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UK PoliGAF |OT3| - Strong and Stable Government? No. Coalition Of Chaos!

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H

Huw_Dawson

Member
Spuck-uk said:
We've been over the Royal Mail fiasco already

The only, very brief time I've seen Cable even mentioned in the news was his baffling attack on an imagined ”irrational cult of youth" in politics.

Edit: Well good news about the legalisation policy Huw, that's probably worth more than a few votes, and something I really wish other parties would adopt.
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We have been over the RM story, but that's one story in a quite large set of things he was up to in cabinet, and everything he did prior like consistently warn about the financial crisis. He's more of a voice on economic matters than I'd say most in Labour or the Tories are right now.

But he's actually been mentioned quite a bit in the news recently. His ascension to leadership aside he's been interviewed quite a few times, he's talked to the press a bunch at general meetings and he's shown up on Sunday morning politics programming too. I think he's doing a better job than Farron managed, but we can't expect miracles from 7.4% of the vote and 12 MPs

Ultimately his job is to keep the ship steady and build on Farron's work in getting the party back on its feet. Hopefully there are good opportunities presented via by-elections and major policy decisions for us to cut through.

At the moment though the main stories are the Tory civil war, which they're trying to curtail, and Labour's internal policy discussions, retreats and whatnot. Those topics will be what dominates in the papers. In the meantime Cable and the rest of the leadership team will probably be getting on with hard-headed strategy talk, policy, the semi-complete rebranding work, and other stuff that a political party needs to fight a snap election next year.
 
A

Acorn

Member
Coriolanus said:
Tbf Cable exudes competence wrt the economy in exactly the same manner that Blair exuded wrt using the military.

:D

Optixs tho
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you can basically write off any left leaning votes too with Cables embrace of orange bookers soon as he got a nice pointless post and jag.
 
A

Acorn

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
We have been over the RM story, but that's one story in a quite large set of things he was up to in cabinet, and everything he did prior like consistently warn about the financial crisis. He's more of a voice on economic matters than I'd say most in Labour or the Tories are right now.

But he's actually been mentioned quite a bit in the news recently. His ascension to leadership aside he's been interviewed quite a few times, he's talked to the press a bunch at general meetings and he's shown up on Sunday morning politics programming too. I think he's doing a better job than Farron managed, but we can't expect miracles from 7.4% of the vote and 12 MPs

Ultimately his job is to keep the ship steady and build on Farron's work in getting the party back on its feet. Hopefully there are good opportunities presented via by-elections and major policy decisions for us to cut through.

At the moment though the main stories are the Tory civil war, which they're trying to curtail, and Labour's internal policy discussions, retreats and whatnot. Those topics will be what dominates in the papers. In the meantime Cable and the rest of the leadership team will probably be getting on with hard-headed strategy talk, policy, the semi-complete rebranding work, and other stuff that a political party needs to fight a snap election next year.
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I don't think the political ground is a boon to anyone as Trump and brexit show shit things don't always make sense.
 
A

Acorn

Member
*Splinter said:
Corbyn will have the left leaning votes on lock, but there are plenty of moderate Labour voters as well.
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Most of those voters got on board come voting time.

Even moderates found something they like in the manifesto to vote for, don't forget they hate tories every bit as much as left labour. Different policy conclusions.
 
M

Maledict

Member
To be fair, that's because the manifesto wasn't as crazy radical as you might have presumed. LEader Corbyn has definitely toned down some of the edges and more shocking policy proposals he had as a back bencher. Plus at the time he had the illusion of being pro-EU, which is rapidly dropping away.
 
A

Acorn

Member
Maledict said:
To be fair, that's because the manifesto wasn't as crazy radical as you might have presumed. LEader Corbyn has definitely toned down some of the edges and more shocking policy proposals he had as a back bencher. Plus at the time he had the illusion of being pro-EU, which is rapidly dropping away.
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Doesn't really change the ground for libs they went all in on brexit and failed by Farrons own admission.

The manifesto is pretty radical in 2017 compared to recent leaders but you can make that argument as it isn't totally without merit. Quietly getting lab moderates on board with the manifesto was the biggest win of the election.

It's little mentioned too for some reason.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
It probably also helped that Labour voters were staring down the barrel of a potential 100+ Tory Majority. That would have likely focused minds and had moderate/right leaning Labour voters voting for Corbyn's Labour just to prevent the party being annihilated, or to hopefully stop a Tory landslide.

With that out of the picture, there's more of an opportunity for Vince Cable to get their votes. Though that does depend on getting into the news coverage and what have you, and if the Tories to descend into a lovely civil war this summer, they'll struggle to get noticed.
 
