Nicktendo86
Member
Fuel and falling food prices but wage increases above inflation had to be good news.
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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
I expect they'll introduce charges before the end of my life. I'd imagine it'll be the Tories but I wouldn't put it past Labour to do it either.
WayneMorse
Banned
If the Conservatives win a majority in 2015 you can bank on the NHS being dismantled over the next five years. Osborne's cuts will destroy Britain as we know it, the remnants of the welfare state will be gone, and the government will be there for only one purpose; to cater to the needs of the new British aristocracy.
Yep. I know we have a number of die in the wool labour hating Tories here, but when even the *Economist* is backing away from the Conservative proposals with a nervous look about them something is wrong.
George has overplayed the Tory hand, and his current numbers are fucking nuts. It is non-viable for us as a country to run our economy in that way, and barbaric that they think it's a moral goal. I don't know what has possessed them to think that absolute austerity, all the way, all the time is the way forward but seriously - when my father, who stood as a conservative candidate, is worried and thinks they are going too far they have made a mistake.
Yes, reform Whitehall and address the issues around our economy and finance. But taking a complete axe to the public sector, whilst ignoring the two biggest issues (NHS and pension) is utter lunacy. Local government isn't going to exist in 4 years time at this rate.
Yup, just the oil.
Nothing else.
Definitely nothing else.
Got any Corn flakes to go in your hyperbole?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think Osborne intends to follow through with his plans, if it is any consolation. They obviously don't work, even traditionally very Conservative sources, like the Economist, have pointed this out. I think Osborne simply expects to lose the election and wants to be able to shit on Labour for not reducing the deficit as much as his plans would, at a point when everyone has forgotten how terrible those plans are.
Jezbollah
Member
Could not come at a worse time. More ukip fodder:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30528189
BBC News said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30528189
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Uh... no? Those two things are comparable how, exactly?
Jezbollah
Member
Hmm. Lets see.
1. Past Chancellor has a policy that "obviously doesn't work"
2. Opposition party comes in with a mess of a book to deal with
3. New government's plans are hindered with the legacy of past failed policies.
I'll happily listen to your defence of the Labour fiscal policy in the last few years of their government. But let me know because I'll go and grab some Haribo and a cup of coffee.
By 1, I take it you mean the plan for a rate of cuts which were almost exactly what Gideon ultimately ended up going for after his plan A of let the buggers starve tied an anchor to any notion of proper growth for two years?
If you're comparing like for like, we're comparing Gideon's plans for the next parliament with Darlings 2010 plan for what would have been Browns (shudder) Government. Gideon's future cuts are mindless, you can't really say the same about Darlings plan unless you think Gideon's performance of the last two years is also mindless, as he pretty much ended up matching Darlings planned expenditure.
Jezbollah
Member
Well, lets look at it this way. What has historically been presented in terms of level of cuts has rarely turned out to be that way. It's politics after all. At the start of the coalition, its well known what they wanted to do was much more savage than what eventually happened. Room for "leniency", so to speak. Look at the cuts you need, declare them to need to be higher, then cut them down to your original target while looking like you're being reasonable. This is basic financial and political brinkmanship, and every political party in every democracy does it.
Crab, if you want to look at the history of budgets and compare what was announced vs what happened, go for it. If you think that it's how it'll play out in the next few years then believe it. Maybe Zomg was right about your analytical skills.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
kmag's analysis is what I was going to say and your answer to it is weak. Darling's plans are more or less line for line what Osborne followed.
Jezbollah
Member
Are they now?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10385052
Why the criticism then? Is Darling shitting on himself or are they in fact different plans?
Nicktendo86
Member
It is pretty clear the Tories scaled the cuts back and in the end went down a route pretty similar to what Labour proposed. Makes it all the funnier when they wheel out the 'savage cuts, too far too fast' lines, it is bollocks. You could probably just about get a fag paper between the two plans.
Labour are absolutely not being honest about the cuts required and the Tories are (in a funny way) over promising the cuts they plan to deliver in the next parliament.
By the way, did anyone watch PNQ's yesterday? Nick Clegg looked like a man desperate to be anywhere else.
Labour are absolutely not being honest about the cuts required and the Tories are (in a funny way) over promising the cuts they plan to deliver in the next parliament.
By the way, did anyone watch PNQ's yesterday? Nick Clegg looked like a man desperate to be anywhere else.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Like, kmag just explained this to you. Darling set out an entirely reasonable plan - there were definitely problems I had with it, but it was comparatively better than what else was on offer. Osborne set out a ludicrous plan, which Darling rightly criticized (article you linked). Osborne then actually followed Darling's original plan, while insisting all along he was following his own plan, the ludicrous one (he wasn't).
WayneMorse
Banned
It's a sad state of affairs in British politics when a legitimate response to criticizing the Tories shitty policy is "they're probably lying about it."
Maybe you should run for government, you make this sound easy?
