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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.

M

Meadows

Banned
Your Excellency said:
Slightly off-topic but, guys, it's such a shame that the UK Brit-Gaf thread was closed.



Oh wait, no it wasn't.
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I still think it would be useful for asking/discussing something that only pertains to the interests of a Brit. For example, I would have put my licensing question in the Brit-GAF thread, but never mind, no use crying over spilled beans
 
Y

Your Excellency

Banned
Meadows/Chinner, one of you should consult with a mod (ideally the one who closed it) about how to best make a BritGaf thread, then. It's always good knowing which thread to go to to read some of SmokyDave's posts.
 
J

J Tourettes

Banned
Your Excellency said:
Meadows/Chinner, one of you should consult with a mod (ideally the one who closed it) about how to best make a BritGaf thread, then. It's always good knowing which thread to go to to read some of SmokyDave's posts.
Click to expand...

I suppose not posting pics of your favourite Brit girl would be a start. I don't recall it being particularly unfriendly but those were the two reasons mentioned.

If another Brit thread gets the go ahead, stick it in OT so more people can see it.
 
D

dalin80

Banned
Goodbye NHS, you were fantastic.

Hopefully one day those responsible will face corruption charges for pushing in the start of an american system to keep their friends rich.
 
S

Speedymanic

Banned
dalin80 said:
Goodbye NHS, you were fantastic.

Hopefully one day those responsible will face corruption charges for pushing in the start of an american system to keep their friends rich.
Click to expand...

It might still be delayed the House of Lords. It probably won't be, but it would be nice if it was.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Meadows said:
Who will replace Fox? A LD?
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Hague. Clegg to the FCO. Unless Paddy Ashdown can be coaxed out of retirement, I don't think there would be too much Tory objection to Ashdown given his military service history in both the Royal Marines and special forces as well as the intelligence services.

Fox is absolutely useless though. Somehow Pickles was able to find £250m to fund weekly bin collections, but Fox wasn't able to save HMS Ark Royal for a similar amount of money.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
zomgbbqftw said:
Hague. Clegg to the FCO. Unless Paddy Ashdown can be coaxed out of retirement, I don't think there would be too much Tory objection to Ashdown given his military service history in both the Royal Marines and special forces as well as the intelligence services.

Fox is absolutely useless though. Somehow Pickles was able to find £250m to fund weekly bin collections, but Fox wasn't able to save HMS Ark Royal for a similar amount of money.
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Isn't Defense minister like a step down from Foreign Minister? And isn't Foreign Minister a step down from Deputy PM?

Don't see that happening to be fair.
 
G

Guerrillas in the Mist

Member
dalin80 said:
Goodbye NHS, you were fantastic.

Hopefully one day those responsible will face corruption charges for pushing in the start of an american system to keep their friends rich.
Click to expand...

It's mind boggling that this legislation passed. Seemingly nobody wants it, and I thought most of the Lib Dems were against it? Did Dave personally blow all of the Lib Dem MPs to get their vote?

Edit: Only 4 Lib Dem MPs voted against it? What the fuck? Christ I'm happy I live in Scotland and this POS doesn't affect me.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
zomgbbqftw said:
Hague. Clegg to the FCO. Unless Paddy Ashdown can be coaxed out of retirement, I don't think there would be too much Tory objection to Ashdown given his military service history in both the Royal Marines and special forces as well as the intelligence services.

Fox is absolutely useless though. Somehow Pickles was able to find £250m to fund weekly bin collections, but Fox wasn't able to save HMS Ark Royal for a similar amount of money.
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Giving Clegg the FCO would send the Tory right wingers insane, they have hopes of using the Euro crisis to renegotiate our membership, I LOVE IT.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
Nail in the BNP's coffin?

BBC

BBC said:
The British National Party is under investigation by the European Union and the Metropolitan Police for alleged fraud and breaches of electoral law.

The dual investigations come as a former BNP administrator told the BBC's Panorama programme that she was instructed to falsify invoices.

Those invoices were then submitted by the BNP to the Electoral Commission.

The BNP has strongly denied any suggestion of wrongdoing.

The allegations come as the party struggles with debts run up during the 2010 general election campaign.

Internal party documents seen by Panorama reveal that 12 months ago the BNP owed creditors more than £570,000. Party chairman Nick Griffin recently said the party now owes just £52,000.

