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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT| of 9 Years Urley

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B

Burning Water

Neo Member
zlatko said:
Iron Fist was the reason I bought the game. Love him, love his combos, but for the life of me I cannot open up a tuna can let alone a person online with him. Shit is so hard for me.

I've yet to actually see what IM as anchor with level 3 xfactor is capable of, but hopefully it's super easy stuff to confirm and tons of damage. I know his regular combos can be a bit tricky, and how his wave dash is a bit jacked up right?

If Thor was your anchor I'll be brutally honest that he's ass, and you'll work 100X harder than anyone with him as your last character. Thor is semi decent with assists backing him up, but by himself he can really struggle. On the other hand his damage is massive so if he does hit someone in level 3 he can destroy probably before even having to waste a bar of meter... which most of the cast can already do in level 3. :p

I'd say keep IF/Storm/ and pick Spencer for your last character since you said you played him in vanilla. His assist is great, his damage is huge, solid maneuverability, bionic arm is swag, and combos are easy to do.
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I don't think Thor is ass, but I see what you're saying about his position in anchor.

Dahbomb said:
IM is not great as an anchor, so is Thor.

Thor is most definitely not ass in this game. On the team of IF/Storm/IM I would simply swap the order of IM and Storm. Team needs a lock down assist though. If Thor is incorporated in I would swap IF for Thor.
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If I went Thor/IM/Storm, what assists would work well here?
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Burning Water said:
I don't think Thor is ass, but I see what you're saying about his position in anchor.
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Yeah. As said, he's not good as an anchor, and I do agree with him on that point.

If I went Thor/IM/Storm, what assists would work well here?
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Storm's assists are all pretty meh, though Whirlwind is the best one, so take it.
For Iron Man, Unibeam obviously is the best, though I don't know if Smartbombs wouldn't be better since they allow you to extend combos with their OTG properties. You'd have to try which of these 2 works better.
Thor is easily Mighty Smash - overheads are always useful.
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
Red Arremer said:
Yeah. As said, he's not good as an anchor, and I do agree with him on that point.



Storm's assists are all pretty meh, though Whirlwind is the best one, so take it.
For Iron Man, Unibeam obviously is the best, though I don't know if Smartbombs wouldn't be better since they allow you to extend combos with their OTG properties. You'd have to try which of these 2 works better.
Thor is easily Mighty Smash - overheads are always useful.
Click to expand...

Wait that's an over head? Shit I never use that assist. I should be going for unblockables with that.
 
B

Burning Water

Neo Member
Red Arremer said:
Storm's assists are all pretty meh, though Whirlwind is the best one, so take it.
For Iron Man, Unibeam obviously is the best, though I don't know if Smartbombs wouldn't be better since they allow you to extend combos with their OTG properties. You'd have to try which of these 2 works better.
Thor is easily Mighty Smash - overheads are always useful.
Click to expand...

I'd definitely consider Smart Bomb for the OTG assist. As for Thor, Mighty Smash indeed, but I'm curious about Mighty Spark. Does the assist version still hit crouching characters? Also, if I'm rushing down/covering block strings, wouldn't Mighty Spark be safer than Mighty Smash?
 
K

koryuken

Member
Dahbomb said:
In plain terms, Capcom is balancing the game around mid level/online play.... for the most part and some consideration is given to high level play. At casuals, any character is "viable" or strong with a decent amount of effort and good synergy. I can wreck with IM in casuals. I can't take my IM to tournaments if I want to have a serious chance of winning... at least not at the level that I am with him right now.

This is pretty much why I think Wesker is going to get nerfed in the near future. He is a problem even at the casual/online level.
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I'm calling it now! Here is my prediction after seeing how CAPCOM works -- instead of removing the sunglasses BS, they are going to nerf his HP.

Wesker is going to be 750,000 hp character and everything else will stay the way it is. This won't fix him being overpowered @ XF3...but it just seems like something CAPCOM would do. Which sux because I only play Wesker on point.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
A Pretty Panda said:
Wait that's an over head? Shit I never use that assist. I should be going for unblockables with that.
Click to expand...

I'm not 100% sure, it's been a while since I used his assist in a game, but I believe so.
It, in any case, ground bounce is pretty good too.

Burning Water said:
I'd definitely consider Smart Bomb for the OTG assist. As for Thor, Mighty Smash indeed, but I'm curious about Mighty Spark. Does the assist version still hit crouching characters? Also, if I'm rushing down/covering block strings, wouldn't Mighty Spark be safer than Mighty Smash?
Click to expand...

