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[Dahbomb]

Nah, the Akuma changes are a bit weak and X23 needs that health buff. If not she should AT LEAST get 900K or knock Jill down a bit.

Also for Strange there has to be a nerf on FotF. And add the buffs that Frantic suggested.

Strider is good though, he didn't really need much changes to begin with.

 

[Professor Beef]

We should save Joe changes for last that way the residual salt that I have caused for GB and Q will go down.

=D

 

[Dahbomb]

We should save Joe changes for last that way the residual salt that I have caused for GB and Q will go down.

=D

Next batch of characters IS the last one.

 

[Karsticles]

Nah, the Akuma changes are a bit weak and X23 needs that health buff. If not she should AT LEAST get 900K or knock Jill down a bit.

Also for Strange there has to be a nerf on FotF. And add the buffs that Frantic suggested.

Strider is good though, he didn't really need much changes to begin with.

Akuma is already a fantastic character. He can now fire multiple fireballs on the screen at once, got a 100K health buff, and can double beam in the air. He really don't need anything more, he's a fantastic character. Oh right, and we're changing his Level 3 damage to be monstrous.

I'll give X-23 900K.

I nerfed Strange's FotF and incorporated Frantic's suggestions.

Also, I'll go on the record saying that I think Dr. Strange is a very good character, but no one outside of SagaFX has figured out how to use him yet.

 

[Dahbomb]

What about his teleport? How does it compare to other teleports? I feel like that could maybe use some work.

WAIT A FUCKING MINUTE!! We forgot to buff the most important thing on Strange.. his counter!!!

 

[Professor Beef]

Next batch of characters IS the last one.

....BAN Q AND GB FROM DISCUSSION

EDIT: Give Akuma back his white gi as an alt, and get rid of one of his shittier outfits.

 

[Karsticles]

What about his teleport? How does it compare to other teleports? I feel like that could maybe use some work.

It's one of the fastest teleports in the game. 11 startup frames. Most are 13-14; Dormammu is 17 (slowest AFAIK). The only faster one is Phoenix at 10 frames. Dr. Strange's real problem has always been that he can't get away once someone gets in on him, and we gave him tools for that. Dagger of Denak no longer makes him prone until landing, and he has a better ground dash.

What about his teleport? How does it compare to other teleports? I feel like that could maybe use some work.

WAIT A FUCKING MINUTE!! We forgot to buff the most important thing on Strange.. his counter!!!

I don't know how we can do this, though. I would love to buff it.

 

[Dahbomb]

That Illusion Counter needs work I feel. The fact that people can auto correct their normals really fucks him up.

Only way I know how it can be improved is that a successful counter causes an instant Impact Palm to be used after the teleport.

 

[Professor Beef]

Can we increase the damage on Seven Rings of Ganondorf?

 

[Karsticles]

That Illusion Counter needs work I feel. The fact that people can auto correct their normals really fucks him up.

Only way I know how it can be improved is that a successful counter causes an instant Impact Palm to be used after the teleport.

It wouldn't come out fast enough to hit most characters before they got another normal out. Also, there's the problem with assists. I've played a good amount of Dr. Strange, and when I faced a Hulk/Sentinel I thought "a ha, easy Illusions!" No. Every time I landed Illusion, it just teleported me into Sentinel drones. Making Illusion use IP wouldn't fix this.

 

[Karsticles]

Can we increase the damage on Seven Rings of Ganondorf?

I'd rather that, instead of increasing the damage, Dr. Strange recovers with enough time to teleport L and do jump loops. Would that be satisfactory?

Also, Gimlet should trigger Seven Rings...

 

[Dahbomb]

That's why I said it would be instant... as in 0 or 1 frame Impact Palm after the counter.

Dr. Strange recovers with enough time to teleport L and do jump loops. Would that be satisfactory?

I guess. That would be insanely good though but I guess not anymore as Strange wouldn't get TODs anymore with the scaling that high. Without FotF that works but if he had that in the current game he would be very powerful against zoners.

 

["God's Beard!"]

X-23

• Mirage Feint is considered airborne from the first to last frame
• Mirage Feint L has projectile invulnerability
• Talon attack L causes hard knockdown
• OTG slicer causes slightly more hitstun(so she can combo off of Talon Attack L)
• Your oppoent doesn't fall out of Talon Attack M as often

Those are the main changes I'd want for X-23. I think they're enough to make her good, watch out on her hitstun, she has deceptively high damage(much higher than wolverine), she's just bad at setting up those combos when she needs them. Talon Attack L and M buffs help that.

Mirage Feint airborne buff makes it so she can actually cancel into Talon attack during a fight. It's an awesome ability that's useless right now because she can't do it reliably from anything but point blank.

 

[biosnake20]

We should increase the damage on Strange's projectile counter hyper.

 

[Grecco]

Anyone wanna play on xbl?

 

[Dahbomb]

Mirage Feint L has projectile invulnerability

Oh boy...........

