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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.

J

JesseEwiak

Member
kitch9 said:
Poles are great, I haven't got a problem with Poles, their arrival did hammer wages down particularly in the building trade though.

The problem in my area is large numbers of the Roma community who are aggressive and actively try to push the other residents in the community out of their homes to make room for more of the Roma community turning up. There is an entire black market revolving around keeping these people here as long as possible and provided with as many benefits as possible for as long as possible.

You can delude yourself that people don't behave in this way and everyone plays skipping games and patta cake in a multi cultural hullabaloo but they do.

It amuses me when people from the leafy suburbs of Hampshire ask what the problem is and try to say it's not happening and it's good for everyone....
Click to expand...

If you're for the free trade of goods, but not the free movement of people, you're essentially a hypocrite who wants cheap stuff, but keep wages higher than they should be.
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
JesseEwiak said:
If you're for the free trade of goods, but not the free movement of people, you're essentially a hypocrite who wants cheap stuff, but keep wages higher than they should be.
Click to expand...
Why? Why can't we have free trade agreements without free movement of people? I don't get the link?
 
K

kitch9

Banned
JesseEwiak said:
If you're for the free trade of goods, but not the free movement of people, you're essentially a hypocrite who wants cheap stuff, but keep wages higher than they should be.
Click to expand...

Yes, house prices dropped massively when the cheap labour turned up and started doing a days work on a building site for minimum wage. On the point of the minimum wage, we have one, so stuff can only get so cheap anyway. Not that we are an economy who does "cheap" stuff, we leave that to China as no-one can compete with that dodgy falsely manipulated currency anyway.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
I think she's been looking for an excuse for some time. The reality is that the UK doesn't actually have much of a policy on Gaza and Israel - and it seems it's this that she's not a fan of, but really, this seems like a fairly flimsy reason.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
CyclopsRock said:
I think she's been looking for an excuse for some time. The reality is that the UK doesn't actually have much of a policy on Gaza and Israel - and it seems it's this that she's not a fan of, but really, this seems like a fairly flimsy reason.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly, CR. Feels like she's used this situation to go out on a moral high, so to speak. Not bad for someone who has caused a fair bit of controversy in the past.
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
Yeah Warsi is a waste of space, given a Micky mouse brief to just make the government appear more inclusive. No real talent as far as I can see, rumours are she's been in a strop since not getting a promotion and has used Gaza as an excuse to resign.

I was on a boat on the Thames last night, the view of tower bridge/Westminster in darkness for WW1 remembrance was stunning. This city really is magical.
 
J

jimbor

Banned
Nicktendo86 said:
Yeah Warsi is a waste of space, given a Micky mouse brief to just make the government appear more inclusive. No real talent as far as I can see, rumours are she's been in a strop since not getting a promotion and has used Gaza as an excuse to resign.

I was on a boat on the Thames last night, the view of tower bridge/Westminster in darkness for WW1 remembrance was stunning. This city really is magical.
Click to expand...
It's a shame docklands didn't get the message, all the lights were on.
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
jimbor said:
It's a shame docklands didn't get the message, all the lights were on.
Click to expand...
Barclay's and I think citi bank turned theirs off, but yeah otherwise shame on them.

So Boris is coming back. Does anyone actually think he could launch a leadership challenge?

I wonder who the Tories will pick for their London mayor candidate. My money was on Seb Coe but he has been earmarked for the BBC hasn't he?
 
V

Volotaire

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
Barclay's and I think citi bank turned theirs off, but yeah otherwise shame on them.

So Boris is coming back. Does anyone actually think he could launch a leadership challenge?

I wonder who the Tories will pick for their London mayor candidate. My money was on Seb Coe but he has been earmarked for the BBC hasn't he?
Click to expand...

Apparently (wiki article), these are the possible candidates for the Tories:

-Shaun Bailey
-Phillip Blond
-Karren Brady
-Sebastian Coe, former Chairman of LOCOG, ruled out a 'return to politics', but the Conservative leadership have asked him to stand.
-Michael Liebreich is Chairman of the Advisory Board at Bloomberg New Energy Finance
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Volotaire said:
Boris finally makes his move back to the Commons. I don't imagine Cameron losing the next election (with a coalition with UKIP), so it would have to be an oust of leadership rather than ascension to party leader that would have to happen for Boris to seize power.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28673113

EDIt Beaten.
Click to expand...