M

Maledict

Member
I mean, I agree its radical compared to previous manifestos - I just dont think it's as lunatic as the press made out beforehand, and I don't think its that far to the left of a lot of people both in and out of the Labour Party. Nationalizing the rail service is a very popular policy full stop for example. And some of what Corbyn has spoken about in the past is far more extreme than the manifesto.

Re Europe, I think ther lib push failed for a number of reasons. Number one was simply Farron - unlike Corbyn, he wasn't rehabilitated by the campaign, came across terribly, and stumbled at the first block due to his offensive, bigoted views. I also think that labour successfully appearing as the party of "everything to everyone" when it comes to Brexit meant people who were very pro-europe still felt safe voting for them. Others have pointed this out, but ultimately there isn't that much difference between labour and the conservatives brexit stance when you get down to the details because both of them are talking about impossibilities. The main differences is in attitude more than anything.
 
A

Acorn

Member
Uzzy said:
It probably also helped that Labour voters were staring down the barrel of a potential 100+ Tory Majority. That would have likely focused minds and had moderate/right leaning Labour voters voting for Corbyn's Labour just to prevent the party being annihilated, or to hopefully stop a Tory landslide.

With that out of the picture, there's more of an opportunity for Vince Cable to get their votes. Though that does depend on getting into the news coverage and what have you, and if the Tories to descend into a lovely civil war this summer, they'll struggle to get noticed.
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He's pretty tainted by govt.

I don't think the Lib dems will win back Charles Kennedy's base too, i don't think they even want to anyway.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Fwiw, since we're spitballing the many reasons why labour performed better than expected (and what may come of it), i do seem to recollect that one thing that played *quite* well with Leave voters was the anti-austerity angle, partially because apparently a sizable amount was so daft that they thought that voting leave = voting against austerity. LibDems most likely aint touching that "moderate" lot either, especially since the tories have already started loosening the purse strings again.

I sure wouldnt want to run to the right of the tories when it comes to economic decisions >_>

Ahh here's the article i had in mind.
 
A

Acorn

Member
Coriolanus said:
Fwiw, since we're spitballing the many reasons why labour performed better than expected (and what may come of it), i do seem to recollect that one thing that played *quite* well with Leave voters was the anti-austerity angle, partially because apparently a sizable amount was so daft that they thought that voting leave = voting against austerity. LibDems most likely aint touching that "moderate" lot either, especially since the tories have already started loosening the purse strings again.

I sure wouldnt want to run to the right of the tories when it comes to economic decisions >_>

Ahh here's the article i had in mind.
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They'd jump back in in with them given half a chance.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Theonik said:
So what's your opinion of the Beeching Axe?
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I have literally no opinion on the Beeching cuts. Isn't it over 50 years old at this point?

Edit: In other news, how had I never seen this before?

Bell-Ring-Fail-London-Olympics.gif
 
C

CTLance

Member
Beefy said:
Ergh
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Look at it this way: If you guys can probably-hard-Brexit on the back of a tiny voting majority of a fraction of your populace, then you can wholeheartedly accept LGBT people into your life based on that much more solid majority. Think positive! :D
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
It's been a slow news week. Even the ministers and shadow ministers saying entirely contradictory things in relation to the long term future of our country has a lazy, Sunday afternoon feeling to it.
 
H

Horsefly

Member
TimmmV said:
True, but just because it could be worse doesn't mean it shouldn't be much better either

It's 2017. 34% thinking gay sex isn't natural and 32% disapproving of gay men becoming parents is still way too high
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I guess the statistic needs to be qualified by how many of these people would do something to oppose it.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
I wouldnt say there's daily rumors of her being overthrown now, but it certainly was a while back and has quietened down. But yeah, certainly not strong, nor stable.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Roberto Larcos said:
Near daily.

Here's yesterday's.
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that article has some wonderful bits, such as
Rees-Mogg is significant not just because he is a Brexiteer but because this week one bookmaker named him the second favourite – after David Davis, the Brexit Secretary – to succeed May as Conservative leader.

This was an early touch of sillyseasonitis, because at the time of writing he is fourth behind Davis, Boris Johnson and Hammond. Rees-Mogg, who is almost posh enough to be one of Jeremy Corbyn’s advisers, would be the novelty-celebrity candidate on the model of Corbyn himself, unthinkable but authentic. It would be unwise to rule out the possibility of him as leader, but the main significance of the story is that it draws attention to the thinness of the field for a Conservative leadership election that everyone thinks will be held in the next few years.
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i'd pay good money to see Corbo going against Ress-Fucken-Mogg in the next election. Legit a dream match.