Mirage Feint is considered airborne from the first to last frame

This is legitimate though.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Akuma
Hyakkishu L x Hyakki Gojin (assist) now has 36 frames of startup.
Messatsu-Gohado Ungyo (air) can now be X-Factor canceled into Messatsu-Gohado Ungyo or Agyo.
Health increased to 850,000

Amaterasu
Bloom’s frame data is now the same as Dark Harmonizer.
Minimum damage scaling on normals increased to 15%.
Minimum damage scaling on hypers increased to 40%.
Devout Beads Whip and Rosary Chain Combo Ichi, Ni, San, and Shi are now special cancelable.
Rosary Chain Combo Ichi, Ni, San, and Shi all pull the opponent in closer on block or hit.
Amaterasu is now able to block 5 frames after the player lets go of her air dash input; air dash ceases immediately when inputs are let go of
New Assist: Power Slash H over Solar Flare

Arthur
When Gold Armor is on, the input for Gold Armor refreshes the duration; Gold Armor is now a soft knockdown on break.
s.M now starts up in 6 frames and has 8 active frames.
Cross Sword is now special-cancelable; air OK.
Walk speed increased; general speed increased further when without armor.
Arthur now recovers from air and ground throws faster; easier to convert into a combo.
Startup on normals decreased by 2 frames across the board
Fire Bottle (Gold Armor) now has a wider hitbox and more consistently OTGs characters; assist version startup changed to 34.
New Assist: Crossbow over Slash

Captain America
c.L is now +1 on block.
j.u+H vertical hitbox increased.
Final Justice invincible from frames 0-36; travels faster; allows for post-hyper combo follow-up through Shield Slash L OTG.
Shield Slashgrounded version causes more pushback on block on the first hit, and pulls the opponent in more on the second.
Shield Slash L vertical hitbox reduced; now passes under some beams and projectiles.
It is now easier for Captain America to combo off of his throws

Chris
Flamethrower vertical hitbox increased; upper body invincibility on assist version.
Flamethrower damage reduced to 120,000 maximum.
s.S now cancels Chris’ Grenade Launcher and Satellite Laser hypers.
Prone Position startup reduced to 5 frames; now hyper cancelable.
Combination Punch follow-up inputs made more lenient.
Stun Rod now hits overhead; startup increased to 24 frames.
Gun Fire L no longer whiffs up close
New Assist: Flamethrower over punches

Chun-li
Kikosho now hits OTG, used in all TACs
All Kikoken projectiles now travel full screen; dash cancelable; only one may be on the screen at a time.
Shichisei Ranka now air OK.
EX Spinning Bird Kick now invincible from frames 1-20; now -3 on block; causes a soft knockdown.
Spinning Bird Kick (all versions) now negates pushblock; now -8/-5/-3 on block.
c.L now hits low
New Assist: EX Spinning Bird Kick over uppercut

C. Viper
Minimum damage scaling on specials reduced to 20%.
Focus Attack Level 3 now causes a significantly less hitstun on airborne opponents with a strike attribute, preventing follow-ups. Grounded hits are unchanged
New Assist: Optic Laser over Knuckle

Dante
c.L startup reduced to 6 frames and can be chained into from s.L.
Fireworks regains piercing ability.
Hitstun values on all normals returned to Vanilla status; pushback on block remains the same as Ultimate.
c.M pushback on hit returned to Vanilla levels; active frames increased to 3.
Can no longer block during Bold Move's initial frames.
Helm Breaker’s hitbox near the hilt during descent reduced so that it no longer hits characters behind Dante.

Deadpool
4th Wall Crisis is now 5+0 on startup; 1 bar; damage reduced to 220,000; throw scaling on follow-up.
Ninja Gift (all versions) no longer leaves Deadpool prone until landing.
Teleport Malfunction now causes a soft knockdown.
Quick Work into Chimichanga is now easier to perform.
Katana-rama! hitstun significantly increased; now -3 on block.
j.L changed to +10/9 on hit/block
New Assist: Trigger Happy L over H

Doctor Doom
s.M and s.H now accelerate hitstun deterioration.
Hidden Missiles (assist): missiles which have not yet gained their tracking property fail to do so.
Plasma Beam no longer appears behind the point character.
Molecular Shield inputs can now be held to keep the shield active for more frames before releasing the rock; 30 frames max; startup decreased by 2 frames across the board; L version now -3 on block; M version now -1 on block; H version now +1 on block.
Minimum damage scaling on normals reduced to 15%.
j.L hitbox improved so that it can hit small crouching characters while tri-dashing

Dormammu
0D3C now OTGs
air throws no longer occasionally cause opponents to bounce off of a wall.
0D1C and 0D2C now hit OTG.
c.L, s.H always hits
Damage on normals reduced by 10% across the board.
0D0C startup is 10 frames
Flame Carpet no longer hits low
New Assists: Purification (Tracking), Dark Matter, Dark Spell (L)

Dr. Strange
Mystic Sword L bottom hitbox increased; destroys low durability projectiles.
Spell of Vishanti hitstun increased; it is now always safe on hit.
c.L now hits low
Seven Rings of Raggador now recovers with enough time for Dr. Strange to use Teleport L and follow up with jump loops on hit; now triggers from Gimlet.
Illusion now teleports Dr. Strange to the extreme opposite side of the one he is on when successful; active frames reduced to 14; recovery increased to 10


Felicia
Health increased to 900,000.
Delta Kick H assist pushes opponents back significantly on block; point Delta Kick now hits multiple characters.
Cat & Mouse is now special cancelable
Neko Punch now causes a crumple state.
Rolling Uppercut is now jump cancelable off of the opponent on block or hit.
Cat Spike M vertical hitbox increased downward; now hits crouching characters more consistently.
Toy Touch hitstun returned to Vanilla status.
Sand Splash projectile hit points increased to 5; blockstun increased; assist version startup reduced to 35 frames
New Assist: Rolling Buckler L + Rolling Slide

