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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.

G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
jas0nuk said:
Have you read Raydeen's post? I'm sure it isn't the only example. FJF creates temporary non-jobs which waste taxpayer's money when we should be looking at addressing LONG TERM unemployment problems.
Click to expand...

how about start by making blatently exploititive long term unpaid internships illegal? it's a royal pita getting anything more stable in certain industries than barrel-scraping freelancing when the vast majority of (what would be) 17-22k jnr positions are farmed out to privileged types who already have an angel on their shoulders ready to pay their way to experience (try living in london on travel expenses and lunch money). and i know more of one case where those taking long term unofficial internships are secretly subsidizing their existence with benefits. what boils smokey dave's blood more, paying out timmy toothless's piss money every week, or paying out so some hoxton new media startup can carve an extra 20k in profits?

i understand this is systematic of an excessive glut of people who wasted their uni time with various popular degrees, but the way some of the companies milk the situation is pretty fucked up. i've seen unpaid positions that ask for more qualifications, package experience and time commitment than mid level bbc jobs. all for something that "does not guarantee future employment".
 
J

jas0nuk

Member
Garjon said:
Link to the bolded?

Yeah, you're probably right. Which is exactly what the Tories/Lib Dems are failing to do. But then, how exactly would you stimulate private sector growth while avoiding the negative points of the FJF?
Click to expand...

I spotted it in this article http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...xtends-youth-unemployment-pledge-1926569.html
Ben Robinson, chairman of campaign group Youth Fight for Jobs, said: "This Budget offered very little for young people. Merely extending the young persons guarantee is a slap in the face for our generation. It was recently uncovered that the Government counts as a job four weeks on minimum wage.
Click to expand...

It's probably in the official DWP PDF files but I haven't looked through them properly. I'm sure the Independent check their sources though.

As for encouraging growth, I think they have made a start by cutting corporation tax for large and small businesses and avoiding the employer's NI contribution increase, not sure what else they have planned.

edit: ghst, yeah I think useless uni degrees are also partly to blame. Labour liked to play politics by saying "oh look over 50% of young people are going to university" by turning polytechnics into universities and allowing people to get into huge debt for nothing, which has been a significant part of the problem. We need to go back to a more traditional system of university for science, arts, etc, and polies for more practical degrees like mechanics. Watering down the university system with media studies and so on has been a disaster.
 
D

Dambrosi

Banned
jas0nuk said:
As for encouraging growth, I think they have made a start by cutting corporation tax for large and small businesses and avoiding the employer's NI contribution increase, not sure what else they have planned.
Click to expand...
A 1p increase in NI contributions would have been a tiny inconvenience for most businesses, but would have helped to reduce the deficit so much beyond that.

And just watch the government raise NI (along with VAT and other indirect taxes) anyway, when they find out that their cuts just aren't enough.

jas0nuk said:
We need to go back to a more traditional system of university for science, arts, etc, and polies for more practical degrees like engineering and mechanics.
Click to expand...
I do agree with this, though. Well said.
 
A

avaya

Member
Dambrosi said:
And just watch the government raise NI (along with VAT and other indirect taxes) anyway, when they find out that their cuts just aren't enough
Click to expand...

Even that won't be enough.
 
G

Garjon

Member
jas0nuk said:
I spotted it in this article http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...xtends-youth-unemployment-pledge-1926569.html


It's probably in the official DWP PDF files but I haven't looked through them properly. I'm sure the Independent check their sources though.

As for encouraging growth, I think they have made a start by cutting corporation tax for large and small businesses and avoiding the employer's NI contribution increase, not sure what else they have planned.

edit: ghst, yeah I think useless uni degrees are also partly to blame. Turning polytechnics into "universities" has been a significant part of the problem. We need to go back to a more traditional system of "university" for science, arts, etc, and technical colleges for more practical degrees like engineering and mechanics.
Click to expand...
Huh, I don't know quite how that'd work, the training alone could take up to half of that, unless that guy is referring to those who drop out after 4 weeks of working, but without proper statistics and research, that's still not a proper argument.
And I seriously doubt that the cuts will be large enough to stimulate jobs for even a small fraction of the unemployed, otherwise we'd be back to square one. The situation with the private sector isn't going to go away because of a few tax breaks, it needs a long time to get back to normal and cutting public sector jobs right now will make the situation worse with the increased numbers of people claiming JSA.
 
