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In otherwords, anchor Vergil is more derpy (which isn't a bad thing in this game mind you), but XF2 Vergil + Jam Session will be more solid in the long term.

Anything that would have killed Vergil in the incoming is likely to have killed Dante too anyway, and XF3 Dante is pretty underrated.

Don't forget that with Zero/Doom or Zero/Frank you can TAC glitch with Zero and then TAC infinite/level up Frank.

 

[Dahbomb]

TACing with Zero is sort of redundant as he's going to kill anyway. If his damage wasn't broke his ability to TAC glitch would be pretty stupid.

And Zero can level up Frank without the need to TAC.

 

[FSLink]

TACing with Zero is sort of redundant as he's going to kill anyway. If his damage wasn't broke his ability to TAC glitch would be pretty stupid.

And Zero can level up Frank without the need to TAC.

Of course, but it's an option for those who don't like doing lightning loops and can do the infinite easier or something.

I personally use the Zero/Dante/Frank and level him up that way without the TAC, and just DHC into Dante and then hard tag.

 

[Grecco]

reason I dislike zmc is because of a lack of neutral assist


on the otherhand im not so sure strider will be relevant long term, I kinda think people are figuring out how to punish assist calls of vajira.



I might try zero vergil hawkeye for starters. don't really know .

 

[Dahbomb]

Jam Session and Rapid Slash aren't neutral assists?

Strider's relevancy relies on the characters who abuse him. Two characters who are picked a lot that go well with Strider are Doom and Dante but they are played as supports themselves. Viper has been out of the limelight due to the dominance of Morrigan and Zero, twi characters who give her a hard time. Wesker is pretty much removed from even the top 15 now. That leaves Nova and Vergil who can definitely abuse the assist well. Zero is good with Strider too so we will see again soon especially since Flocker has a pocket Strider who he used to beat ChrisG with once.

If people figure out how to punish Vajra in the air then Vajra players will call it better like Drew Grimey. IMO the risk reward is still in the Vajra player's favor as long as he doesn't spam it hard.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

If you ever want to feel better about yourself, just remember that you're not me and didn't get sent to the losers bracket with a lv3 from Nemesis of all people.

At least I actually won a match in losers that's like a miracle right there.

While on this subject, what's the most "humiliating" loss you guys have had?

A couple of days ago I lost TWICE to xf3 Iron Fist.....and I had all 3 of my characters left both times.

 

[Grecco]

.

If people figure out how to punish Vajra in the air then Vajra players will call it better like Drew Grimey. IMO the risk reward is still in the Vajra player's favor as long as he doesn't spam it hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7A5M5cZDHk

 

[Dahbomb]

Yes I have seen that match and yes I know about the anti-Vajra video that FChamp has put out. But since then Drew Grimey has improved his play and Vajra calls, frequently getting top 3s in their weekly or winning it.

Most other Vajra players though still are bad with their calls. This is just one of those things that will improve with the game's maturity. Vajra ain't going nowhere anytime soon especially when characters like Zero and Morrigan start to become more prominent.

 

[Seyavesh]

Hello it's me your bud tab from the SRK forums. Also that patching theory is fun but unrealistic, ok bye.

edit: Also if ya'll got any questions about Taskmaster or Hawkeye feel free to shoot because I sure love discussing those guys.

 

[Sigmaah]

Morrigans dp super needs a nerf imo, that shit cray and her fireballs should dissapear when she gets hit, at least in astral vision.

Holy shit why the fuck does the game slow down when you kill a character?!?! I HATE THAT SHIT, fucks me up lol.

 

[Dahbomb]

Morrigans dp super needs a nerf imo, that shit cray and her fireballs should dissapear when she gets hit, at least in astral vision.

LOL why? It's not like it's safe or she can combo after it without XF, just block it.

IMO having a regular DP that she can make safe or even combo from is a bigger problem than that hyper but in the grand scheme it isn't even that big of a deal.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Morrigan has a regular dp?

 

[JeTmAn81]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";83367317]Morrigan has a regular dp?[/QUOTE]

Shadow Blade?

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

I like watching Morrigan DP.

 

[Sigmaah]

LOL why? It's not like it's safe or she can combo after it without XF, just block it.

