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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!

Dahbomb

Member
No I said the Storm multiple Typhoon version was interesting. There might have been some confusion there (or I was in an altered state of mind at that time).

Edit: Oh nevermind it says command throw "damage".... lol damn few days off of serious mode patch talk and I am already tripping.

The command throw damage change is kinda negligible, there is no need for it.

Edit #2: Yea take out the last two James Chen changes and remove dash speed increase
 
No I said the Storm multiple Typhoon version was interesting. There might have been some confusion there (or I was in an altered state of mind at that time).

Edit: Oh nevermind it says command throw "damage".... lol damn few days off of serious mode patch talk and I am already tripping.

The command throw damage change is kinda negligible, there is no need for it.
Felicia - Probably should go over the James Chen changes as well, there were some good ones in there that we might be able to incorporate in. Otherwise I am indifferent on Felicia.
This is you on the last page. :p Only 2 changes were communicated because you said the rest were dumb.

Anyway, I don't care about Chen's suggestions.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I meant specifically talking about the Cat and Mouse changes, not the overall Felicia changes. I don't even know what Cat/Mouse changes he recommended (need to re-read his post).

The other non Felicia character changes were dumb (minus a few like the Storm change).
 

Zissou

Member
So the new Doom j.S thinking is by removing the ground bounce, the untechable knockdown will be effectively shortened making follow-ups require a bit more reaction/skill?
 

Zissou

Member
Then I vote yes on Doom. Can you explain the thinking behind giving Chris upper body invincibility on the assist version of flamethrower? I share similar concerns as Dahbomb.
 
Then I vote yes on Doom. Can you explain the thinking behind giving Chris upper body invincibility on the assist version of flamethrower? I share similar concerns as Dahbomb.
In my mind, it makes for a good assist while being competitive with his other assists. If you just give Chris Flamethrower as an assist, I guarantee you that it will never get picked over Grenade H and Gun Fire M. I actually don't have it written that the input is held down, so it's more of a brief fire spittle a la Tron Bonne.

I don't see this as being significantly better than most AA assists. It has a little more utility in exchange for not being such a great crossover counter.
 
I'm just immediately wary of assists being given any invincibility.
I understand startup invincibility, but upper body invincibility? I'm talking like up to his shoulders, just so it's useful.

If you and Dahbomb vote N on it, then I suggest we change it to the point version of Flamethrower, but it's fully charged so he has a pinning assist.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Woah woah... we can't replace Grenade L with Grenade H. Grenade L is used on teams that don't need the Machine Gun fire. It's a good defensive assist. Grenade H is just too good as it is, imagine getting locked down in the corner with it while Magneto is doing high lows on you... people barely survive Chris' pressure when he has Grenade H as a move.

Fully charged Flamethrower works as an assist, in fact that's what I had in mind when the changes were listed.
 

Sigmaah

Member
Taskmasters aim master L assist comes out behind the point character like plasma beam, we might wanna fix that since we fixed it for Doom.
 

Zissou

Member
Lots of projectile assists come out behind the point character. It's the extreme distance behind the point character that makes Doom problematic. I don't know why Mags was messed with.
 
Lots of projectile assists come out behind the point character. It's the extreme distance behind the point character that makes Doom problematic. I don't know why Mags was messed with.
Magneto and Doom arrive at the same place for their beam assists, as far as I can tell.

Taskmasters aim master L assist comes out behind the point character like plasma beam, we might wanna fix that since we fixed it for Doom.
You are right, we should.

Woah woah... we can't replace Grenade L with Grenade H. Grenade L is used on teams that don't need the Machine Gun fire. It's a good defensive assist. Grenade H is just too good as it is, imagine getting locked down in the corner with it while Magneto is doing high lows on you... people barely survive Chris' pressure when he has Grenade H as a move.

Fully charged Flamethrower works as an assist, in fact that's what I had in mind when the changes were listed.
Maybe you should read the changes more carefully instead of complaining about us not moving fast enough.

Grenade L is shit as an assist. Grenade H would be solid yet fair, since it does not have immediate neutral presence. It will be more for keepaway teams and for setups. Someone with the guide can help me out, but Grenade L only lasts like 60 frames or something.

