"God's Beard!"
Member
Yeah, my game locks up on the menu screen when I'm online and all kinds of stuff. It's probably my PS3 more than the connection.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Yeah, my game locks up on the menu screen when I'm online and all kinds of stuff. It's probably my PS3 more than the connection.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71015161]Yeah, my game locks up on the menu screen when I'm online and all kinds of stuff. It's probably my PS3 more than the connection.[/QUOTE]
It's happening to my buddies PS3 as well. He said it didn't start happening until the 4.41 update.....errrr.....whichever one came before the update that was bricking folks PS3's.
It's happening to my buddies PS3 as well. He said it didn't start happening until the 4.41 update.....errrr.....whichever one came before the update that was bricking folks PS3's.
I hate Haggar so much. I blame LAG.
I'm starting to like Dorm a lot. Ooo!
I still don't know how to use him for shit though...
He is wonderful, I should use him more often myself.
I like using the sparda bro's however I never use them because I couldnt never find a 3rd I liked. So i just end up using VIper/DOOM/Strider or some of my other weirder teams.
Anyone got an idea for a 3rd
He is wonderful, I should use him more often myself.
I like using the sparda bro's however I never use them because I couldnt never find a 3rd I liked. So i just end up using VIper/DOOM/Strider or some of my other weirder teams.
Anyone got an idea for a 3rd
With the Sparda bros?
Magneto
Strider
Viper
Zero
With the Sparda bros?
Magneto
Strider
Viper
Zero
Hmm The world could always use more Viper and Strider. I heard Zero is actually kind of hard to use though.
I ran the sparda bros with wesker for a while.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
I jumped into training mode yesterday to brush up on my rusty skills and was pleasantly surprised to find that I have retained some of my muscle memory. I can semi-consistently pull off an X-23 combo into a hyper, which is fun. However what little knowledge I had of Wesker and Dante's combos have disappeared completely, and I am no closer to cracking the secret of effectively using assists.
I'm currently running with an X-23 (Ankle Slice) / Dante (Jam Session) / Wesker (Samurai Edge) team. Thoughts on this lineup? Where should I start as far as learning combos and assists?
I'm currently running with an X-23 (Ankle Slice) / Dante (Jam Session) / Wesker (Samurai Edge) team. Thoughts on this lineup? Where should I start as far as learning combos and assists?
finalboss2
Member
I jumped into training mode yesterday to brush up on my rusty skills and was pleasantly surprised to find that I have retained some of my muscle memory. I can semi-consistently pull off an X-23 combo into a hyper, which is fun. However what little knowledge I had of Wesker and Dante's combos have disappeared completely, and I am no closer to cracking the secret of effectively using assists.
I'm currently running with an X-23 (Ankle Slice) / Dante (Jam Session) / Wesker (Samurai Edge) team. Thoughts on this lineup? Where should I start as far as learning combos and assists?
Honestly I'd put Dante last on Weasel shot, but I'm never a fan of wesker last.
EsotericManiac
Banned
learn how to combo from a assist at different heights as well as extending combos with assists
I like wesker first or last but never second :/
I like wesker first or last but never second :/
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
learn how to combo from a assist at different heights as well as extending combos with assists
How do I do this? Just call in an assist as the combo is ending and then start a new combo?
Honestly I'd put Dante last on Weasel shot, but I'm never a fan of wesker last.
Hmm I've always seen Wesker played first or last. Why do you recommend putting him second?
EsotericManiac
Banned
How do I do this? Just call in an assist as the combo is ending and then start a new combo?
Hmm I've always seen Wesker played first or last. Why do you recommend putting him second?
I think wesker is way better with XF3 than dante, but that's me.
im not totally familiar with X23 combos but you could OTG with wesker after a J.S and continue the combo. I believe X23 also has an OTG of her own. If you called Dante so his assist hits right after the OTG, you could get another launch out of it.
