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[Mit-]

I think the tiers are still going to end up far more defined. People think that Spider-Man is being slept on but he's not. What distinguishes a top tier rushdown character (like Wolverine) from a low-tier (Spider-Man) is the ability to pick up combos off of literally any hit that you land. Wolverine can do big damage off air throw (with assist), anywhere in the air (dive kick), aerial opponents (jump loops/dive kick/big hitboxes), instant overhead (with assist usually), left/right crossup (with assist). Spider-man's best combos all revolved around landing a clean hit on a grounded opponent. His hitboxes are not great and he can't land his complex combos off airborne, and especially smaller, opponents. In vanilla, he could not combo off air throw (unless in corner with Wesker/Deadpool). He has no left/right mixup game. The only thing he can do is crossup with web zip/air dash midscreen, but it's negated by advancing guard. All he does is constant high-lows and good players will defend against it all day.

And now he doesn't even do huge damage anymore. If he gets an UWT reset he can, but if that ever became prominent, people would learn to beat it, because in reality, like, 90% of the cast can beat UWT resets, they just have to know how.

The only real buff that advances Spidey's tier position (as top level of play) is his new ability to combo off of air throws. This is the biggest advantage from his new OTG. Also, it probably doesn't work in the corner, but it's something. Otherwise, he's got a better pressure game now with his web cancels (slightly, web zip doesn't do godlike hitstun anymore), but his other buffs like an OTG really don't add very much.


I mean, the game isn't officially out yet, but I'd bet money that in 6 months there will be no Spider-Men in Top 8 of any large tournament.

 

[Karsticles]

Thanks for that Gunbo, I read the whole thing.

I think the tiers are still going to end up far more defined. People think that Spider-Man is being slept on but he's not. What distinguishes a top tier rushdown character (like Wolverine) from a low-tier (Spider-Man) is the ability to pick up combos off of literally any hit that you land. Spider-man's best combos all revolved around landing a clean hit on a grounded opponent. His hitboxes are not great and he can't land his complex combos off airborne, and especially smaller, opponents. In vanilla, he could not combo off air throw. He has no left/right mixup game. The only thing he can do is crossup with web zip/air dash midscreen, but it's negated by advancing guard. All he does is constant high-lows and good players will defend against it all day.

And now he doesn't even do huge damage anymore. If he gets an UWT reset he can, but if that ever became prominent, people would learn to beat it, because in reality, like, 90% of the cast can beat UWT resets, they just have to know how.

The only real buff that advances Spidey's tier position (as top level of play) is his new ability to combo off of air throws. This is the biggest advantage from his new OTG. Also, it probably doesn't work in the corner, but it's something. Otherwise, he's got a better pressure game now with his web cancels (slightly, web zip doesn't do godlike hitstun anymore), but his other buffs like an OTG really don't add very much.


I mean, the game isn't officially out yet, but I'd bet money that in 6 months there will be no Spider-Men in Top 8 of any large tournament.

Someone mark this for a blow up later! lol

 

[Nert]

Throw me on the GAF Scrub list for PSN: Nert23 - Nert

 

[shaowebb]

Haggar: Friend was playing it so this is 2nd hand impressions. Haggar is buffed. With an assist Haggar can convert into scary damage off of his throws and pile driver (he TOD'd me with Pile Drive plus an assist). The way to combo is assist, cr.H, pipe -> cancel into that Hoodlum launcher. His punching hyper does way more damage now as well. His assist is still godlike.. it beats 99% of stuff in the game and the 1% is an already active beam hyper on the screen. Hard knockdown removal is really a nerf to characters who took advantage of that (Wesker/Doom/Dante), for everyone else it's still good old S tier assist Haggar. Haggar is still a shit anchor but a problem at point when backed with a projectile assist to get in/combo with. Haggar has technology with air X factor too. Verdict: B tier (pretty much where he was before, if you played Haggar before you shouldn't be dropping him at all but rather try to play him up front more if the match up allows)

I guess the increased speed on his fall couples well with the OTG. My guess is he is meant to jump/superjump like always but is made more into an airthrow monster with these buffs. Good. If he could actually convert that shit maybe it'd been worth something other than a combo ender into hyper.