Grenade H pressure on point is only good because no one can tell when the blockstun ends from the flame animation. We fixed that.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Grenade L is shit as an assist. Grenade H would be solid yet fair, since it does not have immediate neutral presence. It will be more for keepaway teams and for setups. Someone with the guide can help me out, but Grenade L only lasts like 60 frames or something.

Would it retain the same properties as an assist? Would enemy projectiles cause it to immediately ignite or simply neutralize it?
 

Dahbomb

Member
First of all, the priority of this patch should be that if there are crap assists they should be improved if able not replaced altogether. If you think L Grenade is bad, then you should come up with a way to improve it. Less active frames? Improve the active frames then. Grenade L assist is an interesting type of assist, it should not be changed it should be improved.

H Grenade cuts off a big portion of the ground for a decent amount of time. When Chris is using it in the neutral he has to cover himself with an assist to set it up and even then... it's Chris who is a low mobility low mix up character. If Magneto is able to call this out as an assist most rushdown characters will never be able to get in on him. He only needs to be able to call out one (and for Magneto this is not a big problem at all) and then he can start off a chain of grenade assist calls to keep the ground locked. Anyone that blocks it has to eat a Magneto high low mix up. It's also going to be insane as an incoming set up for other characters. Grenade H is one of the main reasons Chris is a competitive character, it's a big portion of his neutral game and it's hard for even tri dashers to get around the mines.

I don't think it's fair at all, I think it gives a bigger edge to keep away/high mobile characters against ground characters. Some match ups that were tolerable before would become intolerable because of this assist.
 
Replacing assists is generally better than improving them because it is easier to implement. Why make a unique version of Grenade L when there is a perfectly good Grenade H waiting to go?

Grenade H isn't going to be sufficiently better than things like Plasma Beam. It will just be an interesting option. Plenty of rushdown characters are getting new buffs.

Would it retain the same properties as an assist? Would enemy projectiles cause it to immediately ignite or simply neutralize it?
Same properties.
 

Dahbomb

Member
And plenty of zoning characters are getting big buffs too.

I am not asking for a unique version of Grenade L, just improved version. Like more active frames so it stays on the screen longer. Replacing assists completely is a lazier option IMO. Its not like we haven't improved the frame data of a bunch of assists already.
 
And plenty of zoning characters are getting big buffs too.

I am not asking for a unique version of Grenade L, just improved version. Like more active frames so it stays on the screen longer. Replacing assists completely is a lazier option IMO. Its not like we haven't improved the frame data of a bunch of assists already.
An improved version is a unique version.

Laziness does not matter. What matters is what offers the most interesting gameplay options. We could even do Grenade L and H, and remove Flamethrower. That might be more interesting than what we have now.
 

Sigmaah

Member
No Internet until Thursday for me so I'm just straight labbing it for 2 days. Hyperbolic Time Chamber here I come!

Got some new team ideas, shit's refreshing as fuck. I'm starting to play Taskmaster now, I played him in vanilla but dropped from for ultimate but he's fun as fuck and his damage is great so he's back for me! His arrow assist is so good. Gonna be playing Zero/Task/Vergil and another nice team I thought of was Doom/Task/Sent. Doom on point with an assist like plasma and sent drones is too good lmao.

Yay lab!

just checking in, any actual word or further hinting that this patch is happening?

Besides the whole comic con shit, nope no further hints.
 

Ken

Member
Oh hey something I can be useful for

(Jump in), ground chain, S, jM, jS, (S+A) xx dp+M, dp+H, c.M, S, j.M, j.S, qcf+M xx qcf super

The last part has to be done fast, as in, inmediately one after the other, you can't wait for the trap to hit.

Was poking around SRK RR forums. Do you know what combos this poster is referring to?

4) There are 4 combos you need to know. The Day 1 BnB, the boulder loop (you don't need to be able to do all the loops, if you can do 3 reps that's good enough), xf3 midscreen, and xf3 corner w/ boulders.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discuss...alaxy-rocket-raccoon-team-building-thread/p11
 

Sigmaah

Member
zero/task? why you jockin ma style sigmaah. :p

Lmao, U Ain't Bout That Life Doe.

Zero with them arrows man... Tell me some task stuff cause my task is booty! Lol.

What is the best Doom/Dormammu team, I wonder...