If you're using Jam Session, you'd probably want to practice jam session hitting the opponent from a jump or super jump and transitioning it to a full combo.
finalboss2
Member
Hmm I've always seen Wesker played first or last. Why do you recommend putting him second?
Well I'd rather Dante last so you at least have some kind of neutral assist, but I guess its how you want to play. A lot of people don't need an assist to play the game, so if you're cool with it then go nuts.
But I like Dante last for the assist, THC and I think he handles a lot more matchups better than Wesker. Again though, thats just me playing.
I mean right now I'm playing Viper/Dorm/Rocket Raccoon, so its not like I'm a god of team order suggestions haha.
Karsticles
Member
I think you have the right team order. However, it will be desirable to DHC Wesker in once Dante comes into play, because Wesker/Dante is better than Dante/Wesker. I think this team order is good because Dante has better incoming survivability options than Wesker. If you can get Dante into Devil Trigger, that's even better, since you have an invincible move to come in with and get out of mix-ups with.I jumped into training mode yesterday to brush up on my rusty skills and was pleasantly surprised to find that I have retained some of my muscle memory. I can semi-consistently pull off an X-23 combo into a hyper, which is fun. However what little knowledge I had of Wesker and Dante's combos have disappeared completely, and I am no closer to cracking the secret of effectively using assists.
I'm currently running with an X-23 (Ankle Slice) / Dante (Jam Session) / Wesker (Samurai Edge) team. Thoughts on this lineup? Where should I start as far as learning combos and assists?
You could go with Weasel Shot or Jam Session, but I think Jam Session is better for X-23 by far.
Karsticles
Member
Alright, since no one defended any of the bolded suggestions that I thought were no good, I have removed them from the consideration list. Today we will work out throw changes. TAC changes are not necessarily set in stone, so if folks want to discuss it still, it's welcome. Nothing is 100% set in stone until we send this list to Capcom. I am putting the full list here so people can begin to think about the other suggestions that have been added. Again, if your suggestion is not on here, it's because I missed it.
I have bolded the TAC changes because that is what we are looking at being the final version. If any of the four committee members (Me, GB, Dahbomb, and Zissou) disagree with them, speak up now so we can iron out the problem or make the change. I do have one change I thought of yesterday listed for TACs; I don't have strong feelings on it, I just think it would be neat and an improvement.
SYSTEM CHANGES:
TAC Changes:
*Cost 1 bar, always a guaranteed exchange in one of three directions.
*Meter gain/loss from directional choice removed.
*HSD returns to 0 after a TAC and builds normally from there.
*The TAC user cannot gain meter after a TAC until the opponent enters recovery (exception: Soul Drain, meter gain assists).
*Use A1/A2 for TACs instead of S?
Throw Changes:
*Throw tech window increased by 5 frames.
*You cannot be grabbed during tech recovery.
*Ground throw techs put one character-length distance between the two characters.
*Throws can only be initiated with f.H and b.H.
X-Factor Changes:
*XF2 and XF3 values decreased. XF3 becomes XF2, XF2 is “XF1.5”.
*XF1 is the only X-Factor; timer scales with characters left. Bonuses make up for character weaknesses.
Damage Changes:
*Damage reduced by roughly 1/2 to 1/3 across the board (chip damage buffed to 50% or so to ensure keepaway is still viable).
*Damage reduction by 1/3rd. Chip damage slightly rescaled. Normals chip less than specials. Timer increased by ~25% to 33%.
*Assist characters take less damage than before (still more than the point character). Damage scaling applies to them like normal characters in ALL situations.
*- Overall damage lowered to the "Low" setting as per training mode settings.
Combo Changes:
*Cannot mash Light chains on whiff. Can only do it on block or hit.
*HSD timer goes to full scaling faster. This will definitely reduce some of the lengthier combos in the game.
Assist Changes:
* - Assists depart with invul frames doing nothing if a combo has been initiated on the point character of the player who called said assist before they arrive on screen.