Former party worker Marion Thomas said after the 2010 general election she was instructed by the party's treasurer, Clive Jefferson, to alter invoices and in at least one case stamp an outstanding invoice as "paid".

The invoices were submitted to the Electoral Commission and had been altered, Mrs Thomas said, in order for it to appear that the BNP had complied with the law on election spending.

Asked how she felt about doing this, Mrs Thomas said: "I made my objections known."

She added: "You can't do that, you cannot do that. That is fraud."

Mr Jefferson told the programme that Mrs Thomas' allegations are "untrue".

Mrs Thomas, who now works for Britain First, a rival political organisation, has since been interviewed about her claims by detectives from the Metropolitan Police who are investigating alleged breaches of electoral law by the BNP.

That investigation began after Richard Barnbrook, who used to be the BNP member of the London Assembly and Mr Griffin's 2010 election agent, went to the High Court to say that he had submitted printing invoices totalling nearly £10,000 as paid when they too were outstanding.

Mr Griffin also signed those returns. Both he and Mr Barnbrook, who has since been expelled from the party and now sits as an independent in London, have said they acted in good faith, believing the bills had indeed been paid.

The High Court judge has referred the case the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Metropolitan Police were notified.

Another former party worker, Alistair Barbour, was recruited to Mr Griffin's European staff after he and one other BNP candidate were elected members of the European Parliament in 2009.

Mr Barbour was hired to work on European Parliament business and was to be paid out of the £260,000 pot of EU money that each MEP has available to them to pay for staff and expenses.

He told the programme that some money intended for MEP business was diverted to help bolster the party itself.

"Europe was the big cash cow you know, 'let's get our noses in the trough and see what we can get out and... see what we can fund the party with,'" he said of the approach to the MEP funds.

He added: "This is what it was all about, party work and just trying to figure out what expenses we could get out of the European Union."

Other party insiders have told the programme that at one point electricity from Nick Griffin's European constituency headquarters on an industrial estate in rural Cumbria was siphoned to the unit next door which served as the BNP's national headquarters.

When the European Parliament's fraud unit, OLAF, travelled to Cumbria five months later to investigate the allegations they found no evidence of an election scam but Panorama understands that they continue to investigate other allegations of misuse of European money by the BNP.

The BNP has denied using money from the European Union to fund national party work.
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My worry is that the party that might replace the BNP might actually have someone charismatic as their leader, like Geert Wilders in Holland. Oh well, I guess there'll always be a far-right fringe.
 
Z

Zenith

Banned
Meadows said:
Nail in the BNP's coffin?

BBC



My worry is that the party that might replace the BNP might actually have someone charismatic as their leader, like Geert Wilders in Holland. Oh well, I guess there'll always be a far-right fringe.
Click to expand...

BNP has been hemorrhaging cash and members for years. Unfortunately the EDL is there to scoop up any ex-members.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Your Excellency said:
Meadows/Chinner, one of you should consult with a mod (ideally the one who closed it) about how to best make a BritGaf thread, then. It's always good knowing which thread to go to to read some of SmokyDave's posts.
Click to expand...
it was something i was considering, but shamefully i lack the photoshop skills to implement it.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
Late to the party on the Liam Fox stuff but here's my view:

He's got to go.

What are they thinking? Have they learnt nothing from Coulsen? He's got to go now, before it gets worse. And he deserves to go.

I'm a civil servant in Defence, and if I somehow brought my best mate into work regularly - even just for chats or to meet some work friends, I'd quickly find myself under a disciplinary and sacked. We security vet everyone for a reason. The ministerial code exists for a reason. What makes this worse is that this guy has actually been posing as an advisor to Fox, and they've been having international meetings with foreign governments and contractors on matters possibly relating to defence, without civil servants present. If they've been making promises or deals or assurances, the whole thing just reeks of corruption. I sympathise to the point that this guy was Fox's best man, but the government have to look at the bigger picture here. Its good to stand by your friends and colleagues, but not when they're an obvious liability.


Re: the employment figures - I'm not sure too much can be read into it yet, there's a lag between policy enaction and policy effect, and this govt have *tried* to do some business friendly things only recently... so we'll wait and see I guess...