Doom/Dorm/Sent?
Doom/Dorm/Vergil?

I feel if Doom is on point, you gotta have dem drones dawg. They just provide so much coverage for him, probably the same for Dorm too, only bad thing is sent is too vulnerable but call your assist correctly and bam you're good.
 
Sentinel is an interesting idea. What are Doom's best assists besides Cold Star, Drones, Bolts, and Vajra? Of those, only drones and bolts are solid for Dormammu.
 

FSLink

Banned
I prefer bolts over drones for Doom, and it's good with Dorm too of course. But either one is good. I've been playing around with Spencer/Doom (missiles)/Strange and it's pretty amazing.
 

Ghazi

Member
So you guys know how when in DT with Vergil, even when the bar runs out the actual appearance doesn't go away until your current move finishes its animation. I'm guessing not, but do all the other buffs stay with the appearance/whenever it goes away and not actually when the bar runs out?
 
Jay Snyder ‏@JayViscant 32m
45 minutes of training mode with Zero/Dante/Frank and I feel excited about Marvel again. Trying it out all tournament at OFC this Saturday.

He's motivated
by the Maverick Hunter, the more awesome Sparda brother, and the man that has covered wars.


What a game.
iMRIEPnGvUb9y.gif


Would anyone else's counter let them do this?
 
Does anyone care to explain how this works to me? I don't quite get it.

It's a reset. You do the basic BNB with Wesker, and since Joe's bomb hurts both players, you can use it to trigger Wesker's projectile counter to "trick" the game into a reset situation since it was never intended for people to use Wesker's counters in the middle of a combo.
 

onionfrog

Member
It's a reset. You do the basic BNB with Wesker, and since Joe's bomb hurts both players, you can use it to trigger Wesker's projectile counter to "trick" the game into a reset situation since it was never intended for people to use Wesker's counters in the middle of a combo.
Wesker is countering the hit box of Shocking Pink mid combo which activates the attack animation of the counter... continuing the combo unscaled.

Its a really cool gimmick.
Oh great, thanks guys. That makes sense.
I didn't understand what was causing the combo counter to reset, and I wasn't sure if it was escapeable.

I wonder if any other characters can set up something like this with their counter moves.
 
Man, watching DiosX Doom/Storm/Sent playing full screen is so hypnotizing. I really never seen Storm play like Doom (tri hopping) and using fingerlasers to cover the assist and lock down stuff.
 

Frantic

Member
My belated votes for the new characters.

Dorm - Y

Dr. Strange - N: Don't agree with the Seven Rings change - makes him too good against zoners. Additionally, the 'now triggers from Gimlet' needs some clarification. The problem with it not activating from Gimlet is because Gimlet's active frames do not extend into Seven Ring's active frames. The only way to make it activate would be to make Seven Rings activate during startup frames, which could be problematic. Also, not sure on EoA being 10x5. That's a lot of durability frames for something that can just sit there. 10x3 would be more reasonable, imo. Also unsure of the DoD not making him prone in the air just because fast tracking projectile + teleport could lead to bad things, especially with the other changes Strange is receiving.

Felicia - Have a lot to say for this one, so I'll go through each.

+Health increased to 900,000. Fine
+Delta Kick H assist pushes opponents back significantly on block; point Delta Kick now hits multiple characters. Fine
+Cat & Mouse is now special cancelable, distance increased slightly. Not sure why this move should be special cancelable. I know it's not a great move as is, but I don't think making it special cancelable is the way to go. Maybe speed it up so it's more on par with the likes of Frank's Roll and Cap's Cartwheel?
+Kitty Helper summon now runs slightly faster and jumps slightly farther. Fine.
+Dash speed increased slightly. Her dash is already pretty fast, why increase it? If anything, increase the distance it goes a little bit instead.
+Neko Punch now causes a crumple state. On one hand, I'm fine with this, on the other I'm not sure if Felicia should get a crumple. Admittedly, she wouldn't really land it outside of Slant Shot assist, but still.
+Rolling Uppercut is now jump cancelable off of the opponent on block or hit. This is kind of silly, just on an animation basis. While it's perfectly possible, I don't think it's really necessary seeing as how it'd just make her pressure much more dangerous and she already has good pressure with proper usage of Rolling Slide. If anything, I'd make it so that it recovers in the air, and increase the hitstun on it just a little bit so it'd be possible to combo off it.
+Cat Spike M vertical hitbox increased downward; now hits crouching characters more consistently. Sure. I'd also change Cat Spike H to hit some/all crouching characters as well - the move is an overhead, but you'll never actually land it on crouching opponents since it hits to sigh. Letting it hit crouching opponents would give her something to surprise people with if they get locked down.
+Toy Touch hitstun returned to Vanilla status. Sure.
+Sand Splash projectile hit points increased to 5; blockstun increased; assist version startup reduced to 35 frames; input changed to qcf.S (H version). Why change the input to qcf.S for one of them? Does a new version exist to replace the old motion? Just seems weird. Also, what's the reason for a blockstun increase?
+Wall jump and wall cling now available at superjump height; wall cling input changed to b,b. Sure.
+Increase command throw damage? I see no need to increase the damage on them.
+Multiple Cat & Mouse versions? I don't even know how that would work. What could be different about them?