The problem the left currently has is we are close to running out of other peoples money but we don't know how close we are because no one will tell us.
Its pretty much a nightmare scenario for a left minded politician, there's simply no-one left to squeeze other then trying to tax peoples assets which may have been obtained decades ago and we are at a point even the left are going to have to adopt right minded policies.
Fact is, the deficit needs eliminating and sharpish, then we need to run a surplus during economic growth to get ready for the next crash which will hit in around 10-15 years if not sooner.
Boom and bust will never be fixed, ever.
WayneMorse
Banned
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30525539
With the North Sea oil crashing so hard I'm wondering whether or not independence would've actually happened if Yes won in September.
With the North Sea oil crashing so hard I'm wondering whether or not independence would've actually happened if Yes won in September.
I'm watching Newsnight for the first time in a few weeks. Laura Kuenssberg is a poor presenter. I was watching her as she was trying to articulate a rebuttal in a debate about prisons staff members and violence. It seemed like she was stating facts and then circling back to critiquing rather than direct critique with integrated support. There's a hint of uncomfortableness in her voice and her presenting style with a few tops. This is not to say Paxman was the ideal style interviewer.
Oh and hello everyone again. If anyone wants to present ideas or collaborate for anything related to the UK PoliGAF 2015 election thread, then PM or post here here without diverting the thread. I'm now also open to titles since I'm bad at OT title names. I'm hoping to post March/April time or if we get to 200 pages before this date. Also, the thread is going to be more informative than humorous because of inquisitive non British gaffers. Fancy graphics are welcome, since I'm no expert at photoshop. I have basic skills in editing or creating gifs as well as images.
As we are from a democratic state [
], I'll choose the best OT title by sheer majority. I'll ask BritGAF to join in as well.
Oh and hello everyone again. If anyone wants to present ideas or collaborate for anything related to the UK PoliGAF 2015 election thread, then PM or post here here without diverting the thread. I'm now also open to titles since I'm bad at OT title names. I'm hoping to post March/April time or if we get to 200 pages before this date. Also, the thread is going to be more informative than humorous because of inquisitive non British gaffers. Fancy graphics are welcome, since I'm no expert at photoshop. I have basic skills in editing or creating gifs as well as images.
As we are from a democratic state [
], I'll choose the best OT title by sheer majority. I'll ask BritGAF to join in as well.
Jezbollah
Member
And my point was that saying what you're going to do is different to what you may actually do, in all to achieve both face and to achieve your original goals.
All this bleating over what may be cut over the next few years is nothing but blowing hot air - anyone who actually thinks what the Tories say they'll do compared to what they actually really plan is quite naive. Your example is proof.
I saw a tweet yesterday saying NI talks were agreeing £500m on shared education, not integrated educated. The difference is, in shared education, they'll create campuses and segregate the Catholics at one end and the Protestants at the other, but hey, they'll share their football pitches so it's progress, right. /s
If you aren't religious or don't want your kid to be in a religiously-segregated school, too bad. Integrated schools are oversubscribed, I think less than 10% of schoolkids are in integrated education.
If you aren't religious or don't want your kid to be in a religiously-segregated school, too bad. Integrated schools are oversubscribed, I think less than 10% of schoolkids are in integrated education.
anonymous_abc
Member
People here dig their own graves by voting for the cunts we have in office.
A strangely quiet thread considering all the information release about Thatcher today. You would swear it painted her in a horribly bad light.
Also scottish people got to find out exactly what they already knew about the poll tax, they were picked to be experimented on because they didn't vote tory. What a lovely government they were!
Also scottish people got to find out exactly what they already knew about the poll tax, they were picked to be experimented on because they didn't vote tory. What a lovely government they were!
The most interesting NI memo was in 1986 William McCrea (who is still a DUP MP) lobbied the British government to conduct air strikes on the Republic.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ed-on-the-republic-in-the-1980s-30867020.html
Jezbollah
Member
Time really isnt a great healer when it comes to Maggie is it? I suppose the right think as much of Blair as the left do of Thatcher. At least Maggie sent this country to wars that were legitimate.
I'm actually more interested in hearing how off the SNP's oil revenue estimates were (around £110m per day) and how they have sent their Ebola patient back down to London for treatment.
It's a good job they voted No, IMO.
I'm actually more interested in hearing how off the SNP's oil revenue estimates were (around £110m per day) and how they have sent their Ebola patient back down to London for treatment.
It's a good job they voted No, IMO.
Politicians do things some people won't like sometimes. Banging on about politics 30 years ago when the country and the world was in a vastly different place is tedious.
Maggie was not perfect by a long stretch but the days of the politician that has the balls to follow their own conviction is gone and sorely missed.
This new breed of social media pandering pussys we have now is sad in comparison.
