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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!

D

Dahbomb

Member
So can we discuss the patch changes?

I think from the votes it seems like the controversy was mainly over the following stuff:

Magneto and his Magnetic Blasts
Phoenix and her transformation hyper
MODOK and his unblockable
Chris still needs finalizing
Dr Strange FOTF

This should not take that long guys. Just make the fix that Frantic asked for Chris' Flamethrower.

On Magneto's Mag Blasts the block advantage should be reduced from +22 to +12 at the BARE minimum (a 10 frame reduction in block stun). I also like the idea of making the durability 3/4/5.

I also still think that Jill's health at 950K is a bit too tanky for her. The character has a slide, an air OK Arrow Kick, Somersault Kick, a LVL1 invincible hyper she can get in, a utility hyper that makes her super fast and increases her mix up potential and a faster dive kick. I say 900K is more than enough for her.

Still 50/50 on MODOK's unblockable. If MODOK had great lows the unblockable would be a big no no from me but he sort of needs that I guess especially if we kept Viper's unblockable on the ground. I guess you could make it so that the puddle has less active frames on the ground so that the window to pull a soft unblockable is tighter.

Dr Strange FotF add in slight damage reduction to it.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Dahbomb said:
So can we discuss the patch changes?

I think from the votes it seems like the controversy was mainly over the following stuff:

Magneto and his Magnetic Blasts
Phoenix and her transformation hyper
MODOK and his unblockable
Chris still needs finalizing
Dr Strange FOTF

This should not take that long guys. Just make the fix that Frantic asked for Chris' Flamethrower.

On Magneto's Mag Blasts the block advantage should be reduced from +22 to +12 at the BARE minimum (a 10 frame reduction in block stun). I also like the idea of making the durability 3/4/5.

I also still think that Jill's health at 950K is a bit too tanky for her. The character has a slide, an air OK Arrow Kick, Somersault Kick, a LVL1 invincible hyper she can get in, a utility hyper that makes her super fast and increases her mix up potential and a faster dive kick. I say 900K is more than enough for her.

Still 50/50 on MODOK's unblockable. If MODOK had great lows the unblockable would be a big no no from me but he sort of needs that I guess especially if we kept Viper's unblockable on the ground. I guess you could make it so that the puddle has less active frames on the ground so that the window to pull a soft unblockable is tighter.

Dr Strange FotF add in slight damage reduction to it.
Click to expand...
I concede the Phoenix transformation hyper point.
No durability drop on Magnetic Blast, but I am okay with reducing the frame advantage somehow.
Why does fotf need damage reduction?
No solo unblockables. We should also fix RRs.
Jill is still not stronger than Wolverine. 950K is justifiable.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
RR doesn't have a real solo unblockable, no? Assisted- yeah, but if you do fwd.H into boulder trap you can pushblock or jump in the gap between the fwd.H and the boulder trap.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
It's really debatable whether Jill in this patch is stronger than Wolverine or not.

On FotF I only suggested it because you suggested it. I am fine with it as it is to be honest although that's a change that is hard to gauge without testing. As long as the annotations explains what needs to change.

RR losing unblockables would be a HUGE nerf to him. Characters like Dorm/MODOK/Viper can live without them but a big part of RR's game plan revolves around them. He's already not that great both in the current game and in the patch.
 
X

XxSlasherMcGirkxX

Member
RR to me always seemed he was designed to be strong as a support character and a weak fighter. This ideology is dumb but it would seem it would be hard to fix such a character.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
XxSlasherMcGirkxX said:
RR to me always seemed he was designed to be strong as a support character and a weak fighter. This ideology is dumb but it would seem it would be hard to fix such a character.
Click to expand...
Pretty much yeah. It was clear that some characters were more designed around a certain role on a team.

It's not a bad idealogy, other team games use this format too. The problem with this ideology comes when you end up with characters who are bad at both support and point while you also have characters who excel at both... which is what the current game suffers from. So either you nerf/buff characters to fit into their intended rolls or you just buff characters to the point where they are at least decent/good in both roles.

