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[CyclopsRock]

Dorries getting suspended for running off and living in the jungle may be my favourite political story of recent times.

It's not an action that exactly screams "I care about my constituents." There aren't many jobs where you could reasonably fuck off for a month to the other side of the world, not turn up to work, and expect it to be fine.

Then again, we do have a problem in the UK of this sort of absenteeism going ignored. I guess it's the responsibility of constituencies to punish MPs that do that, but for example both Brown and David Miliband's voting records have been shocking this term. It's not about money, but their constituents, who are scarcely being represented. I choose those two purely because I know about them - I'm sure there are plenty of Tories (beyond Nadine) and LD's that do, too. Well, maybe not LD's - there are only about 5 of them to begin with.

 

[kharma45]

Mark Devenport ‏@markdevenport
Assembly votes to lower voting age to 16 by 51 votes to 29

Great
UUP voted in favour and so did a fair few DUP MLAs, AFAIK.

don't quite know how to feel about this.

 

[kitch9]

Leaving the EU would be a massive mistake, I'm with Nick on this one. We can't just jump in and out of the EU, if we decide to leave, we'll be out on our arses, isolated from our biggest export market and probably wanting back in.

I also don't think that the majority of voters are really eurosceptic, I think there's a mood of general opposition that has been drummed up by UKIP, BNP, Tories, etc. and that's mostly been based on xenophobia and lies, when you explain to most people all the good the EU does, they'll likely support it. in my experience.



no, fuck off. We put the dirty prisoners there for a reason.

We do have a trade deficit with the EU...... Its fair to say if we left they would still want our business...

 

[Visualante2]

No #pcc discussion?

Voted anti fascist begrudgingly. The independent candidate had some good experience but expecting Tories to win.

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

No #pcc discussion?

Voted anti fascist begrudgingly. The independent candidate had some good experience but expecting Tories to win.

Going to vote Lib Dem when i get home. I've no idea what chance he has but i'm not voting for any of the others that's for sure.

 

[Walshicus]

No #pcc discussion?

Voted anti fascist begrudgingly. The independent candidate had some good experience but expecting Tories to win.

No PCC discussion because 90% of the public are completely apathetic. The entire thing will be a shambles because of the lack of democratic legitimacy as a result of the low turnout.

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

No PCC discussion because 90% of the public are completely apathetic. The entire thing will be a shambles because of the lack of democratic legitimacy as a result of the low turnout.

I barely knew anything about it until the voting cards for the students next door were delivered to our address last week. I'm the only person in the house to get a polling card and i had no idea who they were or what this was about until a few days ago.

It's like someone wants it to fail. Or, i just don't watch enough tv.

 

[Psychotext]

My local labour candidate is the only one who has said that he'll flat out not privatise anything and will also look at contracts where things have already been privatised. Conservative refused to respond to the question. Independents were both a bit wishy washy on the issue.

I'll be voting later.

 

[CyclopsRock]

It hasn't been advertised well, but I don't think it'll be illegitimate due to low turn out. Let's seen what it is, but we have had MEP elections in the past with turnout in the 20's (%) and they, in turn, elect the commission. We are surrounded by democratic shortfall, but even 5% of the electorate choosing where the police concentrate their time is better than an unaccountable establishment figure, IMO.

 

[Visualante2]

I wonder if it's that bad this time, next time the anti vote movement can get their shit together for a spoil your ballot campaign. It would be the only way to show them that it's not wanted. Currently it feels like a waste when there's a chance English Democrats and BNP might get in.

It hasn't been advertised well, but I don't think it'll be illegitimate due to low turn out. Let's seen what it is, but we have had MEP elections in the past with turnout in the 20's (%) and they, in turn, elect the commission. We are surrounded by democratic shortfall, but even 5% of the electorate choosing where the police concentrate their time is better than an unaccountable establishment figure, IMO.

I think a lot of people see it as another way to defer the blame away from government for future spending cuts and privatisation. Have some fall guy who gets kicked out in 8 years (even if they do a fantastic job and the public wants to re-elect). Whole thing stinks of short termism that plagues current politics.