Aaaand

Which brings us to Hammond’s weaknesses. One of his colleagues says: “He has such a tin ear, he’ll probably overplay his hand somewhere.” His problem is not just that he is tactless, but that he was naive enough to think he could say such colourful things in Cabinet and expect them not to be reported (as for “driving a train is so easy even a woman could do it”, he says he didn’t say it: he was criticising the unions for male-biased recruitment as an aside from saying train drivers were overpaid because their jobs were so easy).

But if he avoids insulting public servants and manages to balance the nation’s books while keeping the economy going through Brexit, he could be well placed to succeed Theresa May.
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Spoilers: he wont... and he also wont.
 
S

Socivol

Member
That makes me so happy. I only hope the US can follow in your footsteps and take one or both of the houses of Congress from the Republicans so are can have our own coalition of chaos.
 
W

WhateverItTakes

Banned
Coriolanus said:
that article has some wonderful bits, such as


i'd pay good money to see Corbo going against Ress-Fucken-Mogg in the next election. Legit a dream match.

Aaaand


Spoilers: he wont... and he also wont.
Click to expand...

My mate from school's gone down the internet right rabbit hole and he's now for a membership to the conservative party. Says he joined to vote for the next party leader / PM and he really likes Rees Mogg.

He was pretty pro Corbyn a year or so ago as well. I guess friends shouldn't let friends go near the poison alt-right field.
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
The Daily Telegraph went full North Korea:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/29/left-will-continue-resurgence-long-many-go-university/

The Left will continue its resurgence so long as too many go to university
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The contention is that once young people realise that the bribes will never materialise, they will vote for a party honest about the disastrous long-term state of the public finances. But it is far more likely is that they’ll continue their march Left, unless we address a problem that anyone who believes in aspiration will be squeamish about tackling: too many go to university.
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Tony Blair’s target of getting 50 per cent into university was a pernicious exercise in social engineering.
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Institutions once at the vanguard of liberal thought have also succumbed to a kind of intellectual Stalinism, influencing the politics of professors and students. Just 7 per cent of academics voted Tory in the last election, with more than 80 per cent backing Left-wing parties. Vast quantities of research is produced, much of it never cited again, and yet the number of Tory‑supporting academic historians, for example, is vanishingly small.
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The solution lies partly in creating a proper market in education, which to the Government’s credit is beginning to happen.
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There are currently only a tiny number of fully private higher education institutions in Britain. Unless we have more to compete with the Left-dominated incumbents, universities will continue to be factories for Corbynites.
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Damn those educated elitist snobs.
 
P

Protome

Member
Jackpot said:
The Daily Telegraph went full North Korea:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/29/left-will-continue-resurgence-long-many-go-university/


Damn those educated elitist snobs.
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Seriously. Maybe the question they should be asking shouldn't be "What's wrong with educated people that makes them not vote for Tories?" but should be "What's wrong with the Tory party's policies to make them push away intellectuals?"

The issue isn't too many people are being indoctrinated to liberalism in uni, it's that they're being educated and as a result can see through a manifesto built on bullshit. The argument of "Labour's sums don't add up" doesn't work when you've been peddling the economic equivelant of Scientology for the past few years.
 
W

Wrestlemania

Banned
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...act-conservatives-poisons-board-a7856041.html

The Government ignored expert advice and made changes in 2015 that made it easier to buy dangerous acids that have been used in a spate of attacks in recent weeks, The Independent can reveal.

Changes made in the Deregulation Act 2015 scrapped an obligation on sellers of dangerous substances, including acids, to be registered with their local council. The move was opposed by medical experts, who warned that it could make it easier for criminals to get their hands on highly toxic substances, and by the Government’s own advisory board on the regulation of hazardous chemicals.

Ministers boasted at the time about “cutting red tape” but are now under mounting pressure from MPs and campaigners to re-tighten laws to make it harder for people to get their hands on highly concentrated acids. It comes after dozens of people were injured in a spate of acid attacks, with London being particularly affected by the incidents.
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Great!
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Protome said:
Seriously. Maybe the question they should be asking shouldn't be "What's wrong with educated people that makes them not vote for Tories?" but should be "What's wrong with the Tory party's policies to make them push away intellectuals?"