I still think he's gonna struggle to catch people though so pardon me for still being bitter. I'm a major fan and I stuck with him forever, but it was just too rough considering I was also using Ryu most times and making whole teams for Haggar still wasn't panning out in Vanilla. Haggar/Ghost Rider/ Firebrand might work though...

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

A good series coming up from fingercramp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=9tJvyBtzHXs

 

[BeautifulMemory]

Thanks for that Gunbo, I read the whole thing.

PS3 players, my PSN is Karsticles. I am not a scrub, but if anyone wants an opponent, I'm here. Make sure to get an invite to the GAF chat.

I demand tutoring from you, sir.

 

[QisTopTier]

I'll let my friend know who ToD's me with spider man off an air hit that he's not supposed to be able to do that.

I demand tutoring from you, sir.

You could play me and always learn how to fight against zoning.

 

[gunbo13]

Thanks for that Gunbo, I read the whole thing.

If only I knew anything close to that about UMvC3. I'm a big fan of watching the tourneys though.

 

[devastatorprime]

Does anyone have the link to that Insta-Level 5 Frank West combo that involved a triple broomsticks in the air combo?

This one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6iU0a71o3I&feature=player_embedded

 

[Mit-]

I'll let my friend know who ToD's me with spider man off an air hit that he's not supposed to be able to do that.

With what, a shortened combo that goes into 3 or 4 web throws? Maybe, but it's not gonna net him all that damage in Ultimate.

I don't know, words won't mean much to me as a Spidey player. Tourney results will and I'm confident he's not going to be anywhere near top placements in big tournaments down the line.

 

[Kyoufu]

Ok, if anyone else wants to put themselves on the scrub list, add to the list and keep it rolling since I'll be on Skyrim until my copy arrives (probably Thursday). Looking forward to some scrub matches.

Vergil/Wesker will be out for some scrub blood.

 

[QisTopTier]

With what, a shortened combo that goes into 3 or 4 web throws? Maybe, but it's not gonna net him all that damage in Ultimate.

I don't know, words won't mean much to me as a Spidey player. Tourney results will and I'm confident he's not going to be anywhere near top placements in big tournaments down the line.

off a single reset. I don't know the exact details cause I don't have any intention of ever learning spidey

 

[Anth0ny]

Jago and Yipes funnies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FER1VIn-Ssw&feature=ytfce

OH MY FUCKING GOD

the guy from LMFAO... looks exactly like Yipes. I thought I was the only one who saw this. *dead*

 

[GhostRidah]

Still undecided on my third for my main team, lame brains

 

[Mit-]

off a single reset. I don't know the exact details cause I don't have any intention of ever learning spidey

I already brought up the resets, but what characters do you use? Because Ultimate Web Throw (UWT) resets are avoidable by the majority of the cast. Maybe less in Ultimate though (a lot of sluggish characters had to make use of the air dash glitch).

 

[AnkiRendan]

They look so good together. I might use the Mei-Ling one, but for now it's just kind of awkward...

 

[QisTopTier]

I already brought up the resets, but what characters do you use? Because Ultimate Web Throw (UWT) resets are avoidable by the majority of the cast. Maybe less in Ultimate though (a lot of sluggish characters had to make use of the air dash glitch).

Taskmaster/Shuma/Sent

 

[Professor Beef]

I'm not a scrub, but I'm not that good either. I'm mid-tier, man.

 

[Neki]

I'm not a scrub, but I'm not that good either. I'm mid-tier, man.

you don't even own this game.

 

[Azure J]

Upload it to tinypic and resize it there? It's what I did

I dunno what's wrong with my internet fu lately that I didn't think of this or Professor Beef's suggestions. I just remembered my transparency breaking one time and tried to do the re-sizing myself. :lol

Anyways, main team:

Alternate version:

Edit: My posting quality takes a nosedive after 11PM.