Firebrand
Luminous Body (air) no longer automatically puts Firebrand in Flight mode
Chaos Tide is now a level 2; all inputs now cause the helper to perform his H attack.
Dark Fire now causes a soft knockdown.
qcb.S (air) now causes Firebrand to rise into the air further like Hell’s Elevator L
j.L can now link into Bon Voyage without Luminous Body.
Devil’s Claw startup reduced to 10 frames.
Demon Charge (all versions) now air OK.
Hell Spitfire L and M recovery reduced to 20 frames
New Assists: Hell Spitfire L, Hell Spitfire H, Demon Charge M

Frank West
Snapshot now -3 on hit, -15 on block.
Pick Me Up’s frame data is now the same as Dark Harmonizer.
Tools of Survival hitstun increased to ensure he can link 3 after a TAC
Bottoms Up's vomiting effect will be negated if Frank West hits an opponent
New Assist: Hammer Throw H over Tools

Ghost Rider
Spirit of Vengeance now has hyper armor on frame 0; H follow-up recovers faster, allowing for a full combo.
Chain-based normals now deal 15% chip damage.
Heartless Spire jump-cancelable; assist version startup is 34 frames, upper body invincible.
Chain of Rebuttal vertical hitbox extended downward; now air OK.
Hellfire (all versions) are now +10 on block; startup reduced to 10 frames for all versions.
Chain of Punishment and Hell’s Embrace hitboxes widened.
c.M startup reduced to 9 frames
Hellfire Maelstrom invincible from frames 1-19
New Assists: Judgment Strike over Hellfire

Haggar
f.H and j.d+H do 15% chip damage; both now negate low and medium priority projectiles.
Rapid Fire Fist now combos when fully mashed.
c.H recovery is now a standard tech roll
Giant Haggar Press recovery reduced to 0; causes a hard knockdown

Hawkeye
Trick Shot (Violet Fizz) assist startup time reduced to 37 frames.
f.M special cancelable
c.M now always connects after c.L.
Ragtime Shot (Jack Rose) can now be influenced in its trajectory by holding forward or back after firing it; c.H arrows detonate the bomb early.
j.S is now hyper cancelable.
Hawkeye may now block during the active frames of Trick Maneuver.
s.H now fires at the same height every time

Hsien-ko
Air dash speed increased three-fold; aerial momentum retained after attack-canceling.
Senpu Bu now dash, Henkyo Ki, and j.S-cancelable.; startup reduced by 10 frames (all versions).
Item throw durability increased to 3; Time Bomb remapped to qcf.S; stun items now regularly appears once every 4 tosses.
Henkyo Ki now +5 on block at close range; active frames increased by 50% (all levels).
Canceled ground dash now always behaves the same as her plink dash.
Ground attacks dash cancelable.
Ground dash invincible on frames 10 – 25; dash takes 30 total frames to complete; distance unchanged.
Houten Geki and her air throw now lead to full combos via c.H follow-up.
c.H now OTGs and is jump-cancelable
Chireitou startup reduced to 20+3, now carries two characters
New Assist: Anki Hou S

Hulk
Ground dash now attack and crouch cancelable.
Minimum damage scaling on normal and special attacks reduced to 20%.
f.M gains hyper armor from frames 16-51 when charged.
Gamma Tornado (all versions) hitbox significantly increased; throws the opponent less far away, allowing for a Gamma Wave L + assist extension as with air throws.
Gamma Quake startup changed to 6+9; recovery changed to 0; Hulk is now free to move after pounding the ground

Iron Fist
Crescent Heel no longer ground bounces a standing opponent; assist startup time reduced to 37 frames.
Volanic Roar causes a soft knockdown on all but the last hit.
Iron Fist now has enough time to OTG opponents following Dragon’s Prey.
Wall of K’un-Lun and Rising Fang can be performed without the Rekka series; Rising Fang air OK.
c.L now hits low.
s.S hitbox increased to allow conversions against aerial opponents near the ground.
Untechable time after an air and ground throw increased.
Chi L, M, and H recovery reduced to 10; armor changed to frames 1-11; cancelable into Rekkas.
Twin Snakes is now jump-cancelable
New Assist: Wall of K’un-Lun over touch

Iron Man
Air dash down/forward and down back startup returned to Vanilla levels; current acceleration and momentum retained.
s.S horizontal and vertical hitbox significantly improved.
c.H missile travels straight forward now.
Smart Bomb now differs in trajectory by input: L version closer to Iron Man, H version furthest away; hitbox significantly increased; can now be charged: after 15 additional frames of charging, gains a larger hitbox and descends slower; assist version has 35 frames of startup.
Proton Cannon changed to +2 on hit, -5 on block; causes soft knockdown on all but the last hit.
s.H and j.M hit boxes extended to match the hit box of c.M.
Iron Avenger vertical hitbox increased.
Minimum damage scaling on specials reduced to 20%

Jill
Arrow Kick travels farther; air OK; ground version can now be canceled into Feral Crouch on hit.
Machine Gun Spray damage increased to 20,000 per bullet (22 bullets fire).
Mad Beast is now a level 1; Mad Beast no longer allows meter to be built; startup changed to 4+1.
Position Change is now +6 on hit.
Fallen Prey now forced a neutral tech.
Health increased to 950,000