This is why with the tier list I have on this patch... someone like Spider Man actually goes DOWN in tier ranking. Most of the characters would have good assists, he is still stuck with bad assists and bad support capability meaning he is much more difficult to put into teams than your average character.
 
A

Azn_Boy

Neo Member
Mag blast should also be given 2-3 frames of recovery so you can at least tripguard him coming down.

It won't affect BnBs much, hell it might make doing FChamp's BnB more consistent since you actually delay your dash after Mag blast anyways.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Azn_Boy said:
Mag blast should also be given 2-3 frames of recovery so you can at least tripguard him coming down.

It won't affect BnBs much, hell it might make doing FChamp's BnB more consistent since you actually delay your dash after Mag blast anyways.
Click to expand...
I wanted this change to happen on his recovery but I was too afraid that it would mess up his combos so I never seriously suggested it. Even Champ said that the move should have more recovery but it would mean messing up his Mag Blast combos.

It's a slippery slope.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
If RR needs more buffs, then let us give them to him. There is no reason to remove some meterless unblockables but keep others. Really, it would be best to remove them all.
 
F

FSLink

Banned
Karsticles said:
If RR needs more buffs, then let us give them to him. There is no reason to remove some meterless unblockables but keep others. Really, it would be best to remove them all.
Click to expand...
I don't like the idea of all unblockables being removed, just mindless ones. RR's setups aren't broken or anything.

Anyway I'm on PSN if anybody wants to play, just send me an invite (amodestproposal)
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Karsticles said:
If RR needs more buffs, then let us give them to him. There is no reason to remove some meterless unblockables but keep others. Really, it would be best to remove them all.
Click to expand...
We haven't removed every meterless unblockable in the game. Viper still has her and Firebrand is still 50/50. Thing with something like Dorm's Flame Carpet and MODOK's Snot OTG is that those moves have other purposes than just being soft unblockables and are much easier to set up than RR's unblockables.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
FSLink said:
I don't like the idea of all unblockables being removed, just mindless ones. RR's setups aren't broken or anything.

Anyway I'm on PSN if anybody wants to play, just send me an invite (amodestproposal)
Click to expand...
RR setups are mindless.

Dahbomb said:
We haven't removed every meterless unblockable in the game. Viper still has her and Firebrand is still 50/50. Thing with something like Dorm's Flame Carpet and MODOK's Snot OTG is that those moves have other purposes than just being soft unblockables and are much easier to set up than RR's unblockables.
Click to expand...
There is a chance to escape those. They aren't guaranteed like RR.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
There's a chance to escape RR set ups too (well the Boulder one for sure can be escaped).

Probably the biggest distinction between someone like RR having an unblockable and Dorm/MODOK having an unblockable is the damage differential. In the new patch, RR would still need at least 2 set ups to kill a character maybe even more. The buffs to his combos/damage are not big, he would still be a low damage character in the patch. This is also the reasoning why FB has that hard unblockable.

Having these unblockables is really the only thing that makes RR a viable point character and even then an underwhelming one. RR is normally played as an anchor or secondary at best, not having access to assists that help him set up the unblockables.

If we are to draw a line that no character gets meterless unblockable then we have to go back and completely remove Viper and Firebrand unblockables too. IMO unblockables should be judged on a character by character basis.
 
T

Tirael

Member
0hBvFbC.jpg
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Dahbomb said:
There's a chance to escape RR set ups too (well the Boulder one for sure can be escaped).

Probably the biggest distinction between someone like RR having an unblockable and Dorm/MODOK having an unblockable is the damage differential. In the new patch, RR would still need at least 2 set ups to kill a character maybe even more. The buffs to his combos/damage are not big, he would still be a low damage character in the patch. This is also the reasoning why FB has that hard unblockable.

Having these unblockables is really the only thing that makes RR a viable point character and even then an underwhelming one. RR is normally played as an anchor or secondary at best, not having access to assists that help him set up the unblockables.