Can you guys imagine how shit things will get and for how many years it would last if the Eurozone crisis worsens and/or we go into double dip? The prospect of it just hurts my head.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
That Fox wasn't fired simply blows my mind, it's beggar's belief.

Edit: and by the whisper of rumour, he's a closet homosexual who's been cheating on his wife.

and a quick wiki search shows......:

"While studying medicine at Glasgow University in the early 1980s, Fox resigned his position on the university's Students Representative Council (SRC) in protest at the council passing a motion condemning the decision of the university's Glasgow University Union (GUU) not to allow a gay students society to join the union. The SRC motion called both the union's decision and the explanations given for it "bigoted". The GUU maintained its stance regardless and the controversy was reported in the national media while leading to many other university student unions up and down the country, including Edinburgh, cutting ties with their Glasgow counterparts. Explaining his decision to resign from the SRC and support the GUU's position, Fox was quoted as saying "I'm actually quite liberal when it comes to sexual matters. I just don't want the gays flaunting it in front of me, which is what they would do."

Oh Liam.
 
S

Songbird

Prodigal Son
Don't you see, Meadows? It's the internet hate machine's fault! Wild gossip!

I'm not sure I want those kinds of rumours bringing him down to be perfectly honest, even if true. The use of his money should be why he's sacked.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
I think the biggest issue is how Werrity was able to afford 20 foreign trips while he was basically unemployed. If it turns out that Werrity was using his relationship with Fox for personal financial gain then it will all turn very nasty as it will lead to accusations of cash for access where lobbyists would pay Werrity and he would then set up an accidental meeting between Fox and their clients.

Whether Fox is gay or not doesn't really matter, if his relationship with Fox is more than friends is completely irrelevant. If Werrity took cash payments to set up meetings between defence contractors and Fox that is a serious case of malpractice and Fox is culpable because he has not made Werrity his official SpAd or a CCHQ consultant. If Werrity were an official government employee he would have to log all meetings with lobbyists and everything would be above board. That he is totally unofficial would allow these murky transactions to take place under the radar and for that Fox is in trouble and needs to go. Not because he might be gay or has some weird relationship with Werrity.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
zomgbbqftw said:
I think the biggest issue is how Werrity was able to afford 20 foreign trips while he was basically unemployed. If it turns out that Werrity was using his relationship with Fox for personal financial gain then it will all turn very nasty as it will lead to accusations of cash for access where lobbyists would pay Werrity and he would then set up an accidental meeting between Fox and their clients.

Whether Fox is gay or not doesn't really matter, if his relationship with Fox is more than friends is completely irrelevant. If Werrity took cash payments to set up meetings between defence contractors and Fox that is a serious case of malpractice and Fox is culpable because he has not made Werrity his official SpAd or a CCHQ consultant. If Werrity were an official government employee he would have to log all meetings with lobbyists and everything would be above board. That he is totally unofficial would allow these murky transactions to take place under the radar and for that Fox is in trouble and needs to go. Not because he might be gay or has some weird relationship with Werrity.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter that he's gay per se, but he's an old-style Tory with anti-gay views, and quite frankly David Laws, who was a great politician, resigned for less.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Empty said:
the lords didn't manage to delay, through amendements, the nhs bill like some predicted they would. :(
Click to expand...

It will fuck up my nursing degree but i hope the NHS staff strike as much as possible. Nobody voted for this dodgy backroom deal.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Oh, it would be ironic if Fox had to resign given his view on gay rights and marriage for same sex couples.

Laws resigned because he fiddled his expenses and left the taxpayer £40k out of pocket, that is as bad as Fox IMO.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
zomgbbqftw said:
I think the biggest issue is how Werrity was able to afford 20 foreign trips while he was basically unemployed. If it turns out that Werrity was using his relationship with Fox for personal financial gain then it will all turn very nasty as it will lead to accusations of cash for access where lobbyists would pay Werrity and he would then set up an accidental meeting between Fox and their clients.