Magneto
EM Disruptor L assist no longer appears behind the point character.
Forcefield now reflects projectiles and negates beams.
Hyper Grav (all versions) damage reduced to 65,000
s.S now -6 on block
New Assist: Reverse Polarity over Force Field

M.O.D.O.K.
M.O.D.O.K. automatically powers his assists up through levels of understanding when able to.
Big Barrier now negates high priority projectiles.
Hyper Psionic Blaster does more damage at lower levels of understanding
c.L hitbox now hits crouching characters
Using specials in the air no longer reduces the number of hits Hyper Battering Ram will be capable of.
Hyper Psionic Blaster’s beam durability is now consistent across all levels of understanding.
Killer Illumination startup changed to 18+0

Morrigan
Shadow Servant THC chosen for all assist types.
Finishing Shower hitstun increased.
Soul Fist and Soul Drain damage reduced to 70,000.
Aerial Soul Fist L and M and Soul Drain now hit OTG.
Air throws and Vector Drain (all) untechable knockdown increased by 30 frames
Assists: Shadow Blade H, Dark Harmonizer, Soul Drain

Nemesis
Fatal Mutation now has full invincibility; places opponent in a crumple state; startup time reduced to 10 frames.
Biohazard Rush now has full hyper armor; startup reduced to 8+1; vertical hitbox increased; recovers sooner to allow for post-hyper combos.
c.H super armor changed to frames 8-27.
s.H super armor changed to frames 7-24.
Minimum damage scaling for hypers changed to 60%.
qcf.S angle lowered 15 degrees
Clothesline Rocket L: 26 frame start up, +2 on block(no rocket, soft knockdown); previous L and M versions moved to M and H, respectively.
c.L now chains to s.L.
Launcher Slam M now has armor from frames 8-29; carries over to the assist version

Nova
Air throw range reduced considerably.
Timing for comboing off of throws made more strict.
Human Rocket blockstun reduced (hitstun unchanged).
Red health boosts only occur when S is inputted along with the normal command input; red health lost capped at 400,000.
c.L is now +1 on block.
Energy Javelin (assist) causes a soft knockdown
New Assists: Energy Javelin over Rush L

Phoenix
Dark Phoenix feathers now travel 15% farther.
New Hyper: Overload; Phoenix loses all health immediately; requires 5 bars, rdp.AA.
f.M reduced to 19 frames.
Multiple Dark Phoenix characters are now distinguishable on-screen
Assists: TK Overdrive H, TK Shot H, TK Trap L

Phoenix Wright
Evidence now works as follows: meat is only acquired when Wright has red health to recover, bad evidence guarantees that the next evidence found will be good, and bad evidence rate has been reduced in general.
”M-Maya?!” L appears closer to Wright than before, startup is reduced to 15 frames, and the shield now benefits from damage scaling.
c.H (Turnabout) now hits low.
Stance Change reduced to 10 frames (from 20).
”M-Maya?!” M and H startup reduced to 20 frames.
Present Evidence and Paperwork air OK.
Slip-Up startup reduced to 19 frames
New Assists: Questioning/Objection over Paperwork

Rocket Raccoon
Mad Hopper now lasts 1200 frames.
Oil Bomb now set on fire by any projectile.
j.S hitstun increased significantly.
Rocket Skate now cancelable into j.S.
Spitfire projectile durability changed to 4 per shot.
Spitfire (air) can be canceled into Rocket Skates.
Grab Bag damage scaling decreased.
All traps duration increased to 300 frames
New Assists: Oil Bomb over Claymore

Ryu
Hado Kakusei no longer causes Ryu’s health to drain; startup reduced to 0+4; duration increased to 750 frames.
Baku Hadoken startup reduced to 30 frames; recovery reduced to 20 frames; now aimable like Shinku Hadoken; causes OTG ground bounce when aimed downward; 10 projectile durability.
Ren Hadoken negates pushblock; -5 on block; now fires 4 fireballs max.
Shin Tatsumaki Senpukyaku now causes spinning knockdown; comboable.
Hado Kakusei Hadoken has 10 durability points.
Hado Kakusei Tatsumaki Senpukyaku now ignores projectiles.
Untechable time after air throws increased by 30 frames
New Assists: Hado SRK over SRK

Sentinel
Flight Startup reduced to 8 frames; Flight time increased to 180; Flight movement increased; Sentinel now turns faster when passing by opponents during Flight; Flight ow limited by the number of specials used in the air total (3 per jump; fly, unfly, refly).
Health increased to 1,100,000.
Hard Drive given a small vacuum effect on characters it hits; characters no longer drop out.
Sentinel Force H startup reduced to 30 frames; drones arrive if Sentinel is hit on frame 1
j.H reduced to 14 frame startup.
Damage on Plasma Storm and all non-beam normals reduced by 10%

She-Hulk
Lights Out startup reduced to 25 frames; horizontal hitbox increased.
c.L chains into itself on block/hit.
Emerald Cannon hyper forces a wall bounce.
Emergency Landing (Catapult Cancel) no longer makes She-Hulk prone until landing.
Canceling Runner’s Start has 0 frames of recovery; assists may now be called during Runner’s Start.
c.H returned to Vanilla status.
Shooting Star now has 1 hit of armor; assist causes significant knockback on block.
Torpedo causes less knockback on hit; assist version startup reduced to 35 frames startup.
Somersault Kick has 1 hit of super armor beginning on frame 5
New Assist: Lights Out over somersault

