Support NeoGAF

[Deleted member 231381]

And we're done, nothing really big today, bit surprised at that. Will probably frame it as a responsible budget I suppose.

No, I think it was strategically the exact right speech. If there had been big and obvious giveaways, I think it would have been too obvious a display of politicism and would have backfired. It's also a very difficult speech for Labour to criticise because in all honesty it is pretty similar to what they would have done. As a Labour supporter, it's the sort of speech I least wanted to hear. :/

EDIT: having said that, Ed is really gunning for it at the moment.

 

[Jezbollah]

Balls looks remarkably glum compared to past Budget opposition responses.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Agreed Crab, boring, steady as she goes, we are responsible kind of speech. Ed can't really disagree with it.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

He's having a good go, though. Definitely one of his better speeches at the moment.

 

[Jezbollah]

To be fair Miliband really has nothing to lose right now.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

My intuition is that this will do very little to the polls, a week's bounce at the most. The whole point of steady as she goes is to not rock the status quo, and Budgets usually harm government voting intention more than they help it, so that'd be considered a job well done by Osborne.

 

[kharma45]

That new ISA sounds too good to be true.

 

[pulsemyne]

That face pulled by Clegg just now will haunt him in the papers.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Secret tax rises and spending cuts? What the hell?

In the real world:

£12.2bn increase in capex over the next period, £23.2bn increase in departmental spending as well, backed by reductions welfare spending and increased tax take. Austerity is little more than a word.

 

[Nicktendo86]

By all accounts one of Miliband's better performances in the end. Always a hard task responding to a budget you haven't seen of course.

Yeah, this talk of austerity is kinda nonsense isn't it.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Feels like a 1-1 draw at the end of the day.

 

[Slowdive]

Miliband did a surprisingly good speech.

That face pulled by Clegg just now will haunt him in the papers.

 

[kmag]

Miliband going on the bullingdon club again *groan* he has nothing else to say does he? Pathetic. I thought he wanted an end to punch and Judy, hypocritical twat

Considering the personal digs Gideon took, Miliband has been relatively restrained.

 

[pulsemyne]

I think we can see that he is upping his game a bit. He's certainly better than he was. Certainly shows why Dave didn't want a head to head. As people have said Ed is a details man and it really showed today.

 

[kmag]

Secret tax rises and spending cuts? What the hell?

In the real world:

£12.2bn increase in capex over the next period, £23.2bn increase in departmental spending as well, backed by reductions welfare spending and increased tax take. Austerity is little more than a word.

Just flooding dosh in the final year to escape from Labour's 1930's charge seems eminently sensible. I mean I don't see any potential obvious downsides to it to two years of massive cuts, then a followed by a relatively neutral year then a free for all of spending. It's not at all a gimmick to get them through the election or anything like that. No sir-ee.

Even the OBR is referring to it as a rollercoaster.

 

[Wrestlemania]

That new ISA sounds too good to be true.

The first time buyers one? Yeah, it is, sort of. Maximum starting investment of £1,000, maximum of £200 saved per month. Means it'd take 55 months to generate the maximum £3,000 extra once you cash out for a deposit. Not a bad deal, just not as good as it initally sounds.

 

[kharma45]

The first time buyers one? Yeah, it is, sort of. Maximum starting investment of £1,000, maximum of £200 saved per month. Means it'd take 55 months to generate the maximum £3,000 extra once you cash out for a deposit. Not a bad deal, just not as good as it initally sounds.

Aye that one. I was wondering what the limitations on it were. Not really that attractive now to me, was hoping for a quicker return.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I actually think that the ISA section was one of the weaker parts of Osborne's speech. It opens him up to a lot of criticism about propping up the bubble, rather than actually addressing the reason why houses are so expensive to begin with (too much demand, too little supply), and embarking on a more extensive house-building program.

EDIT: When are we opening the election thread in Off-Topic? I mean, that last budget normally marks the opening of election season proper. Are we waiting until all the 7 debate parties release manifestos or something?

 

[phisheep]

EDIT: When are we opening the election thread in Off-Topic? I mean, that last budget normally marks the opening of election season proper. Are we waiting until all the 7 debate parties release manifestos or something?

