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[Killa Sasa]

I am actually surprised no one has started using Joe + Doom yet. Seems like the most annoying shit ever. Put in Vergil or Morrigan in there... GODLIKE!

Better players than me can probably chime in, but Joe/Doom is pretty nice since at the very least you get time to charge up Voomerangs for chip nonsense. My Doom is worse than my Raccoon though, so I never use him.

Pretty surprised it hasn't been established yet too. As soon as Morridoom took their place and then Joes started popping up, I basically thought "well, this can be just as effective/overwhelming if someone takes the time to learn it." Joe has a lot more go-to invincibility than Morrigan too.

 

[Sayah]

Well missiles can't be mashed but I agree with everything else in that post. Too bad that missiles in fact IS a godlike combo extender for some characters.

Well, the missiles assist takes a while to complete so I don't mean mashing as in you are beating down on the L1/R1 button repeatedly. More so mean that it can be used mindlessly outside of a combo. Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. lol

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Beef please start using Missiles so I can send a Piercing Bolt right through that stupid stove face.

 

[Professor Beef]

Pretty surprised it hasn't been established yet too. As soon as Morridoom took their place and then Joes started popping up, I basically thought "well, this can be just as effective/overwhelming if someone takes the time to learn it." Joe has a lot more go-to invincibility than Morrigan too.

Joe doesn't do nearly as much damage as Morrigan. He's best at point helping to level up Frank, or with an OTG assist to spread debuffs to the enemy team. Or with Spencer/Taskmaster if you want to do that V-Bomb tech. Morrigan pretty much outclasses him everywhere else, which is sadly where it counts.

Beef please start using Missiles so I can send a Piercing Bolt right through that stupid stove face.

If I ever use Doom against you, then it means I've already given up.

 

[Karsticles]

Well, the missiles assist takes a while to complete so I don't mean mashing as in you are beating down on the L1/R1 button repeatedly. More so mean that it can be used mindlessly outside of a combo. Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. lol

The assist is very hard to call safely in some matchups. I usually blow Hidden Missiles up with Dormammu.

 

[Dahbomb]

Joe can just throw those charged Boomerangs all day with missiles backing him up. Get someone to block missiles and its an overhead into TAC attempt then Doom combo.

Edit: Actually NVM its discussed already.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Doom is my favorite character to play against as Hawkeye. It's just too fun of a matchup.

 

[Karsticles]

Viewtiful Joe can't do as well as Morrigan with Doom because he can't outzone some other keepaway characters. Morrigan has both Astral Vision and the ability to control the angle and placement of her fireballs to control the match, and Viewtiful Joe has neither of these. Morrigan is also extremely safe while in the air doing her thing. Viewtiful Joe has to stay in the air throwing his Voomerangs, but he can't save his butt when he gets nailed with a punishing hyper.

It's not a bad combination, but I don't think it's on the same level of contention. Basically, every matchup that even gives Morrigan+Doom a hard time will dominate Viewtiful Joe + Doom.

Doom is my favorite character to play against as Hawkeye. It's just too fun of a matchup.

You mean you like the free win, right? Are there any zoning matchups Doom wins?

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I don't know. "Slaughter". Whatever you want to call it it's pretty fun.

 

[Karsticles]

I don't know. "Slaughter". Whatever you want to call it it's pretty fun.

"I summon the power! RUN! RUN!!!"
"You have no hope!" *zapzapzap*

He ought to have listened to the advice he was given.

 

[Ogrekiller]

james chen and justin wong weigh in:

James Chen ‏@jchensor

.@NoelBHungry To be honest, Morrigan teams shut down other top tier COMMON teams but there are a LOT of unexplored teams that beat her IMO.

Justin Wong Justin Wong ‏@JWonggg

@jchensor @noelbhungry I don't think so. I think she beats at least 70% of the teams free

 

[Karsticles]

james chen and justin wong weigh in:

James Chen's opinion means nothing. JWong seems to be giving a non-response, since what really matters is what portion of that 30% of non-free teams can beat her consistently.