C

curls

Wake up Sheeple, your boring insistence that Obama is not a lizardman from Atlantis is wearing on my patience 💤
ghst said:
how about start by making blatently exploititive long term unpaid internships illegal? it's a royal pita getting anything more stable in certain industries than barrel-scraping freelancing when the vast majority of (what would be) 17-22k jnr positions are farmed out to privileged types who already have an angel on their shoulders ready to pay their way to experience (try living in london on travel expenses and lunch money). and i know more of one case where those taking long term unofficial internships are secretly subsidizing their existence with benefits. what boils smokey dave's blood more, paying out timmy toothless's piss money every week, or paying out so some hoxton new media startup can carve an extra 20k in profits?

i understand this is systematic of an excessive glut of people who wasted their uni time with various popular degrees, but the way some of the companies milk the situation is pretty fucked up. i've seen unpaid positions that ask for more qualifications, package experience and time commitment than mid level bbc jobs. all for something that "does not guarantee future employment".
Click to expand...

I find it funny that so many junior level positions require 2-3 years of specific experience towards that line of work. A graduate is going to be quickly stuck in a rut.

You are best off doing these internships in that field, getting some experience, making real life connections whilst on the dole if needs be. Shitty I know.
 
A

avaya

Member
If you believe offering corporation/income tax breaks will stimulate growth you've left planet earth a long time ago.

It is a sure fire way of very rapidly expanding the deficit and ballooning the national debt. Nothing more nothing less.

Jobs will come back by themselves, in the mean time government can try and help out in other ways.

A primary issue is lending to medium and small businesses. RBS are forced to lend as are/were Lloyds-HBOS. However the level they do it at is not enough.

The aftermath of the system's near collapse is that people are slowly realising that capital markets no longer fulfil their primary purpose of providing financing for business.

Michael Lewis described it best, these firms are parasitic in nature but they used to serve as useful parasites. Somewhere along the last 15-20yrs they've forgotten that.

Before the late 90s corporate finance/M&A used to be the jewel in the crown of the investment bank business. Yes there was still a conflict of interest present but the entire structure of these banks was focused around providing real world benefits (financing) with real money.

Post 1999 that is all in the bin, As an example, there are 7x more CDS' on corporate bonds than there are corporate bonds. Goldman today make more on paper money than they ever did from the old business. Barclays are also sniffing their way down that road, that huge balance sheet is going to be wasted propping up theoretical contracts which provide no benefit to society beyond a vague and theoretical "diversification" objective.

All of this is widely known, nothing is really a great insight. However it looks like the steps have not been taken in the US to correct this, some of the amendments were pulled from their FinReg bills because some senators knew it would pass. Ultimately if there is no international solidarity on these issues nothing will change. But I'm not surprised, these firms have so many lobbyists it would even make Halliburton embarrassed.
 
S

Salazar

Member
Raydeen said:
Well if that's 10k of Nu Media courses, good fucking riddance. I worked with a girl doing new media (3 year uni course)- final year she went back to study she literally studied for 3 hours a week - but sure had a shitload of new party photos everyweek in her Facebook. Science, Physics, Biology, Maths should all be core, free paid for uni courses, but anything artistic should be paid - sorry, but your either an artist for your not. Studying isn't going to make you any better.
Click to expand...

While we are scrubbing the limpet-like aesthetes from our shiny technologico-Benthamite workforce funnel of a university system, are the humanities going to incur your displeasure ? Can literary critics still get a whiff of funding ? Philosophers ?

I imply, and feel in my bones, that you should narrow your fire.

You are welcome to can any public funding for creative writing courses, though. Freeloading scum.
 
R

Raydeen

Member
Salazar said:
While we are scrubbing the limpet-like aesthetes from our shiny technologico-Benthamite workforce funnel of a university system, are the humanities going to incur your displeasure ? Can literary critics still get a whiff of funding ? Philosophers ?