When Parliament dissolves, if I remember it right.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

When Parliament dissolves, if I remember it right.

Seems a bit... short. Anyone else in favour of doing it around now-ish?

EDIT: Except that's in 12 days. Daaaaamn did I lose track of time. Never mind.

 

[kitch9]

Good God milliband is tearing him to pieces.

He's shouting a bit I suppose.

 

[Lirlond]

I don't get the big deal about £8 by 2020, won't the living wage have risen with inflation over those 5 years. We should be aiming for the living wage to set the minimum, regardless of what year it is.

 

[Jezbollah]

I don't get the big deal about £8 by 2020, won't the living wage have risen with inflation over those 5 years. We should be aiming for the living wage to set the minimum, regardless of what year it is.

The problem is that the higher the minimum wage goes, the fewer jobs are sustained let alone created.

 

[f0rk]

This Labour guy on Newsnight is exhausting. He hasn't answered any questions about what they will do in comparison to the Tories besides they won't cut as much

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I don't get the big deal about £8 by 2020, won't the living wage have risen with inflation over those 5 years. We should be aiming for the living wage to set the minimum, regardless of what year it is.

Indeed. £8 should be the minimum, by 2020 we should be looking at an annual minimum wage of £16,000 (£8.80/h) for a full time employee so a couple both earning the minimum wage won't be living in poverty and won't require state subsidies in the form of in-work welfare/credits to be able to live comfortably. Work should always pay people enough so they can pa for the basics and a few extras without having to go cap in hand to the government for credits. If companies don't like it they can lump it, for too long the taxpayer has subsidised low wages for the benefit of corporate profits.

 

[Psychotext]

That new ISA sounds too good to be true.

As already noted, it pretty much is: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...t_data/file/414027/FTB_factographic_final.pdf

3k maximum bonus after 5 years of saving, and max house value of 250k outside of London (reasonable in some places, useless in others).

Not quite as good as the headline "WE'LL MATCH 25% OF YOUR DEPOSIT".

 

[Maledict]

Um, the number of places where 250K does not get you a first time buyers house outside of London is very small, and there are always places nearbye you could get a home. Unless you are restricted to walking distance within Harrogate I don't see the price cap as an issue.

Ultimately, it's free money for first time buyers. It's not the panacea to the issue we have for deposits - but it will help, and the fact we can both use it means we get £100 a month toeards our deposit for a house. Will still take us a couple of years to get the deposit, but it it will help quite a bit.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Um, the number of places where 250K does not get you a first time buyers house outside of London is very small, and there are always places nearbye you could get a home. Unless you are restricted to walking distance within Harrogate I don't see the price cap as an issue.

Ultimately, it's free money for first time buyers. It's not the panacea to the issue we have for deposits - but it will help, and the fact we can both use it means we get £100 a month toeards our deposit for a house. Will still take us a couple of years to get the deposit, but it it will help quite a bit.

Yep, just because there are properties that cost more than £250k, how many people are seriously looking at those for the first property they're buying? Not too many I would have thought, outside of London at least.

I'll probably be looking to buy in the next couple of years, and so will be squirelling away a couple of hundred every month anyway. Sounds like just the kind of thing I'd be interested in...

Edit:

Regarding the cap, I just looked at Psychotext's link and it specifically says that for London the cap is £450k. Now I really don't think it's an issue.

Nice to see that it's per person too, not per household. Most first time buyers are probably couples (I don't have anything to back this up, so feel free to correct this if wrong) and so you can double the saving rate really.

 

[War Peaceman]

Indeed. £8 should be the minimum, by 2020 we should be looking at an annual minimum wage of £16,000 (£8.80/h) for a full time employee so a couple both earning the minimum wage won't be living in poverty and won't require state subsidies in the form of in-work welfare/credits to be able to live comfortably. Work should always pay people enough so they can pa for the basics and a few extras without having to go cap in hand to the government for credits. If companies don't like it they can lump it, for too long the taxpayer has subsidised low wages for the benefit of corporate profits.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[kharma45]

As already noted, it pretty much is: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...t_data/file/414027/FTB_factographic_final.pdf

3k maximum bonus after 5 years of saving, and max house value of 250k outside of London (reasonable in some places, useless in others).

