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[Napoleonthechimp]

I've just had someone on youtube accuse me of being a middle-class racist because I don't support UKIP pulling the UK out of the EU (who he thinks has anti-immigration policies - hence the racism - but what he thinks UKIP is going to do I don't know).

My family have been farmers, labourers, and factory workers going back hundreds of years. Middle-class is something we've never been, and the racist accusations are absurd because I'm from Leicester which is one of the more successfully ethnically diverse cities in the country. In fact it is actually an asylum dispersal centre, and I once had the pleasure of interviewing a Zimbabwean asylum seeker who fled his country for the UK, was harassed in London, and then found a welcome home in Leicester.

For someone to accuse me of being a privileged middle-class racist is one of the most ignorant and erroneous accusations that has ever been directed at me from another human being.

I find it stunning that people can accuse anti-UKIP people of supporting the exact things that UKIP stand for.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

S'okay brah, because I vote UKIP I've been branded a racist and a homophobe. Both sides of the fence have issues! I hope we f**k you up on Saturday though. We need points to stay in the Premier League. :'(

That being said, why do you feel the need to justify you not being 'racist?" I mean, that's rarely the sign of an untroubled conscience...

Because the accusation is so bloody absurd, that's why. When I read it I couldn't believe how completely fucking wrong it was, and now I'm trying to comprehend how someone could reach such a conclusion AND twist it and say that someone who is pro-EU is for racism and anti-immigration.

But I guess the person who said does not know a single thing about me and is formulating an opinion about me based off a complete fantasy that sits in their brain.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I hate the UKIP commentators. I mean literally, those that comment on articles. The Coffeehouse - the blog of the Spectator, which I frequent pretty often - is absolutely chock full of them and every single article, whether it's about the economy, foreign policy, new hires at the Spectator all end up with droves of them being all "THERE CAN'T BE ANY CHANGE FROM NULAB AND LABOUR-LITE" and all this old hogspiss about how the media has it in for them and stuff. Get back in your bags of nuts, you absolute cretins.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Every time I read a post signed off 'vote ukip' I want to punch a kitten.

 

[kmag]

My latest pet theory is that the Lib Dems will end up doing very well in Scotland in terms of seats because of the massive split with the SNP and Labour.

Nope. They're currently polling at around 7% up here, and the last YouGov poll had them at 5%. The Scottish Lib Dem polling has been consistently behind their UK numbers across a variety of pollsters. They'll probably hold a few of their constituencies but I don't see them gaining any.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I'm sorry but early morningness without my cup of coffee, most of that went over my head. Could you be so kind as to clarify for me here, you're saying you're annoyed by all the media putting the hate on UKIP? (Even though the BNP are a party actually containing openly racist members.)

Nope - sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean on at least one blog (the Spectator's blog), every single article has it's comments feed taken over by UKIP supporters who turn every single issue into one either about immigration or about how the "MSM" persecutes UKIP or how the Tories are "Labour Lite" and only UKIP are a true conservative party. I mean, none of those are outlandish opinions in and of themselves (insomuch as we can all debate the relative path of the Tory party since DC's election blah blah blah) but they're on every single article. The article could be about us bombing ISIS or the whips office reshuffling its staff or a new appointment at the Spectator, and somehow the comments end up being about Farage and how UKIP are going to wreck the Westminster consensus in 2015. It makes it really hard to have any meaningful discussions on there (and it wasn't always this way!)

 

[kmag]

If you ignore the racist and homophobic undertones of some of their pronouncements (which to be fair is more a symptom of their utter lack of organisation as a political party meaning that they've picked up a bunch of folks in positions of relative power that a better organised party would have weeded up), the main issue with UKIP is that on a policy level they are frankly schizophrenic. The rhetoric is relatively consistent but the polices just don't consistently match the rhetoric.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Nope. They're currently polling at around 7% up here, and in last YouGov poll had them at 5%. The Scottish Lib Dem polling has been consistently behind their UK numbers across a variety of pollsters. They'll probably hold a few of their constituencies but I don't see them gaining any.

Ah really? Well, bang goes that one.

 

[kmag]

Ah really? Well, bang goes that one.

