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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.

nib95

Banned
Boris embraces his class and doesn't shy away from it. He doesn't try to be down with the people. Its ironic but I think he gets away with it. The pasty example is a perfect example of Cameron trying too hard - that whole story about Cornwall Pasty Co. was so blatantly transparent it was cringe worthy.

I like Cameron and think he represents the better half of the Conservatives but he is beginning to piss me off. Id put the Lib Dems in there with him too.

But that right there is part of the problem. London is hugely diverse and the type of cloth Boris's type is cut from makes up but a small portion of London's wider demographic. The fact that he pushes in favour of that small demographic is not cool with me, and imo not good for the greater portion of London's population. I'd actually prefer a "for the people" type person, especially for London (the city I'm actually from).

Under Boris and under Cameron, the London I know has changed, and in many ways hit against the poorer communities at the benefit of the richer. My other half is one of the main events managers for a non profit charity organisation that works with lots of small organisations, clubs, youth centres, charities etc, namely involving youth. Many of them during the last several years have had cut funding or been eradicated altogether. Groups that otherwise were helping hundreds of youth and contributing to the local communities in London successfully . I don't expect the upper classes and elite to even understand, I doubt many have even spent much time in these communities or in these projects, unless they had to for the sake of their role or campaign.
 
Lol at Boris having the "best political antennae of any current politician". I'll have to strongly disagree on that one.

He got in to power the same reason Tories got in to power this time round. Mainly the recession, a global economic crisis which people needed to find blame for at a local and national level. I never said he was stupid either. I said he was a bit less intelligent than Cameron (who is obviously very intelligent). Being intelligent does not mean you cannot be a buffoon.

No, Boris is far, far more intelligent that Cammo. Of that there is little doubt. They are both supremely smart, but Boris definitely has the edge.

So the lefty metropolitan city that is London elected a Tory toff mayor born with a massive silver spoon at a time when unemployment was rising remorselessly. Boris got into power in London because he is a massive personality who people can associate with. The problem with Dave is that he tries to come across as squeaky clean but it is patently clear that he isn't, while Boris doesn't bother because he knows he isn't. He has a level of honesty that other politicians should strive for, that he is going into the London mayoral elections on a platform of ticket price rises should tell you more than enough about honesty. In any case, Ken was the odds on candidate to get a third term and is a banker bashing communist who lost to a Tory toff. Boris has a wide appeal amongst so many groups and it bears out in the polling, among Labour and Lib Dem voters Boris picks up 3/10 first preference votes while Ken gets just 1/10 votes of Tory and Lib Dem voters.

You might hate Boris (and I don't really get it, he has actually done a pretty good job and I love the driverless trains idea) but there is no denying his popularity with the people of London. When he came in Labour and other assorted lefties were going on about how he would destroy the city with divisiveness, when in fact I feel like London is stronger than ever. One last reform he needs to make is to the Met but that is no easy nettle to grasp.
 
Out of interest, what was Ed Milibands position on the similar surveillance laws which Labour wanted to introduce a few years back. Please don't tell me there was a record which indicates he supported it?

Signed the e-petition, as said for all the good it will do. Honestly, I can't see that many Tories outside the front ranks supporting it, it goes against 'freedom of the individual' and other ethics of the traditional Tory. A lot of Lib Dems will hopefully grow a spine and vote it down. Labour will go against it on principle of being the opposition before any ethical reasons.
 
Who cares about what Ed Miliband does?

Because it will make me laugh a lot if Ed goes off on a merry crusade against this new proposal, whilst in fact he supported the original Labour plans when they were in power.

Who is worse, Gordon Brown as Labour leader, or Ed Miliband? There's only one way to find out.....
HHfight.jpg


Edit, who am I kidding, Gordon Brown with his Glaswegian brutality would beat the shit out of Ed.
 
Out of interest, what was Ed Milibands position on the similar surveillance laws which Labour wanted to introduce a few years back. Please don't tell me there was a record which indicates he supported it?

Signed the e-petition, as said for all the good it will do. Honestly, I can't see that many Tories outside the front ranks supporting it, it goes against 'freedom of the individual' and other ethics of the traditional Tory. A lot of Lib Dems will hopefully grow a spine and vote it down. Labour will go against it on principle of being the opposition before any ethical reasons.