 

[mu cephei]

I just voted now. Apparently fewer than 50 people had been in to vote the whole day.

I nearly didn't bother, because the information about the candidates on the choosemypcc site was pretty dire and there was no way of knowing who would do a decent job. But the attitude of people at work when I asked them if they were going to vote was 'hell no! why would I do that?' which bugged me. Also a 38degrees email pushed me over the edge.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I wonder if it's that bad this time, next time the anti vote movement can get their shit together for a spoil your ballot campaign. It would be the only way to show them that it's not wanted. Currently it feels like a waste when there's a chance English Democrats and BNP might get in.

The BNP aren't even fielding any candidates, so I'd be quite surprised if one of them 'got in'.

I think a lot of people see it as another way to defer the blame away from government for future spending cuts and privatisation. Have some fall guy who gets kicked out in 8 years (even if they do a fantastic job and the public wants to re-elect). Whole thing stinks of short termism that plagues current politics.

Well, they'll only get blamed if they're actually in control of their budgets. My understanding is that they are given a budget and their role is to define how it's spent. Again, whatever the political aims of this (though elected PCC's have been a Tory pledge for some time now), someone has to make that choice, and I'd rather it were someone accountable to the people, even if only a handful actually care to take note. It's a handful more than none.

 

[Visualante2]

The BNP aren't even fielding any candidates, so I'd be quite surprised if one of them 'got in'.

Oh, well ED are. I saw the described in the same sentence, must've misread it. Their candidate is touting less political correctness which probably refers to arrests at their demos.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

LMAO, I'm watching the Manchester election and the Monster Raving yadda yadda got huge cheers and applause when their votes were announced, and the BNP got massive boos :lol

 

[SteveWD40]

LMAO, I'm watching the Manchester election and the Monster Raving yadda yadda got huge cheers and applause when their votes were announced, and the BNP got massive boos :lol

We love our gays / minority's around here.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

~12% turnout for the PCC election, but Cameron claims they will "have a mandate"? My arse they will...

 

[operon]

~12% turnout for the PCC election, but Cameron claims they will "have a mandate"? My arse they will...

Exactly its a disgrace

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Exactly its a disgrace

I was trying to work it out. Could we be looking at an elected official who only attracted the votes of ~3-4% (if that?) of their constituency?

 

[Visualante2]

'Oh well the Corby by election was low too, and nobody is questioning the validity of an MP' - some prick on the news

I was trying to work it out. Could we be looking at an elected official who only attracted the votes of ~3-4% (if that?) of their constituency?

Yes absolutely, 6 candidates fighting over a 10% turnout for the region. Worth noting that a fair few people were spoiling their ballots too. 3% of counted votes in Wiltshire.

LMAO, I'm watching the Manchester election and the Monster Raving yadda yadda got huge cheers and applause when their votes were announced, and the BNP got massive boos :lol

Oh so they were standing...

People chose not to vote, we are pretty apathetic and that's not their fault. It was badly covered in the press if anything.

Press taking issue with that, they claim they've done their part. Government focused too much on online thinking it would save money, grey vote couldn't check online. And apparently the telephone line was terrible.

 

[SteveWD40]

~12% turnout for the PCC election, but Cameron claims they will "have a mandate"? My arse they will...

People chose not to vote, we are pretty apathetic and that's not their fault. It was badly covered in the press if anything.

 

[Visualante2]

Tory got in Essex, very close with the experienced independent candidate. Privatisation ho'. Independent candidate has 1300 followers on twitter, tory has a mere 200. Shame.

Turnout 13%, won by 3600, 3400 ballots were spoiled.

 

[Jackpot]

People chose not to vote, we are pretty apathetic and that's not their fault. It was badly covered in the press if anything.

I think there is a difference between voter apathy and seeing these roles as a waste of time. Not every admin role is worth voting for. Beeb's analysis was pretty good.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20356910

 

[Psychotext]

If the vote yesterday was to choose between private sector (G4S) police and public sector police would more people have voted?

Because it was... it just wasn't advertised that way.

 

[Bo-Locks]

If the vote yesterday was to choose between private sector (G4S) police and public sector police would more people have voted?