There seems to be an overriding sense (even from Cam's circle) that he'll go following a European referendum whatever the result. I think it's this that Boris is targeting - For a long time I didn't realise why - it seemed a bit arbitrary. Why 2017? But I think I get it now - it's because the EU is such a huge issue for the backbenchers, and I think Cam's head is basically the price the leadership are paying for their good behaviour. Or, rather, they won't try and stab him in the back to get David Davis or some mad fucker be leader in 2016, because they know he's leaving. By promising (quietly, in the background) that Cameron will go in 2017, they take a lot of the "dangerous" sting out of the anti-EU lot, leaving them just with drum banging.

That's BoJos chance to shine!
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
So Osbourne, Johnson and May would be the three leading candidates. I'm a fan of Boris but having him as prime minister would almost be as ridiculous as Ed Miliband. Osbourne has had consistent high ratings for the past year or so, that's possible. May could be a good shout, but an outside one. The Tories love nothing more than a good implosion/leadership tussle hey.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
CyclopsRock said:
There seems to be an overriding sense (even from Cam's circle) that he'll go following a European referendum whatever the result. I think it's this that Boris is targeting - For a long time I didn't realise why - it seemed a bit arbitrary. Why 2017? But I think I get it now - it's because the EU is such a huge issue for the backbenchers, and I think Cam's head is basically the price the leadership are paying for their good behaviour. Or, rather, they won't try and stab him in the back to get David Davis or some mad fucker be leader in 2016, because they know he's leaving. By promising (quietly, in the background) that Cameron will go in 2017, they take a lot of the "dangerous" sting out of the anti-EU lot, leaving them just with drum banging.

That's BoJos chance to shine!
Click to expand...

I could definitely see this, the biggest point of contention between backbenchers and the cabinet is the EU issue. It also could explain why we haven't heard any 'rumblings' from the backbenchers for the last few months (or it's just they need unity for the election coming up).
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Volotaire said:
I could definitely see this, the biggest point of contention between backbenchers and the cabinet is the EU issue. It also could explain why we haven't heard any 'rumblings' from the backbenchers for the last few months (or it's just they need unity for the election coming up).
Click to expand...
That's never stopped them before! Though this election *is* different - it's their chance to actually get what they've been salivating over for 20 years.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
So Osbourne, Johnson and May would be the three leading candidates. I'm a fan of Boris but having him as prime minister would almost be as ridiculous as Ed Miliband. Osbourne has had consistent high ratings for the past year or so, that's possible. May could be a good shout, but an outside one. The Tories love nothing more than a good implosion/leadership tussle hey.
Click to expand...

I think Johnson has the best chance. Johnson has built up a near irreversibly good public image of himself whilst in his term as Mayor. Whenever he says something foolish or engages in criticism, he does it in a way that does not brandish him in the same camp with other 'aggregate class' of MP's to some public perception. He has a branch of typical Conservative ideology that is more reminiscent of the backbenchers than the Cabinet i.e. on education and on the EU. His education speech on IQ and on free market and trickle down economics could make him a favourite amongst them. Osbourne too, like you started, has aims preferable to the backbenchers, but on public image, could be the worst choice out of the three. I'm unsure about May.
 
D

dapperbandit

Banned
Volotaire said:
I think Johnson has the best chance. Johnson has built up a near irreversibly good public image of himself whilst in his term as Mayor. Whenever he says something foolish or engages in criticism, he does it in a way that does not brandish him in the same camp with other 'aggregate class' of MP's to some public perception. He has a branch of typical Conservative ideology that is more reminiscent of the backbenchers than the Cabinet i.e. on education and on the EU. His education speech on IQ and on free market and trickle down economics could make him a favourite amongst them. Osbourne too, like you started, has aims preferable to the backbenchers, but on public image, could be the worst choice out of the three.
Click to expand...

I would agree with pretty much all of that. Public image matters a lot and bad things just slide off Boris because of his personality.
 