Hmm... good question. I don't know for sure if Mighty Spark hits crouching characters as well, but I believe so. I could boot up my box quickly and check (same goes for Mighty Smash). Your point is actually pretty interesting, and I don't know much about the synergy between him and IM/Storm, so you'd have to experiment a bit. All I can say is that Mighty Strike is kinda useless unless you need an anti-air, and both Storm's Typhoon and Lightning Attack lack in utility.
 
C

crimsonspider89

Banned
His ground normals still suck outside of setting up kara grabs. Use your air normals.

Thor is most comfortable in the air.

You need to learn his trijump options if you plan to use him.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
After testing: No, unfortunately, Mighty Smash is not an overhead, I must have either confused it with something else or simply forgotten it wasn't. Maybe I was thinking of Nova's overhead? I dunno. It does hit twice though (the one moving up and the one going down) and causes a ground bounce, so it's not like it's bad. In any case, my apologies for screwing up here.

Mighty Spark hits several characters even while crouching, but not all of them. I went random and tested it on Ghost Rider (where it was hitting while he crouched) and on Chun-Li (whose head it went over), the third character on that team was Rocket Raccoon, so it's obvious it went over him, haha. So it's dependent on the matchup.
 
B

Burning Water

Neo Member
Red Arremer said:
Mighty Spark hits several characters even while crouching, but not all of them. I went random and tested it on Ghost Rider (where it was hitting while he crouched) and on Chun-Li (whose head it went over), the third character on that team was Rocket Raccoon, so it's obvious it went over him, haha. So it's dependent on the matchup.
Click to expand...

Good shit, thanks for testing. One thing, though. When you tested it, were the characters crouching neutral, or were they in block stun when Mighty Spark whiffed over them? I'm asking because I don't remember if certain characters in block stun have slightly taller hitboxes.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Burning Water said:
Good shit, thanks for testing. One thing, though. When you tested it, were the characters crouching neutral, or were they in block stun when Mighty Spark whiffed over them? I'm asking because I don't remember if certain characters in block stun have slightly taller hitboxes.
Click to expand...

As said, I only tried it on Chun and Ghost Rider. I blocked with both. On Chun, it simply went over her head, without any stun. Ghost Rider was in blockstun.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
crimzonflame said:
Who do you think has the better Hawkeye: Chris G or Combofiend?
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Chris G no contest, because he can hit confirm off of the opponent sneezing. Combo is probably #2 though. Maybe if we saw more of Combo's we'd have a better picture, but I doubt it, they play very differently.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
crimzonflame said:
Who do you think has the better Hawkeye: Chris G or Combofiend?
Click to expand...

They both are really good, but they kinda deploy different playstyles. So it's hard to say.

Karsticles said:
No, Magneto is the BEST beam if you're a teleporter, because it doesn't scale your combo damage, it boosts it.
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Well, he's not playing any teleporters, so obviously it doesn't have the utility of a screenfilling slow beam. Of course, disruptor has its uses, but for the characters of his choice, I don't think it really helps them a lot aside from assist punishes.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
ChrisG's Hawkeye for sure, more technology on deck.

Combofiend's Hawkeye is more rushdown Hawkeye. DAT explosive arrow cross up.

His Strider ran a train on Fanatiq.
Click to expand...
Lack of match up experience. Fanatiq has been rocked harder against Nova and Vergil because he didn't know the match ups.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Red Arremer said:
No, SP, I'm not here for your sexual pleasure.
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I have a pretty good idea about why she sucks, but I don't mind hearing what others have to say. It brings a fresh perspective and the only person who has ever detailed what she lacks and needs besides me was Dahbomb a while back. That kind of thing is nice to hear because it gets those dusty cogs in my brain(at least the part that learns about fighters) moving again.

oh well
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
It was fun to talk about Hsien Ko before the changelog notes just to see if Capcom would implement the changes she needed. She didn't get what she needed and hence remains a character most people don't really include in the game's high level meta. I still think her assist is top but you are fucked over more severely in this game due to slower meter gain. You really need to make sure you get it going without any hitches.

Maybe for the 3rd edition.

Thor being in the same vicinity as Hsien Ko has to be a joke. This wasn't even true in vanilla and now there is even a wider gap between the two. Thor is like upper mid in this game and Hsien Ko is for sure bottom tier.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
SolarPowered said:
oh well
Click to expand...

Okay, gotcha... I thought you were genuine with that masochist comment LOL.

Well... I'm gonna try summarize what I learned during the first few weeks playing with her, though I admit, it's been a long time, and aside from randomly fucking around with her, I haven't really played her. Here's the most glaring weaknesses I noticed and know.

Health: Well, this one is easy. Her health is below average, making her easy to kill in one or two combos. I believe she hovers somewhere around the 850k mark, correct me if I'm wrong.