Because it was... it just wasn't advertised that way.

I don't see what the commissioner has got to do with privatization. I don't think they were needed in the first place, and the elections were shambolic, but this has got nothing to do with privatization.

 

[Psychotext]

They control the budget, they control the chief constable... so yeah, it's got everything to do with privatisation.

 

[Saiyar]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20345196
As expected Labour tool Corby with a 12.67% swing from the Tories.

 

[Visualante2]

I don't see what the commissioner has got to do with privatization. I don't think they were needed in the first place, and the elections were shambolic, but this has got nothing to do with privatization.

They commission services and allocate the budget for the local area. If they think they can save by privatising services they probably will. Especially conservatives, given that they are already trialling private forces in Lincolnshire. BBC even interviewed my candidates asking what they think of privatisation to try and get them on the record before they start the job. That's part of the whole farce of this election, the candidates put up shit like "i'll be tough on crime" but not a single one of them pledged to not privatise, not to close stations etc.

 

[War Peaceman]

It is absolutely absurd that the Coalition introduced a new vote that used AV. Completely absurd. I couldn't believe it when I voted.

 

[Deadman]

It is absolutely absurd that the Coalition introduced a new vote that used AV. Completely absurd. I couldn't believe it when I voted.

Yeah this surprised me too.


I voted independent 1st and labour 2nd. Labour won my area so hopefully it wont be too bad regarding privatisation.

 

[i_am_ben]

Why does the UK hate Alternative Voting?

It's pretty awesome here in Australia.

 

[Empty]

It is absolutely absurd that the Coalition introduced a new vote that used AV. Completely absurd. I couldn't believe it when I voted.

or that the tories had these elections after campaigning against av partially on the grounds that it was expensive and nobody cared about voting changes when politicians could be focused on the economy.

nobs.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Oh so they were standing...

In the Manchester Central by-election, yeah. Not for PCC positions.

Btw the Man Central election had a turn out of just over 18%. Like I said, low turn out for the PCC's is not an issue specific to PCCs - there is a general malaise in the UK where people just don't have faith in the system.

 

[Deadman]

Why does the UK hate Alternative Voting?

It's pretty awesome here in Australia.

I dont think its hate specifically in this thread. Its just that after the last election there was a referendum on using the alternative vote and the tories heavily campaigned against it. It lost.

Then for this new PCC initiative, invented by the tories, they use the AV vote. Massively hypocritical.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I don't know if it's necessarily hypocritical - different electoral systems have benefits and drawbacks, and some of those benefits suit certain roles of elected offices more than others.

But more realistically, it was likely a concession to the Lib Dems - this is a coalition, remember. AV rarely, rarely benefits the Tories, especially on something (Law and Order) that is typically one of their stronger areas when it comes to public opinion. They'd do better with FPTP, and yet they didn't get it. I suspect it has a lot more to do with the political reality than any kind of "hypocrisy".

 

[Bo-Locks]

In the Manchester Central by-election, yeah. Not for PCC positions.

Btw the Man Central election had a turn out of just over 18%. Like I said, low turn out for the PCC's is not an issue specific to PCCs - there is a general malaise in the UK where people just don't have faith in the system.

My girlfriend lives in Man Central constituency. It's one of the safest Labour seats in the country and the outgoing Labour MP was voted in as the PCC. And you're right, this low turn out is indicative of a general feeling of apathy across the country. The swing in Man Central for the Lib Dems was massive. Their vote reduced by nearly 20% to levels not seen for over 20 years. New Labour is dead and we're currently getting fucked (with no end in sight) by the Cons and the Lib Dems. There is nobody else left to vote for. UKIP and a few other parties will mop up some of that apathy, but not much.

The Lib Dems in particular are going to be annihilated in 2015.

 

[Carl]

Had to laugh at the amazingly low voting turnout yesterday. Don't think anyone honestly gives a fuck about it.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The Lib Dems in particular are going to be annihilated in 2015.