Firebrand - N: I am fine with most of the changes, but have issue with:

"+Hell Spitfire H reduced by half in startup and recovery; soft knockdown, only one on the screen at a time; no longer leaves Firebrand prone until landing when performed in the air."

I didn't really pay attention to this one before, but there is a lot wrong with this one except for the last one. Reducing the startup by half would mean it's faster than Hell Spitfire L and M at 13 frames compared to their 16. The recovery would also be 10 frames. Considering the type of move it is, I can't support that fast of a startup and that quick of a recovery. I don't mind a reduction in both, but half is a little too much imo. 20 startup and 15 recovery would be more reasonable. Additionally, the change of 'only one on the screen at a time'; what does that mean? You can only use it once and can't use it again until the first one disappears? If so, it'd need a wording change since you can only have one on screen at a time. When you use it again, the first just disappears. Soft-knockdown is fine if you can only use it once and can't use it again until the fireball disappears, otherwise it'd be an infinite so that'd be a no-go.

Additionally: "+Chaos Tide is now a level 2; all inputs now cause the helper to perform his H attack."

Can't Firebrand build 2 bars with a loop using the H attack of the helper, and end up doing 300-400k with it? Making it a level 2 means he'd be doing near level 3 damage while being meter neutral. Not sure how I feel about that, and I can't seem to find the loop in question to confirm it atm.

Frank West - Y

Ghost Rider - N: Hellfire needs some adjustment to be +10 on block. Plus, it being +10 on block is a bit excessive and sometimes detrimental(due to really late pushblock causing stuff to whiff). +4/5 would be better.

Haggar - N: No on the pipe negation. Also, is the Giant Haggar Press really a '-'? If there's no recovery, it causes a hard knockdown, and it links into itself... aren't those all +'s?

Hawkeye - Y: Although I still want to know what '+Ice Breaker M now causes a ground bounce on airborne opponents.' means! If it's the rolling version, it should cause a wallbounce since a ground bounce would look weird as hell. :p

Hsien-Ko - N: Dahbomb is right about Henkyo Ki needing some histun adjustment to prevent possible infinites. Y on everything else, however.

Hulk - Y

Whew. Took a while, but there are my votes! Sorry for being wordy, but I wanted to get my point across... and somehow I feel like I didn't get my point across fully, anyways. >_>
 

Dahbomb

Member
Why should an assist reset damage? We want to remove long unnecessary combos and single player match stuff.
Its not reliable and its a one side only thing. Its a cool gimmick and makes the assist usable. If anything it should be adjusted so its usable on both sides!

There's still single player stuff in the game. Firebrand still has unblockable set ups. Trish still has Round Harvest unblockables. The Joe assist pales in comparison. If someone wants to use Joe on ANCHOR with Shocking Pick assist in the neutral just for big combos then let them.

Also Frantic the Felicia dash change isn't supposed to be there (same for the last 2 changes on that list), we decided to remove it because there were already enough changes on the characters.
 

Sigmaah

Member
Which shocking pink glitch we taking about? This Wesker one? or the other one? (I think there was another one lol)

If we're talking about the Wesker one, I say let it rock. It doesn't look easy to do and how often are you gonna go up against it? I mean, if you wanna just get rid of any sort of glitch then I guess we can get rid of it but if that's not our intentions, let it be!

