a full drawn conclusion that lib dems will win, how long before they change the voting system.

 

[Wes]

I was under the impression that in case of a hung parliament the current prime minister gets first dibs. Alas, I will look it up.

My understanding is whoever has the most seats initially gets to try to get something going. If they fail it's a free for all.

We need to clear this up.

 

[Sage00]

My understanding is whoever has the most seats initially gets to try to get something going. If they fail it's a free for all.

We need to clear this up.

That's correct. There is obviously no rule, but most politicians (including Clegg) say the largest party has a 'moral right to govern', and so first dibs on a coalition. That's what happened in Scotland when the SNP won a single seat more than Labour, the Labour-Lib Dem coalition that would've been larger broke down and SNP got their shot.

However, Clegg has repeatedly refused to answer if he defines 'largest party' by seats or by votes.

 

[Shanadeus]

I sincerely hope people will see through this smear campaign towards Clegg, hopefully it'll just backfire and lead to LibDem gaining even more support.

Also, is there even a slight chance the Liberal Democrats might actually come out on top in the election?

 

[defel]

It looks perfectly possible that labour could come out of this with the most seats and in that case, Labour will be calling the shots. I wonder how the public will react to that...

 

[Varion]

Also, is there even a slight chance the Liberal Democrats might actually come out on top in the election?

I'd love to say yes but in reality it's close to impossible because of how stacked the current electoral system is against them.

It's possible, but then again so is me winning the lottery.

 

[Sage00]

I think we calculated before that the Lib Dems would need around 40% of the popular vote to pick up the most seats. That would be about the level Labour were at in 1997. Unless we find out both Gordon and Dave are paedophiles or something in the next week then it's just not going to happen.

 

[Empty]

It looks perfectly possible that labour could come out of this with the most seats and in that case, Labour will be calling the shots. I wonder how the public will react to that...

Depends whether the face behind those calls is Gordon Brown, or not. There have been a few rumblings recently about Brown being ditched as leader in a possible coalition. I think the Lib Dems would lose much of their newfound popularity if they were to prop up Gordon Brown to serve another term (unelected again, i might add), but a lib-lab coalition with someone else in charge and keeping out the Tories, maybe not.

 

[industrian]

It looks perfectly possible that labour could come out of this with the most seats and in that case, Labour will be calling the shots. I wonder how the public will react to that...

Well the members of the public who voted Labour will be happy of course. Because, you know, they wanted Labour to win the election and all.

But people who don't like Labour will bitch and whine about it, realise there's nothing they can do about it, and just do what they normally do in their day to day lives. It's the British way.

 

[Sage00]

Which Labour MP do you guys think the Lib Dems would want as PM? Alan Johnson would be a good choice. I think I'd prefer Cameron over Harman or the Miliband bros. :lol

 

[Shanadeus]

I think we calculated before that the Lib Dems would need around 40% of the popular vote to pick up the most seats. That would be about the level Labour were at in 1997. Unless we find out both Gordon and Dave are paedophiles or something in the next week then it's just not going to happen.

We need to get that smear campaign started, much like the whole "Beck raped and murdered a little girl"-thing some people were doing.

 

[Omikaru]

Which Labour MP do you guys think the Lib Dems would want as PM? Alan Johnson would be a good choice. I think I'd prefer Cameron over Harman or the Miliband bros. :lol

Alan Johnson is probably my favourite Labour Home Secretary, though that does him few favours.

David Miliband is a smarmy twat, and his brother doesn't stand a chance of being PM. Harman is, for a better term, a feminazi. :lol

Not that it matters. Mandelson is already pulling the strings and preparing for Miliband (of the David variety) to take the helm when Gordon is ousted in two weeks. I bet he's already done the backroom deals so any snap Labour leader election is a stich-up.

 

[DECK'ARD]

The Nazi thing is unbelievable.

Hopefully faith in the British public will continue to rise when it backfires ...

 

[Varion]

Don't think this has been posted, tomorrow's post-debate Question Time panel:

Yvette Cooper - Work and Pensions Secretary
William Hague - Shadow Foreign Secretary
Ming Campbell - Former Lib Dem Leader
Elfyn Llwyd - Plaid Cymru Leader
Ann Leslie - Journalist for the Express and Daily Fail

So, copious amounts of bitching about how Clegg is a disgrace to Britain mixed in with whining about how the debates are a travesty to democracy it is then.

 

[Linkified]

Don't think this has been posted, tomorrow's post-debate Question Time panel:



So, copious amounts of bitching about how Clegg is a disgrace to Britain mixed in with whining about how the debates are a travesty to democracy it is then.

Is Question time from Cardiff this week?