K

kmag

Member
Volotaire said:
I think Johnson has the best chance. Johnson has built up a near irreversibly good public image of himself whilst in his term as Mayor. Whenever he says something foolish or engages in criticism, he does it in a way that does not brandish him in the same camp with other 'aggregate class' of MP's to some public perception. He has a branch of typical Conservative ideology that is more reminiscent of the backbenchers than the Cabinet i.e. on education and on the EU. His education speech on IQ and on free market and trickle down economics could make him a favourite amongst them. Osbourne too, like you started, has aims preferable to the backbenchers, but on public image, could be the worst choice out of the three. I'm unsure about May.
Click to expand...

I think there's a limit to Johnson's personality which will become more apparent when he goes for high office. It's one thing to elect a lovable roguish buffoon to be a glorified transport commissioner it's another thing to put him in charge of the country.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
kmag said:
I think there's a limit to Johnson's personality which will become more apparent when he goes for high office. It's one thing to elect a lovable roguish buffoon to be a glorified transport commissioner it's another thing to put him in charge of the country.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I like Boris. But if he was PM I'd worry that he'd make the UK look, well..."daft" on the world stage.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
kmag said:
I think there's a limit to Johnson's personality which will become more apparent when he goes for high office. It's one thing to elect a lovable roguish buffoon to be a glorified transport commissioner it's another thing to put him in charge of the country.
Click to expand...

This is true, but behind that 'loveable personality' is probably one of the Conservative's most crafty and intelligible members. I don't think he's a bad choice at all. There will be transition, and criticism if he goes into office, but I think he's the best prepared for this out of the other candidates.


Also, Warsi taking aim at Osbourne for the relatively pro Israeli stance of the UK government.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...friend-of-the-israeli-government-9651053.html

"George is a very good friend of the Israeli government and therefore he more than anybody else should have been saying quite frankly to the Israeli government that what you are doing is not in your interests - this is probably the biggest single act of self-harm that the Israeli government have done over the last few years," she said.
Click to expand...
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
If you listen to his LBC shows, he's gradually become far less buffoonish (and I guess that's intentional). He's obviously very, very smart too - he answered a question on the delicate subject of Israel and Gaza with genuine sensitivity but also intellectual comfort; He has a few years to effectively "prove" to people that he can be serious as well as fun.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Volotaire said:
I didn't realise Eddie Izzard was a possible candidate for the 2020 Labour Mayor election. Strange, and could work.
Click to expand...

It's a really dumb choice to be honest. 2016 is likely to install a labour candidate as mayor of London, and it's most likely to be someone who doesn't have higher aspirations of government and therefore they aren't going to vacate the seat just because Eddie Izzard fancies a go.

If he wants to do it, 2016 is the year he should be aiming for. Anything else and he is at huge risk of missing the boat timing wise, and you often on,y get one shot at these things.
 
K

kmag

Member
CyclopsRock said:
If you listen to his LBC shows, he's gradually become far less buffoonish (and I guess that's intentional). He's obviously very, very smart too - he answered a question on the delicate subject of Israel and Gaza with genuine sensitivity but also intellectual comfort; He has a few years to effectively "prove" to people that he can be serious as well as fun.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, he's got a string of controversies behind him which he's just scraped past due to his buffoonish persona (which is a cleverly crafted from the use of Boris as opposed to Alexander; Boris being his middle name; down to his hairstyle and favoured mode of travel). If you remove the buffoon persona then suddenly he loses quite a lot of the protection from his gaffes and his political position (which have never been as popular as Boris himself is)

Johnson is an intelligent guy who has adopted the one persona which allows unfettered privilege and the usual Tory cronyism to play well with the man on the street (people like eccentric, but only to a point). He dials that back and he's just another corrupt rich Tory with 4 or 5 middle names and a silver spoon in his mouth telling us why rich folks taxes should be cut while public spending is cut.

The other thing with Johnson is he's absolutely mindbogglingly awful in his Mayors Question time (he has a very noticeable tendency to make up facts, figures and statistics), he's fine with speeches and pre-scripted lines but I'm not sure he'd cope with the bear pit at the sharp end of the Commons.