I'm gonna be stuck in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber until Tuesday now... Fucking TW was supposed to come tomorrow but something messed up and now they'll be here Tuesday... I'M SO MAD WDF.
 

Dahbomb

Member
The Wesker one is fair. The Shocking Pink isn't causing the reset, the counter itself is. So that would need a change on Wesker.. but let that shit rock.

The othet glitch with Shocking Pink allows a bunch of characters to basically get TODs in the corner.. but it's a glitch that is only doable on one player side. Desk confirmed this and so it was deemed impractical for tournament play.
 
I have updated the changelog after reviewing votes that negate changes for the 10 new characters. Please take note of this and vote again.

Now we just need Zissou's votes on the 10 new characters. Also, do I have your votes on Chris? I didn't see them if you posted them, or Frantic's vote on Doom.

Its not reliable and its a one side only thing. Its a cool gimmick and makes the assist usable. If anything it should be adjusted so its usable on both sides!

There's still single player stuff in the game. Firebrand still has unblockable set ups. Trish still has Round Harvest unblockables. The Joe assist pales in comparison. If someone wants to use Joe on ANCHOR with Shocking Pick assist in the neutral just for big combos then let them.

Also Frantic the Felicia dash change isn't supposed to be there (same for the last 2 changes on that list), we decided to remove it because there were already enough changes on the characters.
We've removed all meterless unavoidable unblockable resets. Shocking Pink is in its own league. I'll wait and fight that fight when it's time, though.

My belated votes for the new characters.

Dorm - Y
Is everyone really cool with Dormammu, or do people just not want to argue with me? lol

Dr. Strange - N: Don't agree with the Seven Rings change - makes him too good against zoners. Additionally, the 'now triggers from Gimlet' needs some clarification. The problem with it not activating from Gimlet is because Gimlet's active frames do not extend into Seven Ring's active frames. The only way to make it activate would be to make Seven Rings activate during startup frames, which could be problematic. Also, not sure on EoA being 10x5. That's a lot of durability frames for something that can just sit there. 10x3 would be more reasonable, imo. Also unsure of the DoD not making him prone in the air just because fast tracking projectile + teleport could lead to bad things, especially with the other changes Strange is receiving.
That's 2 votes against the Seven Rings buff, so I have removed it.
We also have 3 people against Eye of Agamotto and Daggers of Denak no longer making him prone - removed.
I also back the Eye of Agamotto durability change to 10x3.

If anyone has ideas about how to word the Gimlet change, let me know. Otherwise I'll just leave it for Capcom to figure out.

Felicia - Have a lot to say for this one, so I'll go through each.

+Cat & Mouse is now special cancelable, distance increased slightly. Not sure why this move should be special cancelable. I know it's not a great move as is, but I don't think making it special cancelable is the way to go. Maybe speed it up so it's more on par with the likes of Frank's Roll and Cap's Cartwheel?
I think ShadyK had some smart things to say when he talked about buffing characters. Don't buff them into homogeneity, buff them based on what they are trying to be. If we make Cat & Mouse more like other mix-up rolls, then we're removing part of what Felicia is. Since she is a heavy up-close mix-up character, it makes more sense to give it this buff to add more to her mix-up options.

+Dash speed increased slightly. Her dash is already pretty fast, why increase it? If anything, increase the distance it goes a little bit instead.
This was voted out by Dahbomb and I.

+Neko Punch now causes a crumple state. On one hand, I'm fine with this, on the other I'm not sure if Felicia should get a crumple. Admittedly, she wouldn't really land it outside of Slant Shot assist, but still.
It just gives the move some use.

+Rolling Uppercut is now jump cancelable off of the opponent on block or hit. This is kind of silly, just on an animation basis. While it's perfectly possible, I don't think it's really necessary seeing as how it'd just make her pressure much more dangerous and she already has good pressure with proper usage of Rolling Slide. If anything, I'd make it so that it recovers in the air, and increase the hitstun on it just a little bit so it'd be possible to combo off it.
How is it silly on an animation basis? Chun-li can jump off of opponents with j.d+M. It would function like that.