Also Ming is probably goign to say these debates turn it into personalities over policy and Elfyn will complain they weren't allowed to be in the TV debates, with the statement saying one debate should of happend in wales, one in scotland and one in england.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

So what are the most recent polling numbers? I have to say I haven't been following the UK election as much as I'd liked to, only bits and snippets. Generally from an American Foreign Policy viewpoint (despite being a democrat) the party I'd like to win (from top to bottom) Tories, Labour, and LibDems. Ironically, I tend to prefer more conservative parties in power abroad (and even ones I'd never vote for) like say in South America, despite being fairly liberal myself.

Also from a historical view the British PM's clearly were Pitt the Elder and Lord Palmerston though I can't say with ease which was better.

 

[Varion]

Is Question time from Cardiff this week?

London. So I can't see the Cymru guy's comments getting much response.

 

[industrian]

Also Ming is probably goign to say these debates turn it into personalities over policy and Elfyn will complain they weren't allowed to be in the TV debates, with the statement saying one debate should of happend in wales, one in scotland and one in england.

As much as I support the SNP there's no reasoning for them or Welsh and Irish parties to be involved in the debates. They're irrelevant in these elections, whether they win 10-20 seats each or not.

I would like to see televised debates for the Scottish elections next year though. Hell yes.

 

[Sage00]

So what are the most recent polling numbers? I have to say I haven't been following the UK election as much as I'd liked to, only bits and snippets. Generally from an American Foreign Policy viewpoint (despite being a democrat) the party I'd like to win (from top to bottom) Tories, Labour, and LibDems. Ironically, I tend to prefer more conservative parties in power abroad (and even ones I'd never vote for) like say in South America, despite being fairly liberal myself.

Also from a historical view the British PM's clearly were Pitt the Elder and Lord Palmerston though I can't say with ease which was better.

The latest Ipsos/MORI poll shows the Tories and Lib Dems on 32% each with Labour on 28%. Though with our electoral system, that would leave Labour the largest party and likely the govt. would be a Labour/Lib Dem coalition.

Can I ask why you would like things to turn out the way you do? Is it because American conservatism is so extreme (or European socialism, if you prefer) that a British Conservative government is more in line with an American Democrat?

 

[Shanadeus]

http://my.yougov.com/commentaries/peter-kellner/could-the-lib-dems-win-outright.aspx

I have no idea if this has been poster earlier in this thread but I found it quite a good read and informative:

Such are the uncertainties of this election campaign, following last Thursday’s TV debate, that it is no longer outlandish to ask whether Nick Clegg could end up as Prime Minister.

The answer is probably no – I’d put the odds at 10-1 against – but longer-odds horses have won big races in the past. Much attention has been paid to the way Britain’s voting system is biased against the Lib Dems: they could end up with more votes than Labour or the Conservatives – but win half as many seats.

What is not appreciated is that the reason why this is so is also the reason why, once the party passes a threshold – around 38% - it starts to garner seats in massive numbers. With 40% they would probably have an outright majority, With 42% they win by a landslide. The main reason is that with, say 30-35%, they come second in a vast number of seats, but first in only 100 or so. But as they approach 40%, these second places start converting into first places; each extra percentage point yields them a barrow-load of seats.

One reason why the Lib Dems could, just possibly, achieve this is revealed by YouGov’s latest daily poll. We asked: “How would you vote on May 6 if you thought the Liberal Democrats had a significant chance of winning the election”. The responses: Lib Dem 49%, Conservative 25%, Labour 19%. On the – admittedly unrealistic – assumption of uniform national swing, there would be 548 Lib Dem MPs, 41 Labour MPs and just 25 Tories.

It won’t happen. But this question does show that if Nick Clegg continues to perform well in TV debates and voters regard him as a serious challenger, then Lib Dem support could rise further from the 30% or so that, all pollsters agree, it has achieved since last Friday.

What is more, far fewer people are deterred by the prospect of a Lib Dem government. We asked people whether they would be delighted or dismayed by different election outcomes – or whether they wouldn’t mind.

 

[Linkified]

As much as I support the SNP there's no reasoning for them or Welsh and Irish parties to be involved in the debates. They're irrelevant in these elections, whether they win 10-20 seats each or not.

I would like to see televised debates for the Scottish elections next year though. Hell yes.

It would be nice if the debates were more like Question Time next time. And maybe not even the leaders but the parties (shadow) cabinets instead.

 

[Sage00]

As much as I support the SNP there's no reasoning for them or Welsh and Irish parties to be involved in the debates. They're irrelevant in these elections, whether they win 10-20 seats each or not.

I would like to see televised debates for the Scottish elections next year though. Hell yes.

No chance we'll see Tavish Scott or the rest of the Scottish Lib Dems agree to that. All liberal values are thrown out the window when it could "maybe, possibly" result in a case for Scottish independence, like a referendum. It's amazing they even claim to be the same party.

 

[industrian]

It would be nice if the debates were more like Question Time next time. And maybe not even the leaders but the parties (shadow) cabinets instead.

A Scottish debate would take forever. We've got four main parties here, and I'm pretty sure the Labour and Tory guys wouldn't shut up and let the others speak.