And a large body of the kirk of Tory MP's actively despise him. His only real bet of being Tory leader is Tory electoral defeat at the next election as that would make a fair few Tory MP's hold their noses and vote for him as they'd see him as their ticket back into power. If it's just a case of a small Tory majority or coalition and Dave bowing out after a EU referendum then I'm not sure the impetus is really there for the Tories to go down the Johnson route rather than a Gideon or Theresa May.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
Nicktendo86 said:
So Osbourne, Johnson and May would be the three leading candidates. I'm a fan of Boris but having him as prime minister would almost be as ridiculous as Ed Miliband. Osbourne has had consistent high ratings for the past year or so, that's possible. May could be a good shout, but an outside one. The Tories love nothing more than a good implosion/leadership tussle hey.
Click to expand...

The return of Iain Duncan Smith.
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
Volotaire said:
I didn't realise Eddie Izzard was a possible candidate for the 2020 Labour Mayor election. Strange, and could work.
Click to expand...
I will never forget just as the euro was being introduced there was a debate whether we should join and he was on a show saying we should join because 'why not'. He is a Looney lefty of the highest order and would be a bloody disaster. Can't stand him.

As for Warsi, what does she actually want the UK to do?
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
There's a look-back, best-bits episode of Who Do You Think You Are right now, and it's showing a bit from BoJos episode. He went to Germany to check something out and, upon reading an entry in a book, he said "Aha! Ich habe der mystery gecracked!"

What a guy.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
As for Warsi, what does she actually want the UK to do?
Click to expand...

The more I read about her situation, the more I think her resignation is utterly pointless, and increasingly self-serving. After the few expenses sagas and the breech of ministerial code, she's actually managed to get out of dodge looking like some kind of saint to her community.

Also, I note that she has said little about the internal conflicts between Islamic factions in Syria, north Africa and in Iraq. That alone is illuminating.
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
Galloway "We have declared Bradford an Israel free zone. We don’t even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford"

What a lovely man.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
Galloway "We have declared Bradford an Israel free zone. We don’t even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford"

What a lovely man.
Click to expand...

There is so much hypocrisy to the man when it comes to his talks with Islamic state dictators, his stance on Women's rights and actually attending Parliament. There are issues that I certainly agree with him, but it seems he likes to sweep away his issues under the carpet.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
Galloway "We have declared Bradford an Israel free zone. We don’t even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford"

What a lovely man.
Click to expand...

I deplore the way Israel conducts itself with respect to Gaza and the West Bank, but that really isn't on and just a bad idea all round. Galloway is an utter arse.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
At some point, I have a problem with politicians just being able to randomly choose constituencies. I mean, wouldn't it be in the best interests of the constituents to elect a candidate who would, in their opinion, actively pursue policy on their behalf with better knowledge on what the constituents want. That is not to say the best candidate can't be the one who isn't native or familiar with the constituencys' problems. I guess most voters relate more to the national problems or problems they can relate to on a superficial/aggregate level.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Volotaire said:
At some point, I have a problem with politicians just being able to randomly choose constituencies. I mean, wouldn't it be in the best interests of the constituents to elect a candidate who would, in their opinion, actively pursue policy on their behalf with better knowledge on what the constituents want. That is not to say the best candidate can't be the one who isn't native or familiar with the constituencys' problems. I guess most voters relate more to the national problems or problems they can relate to on a superficial/aggregate level.
Click to expand...

Farage was born in Sevenoaks in Kent which is stone's throw away from South Thanet. He is definitely local to the area and he fought the seat in 2005, he only fought Buckingham in 2010 because he was facing the Speaker and there would be no competition from Labour and the Lib Dems. He is more local to South Thanet than Ed Miliband is to Doncaster that's for sure.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
zomgbbqftw said:
Farage was born in Sevenoaks in Kent which is stone's throw away from South Thanet. He is definitely local to the area and he fought the seat in 2005, he only fought Buckingham in 2010 because he was facing the Speaker and there would be no competition from Labour and the Lib Dems. He is more local to South Thanet than Ed Miliband is to Doncaster that's for sure.
Click to expand...

Ah, I'm mistaken with this case then. I didn't realise this.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
I really wouldnt classify the distance between Sevenoaks and the South Thanet (60 miles) as a stones throw ;) - they're on opposite sides of the county!
 
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