* - Assists cannot be called during wakeup frames or rolls.
*Cannot call assists a certain time after throw techs (it's a short window of cool down, this is mostly to prevent throw + assist option selects).
*Cannot call assists at super jump height when a combo is dropped/reset is attempted and cannot call assists during tech roll.
*When an assist begins recovery from knockdown, it is invincible until it exits the stage.
Other Changes:
*Incoming character falling arc adjusted so it's more vertical and less horizontal.. making it easier to block/react to cross up attempts. No more guard break set ups can be applied to an incoming character until that character has touched the ground or has done some action. Incoming characters need more help than this but it's hard to come up with something because if you give too much then you are giving a character like Vergil or Strider more chance to make a comeback.
*Neutral tech recovery is now on par with directional tech recoveries.
*Character deaths do not cause inputs to drop.
*Input reading changed: holding forward/back is no longer a forward/back input in terms of moves. Example: holding back, and then doing qcb, currently gives one a reverse dragon punch motion. In general, directional input buffering is toned down a bit.
*Raw tags no longer hit overhead.
I have bolded the TAC changes because that is what we are looking at being the final version. If any of the four committee members (Me, GB, Dahbomb, and Zissou) disagree with them, speak up now so we can iron out the problem or make the change. I do have one change I thought of yesterday listed for TACs; I don't have strong feelings on it, I just think it would be neat and an improvement.
SYSTEM CHANGES:
TAC Changes:
*Cost 1 bar, always a guaranteed exchange in one of three directions.
*Meter gain/loss from directional choice removed.
*HSD returns to 0 after a TAC and builds normally from there.
*The TAC user cannot gain meter after a TAC until the opponent enters recovery (exception: Soul Drain, meter gain assists).
*Use A1/A2 for TACs instead of S?
Throw Changes:
*Throw tech window increased by 5 frames.
*You cannot be grabbed during tech recovery.
*Ground throw techs put one character-length distance between the two characters.
*Throws can only be initiated with f.H and b.H.
X-Factor Changes:
*XF2 and XF3 values decreased. XF3 becomes XF2, XF2 is “XF1.5”.
*XF1 is the only X-Factor; timer scales with characters left. Bonuses make up for character weaknesses.
Damage Changes:
*Damage reduced by roughly 1/2 to 1/3 across the board (chip damage buffed to 50% or so to ensure keepaway is still viable).
*Damage reduction by 1/3rd. Chip damage slightly rescaled. Normals chip less than specials. Timer increased by ~25% to 33%.
*Assist characters take less damage than before (still more than the point character). Damage scaling applies to them like normal characters in ALL situations.
*- Overall damage lowered to the "Low" setting as per training mode settings.
Combo Changes:
*Cannot mash Light chains on whiff. Can only do it on block or hit.
*HSD timer goes to full scaling faster. This will definitely reduce some of the lengthier combos in the game.
Assist Changes:
* - Assists depart with invul frames doing nothing if a combo has been initiated on the point character of the player who called said assist before they arrive on screen.
* - Assists cannot be called during wakeup frames or rolls.
*Cannot call assists a certain time after throw techs (it's a short window of cool down, this is mostly to prevent throw + assist option selects).
*Cannot call assists at super jump height when a combo is dropped/reset is attempted and cannot call assists during tech roll.
*When an assist begins recovery from knockdown, it is invincible until it exits the stage.
Other Changes:
*Incoming character falling arc adjusted so it's more vertical and less horizontal.. making it easier to block/react to cross up attempts. No more guard break set ups can be applied to an incoming character until that character has touched the ground or has done some action. Incoming characters need more help than this but it's hard to come up with something because if you give too much then you are giving a character like Vergil or Strider more chance to make a comeback.
*Neutral tech recovery is now on par with directional tech recoveries.
*Character deaths do not cause inputs to drop.
*Input reading changed: holding forward/back is no longer a forward/back input in terms of moves. Example: holding back, and then doing qcb, currently gives one a reverse dragon punch motion. In general, directional input buffering is toned down a bit.