The issue isn't too many people are being indoctrinated to liberalism in uni, it's that they're being educated and as a result can see through a manifesto built on bullshit. The argument of "Labour's sums don't add up" doesn't work when you've been peddling the economic equivelant of Scientology for the past few years.
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I wonder...
If we extend that approach to other areas, we should also inquire why so goddamn many old farts vote tory no matter what. Cuz the current answer seems to be "because they really goddamn like otherism", and that might be a tad simplistic.

Of course, if we took their approach to the uni prob to solve the old fart prob, that'd mean enhancing the speed at which old people die. Or, as the article puts, preventing them from becoming old in the first place :D
 
B

berzeli

Banned
Not sure if I perhaps should post a separate thread, but what the actual fuck is wrong with your newspapers?
The Sunday Times has been accused of antisemitism after it published an article in its Irish edition that suggested the BBC presenters Claudia Winkleman and Vanessa Feltz were well paid because they are Jewish.

Under the headline “Sorry ladies, equal pay has to be earned”, Myers wrote: “I note that two of the best-paid women presenters in the BBC – Claudia Winkleman and Vanessa Feltz, with whose, no doubt, sterling work I am tragically unacquainted – are Jewish. Good for them.

“Jews are not generally noted for their insistence on selling their talent for the lowest possible price, which is the most useful measure there is of inveterate, lost-with-all-hands stupidity. I wonder, who are their agents? If they’re the same ones that negotiated the pay for the women on the lower scales, then maybe the latter have found their true value in the marketplace.”

Myers has previously written, in the Irish Independent: “There was no holocaust (or Holocaust, as my computer software insists) and six million Jews were not murdered by the Third Reich. These two statements of mine are irrefutable truths.”
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And that's The Sunday Times, not just a scum tabloid.

Sure they fired him now, but how the fuck did that make it to print? Actually how the fuck is he still employed after denying the fucking holocaust?
 
T

TomWaitsForNoMan

Banned
berzeli said:
Not sure if I perhaps should post a separate thread, but what the actual fuck is wrong with your newspapers?

And that's The Sunday Times, not just a scum tabloid.

Sure they fired him now, but how the fuck did that make it to print? Actually how the fuck is he still employed after denying the fucking holocaust?
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It's fine to be racist if you're right wing and established in the media. The British press is riddled with people who've made careers out of it, from Katie Hopkins to Taki, who's an outright Golden Dawn supporting Neo-Nazi who still has a regular column in the supposedly respectable Spectator. They're usually called "controversial" or "provocateurs" rather than the more accurate "racist pieces of shit". That sort of sentiment is reserved for racists, or people labelled as racist, on the left, who should be cut out of the political sphere entirely. Any attempt to marginalise right wing racists though is an authoritarian affront to democracy and the spirit of free debate etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseam
 
Spuck-uk

Spuck-uk

Banned
Protome said:
Seriously. Maybe the question they should be asking shouldn't be "What's wrong with educated people that makes them not vote for Tories?" but should be "What's wrong with the Tory party's policies to make them push away intellectuals?"

The issue isn't too many people are being indoctrinated to liberalism in uni, it's that they're being educated and as a result can see through a manifesto built on bullshit. The argument of "Labour's sums don't add up" doesn't work when you've been peddling the economic equivelant of Scientology for the past few years.
Click to expand...

The Tory party cannot fail, it can only BE failed

-A Telegraph editor, probably.
 
T

TimmmV

Member
Wrestlemania said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...act-conservatives-poisons-board-a7856041.html



Great!
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Also from that article:
The changes made in 2015 were against the recommendations of the Poisons Board, a panel of experts established to advise ministers on regulating the trade in dangerous substances, who favoured tightening, rather than weakening, regulations so that high concentrations of acid could be sold only by licensed pharmacists.

However, ministers ignored the advice and used the Deregulation Act to completely abolish the Poisons Board.
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The love that the right have for deregulation for the sake of deregulation is infuriating

It goes well with that Telegraph link too - the press love to harp on about "Comrade Corbyn", and how the left are trying to insidiously take over, but in the meantime they're doing whatever the fuck they want and smearing/cutting any experts/academics who dare disagree with them
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
Protome said:
Seriously. Maybe the question they should be asking shouldn't be "What's wrong with educated people that makes them not vote for Tories?" but should be "What's wrong with the Tory party's policies to make them push away intellectuals?"

The issue isn't too many people are being indoctrinated to liberalism in uni, it's that they're being educated and as a result can see through a manifesto built on bullshit. The argument of "Labour's sums don't add up" doesn't work when you've been peddling the economic equivelant of Scientology for the past few years.
Click to expand...

"Make people dumber so we can keep lying to them."

The Right are in panic mode.
 
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