IMO having a regular DP that she can make safe or even combo from is a bigger problem than that hyper but in the grand scheme it isn't even that big of a deal.

I mean like it shouldn't beat out level 3's, it's obvious just to block it, I really hate hearing that answer over and over again but I didn't clarify myself. Also Hype Bionic arm shouldn't beat out level 3's either.

 

[Dahbomb]

I mean like it shouldn't beat out level 3's, it's obvious just to block it, I really hate hearing that answer over and over again but I didn't clarify myself. Also Hype Bionic arm shouldn't beat out level 3's either.

That depends on the invulnerability frames of each hyper. Shadow Servant has a ton of invincibility and will beat out Bionic Arm (quite a few invincible LVL1s beat out Bionic Arm). He only has 11 frames of invincibility on his Bionic Arm... the issue that everyone has with the move is always the distance it covers in a short time plus its hit box. Stuff like Mach Speed beats it out easily even if Mach Speed is activated before Bionic Arm. In fact Bionic Arm loses out to most LVL3 hypers unless they are really shit like Final Justice (which isn't even start up invincible IIRC).

Pretty sure Arthur's LVL3 is the most invincible hyper in the game at 229 frames of invincibility on start up.

As far as I can tell the following LVL1s beat out most LVL3s in the game:

Hard Drive
Gamma Crush
Emergency Combination
Mach Speed
Shadow Servant
Crawler Assault
Survival Techniques (high levels)
Stars and Stripes
Killer Illumination

So this isn't extraordinary and in some of those cases the characters get a combo out of a highly invincible move. If you don't want LVL1s beating out LVL3s then these hypers should be nerfed as well.

 

[Karsticles]

Not to mention that Shadow Servant doesnt even have a fast startup.

 

[TWILT]

Good games Slasher. Always fun to play some sets against you.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

Good games Slasher. Always fun to play some sets against you.

GGs man. Our connection was fairly smooth too. I felt like it was only shaky when I was trying to preform hypers lol. Man your team really makes me practice my defensive game.

 

[Sigmaah]

I dunno, to me I feel like if I spend 3 bars, I should beat out a level 1 no matter what. Why am I spending 3 bars to over power a level 1 but nope level 1 beats me. I shoulda complained about this way earlier in the game but I've really just thought about it now. Maybe the game would be too fucked up if all level 3's beat level 1's? Oh well, it is what it is.

 

[Dahbomb]

By the way for those that don't know, tomorrow Norcal Weekly is doing a "ban" format for their UMVC3 weekly.

It's supposed to be one character ban per player. Rules might change though... I hope it's 2 bans per player at least.

 

[Ghazi]

By the way for those that don't know, tomorrow Norcal Weekly is doing a "ban" format for their UMVC3 weekly.

It's supposed to be one character ban per player. Rules might change though... I hope it's 2 bans per player at least.

Random All for everyone plz.

 

[Sigmaah]

Holy shit I just read the Morrigan changes and no fucking way y'all are submitting that shit with all them goddamn buffs. Destroy Zero but make her better?!?!? WHAT THE FUCK. (Unless it's not updated of course)

 

[Dahbomb]

Holy shit I just read the Morrigan changes and no fucking way y'all are submitting that shit with all them goddamn buffs. Destroy Zero but make her better?!?!? WHAT THE FUCK. (Unless it's not updated of course)

She is supposed to be getting one additional nerf to either her Shell Kick or Shadowblade depending on how Frantic figures out the mechanics for her infinite.

Also the fireball nerf is pretty huge, it would put her closer to Vanilla levels. And of course the Hidden Missile nerfs plus nerfed TACs.

 

[Karsticles]

Holy shit I just read the Morrigan changes and no fucking way y'all are submitting that shit with all them goddamn buffs. Destroy Zero but make her better?!?!? WHAT THE FUCK. (Unless it's not updated of course)

Morrigab is not top tier, Morrigan combined with Hidden Missiles is. We nerfed Hidden Missiles. If you really think Morrigan is too good, I think you need to check yourself.

She is supposed to be getting one additional nerf to either her Shell Kick or Shadowblade depending on how Frantic figures out the mechanics for her infinite.