Even now, with teams that Morrigan supposedly beats "for free", like Noel Brown's, the level of play of ChrisG's opponent is clearly not on his level. Too many dropped opportunities with a very basic character, missed Frank West opportunities, etc. There were at least two occasions where Frank West had an easy AA hyper on Morrigan and Noel Brown just didn't take it because he doesn't have a punishing mindset, he has a rushdown one. So he misses opportunities. I'm not harping on him, I'm just saying that ChrisG is on another level of play from the rest of the world, and until I see people playing with the level of perfection ChrisG is putting out, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about his teams.

 

[JeTmAn81]

You mean you like the free win, right? Are there any zoning matchups Doom wins?

I feel he does well against a zoning Magneto. Also, Haggar.

 

[Tornado Condor]

Not sure who caught the curle moustache tournament today but i can safely say doom missiles assist is bullshit.

I don't care who or what denies it but this assist, and to a lesser extent Vajra, is game breaking. Assist are called assist because they assist you in defeating your opponent, not give you the whole fucking game.

Although i didn't watch the whole tournament, i watched some fights such as TA Moons and that new tech was impressive and hype as hell. You could see by the reactions that this shit got people hype without the need of stupid shit like missiles. Then i watched ChrisG defeat motherfuckers left and right and take the whole tournament. But why? Sure, he's a great player but without missiles he probably wouldn't have won the tourney. Every time he played the matches were boring as hell and always the same BS.

When i play online and i see someone using doom i know for sure they're going to be using missiles because they are terrible players who can't win without that assist. I respect the hell out of someone who uses doom with the plasma or rocks assist.

All in all, fuck this game.

 

[Ogrekiller]

James Chen's opinion means nothing. JWong seems to be giving a non-response, since what really matters is what portion of that 30% of non-free teams can beat her consistently.

Even now, with teams that Morrigan supposedly beats "for free", like Noel Brown's, the level of play of ChrisG's opponent is clearly not on his level. Too many dropped opportunities with a very basic character, missed Frank West opportunities, etc. There were at least two occasions where Frank West had an easy AA hyper on Morrigan and Noel Brown just didn't take it because he doesn't have a punishing mindset, he has a rushdown one. So he misses opportunities. I'm not harping on him, I'm just saying that ChrisG is on another level of play from the rest of the world, and until I see people playing with the level of perfection ChrisG is putting out, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about his teams.

See, I disagree on that. The tools a craftsman uses are equally important as the skill of the craftsman himself. The fact that JRosa, a decidedly mediocre player was able to get top 3 over players such as moons, dieminion, predator, rayray, etc speaks volumes. No, he did not beat Noel Brown. But did he just get lucky? Or is Morrigan really that big of a problem?

 

[Azure J]

See, I know how derpy Vajra is, but I can't ever get behind the idea of it being game breaking. For all of its benefits, it comes with a glaring weakness in that it isn't a disjointed attack coming at you but rather Strider himself. A bad call on that assist in particular can very easily turn into a complete reversal of momentum. At the very least, playing Smurf has really made me intensely more guarded about using the assist in the neutral or for mixup attempts.

Hidden Missiles however has always been bustedness. Just gotta learn to stay away or build teams that can pop him on first sight.

 

[BeautifulMemory]

Not sure who caught the curle moustache tournament today but i can safely say doom missiles assist is bullshit.

I don't care who or what denies it but this assist, and to a lesser extent Vajra, is game breaking. Assist are called assist because they assist you in defeating your opponent, not give you the whole fucking game.

Although i didn't watch the whole tournament, i watched some fights such as TA Moons and that new tech was impressive and hype as hell. You could see by the reactions that this shit got people hype without the need of stupid shit like missiles. Then i watched ChrisG defeat motherfuckers left and right and take the whole tournament. But why? Sure, he's a great player but without missiles he probably wouldn't have won the tourney. Every time he played the matches were boring as hell and always the same BS.

When i play online and i see someone using doom i know for sure they're going to be using missiles because they are terrible players who can't win without that assist. I respect the hell out of someone who uses doom with the plasma or rocks assist.

All in all, fuck this game.

It's kind of funny that this is similar how I felt when Champ won Evo and I saw missiles bailing him out left and right.

