Support NeoGAF

[Walshicus]

Still the case that ethnically English people are not a majority in the English capital. Whether that's good or bad is beside the point, its still conversation worthy.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I imagine that it's only an administrative fact that they were until now. You have places like Wimbledon and Sutton in the south, Richmond and Putney in the West, and probably similar places in the north and east which, in any other area of the country would be cities in their own right but are swallowed up by London. They are also predominantly white. I would imagine - hard purely in anecdotal evidence - that within, say, zone 3, white British people have been a minority for a long time. I say that as a white British person living in zone 1.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Unemployment down by 82,000. Rate stays at 7.8%, November claimant count down by 3k, so the number of unemployed should keep falling.

There was an increase in full time employment and a reduction in part time employment, reversing some of the recent trend. The number of people in part time work listing their reason as not being able to find full time work is now down from the record last quarter. So the net underemployment rate is down from 17.9% to 17.7%.

Overall this is a surprise set of figures, we expected employment to increase by around 10k and the rate to go up to 7.9%, the best news is that the trend of underemployment has begun to reverse after about a year. This is also only up to October, so seasonal employment in retail won't be included until next month's figures.

 

[Jackpot]

Ha. Even the CofE doesn't like the gov's ban on english church gay marriages.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/13/anglican-church-protests-gay-marriage-ban

The Church of England and the Church in Wales have expressed their "complete shock" at the government's plan to ban them from offering same-sex marriages, claiming they were not consulted over the proposed legislation, which would make them the only religious organisations to be legally barred from conducting the ceremonies.

A spokeswoman for Dr Barry Morgan, the archbishop of Wales, confirmed that the Church in Wales had not been consulted over the "quadruple lock" either, saying it had come "completely out of the blue" and had left the church "completely shocked". The spokeswoman said: "We feel it's a step too far and we weren't consulted and we're now looking into what we can do. We will be pushing to have it amended, I would imagine."

 

[nib95]

People have been telling me this for years and I've always assumed they were just crazy racists that read the daily mail too much. But I guess I was wrong, I actually am a minority in my capital city.

That's insane.

Why did no one make a thread about this? I would but I'm too scared to make threads.

Nothing insane about it. Richest city in the country also happens to be the most culturally diverse and global in reach, also has the highest population of mixes of other races. I'd have been surprised if London remained majority white, especially when there are so many other different races out there.

London is one of the best cities in the world because of it, provided of course you're a cultured person who doesn't fear or is not thrown off or against other cultures/races, and instead revels in it. That's me, in East London getting my spicy donner or curry one day, in Brixton getting my jerk chicken the next, Edgware Road for shisha, China town (Oxford Circus) for that amazing Dim Sum and back to the city (Canary Wharf) for good living lol.

 

[phisheep]

Ha. Even the CofE doesn't like the gov's ban on english church gay marriages.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/13/anglican-church-protests-gay-marriage-ban

That's curious. They should at least have consulted the Bishop of St Asaph who is pretty well the top Canon lawyer in the country (and incidentally who I was at school with and is the only person I've heard of who broke his leg while playing Monopoly).

Seems the Government has assumed that the law of England and Wales is the only law that counts and has forgotten about synchronising it with Canon law. Either that or there is some duplicity going on.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

(and incidentally who I was at school with and is the only person I've heard of who broke his leg while playing Monopoly).

Did he get drunk and try to ride the car

 

[phisheep]

Did he get drunk and try to ride the car

Way too young for that. We were, perhaps foolishly, playing Monopoly on the landing at his house (all aged about 14 at the time), another player landed on his fully-hotelled Mayfair and he stood up and stepped back to say "Yay!" or something like that and fell down the stairs.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Ouch

I now have this image in my head of him becoming a bishop because the incident taught him greed is bad

 

[Walshicus]

London is one of the best cities in the world because of it, provided of course you're a cultured person who doesn't fear or is not thrown off or against other cultures/races, and instead revels in it. That's me, in East London getting my spicy donner or curry one day, in Brixton getting my jerk chicken the next, Edgware Road for shisha, China town (Oxford Circus) for that amazing Dim Sum and back to the city (Canary Wharf) for good living lol.

Dunno. I think London's an overcrowded shit hole, but that's nothing to do with the racial mix. Best city in the world? It's not even the best city on this island.