Whether Fox is gay or not doesn't really matter, if his relationship with Fox is more than friends is completely irrelevant. If Werrity took cash payments to set up meetings between defence contractors and Fox that is a serious case of malpractice and Fox is culpable because he has not made Werrity his official SpAd or a CCHQ consultant. If Werrity were an official government employee he would have to log all meetings with lobbyists and everything would be above board. That he is totally unofficial would allow these murky transactions to take place under the radar and for that Fox is in trouble and needs to go. Not because he might be gay or has some weird relationship with Werrity.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Its not really Fox's place to be striking up international relationships in the presence of this guy, who operates in no official capacity, and without having the proper official representation and advice from MOD or the foreign office... it just looks incredibly bad and the buck has to stop with him. I'd like to think his days are numbered and they're scrambling for a way to make it easier on him and make a smooth transition, but after Coulsen - you have to wonder if they're really naive enough to believe he can survive in post...
 
M

Meadows

Banned
zomgbbqftw said:
Oh, it would be ironic if Fox had to resign given his view on gay rights and marriage for same sex couples.

Laws resigned because he fiddled his expenses and left the taxpayer £40k out of pocket, that is as bad as Fox IMO.
Click to expand...

Laws was petrified of coming out as gay and did something stupid that spiraled out of control because he was so scared of people finding out. He did the wrong thing. He made no money from changing his expenses (even the commission said so, he could have legitimately claimed the place as a second home and made more money) and he resigned out of embarrassment despite the fact that the Lib Dems tried to get him to stay on since he was such a good politician. He also apologized profusely.

Fox basically let this guy into deals, and allowed him to make money off posing as an advisor. He also put national security at risk on MULTIPLE occasions.

Not only should Fox have quit by now, he should have been fired.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Meadows said:
Laws was petrified of coming out as gay and did something stupid that spiraled out of control because he was so scared of people finding out he was gay. He did the wrong thing. He made no money from changing his expenses (even the commission said so) and he resigned out of embarrassment despite the fact that the Lib Dems tried to get him to stay on since he was such a good politician. He also apologized profusely.

Fox basically let this guy into deals, and allowed him to make money off posing as an advisor. He also put national security at risk on MULTIPLE occasions.
Click to expand...

I completely agree that Laws was a good a MP and a good Minister, but fiddling expenses for so long after the expenses scandal was a pretty poor idea.

Fox should definitely resign, and the sooner he goes the better. Werrity is hanging around like a bad smell...
 
Z

Zenith

Banned
Meadows said:
Laws was petrified of coming out as gay and did something stupid that spiraled out of control because he was so scared of people finding out. He did the wrong thing. He made no money from changing his expenses (even the commission said so, he could have legitimately claimed the place as a second home and made more money) and he resigned out of embarrassment despite the fact that the Lib Dems tried to get him to stay on since he was such a good politician. He also apologized profusely.
Click to expand...

Know what he could have done? Not lied about it.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Fox is done. Nick Robinson has a source for the rumour I heard yesterday. Cash for access. Rich money men would pay Werrity who would then set up 'accidental' meetings for them with the defence secretary. From there it gets murkier, but I will wait for Robinson.
 
G

Guerrillas in the Mist

Member
PJV3 said:
It will fuck up my nursing degree but i hope the NHS staff strike as much as possible. Nobody voted for this dodgy backroom deal.
Click to expand...

I'm just ashamed that a lot of Lib Dem backbenchers voted for it. I'm sure they were told that the government will collapse and the party will be finished if they vetoed it, when I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't happen. I don't think the Tories would go nuclear over a bill that's so disliked both by the public and the professionals. Literally nobody outside of Parliament is happy with this bill, which makes it worrying that it sailed through.

If Labour comes back into power, how difficult will it be for them to wrest back control of primary care from private companies... sorry, I mean "collectives of GPs running things locally for the nice big shiny society"?
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/15283131

I have spoken to a wealthy backer of Liam Fox who says he and half a dozen others raised funds to pay for Adam Werritty to act as the Defence Secretary's unofficial adviser - someone who, unlike civil servants, could be relied on to champion support for Eurosceptic, pro-American and pro-Israeli policies.

The donor - who wants to remain anonymous - says that he and those he introduced to Fox do not have defence interests but they do share Fox's ideological leanings. When I asked whether I or the official inquiry could see the accounts to prove this, I was told that "keeping accounts is not one of Adam's strong points".

There is one big problem with this explanation, which is clearly designed to help Fox. Having an adviser outside the rules of the civil service paid for by undeclared donors is almost certainly a breach of ministerial rules.