 

[QisTopTier]

Shouldn't felicia be your Anchor

 

[BeautifulMemory]

I'll let my friend know who ToD's me with spider man off an air hit that he's not supposed to be able to do that.


You could play me and always learn how to fight against zoning.

Let's dooo it, I hate zoning! I rage like a Hulk against it. My friend beat me with regular phoenix just by zoning

What's your PSN?

 

[spindashing]

Or team Tropicana:

But after seeing...

I can't give up on Joe just yet. =)

Also, add me to the PSN scrub list: PSN: atrickcard

 

[kirblar]

Starting Scrub PS3 list:

PSN ID - GAF User Name

Kyoufu - Kyoufu
RobotZero - The Broken Ska Record
Dragon17013 - Degen
A Pretty Panda - FullFlej
JazzmanZ - Pixeltendo
Lyte Edge - lyteedge2

Kirblar - Kirblar

 

[QisTopTier]

Let's dooo it, I hate zoning! I rage like a Hulk against it. My friend beat me with regular phoenix just by zoning

What's your PSN?

Same as here? You wanted to wait til ultimate is out to play right?

 

[Degen]

Taskmaster and Hawkeye's DLC alts are definitely in the top 5

 

[BeautifulMemory]

Same as here? You wanted to wait til ultimate is out to play right?

Whatever works for you tbh, as I won't get Ultimate right away. Adding you right now.

PS your friend list is full

 

[kunonabi]

 

[B1gg_Randall]

OH MY FUCKING GOD

the guy from LMFAO... looks exactly like Yipes. I thought I was the only one who saw this. *dead*

I told my brother 2 weeks ago that dude look like Yipes lol...

 

[Mit-]

Taskmaster/Shuma/Sent

Shuma can air dash + jab, Taskmaster and Sent can air hyper, although I believe Sent can also air.M him out of it.

In Ultimate both can probably tech forward (no more auto-neutral-tech from web ball) and use an air attack to hit him, along with the rest of the cast that needed air dash glitch or lacked an air dash/huge hitbox attack/fast air hyper. Task can likely use web swing as an air dash to hit him now as well.

Now that I think about it, Spidey will have to predict forward/back techs in order to catch them. If they forward tech, he needs to dash back so everybody can't just hit him out of it, if they back tech he has to dash forward to even reach them (although the increased horizontal range might still catch, not sure yet).


I feel like UWT's biggest use in Ultimate will simply be to catch people pressing buttons in the air. Now that its range isn't garbage this should be possible more often, and with the right assist (more than just Wesker/Deadpool now that he can OTG himself) he can probably still pick up a combo off of it.


EDIT: I'll just post the link on UWT in vanilla: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph...rooooooow-everything-you-want-to-know.131660/

The only characters who can't escape are Chris, Haggar, Akuma, She-Hulk, Tron, Felicia, and Hsien-Ko. The rest of the entire cast can escape.

 

[smurfx]

damn udon taskmaster looks great. i hope capcom releases that costume pack soon.

 

[Azure J]

Shouldn't felicia be your Anchor

Drowsiness versus my post quality is a 10-0 matchup, I'm fray as hell right now.

 

[QisTopTier]

Whatever works for you tbh, as I won't get Ultimate right away. Adding you right now.

PS your friend list is full

LOL I'll go fix that
Just let me know when you want to play add me again in 5 minutes.

 

[Karsticles]

I demand tutoring from you, sir.

I'm nothing special, I just don't regard myself as a scrub. I'm open to play anyone who has a solid connection and is a good sport. If the odds are strongly against you, I'm happy to provide feedback. If I lose, I generally know why.

You could play me and always learn how to fight against zoning.

But that's what I do!

Since all the costumes are on disk, I don't know why they would have to delay releasing them.

 

[GotchaForce]

Never saw what the story was on Hawkeye's alt.