Not quite as good as the headline "WE'LL MATCH 25% OF YOUR DEPOSIT".

I'd have been keen for this a few years ago but a bit late for me now. I'm not waiting 5 years just to gain £3000. It'll be good for some, and dependent on area as you noted, could be reasonable in some areas. Belfast for example, based on current house prices, it'd get you a very good first home.

 

[Maledict]

The crux of the first time buyer ISA will be when you can take the money out to pay for a house.

Clearly its not going to completely cover your deposit in London, even if you run two with your other half like we'll be doing. But, it is undeniably free money, and it does work out at £100 a month. £1200 a year tax free isn't to be sneezed at really.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I'd have been keen for this a few years ago but a bit late for me now. I'm not waiting 5 years just to gain £3000. It'll be good for some, and dependent on area as you noted, could be reasonable in some areas. Belfast for example, based on current house prices, it'd get you a very good first home.

Well, regarding the wait, I've just done some back-of-the-envelope calculations:

Per person

£1000 initial
£3400 at end of first year (£1000 + 12 x £200)
£5800 at end of second year
£8200 at end of third year.

So after three years on this, you could get a bonus of £8200/4 = £2050

If your wife/husband/partner also did it you would have a total bonus of £4100, making your savings increase from £16,400 to £20,500 (+ whatever interest).

I think that sounds pretty good really. Of course that's the 'best case scenario', where you make the max deposit and monthly payments, but if you do that then the return looks quite good and reasonably quick.

 

[Maledict]

Yep. I mean, it can always be made better with more free money, but on the basis of what we know currently it seems like a good deal and quite unexpected.

 

[kharma45]

Probably a stupid question but there isn't a minimum term with this, correct? So you could just do it for a year and use the gains from that? There's the minimum interest of £400 but so long as you meet that it'd be all good to withdraw to use on a house?

 

[JesseEwiak]

Always good to see that all over the world, welfare for the middle and upper middle class is considered a good thing, but welfare is a bad thing for those lazy poors to have, because it just means they have no incentive to get off their butt and get all those jobs that are out there, right?

 

[Maledict]

Always good to see that all over the world, welfare for the middle and upper middle class is considered a good thing, but welfare is a bad thing for those lazy poors to have, because it just means they have no incentive to get off their butt and get all those jobs that are out there, right?

Being happy because something in the budget looks like being useful for me doesn't mean I'm happy with the rest of it.

You know, being from a northern working class background whose parents have *zero* savings and can't help me with the deposit for a house no matter how much they wanted to. Or my partner, who has no family at all in the world. So yeah, I'm pleased that the government is doing something to help people get onto the property ladder in the current ridiculous climate of requiring insane deposits for first time buyers.

Leaping into a conversation and levelling accusations like that doesn't have the impact you want nor does it make the point you want either. Unless your aim was to look foolish and misinformed.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Being happy because something in the budget looks like being useful for me doesn't mean I'm happy with the rest of it.

You know, being from a northern working class background whose parents have *zero* savings and can't help me with the deposit for a house no matter how much they wanted to. Or my partner, who has no family at all in the world. So yeah, I'm pleased that the government is doing something to help people get onto the property ladder in the current ridiculous climate of requiring insane deposits for first time buyers.

Leaping into a conversation and levelling accusations like that doesn't have the impact you want nor does it make the point you want either. Unless your aim was to look foolish and misinformed.

I was just amused that after dozens of pages in this thread being filled up with talk about the deficit is so important and ya' know, those unemployed people just need a swift kick in the butt like I needed to get a job, then, "hey, the government might give me free money - woohoo!"

If you were against the benefit cuts for the poor, cool. If you were for them and are celebrating this, you're kind of a hypocrite and an asshat.

 

[Jezbollah]

Um, the number of places where 250K does not get you a first time buyers house outside of London is very small, and there are always places nearbye you could get a home. Unless you are restricted to walking distance within Harrogate I don't see the price cap as an issue.