I hate going to London; the smell and overwhelming sense of dirt... it's suffocating. Everywhere's an eyesore.




On topic - was kind of hoping the legal clause against the CoE conducting equal marriages would bring about renewed interest in disestablishmentarianism, as the current situation is an absurdity.

 

[phisheep]

On topic - was kind of hoping the legal clause against the CoE conducting equal marriages would bring about renewed interest in disestablishmentarianism, as the current situation is an absurdity.

Would have been a good opportunity to go the whole hog, but I guess in terms of getting support for the bill (especially in the Lords) that would have been a step too far at this stage.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I hate going to London; the smell and overwhelming sense of dirt... it's suffocating.

I have pretty much the exact opposite view

 

[Walshicus]

I have pretty much the exact opposite view

The smell and sense of dirt leave you feeling well oxygenated?

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

The smell and sense of dirt leave you feeling well oxygenated?

My pores were cleansed by the ashes of industry

 

[Walshicus]

My pores were cleansed by the ashes of industry

Needs to be your tag.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Lived and worked here my entire life. Love it. Couldn't imagine living anywhere else, other than maybe New York. I love that things that would be city-defining features anywhere else are hardly noticed amongst all the other awesome shit. I love the architecture - I love that on a 50m stretch of High Holborn you have shitty 80's office blocks next to shining glass modern architecture, between a 16th century Tudor parade where even Vodafone has black signs opposite a huge Victorian court with glorious red bricks. I love that when I walk out my front door I get whacked with a view of St Pauls cathedral and the Shard at the same time. I love that I have such a huge choice of affordable prostitutes.

(Edit: You can see all 4 here: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=go...=ynIyANTEiefb3JBlPjchfw&cbp=12,179.83,,0,9.24)

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

So it looks like mitchell was telling the truth:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20775071

wonder if milliband will apologise for his vulture-esque attacks

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Oh man, the police are in serious trouble over this.

After the Hillsborough cover up the public will begin to think that this behaviour is endemic within the police force.

I don't know where this goes from here, but the police have serious questions to answer, and Andrew Mitchell will surely be reshuffled back into the Cabinet.

 

[Meatpuppet]

Amusing disparity between the outrage at Mitchell at the time and the chirping crickets since.

 

[War Peaceman]

This is pretty disturbing news, the police can't shape the cabinet. Outrageous.

 

[Jezbollah]

Amusing disparity between the outrage at Mitchell at the time and the chirping crickets since.

Especially from the Police Federation.

 

[Arksy]

Can someone explain what the hell is going on? (Re: Mitchell) The UK tabloids seem to be a mess at the moment. I have no idea because the story seems to change every 5 minutes.

 

[Visualante2]

I think there's something very fishy going on with people being pushed into self employed roles that are destined to fail. My cousin was told in order to qualify for a business loan of £1000 (at the end of his buisness course) he needed to sign off benefits for 8 weeks for the chance to pitch his idea to a panel, and according to those running the course only 2% of those actually end up getting the loan. He has two nippers so obviously can't live 8 weeks without money and refused. He didn't think £1000 was enough to get started anyway. Who knows how these people are being counted on the back to work figures.

How to get people off benefits in 60 seconds. Apparently most of the people in the course had their signing books ripped up there and then. Who said the unemployed didn't know how to gamble.

 

[phisheep]

Can someone explain what the hell is going on? (Re: Mitchell) The UK tabloids seem to be a mess at the moment. I have no idea because the story seems to change every 5 minutes.

There's a good timeline of events here.

But there may yet be a few twists to come:

- apparently the police had no legal power to prevent Mitchell leaving Downing street by the main gate anyway

- We don't know how the contents of the police log got to the Sun and the Telegraph anyway. In fact we don't even know if the police log reported in the Telegraph was real or fabricated, and maybe even whether it originated from the police

- we don't know whether the email to the Deputy Chief whip was (a) fabricated by the DCW in a failed attempt to get his boss's job (b) sent by the police officer who nows denies he was there (c) fabricated by somebody else (newspaper/troublemaker)

- we don't know whether the police pocketbooks are not being released because (a) match or (b) don't match (i) each other or (iii) the detail released by the telegraph or (iii) the email (iv) the initial reports in the Sun

- but because of the timing, it seems likely that whoever wrote the email was the same person as informed the Sun and possibly the Telegraph - or if not, there's a lot of coincidences - or collusion - or if not, then Mitchell did what was claimed; except that there's rather a lot of doubt cast on that by the now-known falsehoods in the email

You follow that?