If we are to draw a line that no character gets meterless unblockable then we have to go back and completely remove Viper and Firebrand unblockables too. IMO unblockables should be judged on a character by character basis.
Click to expand...
Meterless and inescapable = no. RR's unblockables are not escapable when combined with a pinning assist.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Karsticles said:
Meterless and inescapable = no. RR's unblockables are not escapable when combined with a pinning assist.
Click to expand...
So just like Viper and Firebrand but instead they get a superior hard unlockable and in the case of Viper she gets big damage from her unblockable.

Either we wipe the slate clean of unblockables or we look at characters individually. Not everyone follows the same rules otherwise we would have all utility hypers not build meter and everyone would at least have a ground dash. Some characters will have unblockables that's just the way it is. The only problem I feel is characters who can set up solo unblockables or can perform a team death loop... RR can do neither. If you get pinned down by a locked down assist against RR you are getting opened up with or without unblockables, its not like people can react to his instant overheads anyway.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Dahbomb said:
So just like Viper and Firebrand but instead they get a superior hard unlockable and in the case of Viper she gets big damage from her unblockable.

Either we wipe the slate clean of unblockables or we look at characters individually. Not everyone follows the same rules otherwise we would have all utility hypers not build meter and everyone would at least have a ground dash. Some characters will have unblockables that's just the way it is. The only problem I feel is characters who can set up solo unblockables or can perform a team death loop... RR can do neither. If you get pinned down by a locked down assist against RR you are getting opened up with or without unblockables, its not people can react to his instant overheads anyway.
Click to expand...
No. Firebrand and C. Viper's resets are escapable through teching in the proper direction. That's what makes them different. We removed the only assist that lets Firebrand loop unblockables from the game. RR's are not escapable unless you're doing something like mashing Gamma Crush.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Oh you are talking about escaping via techs before the unblockable is even set up, I was talking about escaping the unblockable when its already set up via pinning assist.

In that case you just look at the unblockable itself and see what is causing it to cover all tech options and provide a reasonable tech escape. That's pretty much what Capcom did to fix the Spider Man UWT reset ie. they fixed tech options after Web Ball.
 
F

FSLink

Banned
Double hadangeki is pretty underused yeah, I always use it if I'm not using ZMC or Zero may Stride.
I've been using Zero/Dante/Frank for the past few weeks and getting level 4/5 with Rekkouha->DT->Sky Dance hard tag setup, but that double TAC setup looks sick. I could never get it to work right though... Any tips?
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Damn Zero TAC glitch into Frank level up. As long as he has two meters he can both kill any character while also leveling up Frank. This might be the most optimized Frank team in the game (as originally theorized).
 
M

MiniBossBattle

Member
Kamisamaa said:
Haha, totally. I'm no artist, nor did I spend any time on them.

This was made to be made fun of, guys. (Also to document who all I had beaten the game with.)
Click to expand...

I wasn't making fun! I love them!

edit: Going through team crisis.
Team Hard Knock(downs)- Nova- Doom (beam)- Strider. OTGs, throws into damage. I feel like its really linear with no weaknesses

Doom (missle)/Storm (ww)/Strange (bolts) - Doom is a good battery and with two meters you can have a safe DHC, You hit strange assist and Doom's DP super bolts for a good mixup, Bolts snipe assist, Storm DHC to snipe assists, Strange DHC to snipe assist and safe if you have Hail Storm. Strange is tough for me to setup/use and Storm is great but feels like I have no damage/life, beside Doom, its hard to get damage off of throws.


VJoe/Spencer/Sentinel love this team but don't know how to play any of these characters. Really thinking of using Sentinel bombs instead of drones.
 
O

onionfrog

Member
I think I might re-buy a copy of Vanilla mvc3, just for the nostalgia of going back and messing around with it.

Also the superior character select screen, character select music, and victory theme.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
The play was optimized but the other guy had poor defense. He dropped two confirms on LVL4 Frank West and was opened up by Zero pressing buttons, no real mix ups at the start of the round.
 
F

FSLink

Banned
Speaking of the Vita version, I've always wanted to see someone play in a tourney with the "Ultimate Controller" feature.
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
i think i'm going to try wolverine/spencer/akuma next, since i kind of miss playing spencer now. i still am not sure how well spencer/akuma works together though.
 
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