*Raw tags no longer hit overhead.
Karst you should remove the TAC stuff in the throw section.
The only thing I will add for throws and teching is that you can't be allowed to call assists until at least 100 frames after throw teching. This prevents throw + assist OS especially stuff like Wolverine Dive Kick OS + Akuma Tatsu. If he gets the throw, no Tatsu comes out. If he gets a tech then Tatsu comes out instantly and locks them down allowing you to continue pressure after someone techs you. This applies to Hulk Lariat and used to be extremely devastating with She Hulk and Tron assist.
Edit: Nevermind I see that change is listed in the assist section. In that case I have nothing to add.
The only thing I will add for throws and teching is that you can't be allowed to call assists until at least 100 frames after throw teching. This prevents throw + assist OS especially stuff like Wolverine Dive Kick OS + Akuma Tatsu. If he gets the throw, no Tatsu comes out. If he gets a tech then Tatsu comes out instantly and locks them down allowing you to continue pressure after someone techs you. This applies to Hulk Lariat and used to be extremely devastating with She Hulk and Tron assist.
Edit: Nevermind I see that change is listed in the assist section. In that case I have nothing to add.
Karsticles
Member
Added to the list.I would like to suggest that raw tags no longer hit overhead.
Removed - good catch. Actually, that list was a sloppy copy/paste; I fixed it up to represent all the ideas we have more clearly.Karst you should remove the TAC stuff in the throw section.
K.The only thing I will add for throws and teching is that you can't be allowed to call assists until at least 100 frames after throw teching. This prevents throw + assist OS especially stuff like Wolverine Dive Kick OS + Akuma Tatsu. If he gets the throw, no Tatsu comes out. If he gets a tech then Tatsu comes out instantly and locks them down allowing you to continue pressure after someone techs you. This applies to Hulk Lariat and used to be extremely devastating with She Hulk and Tron assist.
Edit: Nevermind I see that change is listed in the assist section. In that case I have nothing to add.
Karsticles
Member
I tweeted him about our effort.How the hell did we all forget about overhead raw tag...? lol
Also Ono said he would try to push for a UMVC3 update.
How the hell did we all forget about overhead raw tag...? lol
Also Ono said he would try to push for a UMVC3 update.
Oh my God, is it time for It's_Happening.gif?
The TAC changes all look great so far. What's today's discussion, Assists or Grabs?
Today's discussion is throw + throw tech.
I got nothing to add because everything looks fine for me as far as throw + tech go. Honestly TACs were the ones that were the most controversial... IMO if there was an actual post the one we suggested would never go through. Capcom is not gonna scrap the TAC counter animation or the color coated non sense. They will probably just tweak the HSD so you can't do infinites and call it a day.
I got nothing to add because everything looks fine for me as far as throw + tech go. Honestly TACs were the ones that were the most controversial... IMO if there was an actual post the one we suggested would never go through. Capcom is not gonna scrap the TAC counter animation or the color coated non sense. They will probably just tweak the HSD so you can't do infinites and call it a day.
The only thing I'd add to the throw list is that you can't call an assist for a certain amount of time after teching a throw to avoid shenanigans like Wolvy/Tatsu, Viper/Jam Sesson, Magneto/Plasma Beam. Dah's already got that covered though.
I also wanted to note that I like the A1/A2 switch. Would it also allow a person to TAC to the character in each slot?
SYSTEM CHANGES:
TAC Changes:
*Cost 1 bar, always a guaranteed exchange in one of three directions.
*Meter gain/loss from directional choice removed.
*HSD returns to 0 after a TAC and builds normally from there.
*The TAC user cannot gain meter after a TAC until the opponent enters recovery (exception: Soul Drain, meter gain assists).
*Use A1/A2 for TACs instead of S?
I also wanted to note that I like the A1/A2 switch. Would it also allow a person to TAC to the character in each slot?