 

[War Peaceman]

Don't forget that Mitchell still did abuse a police officer, so he isn't entirely angelic in this. Still, the potential conspiracy is more important.

This is also bizarre: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20799963

 

[phisheep]

Don't forget that Mitchell still did abuse a police officer, so he isn't entirely angelic in this. Still, the potential conspiracy is more important.

Well, we don't actually know that for starters (of course, we don't know the contrary either and maybe never will). Chances are he's not angelic anyway having been a Chief Whip since that's not exactly how they get the job - quite the reverse. but there's actually no particular legal problem with telling a police officer to get stuffed or whatever - particularly if they are exceeding their powers. Done it myself.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Just got back from a week of internet-free Parisian street walking with only the bizarre BBC Worldwide news channel for news, which is almost entirely international news.

I miss anything exciting and Zeitgeist altering?

 

[War Peaceman]

Well, we don't actually know that for starters (of course, we don't know the contrary either and maybe never will). Chances are he's not angelic anyway having been a Chief Whip since that's not exactly how they get the job - quite the reverse. but there's actually no particular legal problem with telling a police officer to get stuffed or whatever - particularly if they are exceeding their powers. Done it myself.

Well he did admit to swearing, just not to using the word Pleb. I do agree on the latter point too, (though I've never done it) I just don't think it is justifiable for a return to office.

 

[phisheep]

Well he did admit to swearing, just not to using the word Pleb. I do agree on the latter point too, (though I've never done it) I just don't think it is justifiable for a return to office.

I'd lean the other way. If you or I had lost a job owing to leaked reports of fabricated evidence then we would damn well expect to get our jobs back, or compensation for wrongful dismissal or something.

I don't see why it should be different in this case.

Or course, strictly speaking, he "resigned", so it isn't quite the same thing. But apart from that I see no reason for him to have lost his job over what now appears to have happened and therefore no reason he should not have it back.

To do anything else is to give a victory to people who fabricate evidence and then leak it and then lie about it afterwards - which seems somehow wrong to me.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Angers me somewhat that tube drivers and their unions use their 'we'll fuck up your day' bargaining chip to get 46k+ wages while teaching unions merely think about striking for a day and teachers get portrayed as money hungry animals thinking about themselves more than the children.

Bob Crow is good at his job.

 

[disco]

Cameron needs to break up the TFL unions.

 

[Walshicus]

Cameron needs to break up the TFL unions.

The travesty is that other unions aren't strong enough to extract more corporate profit for their members, not that the TFL groups are able to.

 

[Brera]

I don't think that's what I said now, is it?

Ignore them, they'll just twist what you've said to make it fit their ultra librul worldview.

I get what you say, why would any parent not want their kids to grow up and have kids of their own and carry on their genes and legacy.

 

[JonnyBrad]

Has Bob Crow had his council house taken away from him yet?

Detestable man.

/daily mail

 

[Jackpot]

Margaret "the public just don't understand" Beckett is to become a dame.

 

[Jezbollah]

Happy New Year, UK PoliGaf.

Thoughts about any possible retail boost during the Christmas period? I've heard what seems to be positive news from both Next and John Lewis..

 

[Walshicus]

Happy New Year, UK PoliGaf.

Thoughts about any possible retail boost during the Christmas period? I've heard what seems to be positive news from both Next and John Lewis..

Wasn't that mostly due to online sales?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Happy New Year, UK PoliGaf.

Thoughts about any possible retail boost during the Christmas period? I've heard what seems to be positive news from both Next and John Lewis..

Obviously I'm hoping for the best, but the quarter-by-quarter comparisons should be held with the questionable veracity they deserve. Over the course of time - often it takes years afterwards - GDP figures are revised up and down and all over the place. They're useful indicators of course, but cheering or decrying a policy on the basis of a few quarters of data isn't too useful, I think.