Shuma-Gorath
Air dash movement distance increased by 100%; total frames unaltered.
Improved ground dash speed by 50%; total frames unaltered.
Mystic Smash hitbox increased considerably; startup reduced by 5 frames across the board.
j.S is now special cancelable, and characters knocked down by it during air series land next to Shuma-Gorath instead of far away.
Mystic Stare’s recovery reduced by 15 frames across the board; charge time reduced to 30 frames; assist now shares the point version’s functionality.
Mystic Ray recovery reduced by 10 frames across the board; charge time reduced to 30 frames; durability changed to 5x1 for L version, 10x1 for M version, 15x1 for H version; assist startup reduced to 47 frames.
Chaos Dimension now recovers with enough time for Shuma-Gorath to perform an OTG follow-up.
Minimum damage scaling on normals and specials reduced to 15%.
j.M hitbox increased significantly

Spencer
Up grapple now affected by damage decay.
Armor Piercer assist startup reduced to 35 frames, invincible until frame 36.
Bionic Lancer no longer connects on opponents near maximum jump height.
Bionic Bomber startup reduced to 25.
Smash Kick and Critical Smash no longer count towards Spencer’s wall bounce

Spider-man
Web Ball H (assist) is unaffected by hitstun deterioration.
Spider Bite (assist) hits overhead and caused a ground bounce.
Ultimate Web Throw hitbox changed to better match the animation; startup reduced to 15+3.
Maximum Spider now possible to OTG follow-up.
Standing and crouching normals now pull opponents in more

Storm
Lightning Sphere hitbox increased, recovery reduced significantly, chargeable for a larger hitbox/hitstun
Double Typhoon startup reduced from 63 frames to 42 frames.
Lightning Storm soft knockdown on all but the last hit.
Storm is now able to air dash twice after jumping, without Flight.
Fair/Foul Wind active frames reduced to 20, total opposing character movement unchanged.
Whirlwind startup time reduced by 5 (all versions); now beam-durability; L version is 5x1, M version is 7x1, and H version is 9x1; all versions now travel full screen.
c.L now chains into c.H
Typhoon assist now tracks the opponent

Strider
Legion travel time improved; each animal of Legion has 1 high durability point
Hyper Damage scaling changed from 30% to 50%.
Formation B(Shot) no longer has a time limit; vertical hitbox extended downward to hit smaller knocked down characters.
Minimum damage scaling on normals changed to 5%.
Minimum damage scaling on specials changed to 10%

Super-Skrull
Orbital Grudge now -1 on block.
Skrull Torch now has full startup invincibility.
Stone Smite gains 2 hits of super armor on frames 14-53; startup reduced to 47.
Stone Dunk gains 2 hits of super armor on frames 16-42.
Brutal Pile Bunker is now -2 on block.
Flame Kick gains 2 hits of super armor on frames 12-52.
df.H hitstun increased (blockstun unchanged)

Taskmaster
Aegis Counter now causes a spinning knockdown; can be followed up by wave dashing into a full combo.
Guard Master (all versions) recovery reduced to 10.
Sword Master (all versions) is now an overhead (Start up 21/23/25): follow-ups are no longer unblockable; the penultimate hit in the follow-up is launcher cancelable; all follow-ups now subject to normal damage scaling; follow-ups for L and H versions swapped

Thor
Mighty Smash M assist armored from frames 36-63.
Mighty Smash L super armor from frames 6-20.
s.H has super armor from frames 6-20.
s.L startup reduced to 6 frames.
Startup on all versions of Mighty Strike reduced to 15-25 (charged) frames, have super armor from frames 12-30 regardless of charging.
Mighty Thunder startup decreased to 10+4.
Mighty Speech (assist) generates 15 meter per frame, replaces Strike assist

Trish
Trick “Hopscotch” travel time and hitstun increased
Duet Pain now hits OTG.
Low Voltage recovery reduced to 30 across the board; hitboxes widened; durability increased to 4 on each bolt.
Sign Switch H now causes Sparda to home in on the opponent.
Round Trip durability increased to 8; no longer loses its hitbox until destroyed
Untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
Trick “Peekaboo” causes a set amount of hitstun (60 frames); decreases by 10 frames for every use in a combo

Tron Bonne
j.H returned to Vanilla status.
Servbot Takeout can be X-Factor canceled on whiff.
Gustaff Fire is now upper body invincible.
Servbot Launcher recovery reduced to 20; assist version fires all 3 Servbots one after another.
Beacon Bomb recovery reduced to 10 frames; if the Beacon Bomb hits an assist, a servbot is now launched and attached to the assist character.
Servbot Takeout sends servbots onto the screen regardless of whether the beacon hit.
Bandit Boulder now travels full screen; hitstun increased to allow solo combos off of throws.
Ground dash now attack and crouch cancelable.
Shakedown Mixer now leads to full combos
Assists: Gustaff Fire, Bonne Strike H (fully mashed), Servbot Launcher