In my experience the right don't hold that much antipathy towards blair at all. Very few Tories don't recongise that by 97 the government was utterly worn out and needed refreshing, and blair was a very centrist prime minister. Brown is the one they really hate, but even then not to the extent of thatcher - who, to be fair, did have a much greater impact on the country for good or bad than anyone since Churchill.
The largest dislike of Blair I find comes from the left over Iraq more than anything.
The only reason 'our' patient was sent to London is that it's UK protocol to use the two bed High level isolation Secure Unit for Ebola cases if there is a bed free. If the two beds are in use, patients would be treated in a normal infectious disease unit of which there are many in Scotland.
The HISU btw is funded by NHS England via a direct central government grant for that express purpose.
Jezbollah
Member
Interesting comments from Blair today.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30640264
Edit: That was quick: https://twitter.com/tonyblairoffice/status/550225272763858945
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30640264
Edit: That was quick: https://twitter.com/tonyblairoffice/status/550225272763858945
dapperbandit
Banned
Saw this and thought "it's new years eve, UK PoliGAF will like this."
Gets me in the mood for a Party at least.
Gets me in the mood for a Party at least.
WayneMorse
Banned
Better than Satanic Blair or Pregnant Blair I guess.
Blairs probably right is the sad thing, lurching to the left in an improving economy means labour will find themselves with less voters who want something for nothing.
Well then, this was always going to be a possibility if you let a private enterprise take over management of a hospital...
Circle Heathcare deems running of Hinchingbrooke hospital 'unsustainable'
Circle Heathcare deems running of Hinchingbrooke hospital 'unsustainable'
anonymous_abc
Member
Running health care should never be about making money, but about healing people. This will cost money.
Yes it's fair to try and save on frivolous spending, but not at the cost of helping the ill.
While it's mostly Labours fault (they started the tender process and by the time of the 2010 election only 3 private bidders were left), this isn't good for the Tories at all as they actually selected the bidder and the bidder's main issue seems to be a reduction in funding. This plays straight into the Tories biggest weakness.
JonathanEx
Member
We sort of missed this in thread:
Ofcom are consulting on what consists a major party for the election - and right now they think Ukip in, Green not. Basically this means Ukip would get more coverage than before (I know right haha satire) - and mainly - strengthens broadcaster's positions of having Ukip in the debates but not the greens. Doesn't stop it happening, but gives them security in their position.
For recap, the current proposals for debates are:
1 x Cam v Mili
1 x Cam v Mili v Cleggles
1 x Cam v Mili v Cleggles v Farage
Anyway, Cameron, who doesn't want to do the debates at all, is now saying he won't be in if the greens aren't.
IT IS INTERESTING.
Ofcom are consulting on what consists a major party for the election - and right now they think Ukip in, Green not. Basically this means Ukip would get more coverage than before (I know right haha satire) - and mainly - strengthens broadcaster's positions of having Ukip in the debates but not the greens. Doesn't stop it happening, but gives them security in their position.
For recap, the current proposals for debates are:
1 x Cam v Mili
1 x Cam v Mili v Cleggles
1 x Cam v Mili v Cleggles v Farage
Anyway, Cameron, who doesn't want to do the debates at all, is now saying he won't be in if the greens aren't.
IT IS INTERESTING.
JonathanEx
Member
Yeah, you're calling the broadcaster's bluff that they won't get the greens in, or empty chair him -- just killing the debates. If that doesn't work, it can harm Labour. It's certainly a plan.
Cam must just not like being questioned. His lack of press conferences during office has been of note, and he's just pulled out SLASH never formally agreed to taking part in a youth debate which he previous supported - http://www.buzzfeed.com/sirajdatoo/david-cameron-has-now-also-pulled-out-of-the-lead - in which each leader is questioned individually, everyone else has already done oh and it had the greens.
My thoughts on why they decided that... I can sort of see how they reached it, Ukip -feel- like a much bigger deal. But to marginalise the growing smaller parties feels odd... I suspect it's mainly that we're just not used to being any more than a two party (plus the LD for pity) democracy, and our systems, setup and mindset isn't really fit for how things are looking
Cam must just not like being questioned. His lack of press conferences during office has been of note, and he's just pulled out SLASH never formally agreed to taking part in a youth debate which he previous supported - http://www.buzzfeed.com/sirajdatoo/david-cameron-has-now-also-pulled-out-of-the-lead - in which each leader is questioned individually, everyone else has already done oh and it had the greens.
My thoughts on why they decided that... I can sort of see how they reached it, Ukip -feel- like a much bigger deal. But to marginalise the growing smaller parties feels odd... I suspect it's mainly that we're just not used to being any more than a two party (plus the LD for pity) democracy, and our systems, setup and mindset isn't really fit for how things are looking
Nicktendo86
Member
Fact is having UKIP on stage will probably damage the Tories so it makes sense to want the Greens on to try to damage Labour. They are polling better than the Lib Dems anyway and have a seat in the HoC, just let them on FFS.