That's the idea. You can still do this though but it uses up one of your assists.I also wanted to note that I like the A1/A2 switch. Would it also allow a person to TAC to the character in each slot?
Karsticles
Member
The fact is that is Capcom won't scrap the random directions, they might look at other stuff we suggested. For example, Capcom might take the hint that taking away meter through TACs is not cool, or that meter gain after TACs isn't a good idea, etc. Just sending the message that the community feels this way about TACs will also impact future fighting games. If we just say that we want them to have longer break periods, CAS might have TACs in it. If we suggest this, maybe CAS will implement some of our ideas. While we're working on Marvel patch ideas, I also consider us to be sending a general message about fighting games as well here.Today's discussion is throw + throw tech.
I got nothing to add because everything looks fine for me as far as throw + tech go. Honestly TACs were the ones that were the most controversial... IMO if there was an actual post the one we suggested would never go through. Capcom is not gonna scrap the TAC counter animation or the color coated non sense. They will probably just tweak the HSD so you can't do infinites and call it a day.
That's the idea, yep.I also wanted to note that I like the A1/A2 switch. Would it also allow a person to TAC to the character in each slot?
"God's Beard!"
Member
I think raw tags and TACs should be S + A1/A2. No more holding. This also gets rid of executional issues like accidental TACs during Drill Claws or Magneto EMP loops.
I would personally keep raw tags overhead but it doesn't matter to me either way.
I would personally keep raw tags overhead but it doesn't matter to me either way.
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71082146]I think raw tags and TACs should be S + A1/A2. No more holding. This also gets rid of executional issues like accidental TACs during Drill Claws or Magneto EMP loops.
I would personally keep raw tags overhead but it doesn't matter to me either way.[/QUOTE]
Why can't TACs just be A1/A2? Why is S needed for more complexity?
Also, what's wrong with the current raw tag input?
I would personally keep raw tags overhead but it doesn't matter to me either way.[/QUOTE]
Why can't TACs just be A1/A2? Why is S needed for more complexity?
Also, what's wrong with the current raw tag input?
*Neutral tech recovery is now on par with directional tech recoveries.
I don't think this is explained clearly. The neutral tech in the air is completely fine and should remain as is, and saying on par implies that the tech would take as long as the directional techs. The grounded neutral tech should be slightly slower, not really a dramatic change at all.
*Character deaths do not cause inputs to drop.
Upon thinking about this, it makes sense to not get undesired hypers after killing a character (which is probably why they made the change) so this should only happen when two characters are on the screen and you kill one of them.
They will probably just tweak the HSD so you can't do infinites and call it a day.
This is what I expect, I don't think the other stuff is something they would actually do.
Karsticles
Member
I thought the point of the suggestion was that grounded neutral techs are too fast, and you wanted them brought in line with the directional techs. But I understand you now to be saying that you are okay with them being faster, just not as fast as they currently are. Why not make it the same as directional techs?I don't think this is explained clearly. The neutral tech in the air is completely fine and should remain as is, and saying on par implies that the tech would take as long as the directional techs. The grounded neutral tech should be slightly slower, not really a dramatic change at all.
I've never had a problem with it, but you said it messes up Dante combos. Can you give me a particular scenario so I can understand it better? I'm not a Dante player.Upon thinking about this, it makes sense to not get undesired hypers after killing a character (which is probably why they made the change) so this should only happen when two characters are on the screen and you kill one of them.
Probably not, but it still sends the right message.This is what I expect, I don't think the other stuff is something they would actually do.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Assists should cease to do anything, and all assist projectiles should immediately disappear, if the point character is hit.
If I hit you, you mashing on A1 or A2 should not save you. Simple as that.
If I hit you, you mashing on A1 or A2 should not save you. Simple as that.