Vergil
Spiral Swords is now a level 2; may shift to one other sword formation free of cost.
Dimension Slash may no longer cross up.
Helm Breaker can no longer be canceled into s.S.
Round Trip glitch removed.
Rising Sun now causes the same hitstun as its point version when used as a crossover counter.
Rapid Slash is now -20 on block

Viewtiful Joe
Red Hot Kick L and M hit OTG.
Viewtiful Uppercut M (assist) now allows for full combos on crossover counter.
Voomerang (all non-charged versions) no longer disappears when Viewtiful Joe is hit.
Groovy Uppercut M is now +10 on hit.
Voomerang (charged) changed disappear after the second hit; no longer lingers once its durability is gone
Voomerang L assist is Charged version

Wesker
Rhino Charge invincible frames 1-6
Phantom Dance may no longer cross up.
Samurai Edge (Low) prioritizes point characters.
Jaguar Kick can now be canceled into any special on block.
Tiger Uppercut follow ups are now +2 on block.
Wesker now receives his glasses buff from Phantom Dance only when it goes to completion
New Assist: H.Shot over Palm

Wolverine
Wavedashing with Wolverine is less likely to activate Berserker Charge.
Berserker Charge provides red health recovery.
Swiss Cheese changed to -3 on block
Assists: Berserker Barrage H (fully mashed), Swiss Cheese, df.M

X-23
Ankle Slice charged version startup time reduced to 30 frames and allows for a s.L link afterward; cannot be canceled into Weapon X Prime; non-charged version now OTGs with minimal hitstun (can connect Rage Trigger); assist version comes out in 35 frames.
Rage Trigger now causes a soft knockdown.
Weapon X Prime causes a hard knockdown.
Untechable time after air and ground throws increased.
M/H Talon cancelable into Talon L. If canceled through other Talons it causes a hard knockdown
Health changed to 900,000.
X-23 is considered airborne for all frames of her Mirage Feint moves.
Talon Attack M hitstun increased

Zero
Soft knockdown on Raikousen removed; minimum hitstun remains high; Lightning Loops still possible.
Minimum scaling on specials and normals reduced to 15%
Level 3 buster startup increased to 10, requires 180 charging frames, hits 9 times; projectile is now 9x1 durability.
Health reduced to 800,000

 

[Dahbomb]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73284761]The tiny hop nobody uses! It moves her like 3 feet![/QUOTE]
Dude she has a fast ground dash, small hit box and different angles of approaches. People have to actually respect her air Crescent Scythe Talon L now because it would lead into a combo. That's really enough and if it isn't.. that's what assists are for. Plus her Weapon X will allow her to combo off of it.

 

[Karsticles]

That's why I said it would be instant... as in 0 or 1 frame Impact Palm after the counter.

This would make for some 9-1 matchups. What is Hulk supposed to do about this?

I guess. That would be insanely good though but I guess not anymore as Strange wouldn't get TODs anymore with the scaling that high. Without FotF that works but if he had that in the current game he would be very powerful against zoners.

No zoner throws projectiles against Dr. Strange without a plan. I won't use anything but Dark Matter. Dr. Strange already destroys characters like Hawkeye due to his teleport.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73284206]X-23

• Mirage Feint is considered airborne from the first to last frame
• Mirage Feint L has projectile invulnerability
  [*]Talon attack L causes hard knockdown
  [*]OTG slicer causes slightly more hitstun(so she can combo off of Talon Attack L)
• Your oppoent doesn't fall out of Talon Attack M as often

Those are the main changes I'd want for X-23. I think they're enough to make her good, watch out on her hitstun, she has deceptively high damage(much higher than wolverine), she's just bad at setting up those combos when she needs them. Talon Attack L and M buffs help that.

Mirage Feint airborne buff makes it so she can actually cancel into Talon attack during a fight. It's an awesome ability that's useless right now because she can't do it reliably from anything but point blank.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure she can already Mirage Feint into Talon attacks. Didn't Dahbomb post a video of that earlier?

Agreed on the bolded points. I'm not feeling projectile invulnerability for her - she's already the fastest character in the game, and she gets combos off of Weapon X Prime now. I need help understanding the Talon Attack M change.

 

[shaowebb]

Still think that without improving Iron Fist's mixup game he will only improve so much though the proposed Iron Fist is leagues better. Still think you should have gone with my air dash & KoF roll in exchange for a damage nerf patch note idea. Its far more useful to his offense since it not only gets him better air mobility but also more mixup/crossup opportunity.

 

[Karsticles]

Anyone wanna play on xbl?

What about PSN?

 

[Dahbomb]

This would make for some 9-1 matchups. What is Hulk supposed to do about this?

Not activate the counter? If he does st.H and he knows Strange is going to use Illusion that should be a kara command throw for him.

I'm pretty sure she can already Mirage Feint into Talon attacks. Didn't Dahbomb post a video of that earlier?

She can but that's not what he is talking about.

 

[Karsticles]

Not activate the counter? If he does st.H and he knows Strange is going to use Illusion that should be a kara command throw for him.

Haha, have you looked at the frame data on Illusion?

And my point is that Hulk wouldn't be able to use Gamma Charge against Strange without getting smacked.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm pretty sure she can already Mirage Feint into Talon attacks. Didn't Dahbomb post a video of that earlier?

Agreed on the bolded points. I'm not feeling projectile invulnerability for her - she's already the fastest character in the game, and she gets combos off of Weapon X Prime now. I need help understanding the Talon Attack M change.