It also raises one big question. Fox himself said on Sunday that his friend had "defence-related business interests" - which suggests that his trips were paid for not just by ideological supporters but by those with defence interests. No official adviser would be allowed to have any such conflict of interest.

Even though the Cabinet Secretary is now running an official investigation it is the Prime Minister who is the judge and jury of the ministerial code - as he made clear today at Question Time in Parliament. I'm told that David Cameron spoke to a close friend of Liam Fox's last night and assured him that he would do whatever he could to keep the Defence Secretary in his post.
Click to expand...

So there we have it. Subversion of democracy in the UK. Fox needs to resign tomorrow morning and a full investigation launched into the links of this Werrity character and if any defence deals were influenced though meetings set up by Werrity.

I know a lot of you think I'm a Tory, but honestly I'm not. I can't support a party that would keep this man in office at the MoD.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
zomgbbqftw said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/15283131

So there we have it. Subversion of democracy in the UK. Fox needs to resign tomorrow morning and a full investigation launched into the links of this Werrity character and if any defence deals were influenced though meetings set up by Werrity.

I know a lot of you think I'm a Tory, but honestly I'm not. I can't support a party that would keep this man in office at the MoD.
Click to expand...
Hey, he shouldn't resign. We can't lower these unemployment figures!!! [/tory]
 
S

Subliminal

Member
A beautiful rumour circulating around /b/ and other places about the Queen being dead, and a Superinjunction being inplace about it until 0900 tomorrow.

We can hope.
 
T

TCRS

Banned
Just watched PMQs on BBC i player (yeah, I do that sometimes). Same old lines by David Cameron, but Ed Miliband is no real alternative imo. He looks and sounds like a child. I still don't get how he managed to become the Labour leader; him and the other Ed look like total clowns. They certainly don't look like leaders. David Miliband would have been the perfect leader.

Miliband was lucky this week because he had the unemployment figures to attack Cameron, but he usually gets his ass whooped by Cameron. I'm no Tory, but Cameron is right: what credible alternative has Labour presented? All they do is attack the Conservatives.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
Subliminal said:
Surely the queen dying would be a prime time for the republicans to strike and finally make the englishman free?
Click to expand...
Well, Charles isn't exactly the most popular man is he?

Interesting rumour. Would be nice for the consequence of it, were it true - of course nobody *wants* her to die in of itself.



TCRS said:
Just watched PMQs on BBC i player (yeah, I do that sometimes). Same old lines by David Cameron, but Ed Miliband is no real alternative imo. He looks and sounds like a child. I still don't get how he managed to become the Labour leader; him and the other Ed look like total clowns. They certainly don't look like leaders. David Miliband would have been the perfect leader.

Miliband was lucky this week because he had the unemployment figures to attack Cameron, but he usually gets his ass whooped by Cameron. I'm no Tory, but Cameron is right: what credible alternative has Labour presented?
Click to expand...
Ed's a great leader for the age before television. I really want him to be successful *because* he's not charismatic or telegenic. I don't like how polished our leaders have to be these days, because the only people who get that polished are shits.
 
S

Subliminal

Member
I just whore myself out to anyone really, A friend of mine who browses 4chan sent the rumour to me, I thought it was neat.

It's clearly not true.
 
G

Guerrillas in the Mist

Member
Sir Fragula said:
Ed's a great leader for the age before television. I really want him to be successful *because* he's not charismatic or telegenic. I don't like how polished our leaders have to be these days, because the only people who get that polished are shits.
Click to expand...

Yeah, in modern day politics, how you look on TV is as important a quality as how you are as a leader.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
Subliminal said:
ooh. based on how bitter the wedding thread was, A Queen death thread would be a clusterfuck.
Click to expand...
Nah, I'm sure we republicans would wait for Charles' coronation to rant about the stupidity of the monarchy.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Subliminal said:
Surely the queen dying would be a prime time for the republicans to strike and finally make the englishman free?
Click to expand...

No, that would be rotten timing. Would need to be at least two or three years ahead of the Queen dying to sort out all the constitutional ins and outs - remember when Blair tried to abolish the Lord Chancellor? Even that didn't work, and it would be 100 times harder to lose the monarchy.

So if the Queen is dead, then that's pretty well it for republicanism for another 50 years or so since although Charles is by no means universally popular, William is.
 
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