Nevertheless, I think the greater challenge is to see how people will adapt, in either changing their approaches or adopting new teams. Credit to Chris G for trying out so many different teams since the game came out. And at Evo we saw he still had a counter team against Champ and Justin. I don't feel in general that others have adapted as much.

 

[Tornado Condor]

See, I know how derpy Vajra is, but I can't ever get behind the idea of it being game breaking. For all of its benefits, it comes with a glaring weakness in that it isn't a disjointed attack coming at you but rather Strider himself. A bad call on that assist in particular can very easily turn into a complete reversal of momentum. At the very least, playing Smurf has really made me intensely more guarded about using the assist in the neutral or for mixup attempts.

Hidden Missiles however has always been bustedness. Just gotta learn to stay away or build teams that can pop him on first sight.

It's not as bad as missiles but still pretty bad. I always try to catch the assist with Super Nova or Sphere Flame but not only is the timing tough but you also have to worry about your opponent hitting you from either side.

 

[Professor Beef]

I think Missiles is one of the very few projectiles that stays out there after being hit. I can't think of any besides it. H Sentinel Drones and...Hadokens?

 

[BeautifulMemory]

Now Wong and Chris are debating on twitter how broken Morrigan is and how "free" other people looked tonight can be attributed to Chris or Morrigan

 

[smurfx]

you know what was fun today? this strange player did his hyper 3 times and all times i lariat right through them without taking damage and i was at a pixel of health. didn't know lariat would outlast it but now i can plan strategies around it.

 

[Sigmaah]

Lariat is broken too, fuck that move/assist.

 

[smurfx]

Lariat is broken too, fuck that move/assist.

 

[Sigmaah]

Viscant claims Morr/Vergil/Doom is the best team in the game for now. I dunno about that... Only ChrisG makes them good because he's the only one who plays that team and knows how to play them very well. If it was the best, errrrrbody would be using that team. We'll if ppl bandwagon soon, I don't think it'll happen though.


Edit: LMFAO smurf, FUCK HAGGAR AND HIS BROKEN ASS HITBOXES AND LARIAT.

 

[Tornado Condor]

Lariat is broken too, fuck that move/assist.

The assist is worse. I've played matches where the opponent waits until i approach him and then he calls the lariat assist. The fuck is that shit?

 

[Solune]

I like how we're at the stage of broken assists again when it's been discussed that people need to get in the habit of punishing Missiles, especially since Doom is vulnerable for a long period. Beams handle Missiles, obviously it's hard if you're in blockstun forever from Vergil/Doom, he has to be handled before that part ever comes into play.

I don't think Morrigan/Vergil/Doom is the best team in the game, but it's certainly a top tier team that when played flawlessly the other player won't be able to play, but alot of teams have that ability too, namely Zero May Cry.

Chris G currently plays at a higher level than everyone else, he has top tier blocking, teching/airthrowing, and has the highest conversion rate from stray hits. I ain't talking about ToDs because his team doesn't need to be played in that fashion. I mean he is a complete player and replacing Akuma with Vergil was a great decision.

 

[Azure J]

What I'd really like to see is a compilation of the teams that "don't let you play" with a break down of how they accomplish it and what aspects of the game they exploit most. Like between these 4:

Viper/Dante or Vergil/Strider
Zero/Dante/Vergil
Morrigan/Doom/Vergil
Magneto/Dormammu/Doom

 

[Zissou]

What I'd really like to see is a compilation of the teams that "don't let you play" with a break down of how they accomplish it and what aspects of the game they exploit most. Like between these 4:

Viper/Dante or Vergil/Strider
Zero/Dante/Vergil
Morrigan/Doom/Vergil
Magneto/Dormammu/Doom

I think of those only the Zero and Morrigan teams qualify. Morrigan for obvious reasons and Zero touches you once and if you lose two coin flips, you lose the game. The others are oppressive, but feel more beatable, even though the odds may be stacked against you.

 

[mr. puppy]

saw this on twitter, Chrisg is awesome:

Noel Brown ‏@NoelBHungry
Morrigan bullet hell is almost impossible to fight with my team but I'll figure out a way! Mark my words! Congrats to @NYChrisG though.

@jchensor
.@NoelBHungry To be honest, Morrigan teams shut down other top tier COMMON teams but there are a LOT of unexplored teams that beat her IMO.