She can, but only during certain frames. So she can't cross up at most of the ranges Mirage Feint passes through people.

The reason she has trouble doing damage is because she has bad corner carry and all her damage comes from the corner. Talon Attack M is her corner carry move but people fall out of it.

 

[Karsticles]

X-23:
*Ankle Slice now always OTGs; charged version start up time reduced to 30 frames and recovers fast enough to allow for a solo relaunch; no longer staggers; assist version comes out in 35 frames.
*Rage Trigger now causes a soft knockdown.
*Weapon X Prime causes a hard knockdown.
*Slight hitstun increase on aerial normals.
*Untechable time after air and ground throws increased.
*Talon Attack L (air) now causes a hard knockdown against aerial opponents.
*Health changed to 900,000.
*X-23 is considered airborne for all frames of her Mirage Feint moves.
*Talon Attack M hitstun increased.

Assists: Crescent Scythe H, Ankle Slice, Neck Slice (Charged)

 

[Grecco]

What about PSN?

i need to hook up my ps3 to my tv but that would take me just 5 min

 

[Dahbomb]

Haha, have you looked at the frame data on Illusion?

I did? It's 21 active frame meaning Hulk has enough time to react to it and kara cancel into a command throw.

I guess you could change it to that Strange only Impact Palms the location where the opponent was when he initiated the counter. That was an Impact Palm would just whiff against Gamma Charge.

 

[Karsticles]

i need to hook up my ps3 to my tv but that would take me just 5 min

See you in 5. PSN is Karsticles - toss me an invite.

Haha, have you looked at the frame data on Illusion?
I did? It's 21 active frame meaning Hulk has enough time to react to it and kara cancel into a command throw.

I guess you could change it to that Strange only Impact Palms the location where the opponent was when he initiated the counter. That was an Impact Palm would just whiff against Gamma Charge.

The startup is 4 frames. Hulk can't react to that.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm glad you specified air normals, though I don't think it'll help her too much. If you buff her standing normals though she'll get weird H xx Mirage Feint H xx Talon Attack loops.

Wait. Talon Attack L always knocks down now.


FUUUUCK We can't do that! That's like half her damage gone! We should make it her jS or something instead.

 

[Dahbomb]

OH!!!!

Yeah that's way too good then. He can activate right as st.H is about to hit.

What if it teleport Strange above them? Like where Dante's teleport appears.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Give Grace of Hoggoth a hitbox that doesn't do damage or go away on hit or block.

 

[Karsticles]

OH!!!!

Yeah that's way too good then. He can activate right as st.H is about to hit.

What if it teleport Strange above them? Like where Dante's teleport appears.

Lighter characters will just cross under him for free.

Maybe we should just make it teleport Dr. Strange to the other side of the screen?

Dr. Strange:
*Eye of Agamotto and Daggers of Denak no longer make him prone until landing.
*Mystic Sword L bottom hitbox increased; destroys low durability projectiles.
*Spell of Vishanti hitstun increased; it is now always safe on hit.
*c.L now hits low.
*Eye of Agamotto projectile hit points changed to 10x5; lasts 300 frames; startup reduced by 5 frames; hitstun increased slightly.
*Dagger of Denak tracking improved slightly.
*Minimum hitstun on Flame of the Faltine reduced slightly (allows for a few FotF loops still in most combos).
*Increase dash distance and startup speed.
*Seven Rings of Raggador now recovers with enough time for Dr. Strange to use Teleport L and follow up with jump loops on hit; now triggers from Gimlet.
*Illusion now teleports Dr. Strange to the extreme opposite side of the one he is on when successful; active frames reduced to 14; recovery increased to 10.

Assists: Bolts of Balthakk, Eye of Agamotto, Dagger of Denak L

 

[shaowebb]

With the proposed changes on that front page what are some teams you guys would be looking into. I'd keep Iron Fist and Arthur together for the bro levels of dagger dashing, but as good as Taskmaster +rising fang is I'd probably check out Iron Fist and Ryu again for awhile. They had great DHC and crumple combos together. I'd also love to revisit some Chun Li team building.

 

[Karsticles]

With the proposed changes on that front page what are some teams you guys would be looking into. I'd keep Iron Fist and Arthur together for the bro levels of dagger dashing, but as good as Taskmaster +rising fang is I'd probably check out Iron Fist and Ryu again for awhile. They had great DHC and crumple combos together. I'd also love to revisit some Chun Li team building.

Ghost Rider (Heartless Spire)
Sentinel (c.H)
Dormammu (Purification)

All day.

 

[Dahbomb]

With the proposed changes on that front page what are some teams you guys would be looking into. I'd keep Iron Fist and Arthur together for the bro levels of dagger dashing, but as good as Taskmaster +rising fang is I'd probably check out Iron Fist and Ryu again for awhile. They had great DHC and crumple combos together. I'd also love to revisit some Chun Li team building.

Pretty sure if this patch comes out there will be a 200% increase in MSS teams. I mean have you SEEN the buffs on Storm and Sentinel?

Also God's Beard is right about Talon L, that affects her loops. We have to rethink this now.

 

[Tirael]

Still think you should have gone with my air dash & KoF roll in exchange for a damage nerf patch note idea.