Also the fireball nerf is pretty huge, it would put her closer to Vanilla levels. And of course the Hidden Missile nerfs plus nerfed TACs.

We have to reduce the minimum hitstun on Shadow Blade and reduce Finishing Shower startup by the same amount. A shell kick nerf won't change the infinite since it spikes.

 

[Dahbomb]

Wouldn't reducing start up on Finishing Shower affect her comboability?

You can also lower the hit stun of Shadow Blade, I actually think that's the main culprit here.

 

[Sigmaah]

Morrigan is her own character, you say she is amazing cause of missiles, sooo Zero is amazing because of Jam. We should super buff Zero and nerf jam?

So this new patch makes Morrigan Zero? Word. OTG SOUL FISTS?!?! Amazing.

If Morrigan gets that, Buster should OTG as well.

 

[Dahbomb]

The fireball damage nerf is huge. It cuts down on her meter gain, combo damage, chip damage and zoning power. Only big buff on her is OTG Soul Fist which won't lead to big damage because she's Morrigan. The rest of the buffs are more to put her in line with other characters like having a useful command grab.

Zero was the best even without Jam Session. And we nerfed Jam Session too.

 

[Sigmaah]

The fireball damage nerf isn't gonna hurt her as bad as you make it seem, she still has astral meter gain, she can still juggle, she can do whatever she's been doing just even better now (not including missiles).

I'm not saying Morrigan is the best character in this game, but she's better then you guys see her no doubt about it. I just don't get why we're giving her extra shit she doesn't need like crumple state after her level 3, and otg soul fists...

 

[Karsticles]

Wouldn't reducing start up on Finishing Shower affect her comboability?

You can also lower the hit stun of Shadow Blade, I actually think that's the main culprit here.

How would less startup on Finishing Shower affect her comboability? You might have to learn to delay the input, but it shouldn't hurt any of her combos. It's also unlikely that it will lead to anything crazy.

Lowering the hitstun on Shadow Blade is uncalled for - we want to mess with the minimum hitstun. Shadow Blade needs its hitstun for conversions.

Morrigan is her own character, you say she is amazing cause of missiles, sooo Zero is amazing because of Jam. We should super buff Zero and nerf jam?

So this new patch makes Morrigan Zero? Word. OTG SOUL FISTS?!?! Amazing.

If Morrigan gets that, Buster should OTG as well.

The Evo world champion doesn't even use Jam Session. Try again. Zero is amazing because he is Zero. He tears entire teams apart with a single hit. There's only one Morrigan player out there who consistently wins, and it's because of a combination of his ridiculously high skill level and Hidden MIssiles.

 

[Zissou]

I wanted OTG soul fists out but everyone else voted them in- don't look at me!

 

[Karsticles]

I updated the Google Dog spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah4zxqcb0_eodHVySXhJc1pUVXhJM1JmcGxmWEdldlE#gid=0

Dahbomb, can you gather everyone's grievances about the various characters so we can iron them out?

I still need re-votes on Sentinel from everyone. Check for your missing votes gents!

I wanted OTG soul fists out but everyone else voted them in- don't look at me!

OTG launcher is better and makes more sense.

Morrigan NEEDS a threat against chicken blocking, and that means her air throws need to lead to combos. It's just that simple. OTG Soul Fist isn't the only way to accomplish this, but it needs to happen.

 

[Dahbomb]

Lowering the hitstun on Shadow Blade is uncalled for - we want to mess with the minimum hitstun. Shadow Blade needs its hitstun for conversions.

That's what I meant although it depends on how much her hit stun and max hit stun are on the move. The amount of value you have to decrease to prevent an infinite is unknown so you might have to adjust it to a point where her hit stun might affect some combos (only late combos though).

Morrigan NEEDS a threat against chicken blocking, and that means her air throws need to lead to combos. It's just that simple. OTG Soul Fist isn't the only way to accomplish this, but it needs to happen.

Doesn't Morrigan have a fast st.L low?

And Morrigan doesn't NEED a threat against Chicken Blocking, her threat is the pressure from chip. It's like saying Arthur needs something against chicken blocking... the only characters who need threats against chicken blocking are pure rushdown characters.