 

[industrian]

No chance we'll see Tavish Scott or the rest of the Scottish Lib Dems agree to that. All liberal values are thrown out the window when it could "maybe, possibly" result in a case for Scottish independence, like a referendum. It's amazing they even claim to be the same party.

The independence issue would be a minefield of titanic proportions. Just ask Wendy Alexander.

 

[Sage00]

http://my.yougov.com/commentaries/peter-kellner/could-the-lib-dems-win-outright.aspx

I have no idea if this has been poster earlier in this thread but I found it quite a good read and informative:

This is a very good point and actually the basis of Charles Kennedy's election campaign back in 2005. They had a research company ask that question and then mapped out which constituencies they could gain if people voted, knowing the Lib Dems have a chance of winning. Here's what they came up with:

So that stigma has very much been with them a long time and is easily the biggest barrier to their success. With the majority of the papers keeping to the Red and Blue fences, I think it's still impossible to shake off.

 

[Shanadeus]

This is a very good point and actually the basis of Charles Kennedy's election campaign back in 2005. They had a research company ask that question and then mapped out which constituencies they could gain if people voted, knowing the Lib Dems have a chance of winning. Here's what they came up with:

So that stigma has very much been with them a long time and is easily the biggest barrier to their success. With the majority of the papers keeping to the Red and Blue fences, I think it's still impossible to shake off.

The system in place is absolutely ridiculous, any party with 30% of the votes should definitely be part of the government; here's the results of the Swedish election 2006 as a comparison:

V, Mp and S made up the socialist block and got a total of 171 seats in the parliament whereas the C, Fp, Kd and M alliance got a total of 178 seats. And the Sd was the only other party that got a seat in the "riksdagen" as they managed to snag 2.5% of all votes - which would make them eligible to team up with the other parties if they so wanted to (which none of the parties wanted to as the Sd are a racist tard party)

Alliance for Sweden (Swedish: Allians för Sverige) is a political alliance in Sweden. It consists of the four centre-right parties in the Riksdag. Although it was formed while in opposition, it achieved a majority in the general election of 17 September 2006, forming the current coalition government.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Can I ask why you would like things to turn out the way you do? Is it because American conservatism is so extreme (or European socialism, if you prefer) that a British Conservative government is more in line with an American Democrat?

That's pretty much it, it's in line with Moderate-Conservative Democrat and socially liberal, but strong on business/defense/small government Republicans (think of Barry Goldwater versus GWB). I've always said if the Republicans fielded more Goldwater type candidates, I'd actually vote for them. Then again with all the social conservative whacks they picked up they really don't need to try and win my vote. For the record, I don't include Far Right European parties. Still you can see why I also apply this viewpoint also to South America.

 

[Chinner]

Here is the original Clegg article about Germany.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/19/eu.germany

 

[Dabookerman]

Here is the original Clegg article about Germany.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/19/eu.germany

I agree with him. Germany in many ways has become a vastly superior nation than Britain, in terms of living standards and so forth.
Same with Japan. Japan has become the electric centre of the world.

And these countries not too long ago were the "axis of evil".

 

[SmokyDave]

Here is the original Clegg article about Germany.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/19/eu.germany

So that's why I walked into the newsagent this morning to be greeted by "Clegg Nazi Slur On Britain!". Bless the Mail.

Excellent article, fuck the haters.

 

[industrian]

Germany in many ways has become a vastly superior nation than Britain

Germany pretty much runs a train over the UK in every possible way. And that's even with the extra baggage of the DDR.

 

[iapetus]

Germany pretty much runs a train over the UK in every possible way. And that's even with the extra baggage of the DDR.

 

[industrian]

I saw that coming from a mile away.

 

[Chinner]

was greeted with this on my facebook page

not sure if i should bother pursuing with argument.

 

[Empty]

i would de-friend him if i were you.

but you have him evading your points already, so you could own him in public.

 

[SmokyDave]

Fake your own death and close your Facebook. It's the easy way out. If you're near a coastal area I'd advise you pull a Reggie Perrin.

 

[Chinner]

hes a huge eurosceptic, so i'm not surprised hes bringing it all back to the eu again.

 

[Mr. Sam]

We should have made Germany pay its war reparations in full, I guess. Y'know, so we'd either leave it a broken husk or have a damn good try at continuing military conflicts within Europe.

Your friend sounds like (s)he's been brainwashed by the Daily Fail.

 

[sohois]

So, before i leave for a few days i wanted to take this opportunity to say: I called it.

Whilst GAF is on the subject of the lib dems, I personally think that they'll become the dominant left-wing party

And the proof:
Con Lab LD
20 Apr 32 23 33
20 Apr 32 28 31
20 Apr 31 26 34

Now the polls might change, and in any case the results above would still leave labour as being larger than the lib dems, but it's still a pertinent point. Bow down to my political wisdom.