Yup, I can't wait. Then the righty ones can fuck off to the Tories, the lefty ones can fuck off to Labour, and the tossers that run the party can get new jobs. I can't stand them as a party, the way they operate etc. On the biggest surge in public opinion they ever enjoyed (ie 2010) they still managed to lose seats. That's why I think Clegg actually made a politically expedient decision by going into coalition - sure, the party's fucked, but it's not like they ever did anything for the last 20 years anyway. They may as well have no existed - at least they get some crack at changing something at the moment (even if it's to just steer the coalition slightly less right than it would be as a minority Tory government) - which is infinite percentage more than impact than they've ever had before.

 

[Bo-Locks]

The swing for the Lib Dems in the Man Central constituency was -17.2%, down to 9.4% of the vote. The last time the Lib Dems got such a low % of the vote in that constituency was 1992. If that -17.2% swing was repeated across the country at the next general election, then just from scanning the Lib Dem seats and their majorities on wikipedia, the Lib Dems could find themselves with or a single figure number of MP's.

I doubt the swing will be that big, but the Lib Dems are facing the prospect of being completely destroyed in 2015. As in, they might not even be around in their current form in 5 years time.

Well done Nick Clegg.

 

[Empty]

the conditions for apathy are really powerful yeah, there's the economic situation that's going to continue to cause cynicism, there's a government that isn't particularly convincing and is riddled by the usual series of scandals, an opposition run by a light weight whose policies are incoherent and motivated primarily by opportunism and clegg obliterated nearly all optimism about a third party alternative. only really exciting if you like ukip given all the european issues.

But more realistically, it was likely a concession to the Lib Dems - this is a coalition, remember. AV rarely, rarely benefits the Tories, especially on something (Law and Order) that is typically one of their stronger areas when it comes to public opinion. They'd do better with FPTP, and yet they didn't get it. I suspect it has a lot more to do with the political reality than any kind of "hypocrisy".

that's a good point. i'm so used to forgetting the lib dems are in there lol

 

[CyclopsRock]

The swing for the Lib Dems in the Man Central constituency was -17.2%, down to 9.4% of the vote. The last time the Lib Dems got such a low % of the vote in that constituency was 1992. If that -17.2% swing was repeated across the country at the next general election, then just from scanning the Lib Dem seats and their majorities on wikipedia, the Lib Dems could find themselves with or a single figure number of MP's.

I doubt the swing will be that big, but the Lib Dems are facing the prospect of being completely destroyed in 2015. As in, they might not even be around in their current form in 5 years time.

Well done Nick Clegg.

It's hard to see how they'll promote themselves during the next election. It depends on the economies state I guess, but it also depends a lot on the Tories EU policy, I think. Nationally in 2012, UKIP have regularly polled higher than LD's in voter intention. Of course, this doesn't mean UKIP will win many/any seats, but the votes they do get will be lost from the Tories, which might just be enough to save the LD's in some constituencies (the one where I grew up, Sutton and Cheam, has been Lib Dem since 1997, but the Tories have crept up every election since and only just lost out on stealing it in 2010). If the Tories get their EU policy (politically) right, they might even end up stealing votes back from UKIP and that can only spell bad news for the Lib Dems.

 

[War Peaceman]

I don't know if it's necessarily hypocritical - different electoral systems have benefits and drawbacks, and some of those benefits suit certain roles of elected offices more than others.

But more realistically, it was likely a concession to the Lib Dems - this is a coalition, remember. AV rarely, rarely benefits the Tories, especially on something (Law and Order) that is typically one of their stronger areas when it comes to public opinion. They'd do better with FPTP, and yet they didn't get it. I suspect it has a lot more to do with the political reality than any kind of "hypocrisy".

Absolutely. It just reminds me once more how utterly weird politics can be.

Yup, I can't wait. Then the righty ones can fuck off to the Tories, the lefty ones can fuck off to Labour, and the tossers that run the party can get new jobs. I can't stand them as a party, the way they operate etc. On the biggest surge in public opinion they ever enjoyed (ie 2010) they still managed to lose seats. That's why I think Clegg actually made a politically expedient decision by going into coalition - sure, the party's fucked, but it's not like they ever did anything for the last 20 years anyway. They may as well have no existed - at least they get some crack at changing something at the moment (even if it's to just steer the coalition slightly less right than it would be as a minority Tory government) - which is infinite percentage more than impact than they've ever had before.