 

[radioheadrule83]

UK service sector activity falls in December
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20909508

Activity in the UK's services sector fell for the first time in two years in December, a survey has suggested, raising fears of yet another recession.

The PMI services index from Markit/CIPS fell to 48.9 in December, down from 50.2 in November. Any score below 50 indicates the sector is shrinking.

Markit blamed the contraction on a fall in new business.

It said the numbers suggested the UK economy shrank by 0.2% in the final three months of 2012.

The UK emerged from a double dip recession last summer with growth of 1% in the three months to September.

"The first fall in service sector activity for two years raises the likelihood that the UK economy is sliding back into recession," said Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit.

The last time the index was below 50 was in December 2010, when it stood at 49.7.

A slight reduction in incoming new business was cited as the main factor behind the fall, with a reluctance among business to commit to new spending, and budgets reportedly being tightened.

Confidence among purchasing managers remained at an 11-month low.

Mr Williamson said the data suggested that "underlying demand remains very weak and that activity may continue to fall in the new year".

The services sector is seen as a good indicator of the health of the wider economy as it accounts for about three-quarters of the UK's GDP.

The estimate of a 0.2% fall in GDP for the final quarter is worse than predicted by other forecasters.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Two more years, lets see how low we can drag this country to and then keep blaming the other lot while doing it.

 

[Clay Davis]

any thoughts on this?

voters brainwashed by tory benefit myths

Ministers were accused last night of demonising benefits claimants in an attempt to justify their controversial decision to increase most state handouts by less than inflation.

Polling commissioned by the Trades Union Congress suggests that a campaign by Tory ministers is turning voters against claimants – but only because the public is being fed "myths" about those who rely on benefits.

The criticism comes before a crunch Commons vote next Tuesday on the Welfare Benefits Uprating Bill, which will ensure that most benefits and tax credits will rise by only one per cent for the next three years. Labour, which will vote against the measure, tried today to answer Tory claims that it is "soft" on scroungers by announcing a "tough love" plan to force adults who have been out of work for more than two years to take up a government "job guarantee" or lose their benefits.

George Osborne, the Chancellor, has spoken about "the shiftworker, leaving home in the dark hours of the early morning, who looks up at the closed blinds of their next-door neighbour sleeping off a life on benefits". Iain Duncan Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary, has highlighted figures showing that benefits have risen by almost twice as much as earnings in the past five years. According to YouGov, four out of 10 people think benefits are too generous and three in five believe the system has created a culture of dependency. However, people who know least about the facts are the most hostile towards claimants. More than half of those who are "least accurate" about the system think benefits are too generous, while fewer than one in three (31 per cent) of those giving the "most accurate" answers agree.

Mr Osborne's decision to cap most benefit rises at one per cent is supported by 48 per cent and opposed by 32 per cent. But, by a margin of three to one, people think the squeeze will mainly hit the unemployed. When told it will also affect low-paid workers receiving tax credits, people oppose the move by 40 to 30 per cent. Only one in four people believe benefits should go up by less than wages or prices, while 63 per cent want to see them linked to wages, prices or both.

Frances O'Grady, the TUC General Secretary, said: "It is not surprising that voters want to get tough on welfare. They think the system is much more generous than it is in reality, is riddled with fraud and is heavily skewed towards helping the unemployed, who they think are far more likely to stay on the dole than is actually the case. Indeed if what the average voter thinks was true, I'd want tough action too.

"But you should not conduct policy, particularly when it hits some of the most vulnerable people in society, on the basis of prejudice and ignorance. And it is plainly immoral to spread such prejudice purely for party gain, as ministers and their advisers are doing, by deliberately misleading people about the value of benefits and who gets them."

Ed Balls, the shadow Chancellor, accused ministers of resorting to "smears" by claiming they are targeting the workshy and benefit scroungers when two-thirds of those affected by the cap are in work.

Mr Balls announced that Labour would raise £1bn by limiting tax relief on pension contributions to 20 per cent for those on more than £150,000 a year. This would fund a "compulsory jobs guarantee" for the 129,000 adults over the age of 25 who have been jobless for more than two years, a move that would later be extended to those on the dole for more than a year.

Writing on the PoliticsHome website, Mr Balls said: "A One Nation approach to welfare reform means government has a responsibility to help people into work and support those who cannot, but those who can work must be required to take up jobs or lose benefits – no ifs or buts. Britain needs real welfare reform that is tough, fair and that works, not divisive, nasty and misleading smears from an out-of-touch and failing government."

