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UK PoliGAF: General election thread of LibCon Coalitionage

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M

MarshMellow96

Member
This personal dressing down of Clegg by the right-wing media has been absolutely deplorable. That said, it's hardly surprising when the person running the whole show has his sister shagging Thatcher's son...:lol
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
I'm very worried about the Foreign Policy debate tonight. Scrapping Trident and European co-operation are unpopular policies but, on the other hand, the Lib Dems didn't instigate two incredibly unpopular wars.
 
K

Kowak

Banned
Mr. Sam said:
I'm very worried about the Foreign Policy debate tonight. Scrapping Trident and European co-operation are unpopular policies but, on the other hand, the Lib Dems didn't instigate two incredibly unpopular wars.
Click to expand...

They just want us to join the Euro, which would have meant under the current economic crisis we would have been like Greece.

I wouldnt mind taking the Lib Dems seriously if they were not so excited about us joining the Euro.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Kowak said:
They just want us to join the Euro, which would have meant under the current economic crisis we would have been like Greece..
Click to expand...
so we would of been like Greece and none of the other countries in the EU that are doing fine?

They would give us a referendum on joining the Euro actually.
 
E

Empty

Member
Yes, because we a) would lie about the amount of debt we hold to get into a currency, b) are unable to even collect tax properly and c) don't have a AAA debt rating and one of the largest economies in the world. It's as meaningless a comparison as saying that if we didn't have the Euro we'd be like Iceland, if things had gone differently.

Mr. Sam said:
I'm very worried about the Foreign Policy debate tonight. Scrapping Trident and European co-operation are unpopular policies but, on the other hand, the Lib Dems didn't instigate two incredibly unpopular wars.
Click to expand...

I reckon Clegg could make cutting Trident into a popular policy if he presents it right. Talking about the massive cost, relating it to the deficit and the cuts needed elsewhere, mention the generals letter to the times from yesterday and reinforce the idea that they don't plan for unilateral nuclear disarmament, i think it could prove effective.
 
K

Kowak

Banned
Chinner said:
so we would of been like Greece and none of the other countries in the EU that are doing fine?

They would give us a referendum on joining the Euro actually.
Click to expand...

The UK and greece share the exact same economic situations, the only difference being that the UK managed to get out of it because it has monetary policies available whilst greece couldnt set its own.

I have no trust in politicians and referendums, across the three major parties.
 
G

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
Kowak said:
They just want us to join the Euro, which would have meant under the current economic crisis we would have been like Greece.

I wouldnt mind taking the Lib Dems seriously if they were not so excited about us joining the Euro.
Click to expand...


Lib Dems don't even want us in the Euro now, Lib Dem foreign minister said our economy is too weak to join in the foreseeable future, and that there would always be a referendum even if conditions are right.

He also said the Lib Dems will give the UK a referendum on EU membership if elected...if that comes out tonight it will ruffle some Tory feathers.
 
O

Omikaru

Member
The LibDems didn't say they'd give us an EU referendum if elected. They said they'd give us one if a constitutional matter of Europe arises.

Instead of having a referendum on every little EU treaty, they've just decided to go ahead and let the public vote on our membership in the EU. It's about the only LibDem policy I disagree with, mainly because it's a sinister kind of populism; if the public votes yes then we'll never have a say about what powers we hand over to the EU again (the matter would be "put to rest", so to speak), yet it also pleases the xenophobic, frothing-at-the-mouth angry Daily Mail readers who want us out of it completely on the shaky rationale that foreigners carry diseases or steal our jobs or something.

In my view, it's just a way of pushing the European agenda with one mandate, instead of tackling each issue head on.

But then, so long as the LibDems outline that in any EU referendum (i.e. it's all or nothing), then I guess it's okay.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Anyway, tonight's debate is about Foreign Policy, and I'm trying to think of the party leaders strengths and weaknesses:

Sub-themes: International relations; Afghanistan; Iraq; Iran; Middle East; UK defence; International terrorism; Europe; United States; Climate change; China; International Development

Brown:

Strengths:
His actions and leadership during the recession and all that shitz.
Close collaboration with US/EU.
Can't think of anything else
Action on climate change

Weaknesses:
Iraq
Afghan
Troops
Not doing enough and will be attacked for everything basically.