I imply, and feel in my bones, that you should narrow your fire.

You are welcome to can any public funding for creative writing courses, though. Freeloading scum.
Click to expand...

I did see a screenwriting course - three year with one of the big creative colleges advertised recently. Cost a fortune (or a loan). Fuck that, they can make do with a copy of Syd Field's screenwriting book and a collection of scripts from Joblo.com :lol
 
R

RedShift

Member
OK I didn't actually watch QT in the end, my friend persuaded me to watch The Million Pound Drop instead. That was painful. How could someone not know Pussy Galore came before Octopussy, let alone Dr. Christmas Jones and Xenia Onnatopp.

I'll iPlayer it tomorrow.
 
E

Empty

Member
i'm trying to take a break from politics, i burned out during the election and don't want to think about it again for a while. sorry to see the thread flounder, though.
 
R

RedShift

Member
Looks like quite a fuss is being kicked up about this whole Campbell/Question Time thing.

A lot of people commenting on Sky seem to be actually suggesting the BBC was in the wrong for asking him to be on, really boggles the mind.

These are the most recommended
Posted by: WDS on May 28, 2010 11:38 AMI'm astounded that the BBC considered a liar in the shape and form of Alastair Campbell who was responsible for masterminding the country being led into an illegal war for which hundreds of UK servicemen unnecesssarily sacrified their lives, was offered a seat on Question Time. And the cheek of Gavin Allen who gets his fat salary paid by us, the BBC taxpayers, to defend this decision. Gavin needs to apologise for this or better still vacate the BBC while he still has a bit of reputation left.
Click to expand...
Alistair Campbell is the most poisonous of the Poison Party aparachiks and Downing Street made entirely the correct decision!

Where were the elected Poison Party Politicians??

Campbell needs to be brought to book for his actions in the last 13 years!!
Click to expand...
this new government have more important things to do that "play" with a self drainged metally flawed person of no significance, who still believes labour won the election.

A person who bullied and lied for 13 years and still thinks he is important. Campbell has had his 15 minutes of fame, now lets forget him.
Click to expand...


Don't let this thread die. Everyone make a pledge to post at least once a day
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
I pledge, Redshift.

I'm going to lobby the government to get to the bottom of what has happened to Chinner.

Missed last nights QT, intend to catch it on iPlayer later.
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
RedShift said:
Looks like quite a fuss is being kicked up about this whole Campbell/Question Time thing.

A lot of people commenting on Sky seem to be actually suggesting the BBC was in the wrong for asking him to be on, really boggles the mind.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wouldn't read too much into that.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
Empty said:
i'm trying to take a break from politics, i burned out during the election and don't want to think about it again for a while. sorry to see the thread flounder, though.
Click to expand...
How'd you get the flag?
 
D

Deadman

Member
David Cameron: Destroyer of worlds, the rich.

David Cameron urged his backbenchers and the rightwing media today to calm down over the government's plans to raise capital gains tax to 40%.

Cameron's remarks were made before his first big speech as prime minister, in which he called for a rebalanced economy with a greater role for manufacturing and a relatively smaller one for financial services.

Cameron made his speech alongside the business secretary, Vince Cable, who praised him for forming the coalition. The plan to raise capital gains tax is Cable's brainchild in his period as Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman.
Click to expand...



Full article
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Oh dear.Telegraph playing dirty i think.Outing David Laws and also revealing an expenses scandal involving £40,000

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8712383.stm

Is this a joke or not.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/26/ministers-red-boxes-travel-separately

Now ministers are being told they must travel to their constituencies by second class public transport, but for security reasons their red boxes must travel to the constituency separately in a private car. So when one minister, who cannot be named but whose identity is known to the Guardian, asked his private office in the past 24 hours if he could accompany his red box in the car to do some work, he was told this was not allowed under the latest rules on ministerial travel. As a result, he will be travelling several hundred miles by train to his constituency, where he will greet his red box.
 