The reason Morrigan is getting something from a throw is because EVERY character is getting something off of throws.

OTG launcher too derpy, definite no for ever on that. Keep the character requiring execution to make her fair.


Yes on Sentinel. I will collect the grievances in a bit once I figure out something on my phone (need to transfer a file of some sort).

 

[Karsticles]

That's what I meant although it depends on how much her hit stun and max hit stun are on the move. The amount of value you have to decrease to prevent an infinite is unknown so you might have to adjust it to a point where her hit stun might affect some combos (only late combos though).

We would leave the details up to Capcom.

Doesn't Morrigan have a fast st.L low?

How does that help against chicken blocking?

And Morrigan doesn't NEED a threat against Chicken Blocking, her threat is the pressure from chip. It's like saying Arthur needs something against chicken blocking... the only characters who need threats against chicken blocking are pure rushdown characters.

Um, we gave Arthur help against chicken blocking. He can convert off of his air throws now without requiring ridiculous execution. Also, Morrigan is only a dominant keepaway character during Astral Vision. Otherwise she's nothing special in that avenue. Hawkeye gets combos off of his throws pretty easily.

Yes on Sentinel. I will collect the grievances in a bit once I figure out something on my phone (need to transfer a file of some sort).

K.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think you are misunderstanding.

The whole game of chicken blocking is that you either have to block the fast low or up back and chicken block. If you try to chicken block while they are throwing out a fast low, it beats the chicken block (because you are pressing up back). This is basically the whole game with command grab characters like Wesker, they are making you guess between having to block low or chicken block.

Morrigan is not that type of character because she does not really care if you are in the air because she just wants you to be blocking fireballs (in the air or on the ground). Same for Arthur, he just wants you to take his projectiles. This is why these characters lack the ground movement to prevent them from being absurd anti chicken blocking characters.

Giving them an air throw would still make them weak against chicken block because they can't get to them in time before they up back. In Morrigan's case though if she locks you down the mix up is crazy so you just have to take that shit.

A character who had a weak up back game was Iron Fist. Fucking horrendous... you could up back all day against him. He could still combo off of forward throws but that didn't change the fact that his anti chicken block game was dildos. And besides when people up back they are looking for throws as well so basically the entire defense against IF is up back + H which he can't do shit about. The change made to Iron Fist's cr.L is the real difference on the character in terms of him combatting up back because if they up back combined with his fast ground dash he will clip them in the jump animations with his low leading into a full combo.

 

[Karsticles]

I think you are misunderstanding.

The whole game of chicken blocking is that you either have to block the fast low or up back and chicken block. If you try to chicken block while they are throwing out a fast low, it beats the chicken block (because you are pressing up back). This is basically the whole game with command grab characters like Wesker, they are making you guess between having to block low or chicken block.

Morrigan is not that type of character because she does not really care if you are in the air because she just wants you to be blocking fireballs (in the air or on the ground). Same for Arthur, he just wants you to take his projectiles. This is why these characters lack the ground movement to prevent them from being absurd anti chicken blocking characters.

Giving them an air throw would still make them weak against chicken block because they can't get to them in time before they up back. In Morrigan's case though if she locks you down the mix up is crazy so you just have to take that shit.

Characters who had a weak up back game was Iron Fist. Fucking horrendous... you could up back all day against him. He could still combo off of forward throws but that didn't change the fact that his anti chicken block game was dildos. And besides when people up back they are looking for throws as well so basically the entire defense against IF is up back + H which he can't do shit about. The change made to Iron Fist's cr.L is the real difference on the character in terms of him combatting up back because if they up back combined with his fast ground dash he will clip them in the jump animations with his low leading into a full combo.

You are not understanding chicken blocks against Morrigan. Against a character like Wolverine or Wesker, lows beat chicken blocking because you dash in and hit them during the pre-jump frames. Morrigan has no ground dash; her approach is always through a high attack (j.H or j.S, usually). Her s.L does not matter because you always pushblock her advance. She needs a pinning assist to ever open someone up. There is no high/low game for Morrigan without the pin. And if you are pinned, then it's not about chicken blocking vs. s.L, it's about surviving the mix-up. She has no anti-chicken blocking tools.