Cameron:

Strengths:
Anti-EU
Better support for troops
can't think of anything else

Weaknesses:
EU track record (joining homophobic group, voting against woman rights etc)
China gaffe
unwillingness to work with other countries
can't think of anything else

Clegg:

Strengths:
Critical of Iraq and Afghan
Wants to stop being American lapdog
EU (if he can spin it)
Trident (if he can spin it)
Willingness to do something about climate change

Weaknesse:
EU (using euro etc)
Trident
Right wing smears from today
can't think of anything else
 
E

Empty

Member
Obama wanting to work with the EU, but Cameron deliberately marginalizing us there by moving to his new fringe group of homophobes in the european parliament, is probably his biggest weakness. It leaves us pretty isolated in terms of foreign relations.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
12.02pm: #nickcleggsfault is now the top trending Twitter topic in the UK (it is meant ironically, in case you wondered). He is being blamed for Eamonn Holmes and for spilled tea on one man's desk.


This is absolutely the best riposte to today's attacks. Mockery as a response.
 
D

Dabookerman

Member
Omikaru said:
That's a very good response. It's small enough to be carried by the news, too.

I forsee a small dip (1-2%) in the polls, but so long as tonight's debate goes well I think Clegg will survive, heck, perhaps even benefit from, the smears.
Click to expand...

I think in general people don't like seeing a likeable underdog being attacked.
He has his supporters, and frankly, I think the biggest percentage of internet users support Nick Clegg. And frankly, the internet is the most powerful thing nowadays. Certainly not newspapers.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Dabookerman said:
I think in general people don't like seeing a(n) likeable underdog being attacked.
He has his supporters, and frankly, I think the biggest percentage of internet users support Nick Clegg. And frankly, the internet is the most powerful thing nowadays. Certainly not newspapers.
Click to expand...
I think this might serve to galvanise Cleggies support a little. We do love our underdogs.
 
O

Omikaru

Member
Chinner said:
currently twittering the truth about nick clegg
http://twitter.com/Chinnerschin
Click to expand...
I saw all your tweets cropping up on my feed a few minutes ago! :lol

As for a few interesting links, the first one is the Daily Mail headline generator, on a Nick Clegg special today.

My favourite one so far:
WILL NICK CLEGG HAVE SEX WITH YOUR PETS?
Click to expand...

The Torygraph are also on the back foot after all their smears have backfired.

"It's not smear, it's scrutiny" - Yes, carefully timed "scrutiny" to coincide with all the Sun, Express and Daily Mail "scrutiny", which also happens to be on the day of the second leaders' debate. Some good, unbiased "scrutiny" going on there.

Nick Robinson outlines the three potential alternatives to this morning's smears, whilst Michael White (someone who, admittedly, I find irritating) writes about how James Murdoch appeared unnannounced at the Indy's offices to complain about the advert.

The general consensus this morning is that the right wing press is rattled and childishly lashing out, judging by the more balanced reports the BBC are putting out. We won't know whether the plans work until polls later this evening/tomorrow, but I think that so long as he comes out on top of tonight's debate (he's still the favourite, but only slightly) then the shift in the polls could be positive.

Nothing would make me happier than finding out that the press can no longer influence public opinion so widely.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Has this been posted yet?...
24mrgxh.jpg


Chinner said:
buying this for smokeydave
Click to expand...
Cameron flavour please, matches my shiny balls.
 
B

Burai

shitonmychest57
Omikaru said:
:lol :lol :lol

Subtle. It's a statistical anomaly in the right wing media that, on bar charts, 31% looks more than 34%.
Click to expand...

It's a fucking beautiful thing too. Look at Cameron smiling versus Clegg's grimace and Brown's scowl. Also, the Labour bar is thinner to make it look like they have even less support, but they've thickened the Lib bar to make it look shorter. And that's before you mention the completely contradictory, contextless figures in the bottom right.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
Burai said:
It's a fucking beautiful thing too. Look at Cameron smiling versus Clegg's grimace and Brown's scowl. Also, the Labour bar is thinner to make it look like they have even less support, but they've thickened the Lib bar to make it look shorter. And that's before you mention the completely contradictory, contextless figures in the bottom right.
Click to expand...

The figures on the bottom right constantly change, they rotate through all the different opinion polls. The animation is that it shows the poll name, and then goes to the numbers, then to the next poll name...
 
NekoFever

NekoFever

Member
Wes said:
12.02pm: #nickcleggsfault is now the top trending Twitter topic in the UK (it is meant ironically, in case you wondered). He is being blamed for Eamonn Holmes and for spilled tea on one man's desk.


This is absolutely the best riposte to today's attacks. Mockery as a response.
Click to expand...
Heather Mills just fell over. Apparently it was nicked legs fault. #nickcleggsfault
Click to expand...
:lol
 
D

Dark Machine

Member
Empty said:
It's even more annoying that he's being smeared over something as reasonable and considered as this article.
Click to expand...

I agree, that article was actually a fantastic read. He mentions the Fawlty Towers skit "don't mention the war!", that was a thinly veiled critique in much the same vein as his article. Many British still have the mentality that gives truth to the portrayal of us as a tiny, backward bunch of islanders who aren't quite sure the war's over. At least with regard to Europe.