Oh, the Lib Dems had no choice but to go into coalition - they'd lose out either way, at least this time they can break the habit of a half-century and actually become a party of government. It was always the right choice, though never an easy one.

If they do get annihilated in the manner you suggest, I hope that a third party (not UKIP) swoops in to fill the electoral void.

 

[nib95]

Had to laugh at the amazingly low voting turnout yesterday. Don't think anyone honestly gives a fuck about it.

Me and my brother in law were discussing it. I don't think any of us gave a shit. Maybe we should have, but there certainly wasn't a strong case made for it. Just feel the change was altogether a bit pointless. I'd have preferred the system not to have changed to the new one at all. But whatever, time will tell.

 

[kitch9]

Me and my brother in law were discussing it. I don't think any of us gave a shit. Maybe we should have, but there certainly wasn't a strong case made for it. Just feel the change was altogether a bit pointless. I'd have preferred the system not to have changed to the new one at all. But whatever, time will tell.

Nobody gives a shit because nobody knows what the role involves..... If some of them are successful and others less so, more people will give a shit...

 

[War Peaceman]

Nobody gives a shit because nobody knows what the role involves..... If some of them are successful and others less so, more people will give a shit...

I'm not convinced. Local elections (and this is a subset of local elections) simply aren't popular at all.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I'm not convinced. Local elections (and this is a subset of local elections) simply aren't popular at all.

I think it's a fairly cyclical problem. Local governments are perceived to only deal with collecting bins and cleaning up highstreets of McFlurry lids and chewing gum. As long as that's people's impressions of local government, you're going to continue to have apathy amongst voters, which in turn is an argument against devolving any power - because no one cares about local elections - which then in turn means that people think there's nothing worth voting for.

In the US local elections are more popular because the state's have a lot more power devolved to them. I do think that if councils had the ability to, for example, raise different levels of taxation like Scotland can, or legalise certain substances of marriages like US states can, people would care a lot more - but it's hard to argue for that when current turn out is so dire.

 

[Carl]

Me and my brother in law were discussing it. I don't think any of us gave a shit. Maybe we should have, but there certainly wasn't a strong case made for it. Just feel the change was altogether a bit pointless. I'd have preferred the system not to have changed to the new one at all. But whatever, time will tell.

Went for a hair cut on thursday and the chap asked if anyone was going to vote. Place had about 20 people in it and all of them said they didn't care about it. Pretty amazing, really.

 

[SteveWD40]

In the US local elections are more popular because the state's have a lot more power devolved to them. I do think that if councils had the ability to, for example, raise different levels of taxation like Scotland can, or legalise certain substances of marriages like US states can, people would care a lot more - but it's hard to argue for that when current turn out is so dire.

Pretty much, States are massive though (almost self contained country's) but it would get people more interested if they thought the council had any real affect.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Brown Moses on SA is hinting at something involving Rupert Murdoch and those pictures of Saddam in his undies. Maybe bribing a US official of some capacity to get their hands on them. I'm not sure what's going on but the next few days should be interesting if there's anything to it.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Just been reading through Cameron's BCI speech. What a pile of shit.

He went on and on about how he wanted government to get out of the way and he wanted to clear planning obstacles. Then he completely neglected to mention that the single most economically damaging policy decision is his idiot pledge to rule out a third runway or any other kind of airport capacity in London. He talks about delays and being on a war footing in relation to the economy, well if that was really the case, why the hell has the government delayed the airport capacity report until after the election so Labour can fumble it for at least 5 years until a GE in which they will likely be kicked out. That will take us to 2020 with no serious airport capacity expansion and will make Britain a second tier trading nation.

Dave and his cabinet of chums can talk all they like about breaking down barriers to investment and being on a war footing, but as long as they continue to fumble the biggest decision facing this country (at least in economic terms) it's all bullshit.

 

[nib95]

Government to get out of the way of what? Can you elaborate? I hope he doesn't mean regulations. Because I fee the recession was large in part due to a LACK of regulation.