Voted moderately for laws to stop climate change. votes
Voted for removing hereditary peers from the House of Lords. votes
Voted very strongly for a wholly elected House of Lords. votes
Voted moderately against greater autonomy for schools. votes
Voted very strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war. votes
Voted very strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws. votes
Voted very strongly against university tuition fees. votes
Voted against raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year. votes
Voted very strongly for a stricter asylum system. votes
Voted a mixture of for and against a transparent Parliament. votes
Voted moderately against increasing the rate of VAT. votes
Voted moderately for automatic enrolment in occupational pensions. votes
Voted a mixture of for and against encouraging occupational pensions. votes
Voted moderately for replacing Trident. votes
Voted strongly for more EU integration. votes
Voted very strongly for equal gay rights. votes
Voted a mixture of for and against a more proportional system for electing MPs. votes
Voted very strongly for introducing ID cards. votes
Voted very strongly for allowing ministers to intervene in inquests. votes
Voted moderately for a smoking ban.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/edward_miliband/doncaster_north

So he would have been in favour.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Indeed, anyone who thinks Boris is stupid hasn't been watching and listening hard enough. I don't think he will be PM, and I also don't think these crazy laws will be introduced. I have been talking to more party sources and they say there is a massive, massive rebellion brewing over this in the Tory ranks and a lot of the 2010 intake are getting cold feet over supporting this bill as many are quite libertarian. I'm not even sure that a government three line whip would get a majority without opposition votes.

Even without a backbench rebellion I'm pretty sure it would not get through the Lords without amendments to ensure judicial oversight.

Guido Fawkes mischievously suggests:

The more Machiavellian-minded might suspect that the purpose of the proposal is for it to be dropped and thereby demonstrate that the government is listening to its backbenchers.
 

Dambrosi

Banned
There is no judicial oversight planned. Real time access to people's online data (including phone calls, possibly even recordings in almost real time) without any judicial oversight. Wide access for many government departments is planned. I have been talking to party sources who are seething about this stuff, spitting blood. Lib Dems aren't too happy about it either, some are ready to bring down the leadership and collapse the coalition over it. They don't want to be involved in it, they know Labour will do it anyway, but they don't want to be the party that turned Britain into a police state.

Oh come now, zomg - you know as well as I do that those who truly wield power in this country, the odious pricks who populate the endless bureaus and corridors of Whitehall, are the ones constantly "advising" their ministers to do this shit. Whether the Tories or Labour are in "power", it doesn't matter - these people want Order and to preserve their power at all costs, and they don't care how many of our rights they trample upon to achieve their goals.

We're going to need a revolution to clear them away, but this is Britain - that's not going to happen. So I'm gonna protect my online privacy as best as I can on my own, while the rest of the country turns into an Orwellian nightmare.

[/tinfoilhat]
 
Even without a backbench rebellion I'm pretty sure it would not get through the Lords without amendments to ensure judicial oversight.

Guido Fawkes mischievously suggests:

That's one of my main worries, the lack of judicial oversight. The worst part is that it seems to have been a complete afterthought. How can the invasion of people's private lives have absolutely no judicial oversight, who will protect the public from the power of the executive and persecution if the judiciary is locked out.

I truly despair that this kind of proposal came from any part of the government supposedly made of libertarians and liberals.
 
Baroness Warsi is number one on my hate-list

You can add Lansley, May, Cable, Spelman, Mitchell, Letwin, Willets and Gillan to that list. I would clear all of them out in a reshuffle and get Kwarteng, Patel, and a bunch of other 2010 intake in. This government is full of incompetents.
 

Yen

Member
You can add Lansley, May, Cable, Spelman, Mitchell, Letwin, Willets and Gillan to that list. I would clear all of them out in a reshuffle and get Kwarteng, Patel, and a bunch of other 2010 intake in. This government is full of incompetents.

I am angry at the mere thought of Louise Mensch's existence.
 