That's already one of the suggested changes. It will basically operate like MVC2 where if you get hit while an assist is coming out, the assist is immediately disabled and made invincible (with a taunt animation) after which it goes back out.Assists should cease to do anything, and all assist projectiles should immediately disappear, if the point character is hit.
If I hit you, you mashing on A1 or A2 should not save you. Simple as that.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Why can't TACs just be A1/A2? Why is S needed for more complexity?
Also, what's wrong with the current raw tag input?
Same thing that MVC2 players complained about day one, you can't do it on reaction.
The S + A1/2 thing is just to make it a universal exchange input. Not completely necessary.
Assists should cease to do anything, and all assist projectiles should immediately disappear, if the point character is hit.
If I hit you, you mashing on A1 or A2 should not save you. Simple as that.
The whole game is designed so that assists cover your character's weaknesses. A1 and 2 SHOULD save you, they're fucking called assists.
That's not what he is saying. He is saying that if he gets a hit on the point character and then an assist comes in and combo breaks you, that's bad. That didn't happen in MVC2 because if you got a hit on someone while let's say CapCom was coming in, he wouldn't blow the combo up he would just come in taunt and leave instead.The whole game is designed so that assists cover your character's weaknesses. A1 and 2 SHOULD save you, they're fucking called assists.
This also cuts down on happy birthdays dramatically. If an assist is already active and then you get a hit on someone and it breaks you, that's fine because that's pretty much a legitimate bait/set up.
Karsticles
Member
No, he also said that projectiles should disappear. So he thinks that if Magneto calls Sentinel and tridashes in, and I anti-air Magneto, the drones should disappear as well. I can't back that.That's not what he is saying. He is saying that if he gets a hit on the point character and then an assist comes in and combo breaks you, that's bad. That didn't happen in MVC2 because if you got a hit on someone while let's say CapCom was coming in, he wouldn't blow the combo up he would just come in taunt and leave instead.
This also cuts down on happy birthdays dramatically. If an assist is already active and then you get a hit on someone and it breaks you, that's fine because that's pretty much a legitimate bait/set up.
If Magneto gets hit right as Sentinel is coming in, then Sentinel should get disabled.No, he also said that projectiles should disappear. So he thinks that if Magneto calls Sentinel and tridashes in, and I anti-air Magneto, the drones should disappear as well. I can't back that.
If Drones were already out and Magneto goes in, gets hit... Drones should still be active.
So I think we need to make some clarification on this. I think once you earned the assist call you should get the benefit of the assist.
Karsticles
Member
Agreed, but I think he's saying that the drones should disappear at any time, because if you hit the assist character right when he/she comes in, the projectile will not have appeared yet. So that statement could only apply in the context I interpreted it as. There are no assists that produce projectiles before the assist appears on the screen.If Magneto gets hit right as Sentinel is coming in, then Sentinel should get disabled.
If Drones were already out and Magneto goes in, gets hit... Drones should still be active.
So I think we need to make some clarification on this. I think once you earned the assist call you should get the benefit of the assist.
I thought the point of the suggestion was that grounded neutral techs are too fast, and you wanted them brought in line with the directional techs. But I understand you now to be saying that you are okay with them being faster, just not as fast as they currently are. Why not make it the same as directional techs?
The problem is that characters go from lying on the ground to standing up very quickly without an easy to see animation or anything. Have you ever played Melee by any chance? While the tech speeds are different for every character and neutral techs are much faster than rolling, neutral techs still have a very obvious animation and aren't so fast that characters can stand up and press buttons faster than people can react to.
If you make neutral techs take as long as tech rolling then they become an incredibly bad option. Even if ground neutral techs were left the same speed, giving them a more obvious animation would help with reacting to them.
I've never had a problem with it, but you said it messes up Dante combos. Can you give me a particular scenario so I can understand it better? I'm not a Dante player.
If you kill someone with Volcano during any level of XF you can't cancel into Beehive, meaning that if you killed the assist character you can't continue with the combo on the point character. You can actually mash M and the Beehive will come out when not in XF, so I guess this could be fixed specifically for Dante, but I would assume it causes problems with strict cancels somewhere else as well.