Danny Alexander is probably the most hated man in Inverness. Which isn't a great position for the sitting MP. Oakenshotts parting gift was an ICM poll which had Alexander at 16%, and the SNP had over 51% in the constituency in the 2011 election

 

[CyclopsRock]

Danny Alexander is probably the most hated man in Inverness. Which isn't a great position for the sitting MP. Oakenshotts parting gift was an ICM poll which had Alexander at 16%, and the SNP had over 51% in the constituency in the 2011 election

Do you anticipate any of that feeling dissipating with distance from the referendum? I know it was partly about the manner in which the campaigns were fought, but "No" did win, so surely there's a sizeable chunk of people who don't see the UK-wide parties in a lesser light than before?

 

[dapperbandit]

UKIP got it's first Scottish MEP, what is the impression of the party to the people of Scotland? I've been to Dumfries and Braehead for hockey but I try not to talk politics.

I'm pretty sure UKIP aren't popular at all in Scotland. But I haven't payed much attention, I just know Farage got chased by a mob and had to hide in a pub.

 

[Walshicus]

I'm pretty sure UKIP aren't popular at all in Scotland. But I haven't payed much attention, I just know Farage got chased by a mob and had to hide in a pub.

I wonder what percentage of the people who voted for Scotland's UKIP MEP are English (and how that compares to the population of Scotland)...

 

[kmag]

I'm pretty sure UKIP aren't popular at all in Scotland. But I haven't payed much attention, I just know Farage got chased by a mob and had to hide in a pub.

Polling between 5% and 10%. Got 10.4% in Scotland in the Euro Election. They might get a bit more given the constant publicity but I doubt it, they'll get around 10%.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Polling between 5% and 10%. Got 10.4% in Scotland in the Euro Election. They might get a bit more given the constant publicity but I doubt it, they'll get around 10%.

I think some election time they will poll nationally in the high single digits and the Lib Dems will go up to the respective benefit/cost of the Tories/Labour. Just my feeling.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I wonder what percentage of the people who voted for Scotland's UKIP MEP are English (and how that compares to the population of Scotland)...

It's difficult to tell because they don't do break downs for Scottish/English/Welsh etc. as far as I can tell, but instead "Scottish first, equally Scottish and British, British, Scottish and other, other", but my rough guesstimate puts the number of people who consider themselves primarily English but live in Scotland at around 12%ish. Even if you suppose a third of them voted UKIP, which seems unlikely and vastly disproportionate with English sentiment (which is a weird concept anyway since English sentiment is hardly homogenous) even in England, they'd not account for the majority of Scottish UKIP votes.

 

[kmag]

It's difficult to tell because they don't do break downs for Scottish/English/Welsh etc. as far as I can tell, but instead "Scottish first, equally Scottish and British, British, Scottish and other, other", but my rough guesstimate puts the number of people who consider themselves primarily English but live in Scotland at around 12%ish. Even if you suppose a third of them voted UKIP, which seems unlikely and vastly disproportionate with English sentiment (which is a weird concept anyway since English sentiment is hardly homogenous) even in England, they'd not account for the majority of Scottish UKIP votes.

And lets be honest, there is a small but significant minority in Ayrshire, East Lothian, Glasgow and the Central Belt who are prime UKIP supporters if for nothing more than the iconography of the party...and they don't particularly like immigrants either. So while there's probably a lot less support for UKIP up here than in some parts of England there's still a decent pickings for them.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Read this earlier.

Labour candidate in Heywood says vote for her because she's "an ordinary, white working class person". Vote Labour, we're white. Jesus.

If this was said by someone in ukip or evan a tory they would be lynched.

But hey, labour are the moral choice, right?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Quite aside from the fact that, as a professional politician, the chances of her being "normal" in any sense are basically 0.

 

[WayneMorse]

Read this earlier.



If this was said by someone in ukip or evan a tory they would be lynched.

But hey, labour are the moral choice, right?

I have no trust in Dan Hodges, he just wants to destroy the party to push it even farther right than it already is.

 

[WayneMorse]

Peter Bone ruined Have I Got News For You, I don't mind them having Tories on but it's another thing to have extreme right wing Americanized bigots who want to abolish the NHS and bring back the death penalty and conscription on the show.