Meadows

Banned
I'm bored. My ratings for the cabinet so far:

CON Cameron: Decent statesman but tries to be all things to all people. Embarrased of his upbringing and has made a lot of mistakes in appointments (Coulson etc). 5/10

LD Clegg: Good statesman but has allowed himself to become a hate figure for those that don't understand his reforms. I like him a lot but I don't think he'll last the spring. Probably better suited to a Foreign Minister role. 7/10

CON Hague: Generally a good FM and a good head of MI6. Handled Libya relatively well and isn't getting drawn into Argentina's bullshit. 8/10

CON Osbourne: Generally a good economist but isn't doing a good enough job of selling his reforms to the British public. 6/10

CON Clarke: Been relatively quiet this parliament, dealt with the riot sentencing relatively well. 7/10

CON May: Terrible. How she is in a position as powerful as Home Secretary is beyond me. 2/10

LD Cable: Has been marginalised by his own party which is fucking stupid. He should be in the quad, not Danny Alexander (who I still like). Best Lib Dem politician by a shot. 9/10

CON Duncan Smith: Don't know really. Head of Dept. Work and Pensions but unemployment is too high and pensions are terrible in the private sector. 4/10

LD Davey: Not had enough time to decide yet. Huhne did a good job as Energy Sec. so he's got big boots to fill. 5/10

CON Lansley: Terrible. He's obviously had very little input in the NHS reforms and is about as useless at selling them as a trainee BT call centre slave. Will be thrown out in May's post-Apocaly...I mean post election reshuffle. 2/10

CON Gove: Looks inbred. Probably hates the state school system. Isn't consulting anybody before going ahead with reforms. Will probably cause a strike due to his ineptitude. Also a member of the religious right in the CON party and shouldn't be near our secular, multi-ethnic school system. 3/10

CON Pickles: Not too bad, I agree with a lot of the localism stuff and broadly support his efforts to devolve powers at city council level (e.g. elected mayors). Needs to do more to reform local politics. Needs to lose weight. 8/10

CON Warsi: Don't even know what she does apart from be a pretty stale attempt at bringing ethnic minorities into the cabinet. 2/10

edit, more:

LD Alexander: Probably decent at economics, not a great politician, although I suppose that's a compliment. 7/10

CON Gillian: Shouldn't be in the position she is. Fucking NIMBY cunt too with HSR. 2/10

CON Hunt: Olympic prep going well, but probably more down to Labour than him. 6/10

CON Maude: Don't imagine he'll make it through the spring either. Jerrycans will end this gentleman's career. 2/10

CON Mitchell: Quiet but does the job. Glad we're above aid for trade. Carrying on with Labour's policies. 6/10
 
The problem with the 2010 intake is that they're all Cameron ass-kissers, and a good chunk of them seem just like glory hunters, itching to get a ministerial post as soon as, instead of actually impressing as a back bencher and making your way up that way.
 
I'm bored. My ratings for the cabinet so far:

CON Cameron: Decent statesman but tries to be all things to all people. Embarrased of his upbringing and has made a lot of mistakes in appointments (Coulson etc). 5/10

LD Clegg: Good statesman but has allowed himself to become a hate figure for those that don't understand his reforms. I like him a lot but I don't think he'll last the spring. Probably better suited to a Foreign Minister role. 7/10

CON Hague: Generally a good FM and a good head of MI6. Handled Libya relatively well and isn't getting drawn into Argentina's bullshit. 8/10

CON Osbourne: Generally a good economist but isn't doing a good enough job of selling his reforms to the British public. 6/10

CON Clarke: Been relatively quiet this parliament, dealt with the riot sentencing relatively well. 7/10

CON May: Terrible. How she is in a position as powerful as Home Secretary is beyond me. 2/10

LD Cable: Has been marginalised by his own party which is fucking stupid. He should be in the quad, not Danny Alexander (who I still like). Best Lib Dem politician by a shot. 9/10

CON Duncan Smith: Don't know really. Head of Dept. Work and Pensions but unemployment is too high and pensions are terrible in the private sector. 4/10

LD Davey: Not had enough time to decide yet. Huhne did a good job as Energy Sec. so he's got big boots to fill. 5/10

CON Lansley: Terrible. He's obviously had very little input in the NHS reforms and is about as useless at selling them as a trainee BT call centre slave. Will be thrown out in May's post-Apocaly...I mean post election reshuffle. 2/10

CON Gove: Looks inbred. Probably hates the state school system. Isn't consulting anybody before going ahead with reforms. Will probably cause a strike due to his ineptitude. Also a member of the religious right in the CON party and shouldn't be near our secular, multi-ethnic school system. 3/10

CON Pickles: Not too bad, I agree with a lot of the localism stuff and broadly support his efforts to devolve powers at city council level (e.g. elected mayors). Needs to do more to reform local politics. Needs to lose weight. 8/10