Mobility: A thing I heavily noticed with her. All of her mobility options are garbage. Her walk/hop is ridiculously slow. Her little dash teleport, although pretty cool in concept, is far too short and slow to be of any use. Her airdash... let's not go there. The only real opportunity for her to get in is the pendulum and this is stupidly unsafe cause so easily punishable, and not even cancellable. If the both dashes would've been buffed in speed and range, and the pendulum would be cancellable, she would actually be quite good. But with what she has, her approach is terrible.

Getting In: Her biggest problem. Although her Item Toss is not THAT bad, she will win no firefight. So she has to get in. But she has pretty much no real option to open up an opponent or any safe approaches, partly because of her terrible mobility, so she's pretty much screwed. Her gongs, albeit useful on paper, are too short-ranged and slow to actually help against keepaway, as well.

Damage Output: I would say she actually would do OK here if her only reliable OTG option wouldn't require spending a bar or having an assist. So in this regard, she's probably below average. She can't follow up throws, even her command throws, but if she does get in, her damage is average, I'd say. She thus has a hard time getting the momentum into her favor, her comeback factor is really low, and it's really easy to get her back into the disadvantageous position as soon as she eventually has to end her combo.

I would say those are her 4 biggest negative factors, and all of them would actually be easily fixed. Health is not as much of a problem honestly. But give her better mobility options and a cancellable pendulum. Have her claw-on-the-floor attack (c.H. I believe?) OTG. Gongs with slightly better range. If she gets those things, she actually would be really solid.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
What Hsien Ko sucks at (some will be repeated but I am going over it anyway for completion sakes):

HEALTH: Way too low for this archetype. Capcom vagina tax at full force.

MIX UPS: Her two best options for mix ups are her jump cancellable normals and command throw. Both of them are mitigated by her poor overall mobility and even if you land the mix up you don't get enough out of it. She also has terrible options from an air throw. Her mix ups just aren't anything worth discussing because most of the time she is rarely within range to perform said mix ups.

MOBILITY: Biggest fault on the character. It's completely garbage in the air and on the ground. Extremely susceptible to punishment or air grabs. Can't do shit about Advancing guard. Ground dash while unique in it's properties doesn't help her move around the screen effectively enough.

ZONING: Gong no where as good as it should be. Anki Hou is random bull shit, there should be some way to control which items you throw out without it being some crazy 1 frame link. Basically Hsien Ko's ability to restrict the opponent's mobility sucks, it's only at it's best when they are within the range of her normals.

NORMALS: Probably her only actual "strength". Normals have good priority/range and can out poke good characters. Doesn't covert into high damage but it's something opponents have to somewhat respect. Due to jump cancellable normals in UMVC3, this is also an aspect that is improved for her as her anti-airs are now better as well as potential mix ups.

DAMAGE: Still well below average in the game. I heard she got some better combo stuffs this time around but so did like every other character in the game except for Tron.


WHAT SHE NEEDS:

*More health
*Pendulum needs to be cancellable. That move is garbage without some extra property on it
*Some control over items in Anki Hou.
*A dive kick/dive bomb move that moves her straight down really fast. This is an area where Hsien Ko is very vulnerable from. Hell if they make this OTG or cause some hard knockdown (while giving her another OTG move) this would be enough to move her up a tier. If it causes a ground bounce that's just as good.
*Needs better frame advantage off of air throws
*Needs a self-OTG move so she can self combo off of ground throws, air throws and command throws
*More time on Gold armor
*Tweaking of her ground dash
*Even less floatyness
*Better damage output, better combos, better hit confirms, better scaling values, better X factor values
*Better start up and recovery on most of her stuff
*Gongs being able to reflect more stuff, activate faster and stay on screen longer/travel further
*Anki Hou and Gong inputs reversed.
*Her "slide" improved in range, speed, hit box and active frame. Should be at least UMVC3 She Hulk range
*Some new tool to put the scare in the opponent at a distance. Possibly a full screen projectile that also causes a wall bounce or even a dizzy. I don't know but she needs a genuinely need tool in her arsenal as far as space control goes.


I have to get a majority of stuff here for me to give a damn about her.
 
C

crimsonspider89

Banned
Execution=/= memory and he won't need to use the meter for Phoenix team if he really wants to use her.

Task is a char who is all about easy combos that come from reading your opponent and high health with high damage.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I have seen Viscant play Taskmaster it's garbage. Just like his Doom and Iron Man.

Hawkeye would be another option for him. But he wants the Doom assist for easy hit confirms with the gun shot.
 