 

[Dahbomb]

Character grievances:

Spider Man: Nerf on Web Throw, still some debate on Web Glide.

Taskmaster : Most of us seem to want the unblockable change reverted back to original status. Other than the character is fine.

Thor: Mighty Speech change is almost unanimous. Need to re-instate his Mighty Strike assist but in a buffed state (charged so its armored and can negate projectiles). I think someone suggested that it be horizontal so it would be like a Tatsu expansion assist.

Trish: Problems against minimum height dash change, problems against Low Voltage and a problem on Hop Scotch.

Vergil: There was a grievance on his SS being a LVL2 but that seems settled now.

Wesker: I think this is unanimous.

X23: Unanimous.

Wolverine: Swiss Cheese change and two people want his base damage reduced by 5%.

Viewtiful Joe: Charged Voomerang change grievance (not sure what the actual grievance here is)

Zero: Buster changes

She needs a pinning assist to ever open someone up.

So like most characters in the game especially zoning characters. Not to mention now she has a comboable air AND ground command grab, something very few characters in the game have (a tool only reserved for heavy grapplers) so it's not like it's going to be that difficult opening someone with her as long as you get close.

Zoning characters aren't really supposed to have anti chicken blocking tools because their whole game involves chipping you to death anyway. That's like asking for better anti chicking block game on Ghost Rider when he is getting chips on normal. Unless you are trying to argue that Morrigan should be considered as a hybrid zoning/mix up/rushdown/grappler character in which case then we need to nerf her zoning game even further.

Best to leave the argument here otherwise we might have to go back on some changes on the character. The reason Morrigan is getting the OTG fireball is simply that EVERY character is getting something off of throws so it was unfair to leave her behind.

 

[Karsticles]

Character grievances:

Taskmaster : Most of us seem to want the unblockable change reverted back to original status. Other than the character is fine.

The overhead is so much more useful, and Taskmaster is not good at opening people up. I don't know why people want the unblockable instead. Isn't it better to have something that's actually useful in a variety of circumstances?

Thor: Mighty Speech change is almost unanimous. Need to re-instate his Mighty Strike assist but in a buffed state (charged so its armored and can negate projectiles). I think someone suggested that it be horizontal so it would be like a Tatsu expansion assist.

Yeah, I will change this tomorrow or something. If folks want to vote for Thor based on the assumption that he will have a charged Mighty Strike assist instead, they are welcome to.

Trish: Problems against minimum height dash change, problems against Low Voltage and a problem on Hop Scotch.

I disagree with Frantic that the Hop Scotch speed increase is unimportant. Right now it's far too easy for characters to jump right over Hop Scotch - that needs to change. I'm fine with getting rid of the minimum air dash height change, and we can talk about Low Voltage.

Vergil: There was a grievance on his SS being a LVL2 but that seems settled now.

Wesker: I think this is unanimous.

X23: Unanimous.

Hopefully.

Wolverine: Swiss Cheese change and two people want his base damage reduced by 5%.

We've really nerfed his ability to open people up, and we also nerfed his damage. Does he really need more?

Viewtiful Joe: Charged Voomerang change grievance (not sure what the actual grievance here is)

Zero: Buster changes

My ears are open.

 

[Dahbomb]

You need to specify the exact Thor Mighty Strike change. Is it the straight forward version that is fully charged but comes out as fast a regular Strike? If so I approve of it. I would be fine with a diagonal version as well.

We've really nerfed his ability to open people up, and we also nerfed his damage. Does he really need more?

His base damage is still too high and his ability to open up people is still absurdly strong. We only nerfed his Fatal Claw, his damage from baby mode combos is still too high especially for a character who can so easily open people up. 5% is not a lot but it would put his damage more in line with the other rushdown characters.

The overhead is so much more useful, and Taskmaster is not good at opening people up. I don't know why people want the unblockable instead. Isn't it better to have something that's actually useful in a variety of circumstances?

The overhead WOULD be more useful but it's a drastic change and it would still screw over people who built synergies around that move. It's just not a change I am comfortable with and it's hard to put into words why that is so. The overhead wouldn't really increase his tier ranking or anything... an unblockable is still a strong tool to have in the pocket especially on the right team.