Karsticles
Member
I have played Melee, and I understand you better now.The problem is that characters go from lying on the ground to standing up very quickly without an easy to see animation or anything. Have you ever played Melee by any chance? While the tech speeds are different for every character and neutral techs are much faster than rolling, neutral techs still have a very obvious animation and aren't so fast that characters can stand up and press buttons faster than people can react to.
If you make neutral techs take as long as tech rolling then they become an incredibly bad option. Even if ground neutral techs were left the same speed, giving them a more obvious animation would help with reacting to them.
Are you sure it's not an X-Factor problem? I'm reminded of when I play Morrigan, in non-XF I can do s.H and cancel it into c.H at any time. But in certain levels of X-Factor, s.H cannot be canceled until it completes for some reason. It's truly bizarre.If you kill someone with Volcano during any level of XF you can't cancel into Beehive, meaning that if you killed the assist character you can't continue with the combo on the point character. You can actually mash M and the Beehive will come out when not in XF, so I guess this could be fixed specifically for Dante, but I would assume it causes problems with strict cancels somewhere else as well.
X-Factor Changes:
*X-Factor now costs 1 bar, no limit on uses, only provides the cancel effect.
Make it cost two bars. It's essentially a mulligan as is.
Had to look up what mulligan meant... lol.
That XF change will never go through. Mostly because it will make Vergil obsolete while make Zero SSS tier.
Also I have devised a roster for next week in terms of which characters we should be doing:
Phoenix (because we need to get her out of the way)
Storm
Shuma Gorath
Zero
Wolverine
AKA EVO edition
That XF change will never go through. Mostly because it will make Vergil obsolete while make Zero SSS tier.
Also I have devised a roster for next week in terms of which characters we should be doing:
Phoenix (because we need to get her out of the way)
Storm
Shuma Gorath
Zero
Wolverine
AKA EVO edition
Karsticles
Member
While I abandoned trying to support the change because it doesn't make sense without being coupled with my assist changes, which are too extreme, I disagree with you.Had to look up what mulligan meant... lol.
That XF change will never go through. Mostly because it will make Vergil obsolete while make Zero SSS tier.
X-Factor being meter-cancelable means a lot of characters can combo in new ways, which hurts Zero. For example, Dormammu could hypothetically do 1D2C XFC teleport and such, which makes Zero's life harder.
Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore. Is there anything else to talk about with throws, or does everyone love these changes?
I really think it's best if we split the characters and do 1 high profile character, 1 mid profile character, and 1 low profile character every week. The high profile characters are bound to be more controversial, so we should spread them out more.Had to look up what mulligan meant... lol.
That XF change will never go through. Mostly because it will make Vergil obsolete while make Zero SSS tier.
Also I have devised a roster for next week in terms of which characters we should be doing:
Phoenix (because we need to get her out of the way)
Storm
Shuma Gorath
Zero
Wolverine
AKA EVO edition
That XF change will never go through. Mostly because it will make Vergil obsolete while make Zero SSS tier.
That's what I had in mind. It would let characters let him do all kinds of unsafe fuckboy shit because they can just cancel the animation for a bar. I couldn't even imagine the combo possibilities that would be available if all you had to do was spend a bar for a cancel.
I always thought that the cancel properties of X-factor was one of the more useful constituents of the feature. A bar alone is way too cheap for that kind of utility.
Karsticles
Member
What would be interesting for MvC4 is if a cancel were attached to a meter that recharges over time.
A lot of characters can't punish Zero with XF because of that Buster. And Zero never needs XF to begin with so he can save the meter for other stuff. Other characters like Dorm will have to always think about saving meter for either using Stalking Flare or XFC. Characters that can operate on low meter will obviously be favored here.