F

Frantic

Member
I love Strider + XF2/3 + Ouroboros. All I do is just wave-dash in their face and I just kill characters from full health, even through chip. They also can't pushblock too hard or they'll end up getting hit by a random orb which just opens them up for full damage. And it's not hard to open someone up with XF Strider, either, so they're kinda screwed in that situation. It's so absolutely stupid(and a waste of resources, realistically)... but it's hilarious and usually kills one character for me, so whatever. XD

And on another note... my Dante/Spencer reset works quite well, as I've found out today. Tried it in six different situations, against four different players... it worked every time. And I was just doing the most simple of the mixups possible from the setup. I have even crazier mixups with that setup... did you guys know that Dante's Grapple forces a neutral tech? You cannot roll forward or backwards when you recover from it. Yeah... you can imagine the bullshit that happens from that.
 
D

Dartastic

Member
I'M JUST GONNA SAY, YEAH, THAT BEEF TODAY WITH MIKE WAS LEGIT. BUT I'D ALSO LIKE TO REMIND PLAYERS HERE THAT THE BEEF ON THESE FORUMS IS ALSO LEGIT.

FOR TOO LONG, IGNORANT CARNIVORES HAVE BELIEVED THAT POPEYE'S IS NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS KFC. TIME TO PROVE THEM WRONG. TUESDAY. LET'S GO.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
What's the best way to punish vergil's teleport? What kinds of characters does vergil do well against, and which give him the most trouble?
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Zissou said:
What's the best way to punish vergil's teleport? What kinds of characters does vergil do well against, and which give him the most trouble?
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Raw Vergil teleports are the easiest to punish in the game, easier than any teleport. If he's doing with an assist then you can't punish him because you would get clipped by the assist. Most people like to do M teleport which is the one where he appears behind you, just wait for it and stick out a limb to punish it.

Vergil does excellent against characters like him who have moves he can whiff punish from distances. He is essentially a SF character in Marvel as weird as that sounds. You see someone throw out something from a distance, you immediately go in for the kill. That means he is good against characters like Sentinel, Nemesis, Hulk, Nova, Dormammu. He's also good at shutting down various tri-jump offense due to his anti-air and air to air normals, it's difficult getting in on Vergil when he knows what he's doing. Essentially Vergil can even punish someone like Wesker if he advance guards properly and then punishes the whiff accordingly. Any character like Arthur and PW who hates teleporters... obviously Vergil owns characters like these for free. Any character who is a "footsie" character by design is a bad match against Vergil because it's extremely difficult to out footsie a character like Vergil.

Vergil doesn't have a technical bad match up because anything that gives him trouble he can just Devil Trigger or turn on Spiral Swords and the match up is at least 5-5 or better. Vergil in DT is an S tier character without any shred of doubt. Speaking strictly of normal Vergil without an assist vs another character... any character with endless safe pressure from a distance that Vergil can't shut down with his normals is going to give him trouble. Which means Zero pressurizing him with Buster shots into Lightning, Viper's Seismos or Dante's Stinger -> Reverb -> Fireworks. Hawkeye gives Vergil more trouble than it appears as Hawkeye can easily whiff punish Vergil's moves while punishing his attempts to get in like teleports or dive kicks. Strider with his various animations/formations would probably give Vergil a hard time but it's a match up that I haven't had the opportunity to explore. In addition, characters that can block through his Judgment Cut strings on paper should give him trouble but most people don't know about the 3 frame window within they can act so it shouldn't be a factor at any level yet.
 
A

Azure J

Member
SolarPowered said:
I have a pretty good idea about why she sucks, but I don't mind hearing what others have to say. It brings a fresh perspective and the only person who has ever detailed what she lacks and needs besides me was Dahbomb a while back. That kind of thing is nice to hear because it gets those dusty cogs in my brain(at least the part that learns about fighters) moving again.

oh well
Click to expand...

We are so not Hsien-bros anymore. :(
 
B

Beats

Member
Dahbomb said:
DAMAGE: Still well below average in the game. I heard she got some better combo stuffs this time around but so did like every other character in the game except for Tron.
Click to expand...

She has a midscreen jump cancel loop now. The most I've been able to get out of her with an OTG assist was about 700k+, and about 500k without one. Pretty much agree with everything you said about her though. She's fun to use but I had to kick her off my team because it felt incredibly difficult to get in against most characters. :|
 
S

scytheavatar

Member
http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2011/12/12/53325.html

Ladies and gentlemen, the patch will be released in Dec 19th. It will give us the H&H crap which I think no one here gives a damn about. But here's something for the vita version which I am sure some will care about:

230753.jpg
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
_dementia said:
Guys I want to play Frank and Spencer. Any ideas on a good 3rd character?
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Hawkeye would probably be good. Any teleport character can take advantage of Frank's shopping cart. Projectile or lockdown assists will cover Frank's approach or allow crossups via roll at Lvl 2.

If you're not doing it already, a nice strategy is to have Spencer on horizontal grapple assist. You get two camera shots at the end of combos because it causes a hard knockdown after OTG Camera. :)
 
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