 

[QisTopTier]

Shuma can air dash + jab, Taskmaster and Sent can air hyper, although I believe Sent can also air.M him out of it.

Wut only thing I ever been able to do vs it is sent's air hyper. Everything else got snagged.

But that's what I do!

LOL Yeah but ours is totally different flavors of zoning xD

 

[Professor Beef]

you don't even own this game.

That doesn't mean I've never played it. Although on a scale of 1-10 (with 1 being scrub level), I would say I'm a 4.

Either way, add me to the PSN list. Same name as my GAF name, minus the space.

 

[Karsticles]

LOL Yeah but ours is totally different flavors of zoning xD

True, true. Whenever I find someone who tries to zone at the ground level, I just superjump over and over while calling Dark Harmonizer until they realize the chip damage they do when I mess up is not worth the 3 bars I just gained. I imagine I'd take a similar strategy against your Shuma-Gorath assist.

 

[BeautifulMemory]

I'm nothing special, I just don't regard myself as a scrub. I'm open to play anyone who has a solid connection and is a good sport. If the odds are strongly against you, I'm happy to provide feedback. If I lose, I generally know why.

I am a scrub for sure, masher by instinct. lol so any tips would be helpful

 

[BeautifulMemory]

LOL I'll go fix that
Just let me know when you want to play add me again in 5 minutes.

Would you like to play vanilla for just a bit? I got studying to do :/

btw I am securitypurpose

 

[QisTopTier]

True, true. Whenever I find someone who tries to zone at the ground level, I just superjump over and over while calling Dark Harmonizer until they realize the chip damage they do when I mess up is not worth the 3 bars I just gained. I imagine I'd take a similar strategy against your Shuma-Gorath assist.

I like when people super jump all day

 

[Dartastic]

I kinda wanna get some games in on Vanilla MvC3 on 360, as I don't have Ultimate yet. Anyone wanna play some?

 

[Banana Kid]

TEAM TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND THE AMERICAN WAY

 

[Parallax Scroll]

A good series coming up from fingercramp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=9tJvyBtzHXs

I'm looking forward to it for sure. =)

BTW, I can do the first two Isedelica combos. Sometimes. In training mode.

Working on the third.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

TEAM TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND THE AMERICAN WAY

http://i.imgur.com/XrvIZ.png[IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/B3LyZ.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
I can't be the only one who thinks he looks like Mel Gibson

 

[dankir]

I don't understand, the DLC costume for Zero is X??? WTF????

 

[Karsticles]

I am a scrub for sure, masher by instinct. lol so any tips would be helpful

Ah, I see. Well, we'll definitely play sometime if you would like.

I like when people super jump all day

I'm happy to trade 50 chip damage for a bar of meter. ;-)

TEAM TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND THE AMERICAN WAY

No Haggar...

I don't understand, the DLC costume for Zero is X??? WTF????

We call this "trolling".

 

[SolarPowered]

I kinda wanna get some games in on Vanilla MvC3 on 360, as I don't have Ultimate yet. Anyone wanna play some?

PM your gamertag.

I'm very rusty though.

 

[Mit-]

Wut only thing I ever been able to do vs it is sent's air hyper. Everything else got snagged.

Nah check the link up there. The startup on UWT is huge and he is very vulnerable. You have plenty of time out of that tech to airdash forward and hit, although the link recommends using the spiky ball move that moves him upward.


From checking out the Spidey forums on SRK they seem to echo my sentiments. No one is praising him as the next big rushdown character. He has a lot of weird nerfs to his combos, web throw scaling is almost never worth it in your combos, the OTG needs specific assists to be worth it (and you can't* do an air combo and OTG into Maximum Spider), etc etc. Best buffs I've seen are combo off air throw and combo after Crawler Assault.

 

[QisTopTier]

I'm happy to trade 50 chip damage for a bar of meter. ;-)

Who said you will be taking any chip damage, you are not my target in these situations