CON Warsi: Don't even know what she does apart from be a pretty stale attempt at bringing ethnic minorities into the cabinet. 2/10

edit, more:

LD Alexander: Probably decent at economics, not a great politician, although I suppose that's a compliment. 7/10

CON Gillian: Shouldn't be in the position she is. Fucking NIMBY cunt too with HSR. 2/10

CON Hunt: Olympic prep going well, but probably more down to Labour than him. 6/10

CON Maude: Don't imagine he'll make it through the spring either. Jerrycans will end this gentleman's career. 2/10

CON Mitchell: Quiet but does the job. Glad we're above aid for trade. Carrying on with Labour's policies. 6/10
I'll do mine as well.

CON Cameron: Could do better. Is good with international politics and the foreign policy has been excellent. Poor on the domestic front, needs to be better involved and get a better grasp of the detail, needs a ball buster like Coulson back in to advise him. The new guy, Craig Oliver, seems like a foppish cunt of the public school/Oxbridge ilk, so he needs to go and a Coulson/Campbell like figure needs to come back in. 8/10 for foreign policy, 3/10 for domestic, combined score of 4/10

LD Clegg:Useless. I mean completely useless. He has made very little headway in pushing any kind of liberal agenda. This latest attack on civil liberties is a prime example of his uselessness, how a coalition that includes the Lib Dems and has a Lib Dem deputy PM can even contemplate introducing this stuff is beyond my understanding of being liberal. 3/10

CON Hague: Has done a good job. Libya was executed well, needs to do more on Syria, but still good. Has renewed our ties with the US very well too, I hear he was instrumental in getting Dave such a prime billing with the President. Like it or not, our relationship with the US is still the most important one we have, they are the number one foreign investor in the UK (and we are still the number one foreign investor in the US, by some distance too). 8/10

CON Osborne: Has done a decent job, but took his eye off the ball with the latest budget. It has got decent measures in it, but it was spun very poorly. It is time for Osborne to give up his dual role as Tory party strategist and Chancellor, I think he is a better Chancellor than strategist anyway. He may have been able to keep it going while not being in government, but being in government is 10x more time consuming than not. Also too reliant on a macro-economic improvement, needs to look at tax breaks for producers and creative industries. The latter has seen some movement which is great. 7/10

CON Clarke: Has had some poor ideas and some good ones. Mixed really... 6/10

CON May: Was doing well until this latest database wheeze, it looks like the Civil Service mandarins who have been pushing for this for the last 20 years have found their victim. Must do better or should face the chop. 1/10

LD Cable: Completely ineffective at BIS. He is the anti-business secretary and leaves much of the actual work of BIS up to the Chancellor from what I hear. MUST DO BETTER. 3/10

CON Duncan Smith: Doing a great job reforming the benefits system, but should ease up on the disability reassessment as doing it this fast will cause a lot of problems for people who are less able to defend themselves. Also needs to press ahead with the workfare scheme, get more businesses involved. My bank is interested but we won't commit until the government does. Should also look at work study qualification/training subsidies. 7/10

LD Davey: Has made a good start and the "blow" to our nuclear ambitions with RWE pulling out may be a blessing in disguise as it will give the government an opportunity to reassess the situation and give Thorium breeder reactors a better chance. ?/10

CON Lansley: Shit. 0/10

CON Gove: Awesome. Best minister by a country fucking mile. I was talking to my old headmaster on the old boys day and he was saying that they have just become an Academy school and it has allowed them to buy out expensive PFI contracts and invest the savings in more teachers and assistants. The decision to enforce a maximum 50% cap on religious school admissions of the defined religion is also good as it will help kids integrate better. 9/10

CON Pickles: Good job, but needs to cool down on the religious rhetoric. Shouldn't waste money on weekly bin collections, would rather have HMS Ark Royal up and running again. 6/10

CON Warsi: Awful, awful person who needs to be booted out of the party let alone Cabinet. 0/10

LD Alexander: Doing an excellent job at the Treasury, but must do better to root out spendthrift civil servants and needs to instil a culture of thrift within the public sector. Should look at introducing automatic budget cuts and stabilisers for departments which overspend on purpose. 8/10

CON Gillian: Useless, should have resigned over HS2. 1/10

CON Hunt: Did well to fight for the games industry and other creative industries in this budget, has done well generally 7/10