If you make the move comboable, it will still never get used after Rolling Buckler, because the slide is superior for its low hit. Making it recover in the air is interesting, but I'd like to know what you think the frame data should be like.

+Cat Spike M vertical hitbox increased downward; now hits crouching characters more consistently. Sure. I'd also change Cat Spike H to hit some/all crouching characters as well - the move is an overhead, but you'll never actually land it on crouching opponents since it hits to sigh. Letting it hit crouching opponents would give her something to surprise people with if they get locked down.
Cat Spike H is actually used as an ambiguous crossup against small characters at close range. I don't think Felicia players would want it changed.

+Sand Splash projectile hit points increased to 5; blockstun increased; assist version startup reduced to 35 frames; input changed to qcf.S (H version). Why change the input to qcf.S for one of them? Does a new version exist to replace the old motion? Just seems weird. Also, what's the reason for a blockstun increase?
There seems to be a miscommunication here. We are removing the L and M versions of Sand Splash and remapping the move to qcf.S, which is the H version. This helps prevent accidental charge motion dash cancels, and her other versions are useless anyway.

+Increase command throw damage? I see no need to increase the damage on them.
+Multiple Cat & Mouse versions? I don't even know how that would work. What could be different about them?
These were James Chen suggestions that I included to be nice - removed.

Firebrand - N: I am fine with most of the changes, but have issue with:

"+Hell Spitfire H reduced by half in startup and recovery; soft knockdown, only one on the screen at a time; no longer leaves Firebrand prone until landing when performed in the air."

I didn't really pay attention to this one before, but there is a lot wrong with this one except for the last one. Reducing the startup by half would mean it's faster than Hell Spitfire L and M at 13 frames compared to their 16. The recovery would also be 10 frames. Considering the type of move it is, I can't support that fast of a startup and that quick of a recovery. I don't mind a reduction in both, but half is a little too much imo. 20 startup and 15 recovery would be more reasonable. Additionally, the change of 'only one on the screen at a time'; what does that mean? You can only use it once and can't use it again until the first one disappears? If so, it'd need a wording change since you can only have one on screen at a time. When you use it again, the first just disappears. Soft-knockdown is fine if you can only use it once and can't use it again until the fireball disappears, otherwise it'd be an infinite so that'd be a no-go.
The fire would disappear right as Firebrand begins the startup frames of a new Hell Spitfire H input. This would prevent infinites.

The move has to be significantly faster because Firebrand can't connect off of air throw resets in corners with it (LOL) - he needs to be able to dash backwards first. Alternatively, we should increase its rear hitbox a bit and just reduce the startup slightly.

Additionally: "+Chaos Tide is now a level 2; all inputs now cause the helper to perform his H attack."

Can't Firebrand build 2 bars with a loop using the H attack of the helper, and end up doing 300-400k with it? Making it a level 2 means he'd be doing near level 3 damage while being meter neutral. Not sure how I feel about that, and I can't seem to find the loop in question to confirm it atm.
The H attack loops are extremely unreliable and circumstantial. The damage is also not all that high compared to a normal Firebrand combo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz6qzlPDCRY

Frank West - Y

Ghost Rider - N: Hellfire needs some adjustment to be +10 on block. Plus, it being +10 on block is a bit excessive and sometimes detrimental(due to really late pushblock causing stuff to whiff). +4/5 would be better.
What are those adjustments?

Haggar - N: No on the pipe negation. Also, is the Giant Haggar Press really a '-'? If there's no recovery, it causes a hard knockdown, and it links into itself... aren't those all +'s?
The "-" is a typo. Pipe negation now has 2 detractors and has been removed.
Hawkeye - Y: Although I still want to know what '+Ice Breaker M now causes a ground bounce on airborne opponents.' means! If it's the rolling version, it should cause a wallbounce since a ground bounce would look weird as hell. :p
Which Tricks put Hawkeye into the air? It's those follow-ups that do it.

Hsien-Ko - N: Dahbomb is right about Henkyo Ki needing some histun adjustment to prevent possible infinites. Y on everything else, however.
More info is needed.

Whew. Took a while, but there are my votes! Sorry for being wordy, but I wanted to get my point across... and somehow I feel like I didn't get my point across fully, anyways. >_>
K.
 
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