Justin Wong
@jchensor @noelbhungry I don't think so. I think she beats at least 70% of the teams free

Christopher Gonzalez Christopher Gonzalez ‏@NYChrisG
@JWonggg @jchensor @NoelBHungry nope justin. It's not morrigan ur talking about. It's me. Morrigan is easily taken care of.

Christopher Gonzalez ‏@NYChrisG

No offense to anyone, but don't bring that morrigan sob story bs to me. Step up or stfu.

 

[enzo_gt]

Why should anyone care what James Chen has to say about Marvel? He hasn't actively followed it for months, and has always has had lackluster insight beyond what's obvious. "There's a lot that's unexplored!" is a stock answer replacement for "something might beat it, maybe. i dunno."

 

[number47]

as someone said before. doom isnt as broken. hes vulernable for a good period of time. you know its coming for a lock down situation. you can grab, or ag the character to take the missiles. or cinematic hyper to avoid it.

as for lariat, hes in then hes out. i personally like to call a beam assist just to catch it. but the timing gets hard depending on the player.

 

[GatorBait]

MahvelGaf:

I have started getting back into this game, and I'd like to start messing around with Dr. Strange...However, I'd like to craft a team with him on it that also has Frank West on it.

Any ideas?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Maybe it's because I'm a Magneto player, but I think Zero is horribly, horribly overrated.

Zero/X-23/Dante is still the best team in the game, though.


Also, my internet has improved a bit, anyone want to play later today? I'll be using Phoenix/X-23/Magneto and Strider/X-23/Magneto. I've reached some epiphanies for Magneto/Dante but I don't think I'll ever use that pair any more. At least not on an X-23 team.

MahvelGaf:

I have started getting back into this game, and I'd like to start messing around with Dr. Strange...However, I'd like to craft a team with him on it that also has Frank West on it.

Any ideas?

Dante/Frank West/Strange is going to be your best bet, probably. Lots of ways to both set up Frank West levels and Strange loops. But it's going to be relatively high execution and a lot to learn.

 

[Dahbomb]

I will say again.. yes quite some characters can beat Morrigan and even MorriDoom combo but how many of those can ALSO beat Vergil?

Hawkeye used to be one of those characters who can take on MorriDoom. Slap on Vergil on the team and Hawkeye becomes less relevant.

Viper/Dante or Vergil/Strider
Zero/Dante/Vergil
Morrigan/Doom/Vergil
Magneto/Dormammu/Doom

Magneto/Vergil/Doom - Every hit/throw of Magneto is a TOD thanks to Vergil at 2nd spot. Or you can put Doom at second spot for TAC combos and Vergil for derp anchor.

Zero/Morrigan/Doom - Zero builds meter with Morrigan assist and spams Sogenmu double projectiles plus Missiles all day. If he gets a hit it's a TOD because Zero is the best character in the game.

 

[GatorBait]

Dante/Frank West/Strange is going to be your best bet, probably. Lots of ways to both set up Frank West levels and Strange loops. But it's going to be relatively high execution and a lot to learn.

Thanks. I'm guessing the best team order is probably going to be X/Frank West/Strange?

Any other recommendations on characters who would fit well into the X slot? I'd like to learn Dante eventually, but I don't know if I have enough time and patience to learn him and another couple new characters after jumping right back into this game.

 

[Infinite]

Thanks. I'm guessing the best team order is probably going to be X/Frank West/Strange?

Any other recommendations on characters who would fit well into the X slot? I'd like to learn Dante eventually, but I don't know if I have enough time and patience to learn him and another couple new characters after jumping right back into this game.

Probably Dante bug if you're not willing to learn him then nova

 

[LakeEarth]

My prob is that Morrigan/Doom is so boring to watch. I'm watching a stream for hours, all hyped up. Then chris g shows up and I'm out. Sure it is hype when his opponent keeps it close, but it's usually yet another 3-0 destruction.

 

[Master Milk]

My prob is that Morrigan/Doom is so boring to watch. I'm watching a stream for hours, all hyped up. Then chris g shows up and I'm out. Sure it is hype when his opponent keeps it close, but it's usually yet another 3-0 destruction.