CON Maude: Should stick to his day job, though I don't blame him for his gaffe, should never have been let near a television camera. I blame the No.10 press office, they should know better. Has been effective in cutting back office spending and cutting out PFI schemes. 7/10

CON Mitchell: Fuck this guy. Fuck him. We spend £10bn a year on international aid which we don't need to. He is a worm. 0/10

Phillip Hammond: Tory party's very own Mr Fixit. Did a decent job at Transport but glad he is out as he was a massive point of resistance to airports expansion. 7/10

Justine Greening: Has done well to listen to business and reopen airports expansion. We need a third runway at Heathrow and we need to turn Manchester into a proper northern hub. She seems to realise this. 8/10
 

Meadows

Banned
If others could do this too I'd be interested.

Interesting list Zomg. Thought we would have had more agreements! Guess I'm not a Tory afterall ;)
 
If others could do this too I'd be interested.

Interesting list Zomg. Thought we would have had more agreements! Guess I'm not a Tory afterall ;)

I'll see if I can knock one out tomorrow. Won't be terribly high rating for anyone though, Hague is surprisingly good IMO but foreign secretary isn't all that hard to totally screw up on.
 
I'll see if I can knock one out tomorrow. Won't be terribly high rating for anyone though, Hague is surprisingly good IMO but foreign secretary isn't all that hard to totally screw up on.

I think David Miliband disagrees, torture, extraordinary rendition, sucking on Gadhaffi's cock etc...
 

Yen

Member
LD Clegg:Useless. I mean completely useless. He has made very little headway in pushing any kind of liberal agenda. This latest attack on civil liberties is a prime example of his uselessness, how a coalition that includes the Lib Dems and has a Lib Dem deputy PM can even contemplate introducing this stuff is beyond my understanding of being liberal. 3/10
This this this this this
 
There has to be something in the water in Downing Street and/or incredibly persuasive civil servants that make every government incredibly authoritarian...
 

SteveWD40

Member
Spooks will be shitting up the cabinet at the weekly briefings, lots of "this came close to happening, give us more powers or it will" and the like. Must be a fair few plots we never hear about, doesn't justify these measures though.
 
Massive services sector growth for March, the PMI survey says 55.3, giving a composite PMI for the month of 53.9 up from February's 52.8, it means that Q1 growth should be at least 0.3% wiping out last quarter's contraction (which I think will be revised upwards again, the ONS figures don't make sense). If one were optimistic, expectations of growth would be 0.8%, but that is dependent on ONS calculation of construction output growth which differs from Markit's method and it includes oil and gas output which likely decreased again on warm weather.

We will know whether oil and gas output has decreased next week when the industrial production figures come out. Manufacturing production should be up by around 0.5-0.6%, if industrial production comes in at 0.4-0.5% we should expect strong GDP growth for the quarter, but if it comes in at 0.1-0.2% then we are looking at 0.3% GDP growth.

On employment, all three main sectors of the economy recorded employment gains in Jan, Feb and Mar, so we should see the unemployment figures start to come down over the next few months as November is worked out of the system and Feb is added. In fact with November out (it looks like net loss of 100,000 jobs in Nov) the figure should be very positive, maybe even +90,000 depending on the Feb figure.
 
Massive services sector growth for March, the PMI survey says 55.3, giving a composite PMI for the month of 53.9 up from February's 52.8, it means that Q1 growth should be at least 0.3% wiping out last quarter's contraction (which I think will be revised upwards again, the ONS figures don't make sense). If one were optimistic, expectations of growth would be 0.8%, but that is dependent on ONS calculation of construction output growth which differs from Markit's method and it includes oil and gas output which likely decreased again on warm weather.

We will know whether oil and gas output has decreased next week when the industrial production figures come out. Manufacturing production should be up by around 0.5-0.6%, if industrial production comes in at 0.4-0.5% we should expect strong GDP growth for the quarter, but if it comes in at 0.1-0.2% then we are looking at 0.3% GDP growth.

When should this translate into more jobs being created than lost? That's probably the most important thing right now.
 
When should this translate into more jobs being created than lost? That's probably the most important thing right now.