Where as with Vergil it's always a battle of what to spend your meter on and people love saving that XFC against Vergil. Getting no boosts from XF for Vergil means he wouldn't be a top tier anchor (actually no one really would) so he would have to be played on point or second where people will be trying to XFC him all day long.
Would be cool to have but not in this game... it would be a different game altogether. Like a team with Morrigan would have a lot of XFCs on deck for clutch situations and of course... it would make Phoenix completely obsolete.
IMO there isn't even anything controversial about Zero and Wolverine, the fixes on those characters are easy. The most controversial character on that list is Phoenix and hell you can spend 2 days on her if you want. Phoenix just had to be the first character we change.
Where as with Vergil it's always a battle of what to spend your meter on and people love saving that XFC against Vergil. Getting no boosts from XF for Vergil means he wouldn't be a top tier anchor (actually no one really would) so he would have to be played on point or second where people will be trying to XFC him all day long.
Would be cool to have but not in this game... it would be a different game altogether. Like a team with Morrigan would have a lot of XFCs on deck for clutch situations and of course... it would make Phoenix completely obsolete.
I did 2 high/top tier, 2 mid tier and 1 low tier. Anything below 5 characters is way too low for a week, we can easily do one character in a day.I really think it's best if we split the characters and do 1 high profile character, 1 mid profile character, and 1 low profile character every week. The high profile characters are bound to be more controversial, so we should spread them out more.
IMO there isn't even anything controversial about Zero and Wolverine, the fixes on those characters are easy. The most controversial character on that list is Phoenix and hell you can spend 2 days on her if you want. Phoenix just had to be the first character we change.
What would be interesting for MvC4 is if a cancel were attached to a meter that recharges over time.
That seems a little absurd, but I guess it would depend on the recharge rate.
Roman cancels are limited in these games for a reason. Burst mechanics are similarly limited, and you can't combo off of them unless you use them offensively. X-factor is a roman cancel + a burst/guard cancel... ridiculously potent and incredibly castrating for offensive characters.
SolarKnight
Member
So, the discussion of a team of Vergil with Spitfire made me start thinking about running a Nova/Vergil/Rocket secondary team to go along with my other Nova/____/Rocket teams. What do you guys think of it?
At the very least it has Vergil+Nova unblockables and a way to make combos out of Vergil's ground throw and Helm Breaker.
At the very least it has Vergil+Nova unblockables and a way to make combos out of Vergil's ground throw and Helm Breaker.
shadowstar
Member
I have a side team of Doom/Frank/Vergil and I want to replace Vergil with Dante so I've decided to finally sit down and learn him. I've come to really enjoy point Doom and I love the pick ups off Jam Session and the incoming with Frank. I have no idea how his combos should flow. Anyone have any tips for some basic Dante?
SolarKnight
Member
That sounds like a legit team. Honestly on that team I would even run point Vergil (Taekua style) against certain match ups.
The inspiration was watching Taekua during EVO casuals + those posts actually (he actually wasn't doing that well after a while and kept losing money matches iirc though).
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
You guys are forgetting the lamest change from Vanilla to Ultimate.
Fuck mashing during hypers. I say this as a person who mashes constantly.
Fuck mashing during hypers. I say this as a person who mashes constantly.
For Dante, it's because the style cancel window for Volcano in X-Factor is reduced due to the speed increase. Since the window is smaller, the freeze frame causes the input to be eaten up. It's dumb.Are you sure it's not an X-Factor problem? I'm reminded of when I play Morrigan, in non-XF I can do s.H and cancel it into c.H at any time. But in certain levels of X-Factor, s.H cannot be canceled until it completes for some reason. It's truly bizarre.
In fact, X-Factor speed increase should not mess with the active frames of moves at all. It's why Strider gets a reduced cr.H range in X-Factor, and why(for some odd reason) Dante's cr.M has zero range in XF2(but only XF2).
"God's Beard!"
Member
What would be interesting for MvC4 is if a cancel were attached to a meter that recharges over time.
You mean like Bursts in P4A?