Having read this article, I must say once again I agree with Nick.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Fixed
Chinner said:
Clegg:

Weaknesses:
Critical of Iraq and Afghan
Wants to stop being American lapdog
EU (if he can spin it)
Trident (if he can spin it)

Weaknesses:
EU (using euro etc)
Trident
Right wing smears from today
can't think of anything else
Click to expand...

God the LibDem's winning would be on par with that awful Socialist win in Spain and some of those Ultra-Left wins in South America, with exception of Columbia and one or two other countries. Granted I have happy that Obama has proven he won't be bitch just because his party and the new party in power are both on the left (such as in the case of Japan currently).

I will say this it's nice to follow an election where the main issues are far more different than most American elections. I am also in love with the old school British smear attacks in Newspapers (I'm a history dork), it just feels so vintage. :)
 
R

Rubezh

Member
My 2p on the debate tonight: Brown and Cameron re-shift their attacks onto Clegg following his surge in popularity, Clegg continues to accuse them both of "old politics". Clegg wins more popularity points because of his policy against Iraq and Afghanistan, lumps Cameron and Brown together. LibDem numbers increase slightly, Convervatives increase even less than that, Labour stays the same or drops. Not expecting the same surge as last time.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Fixed


God the LibDem's winning would be on par with that awful Socialist win in Spain and some of those Ultra-Left wins in South America, with exception of Columbia and one or two other countries. Granted I have happy that Obama has proven he won't be bitch just because his party and the new party in power are both on the left (such as in the case of Japan currently).

I will say this it's nice to follow an election where the main issues are far more different than most American elections. I am also in love with the old school British smear attacks in Newspapers (I'm a history dork), it just feels so vintage. :)
Click to expand...

So you're pro-being America's bitch, pro-climate change and pro-Iraq/Afghanistan?
 
R

Rubezh

Member
These smears on Clegg are going to backfire. The British people are smart enough to realise these allegations are simply ridiculous, perhaps a Con/Lab conspiracy.
 
G

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
Rubezh said:
These smears on Clegg are going to backfire. The British people are smart enough to realise these allegations are simply ridiculous, perhaps a Con/Lab conspiracy.
Click to expand...


:lol good one.
 
E

Empty

Member
Is Clegg having an Obama style influence on turnout, energizing groups with traditionally lower turnouts (the young), or is this just the result of the tightness of this election and a general desire for change? I think the latter more of a factor than the former, but the age group part is encouraging, and i've talked before about how the postal votes can help the lib dems.


The number of people registering to vote has increased markedly, adding a new generation of voters to the electorate and making the outcome of the election even more volatile, according to a survey of marginal constituencies conducted by the Guardian.

Figures collected from more than 20 of the most marginal areas following Tuesday's deadline to register to vote indicate across-the-board increases in the electorate, compared with the last general election, suggesting that turnout could soar on May 6.

In one area, the increase is as high as 17%, and there are also indications of a dramatic surge in people requesting postal votes.

The volume of postal vote requests doubled in some areas compared with 2005, putting electoral administration systems under pressure and raising new concerns about postal vote fraud and the extent to which parties are manipulating the system to boost their vote.

Candidates in three separate areas told the Guardian that postal votes were central to their campaign. One said they had redoubled their efforts to sign people up for postal votes as the margins between the parties tightened and the prospect of a hung parliament and a second election this year grew ever more likely.

The Liberal Democrats could benefit disproportionately from the boost in numbers and postal votes. The Electoral Commission has said that those expressing an interest in registering were disproportionately in the youngest age bracket of 18-24 – the same group that recent polls show backing the Lib Dems. Previous trends show that people who use a postal vote send it quickly after they receive it meaning that millions of people will be voting in the next week when the party is still high in the polls on the back of the first TV debate.
...
Some 500,000 registration forms were downloaded from the Electoral Commission website and 50,000 calls were made to a registration helpline. A survey of visitors to the website found that 40% were aged 18-24.
Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/22/surge-voter-registration-election-volatile
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
God the LibDem's winning would be on par with that awful Socialist win in Spain and some of those Ultra-Left wins in South America, with exception of Columbia and one or two other countries.
Click to expand...

That's a rather American attitude. Conversely, both America's main parties are pretty right wing to us.

I will say this it's nice to follow an election where the main issues are far more different than most American elections. I am also in love with the old school British smear attacks in Newspapers (I'm a history dork), it just feels so vintage. :)
Click to expand...

I prefer the American way of doing things - TV ads: "this guy's a liar, this guy's great." Direct, like real men. Cameron getting Murdoch to do his dirty work for him, pfft.
 
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