E

Empty

Member
The whole 'secret gay lover' side of the story that the torygraph are playing up is pretty horrible of them, and it's a shame that Laws couldn't feel safe enough to come out freely, but he was very stupid here and his expenses meddling, as well as not being open about it before the election (though i do have sympathy for him not wanting to out himself, that doesn't invalidate this issue), is bad and really should cost him his cabinet seat. Which is unfortunate for the coalition, as he is pretty talented from what i can see, and a good bridge between the two parties ideologically, but if they don't make that step it torpedoes their whole 'new politics' message, as well as being bad form in general.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Some crazy right-wing people are loving this gay angle a bit too much.

"What a mess! Was Cable's resignation from Dep. Leader of the LibDems made with prior knowledge of this bombshell? Was he placing himself for Laws' job? Come on you Westminster Villagers; give us the facts. Once again the odour of a mixture of scented faeces and KY jelly pervades the corridors of power. Uggghhh!"


What the fuck is going on at the Spectator.
 
V

Varion

Member
Really shitty news, he was an important asset to the coalition and really one of the best people who could've got that job.

Fucking Telegraph.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Danny Alexander is now the Chief Secretary of the Treasury. (He was the Secretary of State for Scotland until now, Michael Moore has succeeded him)
 
C

cntr

Banned
Varion said:
Holy shit Cameron :lol

He's really defying expectations.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that the principle of Cabinet collective responsibility is probably in effect.(It's "members of the government must defend all government positions, regardless of their personal convictions")
 
D

defel

Member
Arent people blaming the telegraph here just playing to a double standard? If it were a Tory cabinet minister they would have had to resign as well.

Now we have two thirty-somethings in charge of cuts for the entire country...
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
Watching Ming Campbell on Andrew Neil's Straight Talk. The man is pure brilliance. Shame about the toothless morons that are the British electorate.
 
A

avaya

Member
It is a shame about Laws. It was his fault over the expenses but he wasn't doing it for money, that is quite evident. It is a great loss to the Treasury the man was the best person to go about efficiency savings and creating value given his very successful City career.

The expenses issue is getting out of hand. Forcing ministers to take public transport and shit like that is ridiculous given their security needs.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
avaya said:
It is a shame about Laws. It was his fault over the expenses but he wasn't doing it for money, that is quite evident. It is a great loss to the Treasury the man was the best person to go about efficiency savings and creating value given his very successful City career.

The expenses issue is getting out of hand. Forcing ministers to take public transport and shit like that is ridiculous given their security needs.
Click to expand...
To be fair, it's still pretty dodgy even when you take the "trying to hide his sexuality" line. I wouldn't let him off the hook.
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
avaya said:
It is a shame about Laws. It was his fault over the expenses but he wasn't doing it for money, that is quite evident. It is a great loss to the Treasury the man was the best person to go about efficiency savings and creating value given his very successful City career.

The expenses issue is getting out of hand. Forcing ministers to take public transport and shit like that is ridiculous given their security needs.
Click to expand...
Especially when - for security needs - their important documents are still taken about in fucking cars.
 
R

RedShift

Member
I'll admit it, I was watching the million pound drop again and didn't know about this until they mentioned David Laws resigning on that
damn contestants didn't know what party he was in, thought it might be UKIP even though it said it was a government minister, argh
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
I'm quite pissed off about this Laws thing. Would The Telegraph have gone after a straight Tory MP in the same position? I doubt it. I see why Laws has come under fire, the definition of spouse is vague, but he did nothing wrong and I don't think he ever acted with any intention other than to protect his privacy. Hopefully he will be cleared by the investigation and can return to government, because he was extremely impressive in these last few weeks. The only solace is that they didn't replace him with a Tory.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
avaya said:
It is a shame about Laws. It was his fault over the expenses but he wasn't doing it for money, that is quite evident. It is a great loss to the Treasury the man was the best person to go about efficiency savings and creating value given his very successful City career.

The expenses issue is getting out of hand. Forcing ministers to take public transport and shit like that is ridiculous given their security needs.
Click to expand...

He was rich enough to pay the rent himself, he could of rented a flat in his own name and his partner move in. He had many ways to arrange his private life, he just picked one that looked a little shady.It's sad but he could have avoided the whole situation.
 
A

avaya

Member
Yeah he shouldn't have been claiming jackshit in fairness.

Their claims should be means tested. Fairest way.
 
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