Ministers insist there is strong public support for reducing the welfare bill, saying the TUC had failed to produce an example of the Government misleading people. Mr Osborne hit back at Mr Balls, accusing him of making uncosted spending commitments because he had already announced plans to spend the same £1bn on reversing cuts to tax credits.

A government source said last night: "It beggars belief that Labour's union baron backers think people are stupid for daring to suggest the benefits system needs reforming. If Labour seriously thinks stopping households receiving more in benefits than families earn going out to work is prejudiced and ignorant, it is completely out of touch."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ory-welfare-myths-shows-new-poll-8437872.html

I'm a little surprised it took this long for this to come out, but at least it's out there now.

 

[phisheep]

any thoughts on this?

voters brainwashed by tory benefit myths

Well, except that it's not just Tory and it's not just myths (but also not as prevalent as presented). I'm just reading Vol III of Richard Crossman's Diaries from 1968 and exactly the same thing came up in the Labour party then (and probably does today even).

 

[Walshicus]

Well, except that it's not just Tory and it's not just myths (but also not as prevalent as presented). I'm just reading Vol III of Richard Crossman's Diaries from 1968 and exactly the same thing came up in the Labour party then (and probably does today even).

If the government put half the effort it did in closing tax loopholes for the rich as it does in pushing the idea that benefit scroungers are the cause of all that ails us...

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

There was a report a week ago saying manufacturing was up, so it's not all doom and gloom.

Labour would have done much the same as the conservatives anyway

If the government put half the effort it did in closing tax loopholes for the rich as it does in pushing the idea that benefit scroungers are the cause of all that ails us...

...they would have gone overseas or found new loopholes?

soak the rich is always stupid because they can get around it easily so you go from having some of their money to none.
Closing corporate tax loopholes is really needed though, since it seems some companies are paying zero tax and causing the closure of others who are and therefore can't compete

 

[Walshicus]

...they would have gone overseas or found new loopholes?

soak the rich is always stupid because they can get around it easily so you go from having some of their money to none.
Closing corporate tax loopholes is really needed though, since it seems some companies are paying zero tax and causing the closure of others who are and therefore can't compete

That is the laziest argument when there are a large number of punitive options the government could make available against those who do so. Instead we make it absurdly easy for those people to migrate outside the UK.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

That is the laziest argument when there are a large number of punitive options the government could make available against those who do so.

I'm pretty sure a labour government tried this decades ago and it didn't work out too well.

Instead we make it absurdly easy for those people to migrate outside the UK.

I can't believe you actually mean that to make it difficult for people to leave the country, so I assume you must mean making it difficult for them to move their money overseas, which seems equally absurd. How would such a system work.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I'm pretty sure a labour government tried this decades ago and it didn't work out too well.

Denis Healey. Rich people just left and took their money to Canada, US and Australia.

If the 50% rate is such an important measure, why did Labour keep income tax at 40% for 12 years and 11 months out of 13 years in government. If they really believed that the rich should pay more then they should have raised the top rate and included it in the 2005 manifesto.

 

[CyclopsRock]

any thoughts on this?

voters brainwashed by tory benefit myths



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ory-welfare-myths-shows-new-poll-8437872.html

I'm a little surprised it took this long for this to come out, but at least it's out there now.

I find it odd that Balls is saying that Britain needs tough welfare reform when the last Labour government did basically nothing to actually reform the system, they just threw a bunch of money at it. The new system coming in is an actual reform and one that I think is hugely likely to actually help because it removes a lot of the enormous marginal tax rate problems that the last governments itty-bitty benefits system caused. I appreciate that its Balls's job to criticise irrespective of quality, being in opposition, but this seems like an odd battleground to choose for them.

 

[CyclopsRock]

We're 2.5 years out from the next election. Come on pundits of GAF, what are your election predictions?

 

[Pie and Beans]

Will be given almost by default to Labour due to the Conservative's lying throughout their election manifesto and providing a lovely "heres what they said they wouldnt do, but did" checklist and a country worse off than when they started, while the Lib Dems will cease to exist as a political party beyond fringe nutter level.