What you're describing isn't Morrigan/Doom being boring to watch, it's Chris G being obviously better than most of his opponents being boring to watch.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Thanks. I'm guessing the best team order is probably going to be X/Frank West/Strange?

Any other recommendations on characters who would fit well into the X slot? I'd like to learn Dante eventually, but I don't know if I have enough time and patience to learn him and another couple new characters after jumping right back into this game.

The nice thing about FoF loops with Strange is that they build a crap ton of meter and do a ton of damage late in a combo. So far Dante is the only character that can do a long combo then start Strange's loop without a DHC. The other way to do it is with a crumple, but that means standing state late in a combo which basically necessitates a character with crumple moves(Nova, She-Hulk, Iron Fist, Chun Li) with Spencer's Slant Shot assist.

If you're willing to only do loops with DHCs, then you can play most any character you want that has soft knockdown on their hypers, and use X/Strange/Frank West.

 

[Onemic]

Dat ChrisG twitter drama

 

[mr. puppy]

See, I disagree on that. The tools a craftsman uses are equally important as the skill of the craftsman himself. The fact that JRosa, a decidedly mediocre player was able to get top 3 over players such as moons, dieminion, predator, rayray, etc speaks volumes. No, he did not beat Noel Brown. But did he just get lucky? Or is Morrigan really that big of a problem?

I'm gonna agree with a good point here. JRosa is out at the break every week training and working on getting better, he deserved this spot even if he is using cheap stuff.

But wait....why are we bitching about using cheap stuff in Marvel?

Usually its b/c its attributed to a lack of creativity, or the ability to create something new and personal, and thats something else that a craftsman should be able to do. JRosa is not showing that trait.

 

[LakeEarth]

What you're describing isn't Morrigan/Doom being boring to watch, it's Chris G being obviously better than most of his opponents being boring to watch.

Very wrong. I am completely hyped up when Chris G picks his Morrigan-less B teams and dominates, or any other player. Seeing people completely fail to make any semblance of offense against a zoning team is just dull.

 

[enzo_gt]

Very wrong. I am completely hyped up when Chris G picks his Morrigan-less B teams and dominates.

When Chris G actually faces a challenge though, his MorriDoom play changes though and is MUCH more fun and fascinating to watch.

 

[Dahbomb]

Not gonna take any credit away from JRosa's performance but there were times he got lucky against Moonz. Should've been Moonz in top 3 but whatever.

I can't stress enough how well Noel played. He choked against ChrisG and dropped a few combos but he really outplayed his opponents. He consistently beat all the other Zero, SOS teams and Doom teams... teams that on paper he loses to. He was always doing the right thing with the limited tools at his disposal.

Noel should just bite the bullet and pick up Vergil.

 

[LakeEarth]

When Chris G actually faces a challenge though, his MorriDoom play changes though and is MUCH more fun and fascinating to watch.

Yes, when he actually has a challenge, it is better.

I am in no way knocking Chris G in this, or saying he shouldn't use Morrigan/Doom. I'm just saying it usually sucks as a spectator.

 

[Dahbomb]

The only two players who have a chance at breaking Chris's win steak are FChamp and Yipes. Not only are they better versed in beating Morrigan and Hidden Missiles but they are better Vergil killers as well. PRRog is next if he gets momentum. Everyone else is either too ill equipped (Justin, Noel) or just simply don't have the skills to beat him.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

The assist is worse. I've played matches where the opponent waits until i approach him and then he calls the lariat assist. The fuck is that shit?

Wow, really? Now that sounds broken.

 

[Infinite]

Wow, really? Now that sounds broken.

LMAO

 

[mr. puppy]

i wish somebody good would pickup Firebrand/Rocket Raccoon/Jam Session....if you open up training mode and just set the computer to spamming morridoom, you really find a lot of way to negotiate through the bullshit with firebrand flight/wall cling and RR's tunneling around. Jam Session can also take care of a good amount of the projectiles too.

 

[Dahbomb]

Computer spamming Morrigan fireballs in a set pattern does not compare with ChrisG adjusting fireballs and pressuring you depending upon the situation.

Although I don't doubt the strength of that team.