 

[Nicktendo86]

I have no trust in Dan Hodges, he just wants to destroy the party to push it even farther right than it already is.

The video of her saying it is on Guido Fawkes, he didn't make it up.

And yeah hignfy was a bit shit tonight. Good of you to allow Tories on those Wayne, very kind of you

 

[Walshicus]

Interesting article on the Herald Scotland about how repealing the HRA or withdrawing from the ECHR isn't that simple given their role in the NI peace process and Scottish devolution.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...tory-plan-to-scrap-human-rights-laws.25503433

 

[Nicktendo86]

Libdem conference appears to be a roaring success

Check out @timsculthorpe's Tweet: https://twitter.com/timsculthorpe/status/518376531388022784

 

[twobear]

I see that George Osborne is keen to not let us forget that he's a cunt.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I see that George Osborne is keen to not let us forget that he's a cunt.

The more weight he loses, the more he looks like Bear Grylls, the sexy fuck.

 

[Nicktendo86]

The more weight he loses, the more he looks like Bear Grylls, the sexy fuck.

I swear to god when he was giving his speech on Monday my wife (who has no interest in politics whatsoever) turn and said 'not often you see a good looking politician'. Still not sure what to think really.

 

[Nicktendo86]

YouGov poll for the Sunday Times puts Tories in the lead again. Now a 36% to 34% lead. Donors on the record questioning Miliband's approach

Cameron also has a 41 point lead over Miliband.

Edit: correction, 42 point lead. Was 31 last week!

 

[Masquerader]

So, what do you guys think about Cameron's idea of a different, Britain a exclusive Human Rights document?

I personally think that if it ain't broken, don't fix it. I mean, without the European Court of Human Rights, I would technically be illegal where I live. I don't think that it should be changed in favour of a document that's neither tried nor tested. I mean, what if we get a particularly homophobic or racist leader? Will they be able to change it?

 

[Nicktendo86]

Dire German export and manufacturing figures this morning, they may well tip back into recession. Eurozone could have a second crisis on its hands...

 

[anonymous_abc]

Dire German export and manufacturing figures this morning, they may well tip back into recession. Eurozone could have a second crisis on its hands...

https://translate.google.com/transl...sche-wirtschaft-von-wegen-rezession-1.2110312

Terrible google translation, but you get the gist.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Guido saying fiends of Alan Johnson trying to prep overthrowing Miliband.

This election campaign is going to be insane.

http://order-order.com/2014/10/06/s...llies-plot-to-knife-miliband-before-election/

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

So, what do you guys think about Cameron's idea of a different, Britain a exclusive Human Rights document?

I personally think that if it ain't broken, don't fix it. I mean, without the European Court of Human Rights, I would technically be illegal where I live. I don't think that it should be changed in favour of a document that's neither tried nor tested. I mean, what if we get a particularly homophobic or racist leader? Will they be able to change it?

To be honest I don't fully understand the issues around it all.

 

[War Peaceman]

I swear to god when he was giving his speech on Monday my wife (who has no interest in politics whatsoever) turn and said 'not often you see a good looking politician'. Still not sure what to think really.

He looks fantastic; very nice work by him.

Shame they had such an astonishingly shitty track record against any other sexual minorities.

Astonishingly shitty might be a bit extreme, but I thought it was pretty clear that I wasn't defending Labour at all.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Cameron also has a 41 point lead over Miliband.

Edit: correction, 42 point lead. Was 31 last week!

And yet a uniform swing would still give Labour appeox 14 more seats. How whacky!

 

[Nicktendo86]

And yet a uniform swing would still give Labour appeox 14 more seats. How whacky!

Yup, system is fucked. Curse you lib dems for blocking boundry changes *shakes fist*

I am coming round to zomg's prediction of a Tory six point lead come may and being the largest party again.

 

[Maledict]

The system has always been fucked. The Tories used to have a similar inbuilt advantage against labour back in the 80s.

You can't really moan about the libdems blocking boundary changes given the torpedoing the Tories gave to AV which would have at least made the system slightly fairer.

 

[WayneMorse]

Guido saying fiends of Alan Johnson trying to prep overthrowing Miliband.