I absolutely agree with you re prices. I myself bought my current place that I'm in the process of selling to move nearer to my folks. The price range I am looking at is £250k-£275k, and for a large two bedroom semi-detatched house in the sixth most desirable place in the UK that proves the point. My current place is a flat bought for £168k in 2007, at the height of the house market boom. £250k is more than enough to get a foot on the ladder.

 

[kharma45]

Being happy because something in the budget looks like being useful for me doesn't mean I'm happy with the rest of it.

You know, being from a northern working class background whose parents have *zero* savings and can't help me with the deposit for a house no matter how much they wanted to. Or my partner, who has no family at all in the world. So yeah, I'm pleased that the government is doing something to help people get onto the property ladder in the current ridiculous climate of requiring insane deposits for first time buyers.

Leaping into a conversation and levelling accusations like that doesn't have the impact you want nor does it make the point you want either. Unless your aim was to look foolish and misinformed.

Agreed. The help-to-buy ISA is perfect for those with little to no savings. I don't see it as being welfare for the upper and middle classes. Quite the opposite.

 

[Psychotext]

Depends what you're talking about regarding foot of the ladder. I know many families in rented accommodation that flat out couldn't fit in a 2 bedroom house. They're in the horrible situation of basically being stuck renting for good without considerable help from an external source.

 

[Jezbollah]

Depends what you're talking about regarding foot of the ladder. I know many families in rented accommodation that flat out couldn't fit in a 2 bedroom house. They're in the horrible situation of basically being stuck renting for good without considerable help from an external source.

Of course, what £250k can get you depends on location and a number of other scenarios - but generally those first time buyers are those who dont yet have families, or at the most have one or two kids. I think it's this demographic that is the real target of the policy.

 

[Psychotext]

I still think it's a real shame that it does precisely nothing for those who have already scrimped and saved to try and get some money together for a deposit. Well, not without waiting at least a year anyway.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Anyone seen the Lib Dems presenting 'their' budget today with Danny Alexander parading a yellow box around? The whole thing is bizarre...

 

[Jezbollah]

Anyone seen the Lib Dems presenting 'their' budget today with Danny Alexander parading a yellow box around? The whole thing is bizarre...

I saw a few tweets about it. Six backbenchers in attendance, and Clegg leaving halfway through. The words "car crash" were mentioned a lot on social media.

 

[kmag]

I saw a few tweets about it. Six backbenchers in attendance, and Clegg leaving halfway through. The words "car crash" were mentioned a lot on social media.

Labour gave him a hard time, and it was pretty undercut with Bercow pointedly making the point to Alexander that a ministerial announcement was for announcing government business, which basically led to the Labour benches heckling Alexander non stop for the first 10 minutes. Bercow didn't seem minded to call order much.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Never knew house building under labour was so bad. So many issues in this country today as a result of 13 years of labour.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...ogise-for-social-housing-failure-8932797.html

 

[Psychotext]

Surprised they didn't include the figures from the last few years as a comparison.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Labour's first election poster filled with positive messages as Ed promised. Oh wait, not it isn't, it is a negative poster based on the NHS with no basis in reality. As Isabelle points out in his interview today, Ed Balls says voters will come to the conclusion the Tories plan to cut the NHS, doesn't actually say they will as he well knows they plan to ringfence it. This attack like of scary cuts to come, or alluding to, is scaremongering nonsense.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/03/labour-launches-scary-nhs-attack-poster/

Edit:
1. Ed Miliband in January 2015. 2. Labour poster March 2015. http://t.co/LygPZro4M1

 

[zomgbbqftw]

There is £30bn worth of unallocated spending in the budget. The Tories are going to use that money to increase NHS spending in real terms over the next spending period. If Labour haven't seen it coming then they are in serious trouble. I am almost 100% certain that the Conservative manifesto will guarantee real terms spending rises for the NHS and the £30bn unallocated money will go towards this.

The other part of the money could be used to meet the 2% defence spending target by the end of the period.

In other news the borrowing figures from this morning point to an annual deficit of about £88bn this year which implies an annual deficit of 4.9% of GDP down from a peak of 10.2% at the height of the recession.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I am absolutely in love with Isabel.