This would allegedly be a patch just for frame data and mechanics, we don't want to suggest new moves because they'd have to reassemble the team to implement them. Which is extremely unlikely.

 

[Zissou]

I disagree with the vajra assist hitbox nerf. It's already something that's getting figured out (FChamp swatting Strider like a fly repeatedly with Magneto). Many (if not all) characters have ways to punish vajra assist.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

Yo guys I wanna see a post of shame for the last OT. Who's got access?

 

[Dahbomb]

I disagree with the vajra assist hitbox nerf. It's already something that's getting figured out (FChamp swatting Strider like a fly repeatedly with Magneto). Many (if not all) characters have ways to punish vajra assist.

Yeah I was against it too in the old OT.

 

[Azure J]

Figure out how much Raging Demon has to do to kill Thor in XF3.

Strider:
*Vajra (assist) hitbox reduced slightly; untechable knockdown time decreased slightly.
*Legion travel time improved; each animal of Legion has 1 high durability point; piercing.
*Hyper Damage scaling changed from 30% to 50%.
*Formation B(Shot) no longer has a time limit; vertical hitbox extended downward to hit smaller knocked down characters.
*df.H now cancelable into Formation B.
*Minimum damage scaling on normals changed to 5%.
*Minimum damage scaling on specials changed to 10%.

Just wanted to mention, Legion needs one set guaranteed pattern. Nothing like losing a set for doing the right thing but getting a totally randum set of animals:

I disagree with the vajra assist hitbox nerf. It's already something that's getting figured out (FChamp swatting Strider like a fly repeatedly with Magneto). Many (if not all) characters have ways to punish vajra assist.

It's funny too, before everyone started getting exceptionally good at punishing the assist, I'd have agreed to all manners of nerfs to it like Soft Knockdown, appearing in front of the character it attempted to swat down for a punish, etc. Now? Only thing I like is decreased untechable time on hit.

Tangent: We're cool with him still being 750K?

 

[Grecco]

See you in 5. PSN is Karsticles - toss me an invite.


The startup is 4 frames. Hulk can't react to that.

Inv sent

 

["God's Beard!"]

Wesker's the biggest con artist in the FGC.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yes we are cool with Strider being 750K.

We need to rethink the Talon L buff. That basically takes out her jump loop game. I had forgotten about it for a bit as I was thinking of just derp X23 combos.

 

[Zissou]

Tangent: We're cool with him still being 750K?

I'm cool with 750k if he gets all the small buffs that have been mentioned and vajra H's hitbox is left alone.

 

[Frantic]

Maybe Illusion can leave an Illusion version of himself behind that keeps the enemy facing it so auto-correct strings don't just immediately kill him. Or make it so any normal that hit him counts as a 'whiff' so they can't string into their next normal.

That, or have him teleport to the complete opposite side of the screen. I dunno.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yes we are cool with Strider being 750K.

We need to rethink the Talon L buff. That basically takes out her jump loop game. I had forgotten about it for a bit as I was thinking of just derp X23 combos.

Talon H hard knockdown :3

 

[shaowebb]

This would allegedly be a patch just for frame data and mechanics, we don't want to suggest new moves because they'd have to reassemble the team to implement them. Which is extremely unlikely.

Then I'd rather have the air dash. Unlike Viewtiful Joe who has a divekick, Chun Li who has an air dash, and others with double jumps Iron fist would STILL have poor horizontal air mobility for go behinds with a double jump because Rising Fang takes you full screen and has shit recovery that would only be even worse the higher in the air he got.

He NEEDS mixups and aerial mobility. May as well take care of both right there. If you feel it still needs a nerf for damage (which it would) then do it as compensation because he needs it and you know he'd still be low to mid with only high low pressure to rely on still. There are too many ways to stuff a double jump to call him fixed on offense.

 

[Dahbomb]

Maybe Illusion can leave an Illusion version of himself behind that keeps the enemy facing it so auto-correct strings don't just immediately kill him. Or make it so any normal that hit him counts as a 'whiff' so they can't string into their next normal.

That, or have him teleport to the complete opposite side of the screen. I dunno.

This sounds like something that the engine may not be capable of. This is potential for some serious glitches.

The only change I can think of X23 now is that Talon H causes a wall bounce. Talon L/M still retain their uses, one as a corner carry and the other for jump loops but this gives Talon H some utility.

 

["God's Beard!"]

This sounds like something that the engine may not be capable of. This is potential for some serious glitches.

The only change I can think of X23 now is that Talon H causes a wall bounce.

Lol you'd never combo after that shit

 

[Azure J]

I'm cool with 750k if he gets all the small buffs that have been mentioned and vajra H's hitbox is left alone.

I'm good with this too.

With the proposed changes on that front page what are some teams you guys would be looking into. I'd keep Iron Fist and Arthur together for the bro levels of dagger dashing, but as good as Taskmaster +rising fang is I'd probably check out Iron Fist and Ryu again for awhile. They had great DHC and crumple combos together. I'd also love to revisit some Chun Li team building.

Hsien-Ko (Senpu-Bu or Henkyo-Ki)/Dante (Jam Session)/Strider (Vajra) would easily be my favorite team in the game and Viper (Optic Laser)/Dante (Jam Session)/Strider (Vajra), but I'd just have to find a way to play with new Sentinel, Dormammu and Magneto.

Spoiler

Dorm should still get Flame Carpet assist. >