This election campaign is going to be insane.

http://order-order.com/2014/10/06/s...llies-plot-to-knife-miliband-before-election/

Probably just nonsense gossip but if Johnson does overthrow Miliband it would probably better for the Labour Party in 2015.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Probably just nonsense gossip but if Johnson does overthrow Miliband it would probably better for the Labour Party in 2015.

Imagine this: Ed loses, Alan Johnson becomes leader of the Labour Party. Cameron delivers EU referendum in 2017 and resigns shortly after, Boris takes the reigns.

2020 becomes....

JOHNSON VS JOHNSON

(Do the Lib Dems have any Johnsons? Fuck it, who cares.)

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I'd be surprised if Alan Johnson took it up, he's considered fairly loyal in Westminster circles. Sounds to me more like a disgruntled backbencher working the rumour mill. I don't know why people are getting so excited about a post-conference bounce - Labour had +7 lead immediately after theirs. It'll fade in about a week.

 

[Nicktendo86]

The system has always been fucked. The Tories used to have a similar inbuilt advantage against labour back in the 80s.

You can't really moan about the libdems blocking boundary changes given the torpedoing the Tories gave to AV which would have at least made the system slightly fairer.

Torpedoing? They let them have a referendum on it and they lost the vote. The Tories were dumb not to lock the lib dems in a pact though...

I kinda like Alan Johnson but I feel his 'economics primer' comment would come back to haunt him lol.

I can't see them getting rid of Ed before the election but I am sure there are many disgruntled members of the party right about now.

Edit: god the lib dem conference looks like the most boring event to have ever happened
http://order-order.com/2014/10/06/boring-snoring-libdem-conference-picture-special/

 

[pulsemyne]

I'd be surprised if Alan Johnson took it up, he's considered fairly loyal in Westminster circles. Sounds to me more like a disgruntled backbencher working the rumour mill. I don't know why people are getting so excited about a post-conference bounce - Labour had +7 lead immediately after theirs. It'll fade in about a week.

Yep everyone gets a conference bounce then it settles down. Labours lead will return to about its average of 4 percent.

 

[phisheep]

So, what do you guys think about Cameron's idea of a different, Britain a exclusive Human Rights document?

Much as I favour the Conservative party on lots of things, I think this one is sheer fucking scaremongering nonsense.

The Human Rights Act is right up there with the very best of Labour's achievements - alongside the NHS, the Open University and independence of the Bank of England.

And it's not made any the worse for the UK losing a few cases that should never have got to that stage in the first place.

Let's not forget for example, that it took the ECHR to confirm the right of a person in the UK to be present at their own criminal trial - and that only in the last few years. As a sign of what a Government (of any flavour) might try to get away with untrammelled by the Convention that one is hard to beat.

 

[WayneMorse]

Fun fact: repealing the Human Rights Act would make slavery legal in the UK.

 

[phisheep]

Fun fact: repealing the Human Rights Act would make slavery legal in the UK.

The hell it would. Slavery was illegal way before the HRA came in.

 

[WayneMorse]

The hell it would. Slavery was illegal way before the HRA came in.

The Slavery Abolition Act was repealed in the HRA.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The Slavery Abolition Act was repealed in the HRA.

Wouldn't the repeal of the HRA repeal the repeal?

 

[Colin.]

Fun fact: repealing the Human Rights Act would make slavery legal in the UK.

Well, we already have the workfare programme. Which is close enough.

 

[Nicktendo86]

The Slavery Abolition Act was repealed in the HRA.

Which would be replaced by the British bill of rights which would be exactly the same as the hra.

 

[pulsemyne]

Well, we already have the workfare programme. Which is close enough.

And apprenticeships which pay well below minimum wage. Good old slave labour, it never went away it was just rebranded.

 

[phisheep]

The Slavery Abolition Act was repealed in the HRA.

Where do you get this stuff huh?

the 1833 Slavery Abolition Act was not repealed by the HRA but by the Statue Law (Repeals) Act 1998. Its repeal doesn't in any case make slavery legal.

EDIT: Certainly not in the UK, where slavery was illegal since about 1569 - the 1833 act was about the rest of the Empire.