Sorry, I edited that in afterwards:

On employment, all three main sectors of the economy recorded employment gains in Jan, Feb and Mar, so we should see the unemployment figures start to come down over the next few months as November is worked out of the system and Feb is added. In fact with November out (it looks like net loss of 100,000 jobs in Nov) the figure should be very positive, maybe even +90,000 depending on the Feb figure
 
Sorry, I edited that in afterwards:

On employment, all three main sectors of the economy recorded employment gains in Jan, Feb and Mar, so we should see the unemployment figures start to come down over the next few months as November is worked out of the system and Feb is added. In fact with November out (it looks like net loss of 100,000 jobs in Nov) the figure should be very positive, maybe even +90,000 depending on the Feb figure

Here's hoping...
 

SteveWD40

Member
Massive services sector growth for March, the PMI survey says 55.3, giving a composite PMI for the month of 53.9 up from February's 52.8, it means that Q1 growth should be at least 0.3% wiping out last quarter's contraction (which I think will be revised upwards again, the ONS figures don't make sense). If one were optimistic, expectations of growth would be 0.8%, but that is dependent on ONS calculation of construction output growth which differs from Markit's method and it includes oil and gas output which likely decreased again on warm weather.

We will know whether oil and gas output has decreased next week when the industrial production figures come out. Manufacturing production should be up by around 0.5-0.6%, if industrial production comes in at 0.4-0.5% we should expect strong GDP growth for the quarter, but if it comes in at 0.1-0.2% then we are looking at 0.3% GDP growth.

On employment, all three main sectors of the economy recorded employment gains in Jan, Feb and Mar, so we should see the unemployment figures start to come down over the next few months as November is worked out of the system and Feb is added. In fact with November out (it looks like net loss of 100,000 jobs in Nov) the figure should be very positive, maybe even +90,000 depending on the Feb figure.

I bet you all the money in my pockets, against all the money in your pockets, that if this is the case it will hardly make the news at all, it won't be spammed on forums, it won't be on the "Breaking" ticker and it won't be talked about at all.

The biggest thing holding back any recovery is the total negativity prevalent in the media right now, and as a result of that, in us. Everyone is terrified of saying "green shoots" and being made a fool of in a year if we double dip, much easier to say negative things and then look like a prophet if shit goes bad and you got lucky on your predictions (Cable).

and yes, that opening line was from the West Wing :)
 
I bet you all the money in my pockets, against all the money in your pockets, that if this is the case it will hardly make the news at all, it won't be spammed on forums, it won't be on the "Breaking" ticker and it won't be talked about at all.

The biggest thing holding back any recovery is the total negativity prevalent in the media right now, and as a result of that, in us. Everyone is terrified of saying "green shoots" and being made a fool of in a year if we double dip, much easier to say negative things and then look like a prophet if shit goes bad and you got lucky on your predictions (Cable).

and yes, that opening line was from the West Wing :)

Of course it won't. But when a think-tank (one which is usually wrong no less) comes out and says we are in recession it is breaking news all over the BBC and Sky, while the usual suspects are all over the internet crowing about it.

We talked ourselves into a Q4 contraction, lets see if we can avoid that fate for Q1...
 
How many times has Cameron tried to relaunch the BigSociety™ now?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2012/apr/04/david-cameron-big-society-live

I guess he needs something to distract from the stench of the last couple of weeks...

I very much doubt that a re-announcement of a tired policy will make much difference, if the government truly are going to u-turn on the snoopers charter then the poll rating will begin to improve, and if unemployment starts to fall then it will go up faster, but this Big Society rubbish will make no waves.
 

TCRS

Banned
I bet you all the money in my pockets, against all the money in your pockets, that if this is the case it will hardly make the news at all, it won't be spammed on forums, it won't be on the "Breaking" ticker and it won't be talked about at all.

The biggest thing holding back any recovery is the total negativity prevalent in the media right now, and as a result of that, in us. Everyone is terrified of saying "green shoots" and being made a fool of in a year if we double dip, much easier to say negative things and then look like a prophet if shit goes bad and you got lucky on your predictions (Cable).

and yes, that opening line was from the West Wing :)

Hehe, brilliant episode.

In other news:

Ken Clarke: US intelligence agencies are holding back evidence from Britain over fears of open courts

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...e-from-Britain-over-fears-of-open-courts.html

Secret courts in the UK? WTF? When will our politicians hold up our principles instead of pandering to the US? They have already given up their principles, we don't want to go down the same road.
 

Biggzy

Member
Don't know why Cameron is still championing this Big Society policy. If he can't convince his own party about it, what chance has he got for the population.
 
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