Also I forgot one more grievance... Skrull not falling prone after Inferno. Mostly because if he can recover in mid air from Inferno he would get full combos after it which would be pretty derpy.

 

[Zissou]

My grievence with charged voomerangs is they are really really difficult for many characters to deal with once joe gets going with his super jump charged voomerang pattern. Dieminion gets wins with his somewhat poorly constructed team off mostly off of this single tool. I want it to be good, but I don't like how it is now. I'm still thinking how I'd like it changed... maybe nerf tracking a bit?

 

[Karsticles]

You need to specify the exact Thor Mighty Strike change. Is it the straight forward version that is fully charged but comes out as fast a regular Strike? If so I approve of it. I would be fine with a diagonal version as well.

We'll do the horizontal charged version and have it come out at around 38 frames - sound good?

His base damage is still too high and his ability to open up people is still absurdly strong. We only nerfed his Fatal Claw, his damage from baby mode combos is still too high especially for a character who can so easily open people up. 5% is not a lot but it would put his damage more in line with the other rushdown characters.

I feel like you're underestimating the effects of the OS throw nerf we instituted. That will really hurt his pressure. Wolverine can't just jump in your face and dive kick anymore. He's probably a top 10 character in the game's current state, and I don't think we should mess with that too much. Especially since Wolverine suffers from a universal health buff.

The overhead WOULD be more useful but it's a drastic change and it would still screw over people who built synergies around that move. It's just not a change I am comfortable with and it's hard to put into words why that is so. The overhead wouldn't really increase his tier ranking or anything... an unblockable is still a strong tool to have in the pocket especially on the right team.

I'm anti-unblockables in general, so you know where I stand. Of course, we need 3 votes to change it to an overhead, so I will likely lose this one.

My grievence with charged voomerangs is they are really really difficult for many characters to deal with once joe gets going with his super jump charged voomerang pattern. Dieminion gets wins with his somewhat poorly constructed team off mostly off of this single tool. I want it to be good, but I don't like how it is now. I'm still thinking how I'd like it changed... maybe nerf tracking a bit?

There are actually a lot of answers to it, people just don't know them because Viewtiful Joe is so uncommon. Also, charged Voomerangs are effective partially for the same reason Chris gets so many ground throws - nobody knows when the blockstun is done. We fixed the visuals, and I think that's enough to bring it in line. He can't even block during the charge - I think the reward is deserved when he earns it.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah I kinda don't like the "Charge Voomerangs don't disappear on hit if Joe is hit". Creeping into Phoenix TK shots territory of annoyingness.

On the Taskmaster change, Frantic and I were opposed to it Zissou was 50/50 (he said he would swing either way). I am anti unblockable too but since Viper and Firebrand still have theirs in tact there is less need to remove Taskmaster's unblockable.

I feel like you're underestimating the effects of the OS throw nerf we instituted. That will really hurt his pressure. Wolverine can't just jump in your face and dive kick anymore. He's probably a top 10 character in the game's current state, and I don't think we should mess with that too much. Especially since Wolverine suffers from a universal health buff.

He can still jump in and dive kick all day long, his pressure is still strong. Not brain dead but still very effective.

Wolverine benefits from a health buff more than other characters because he is sitting pretty at 950K.

 

[Professor Beef]

The only grievance I remember bringing up with VJoe and his Voomerangs is that I want the non-charged ones to not go away when he gets hit. If someone brought something else up, then it might be lost in the aether.

My grievence with charged voomerangs is they are really really difficult for many characters to deal with once joe gets going with his super jump charged voomerang pattern. Dieminion gets wins with his somewhat poorly constructed team off mostly off of this single tool. I want it to be good, but I don't like how it is now. I'm still thinking how I'd like it changed... maybe nerf tracking a bit?

They're fine as it is. They don't move all that fast, so unless you're using Team Armor or a team with no projectiles then it's not tough to get around them. You have to remember that it takes a while to charge them. There's just enough time on Joe's super jump to get a charged one out there, and that's if you're good at TKing them.

 

[Dahbomb]

Joe is already a hard to hit character, adding in combo breaking Voomerangs would put his annoying levels to new heights. Characters who had trouble against that will be in even worse shape now.

It's not a change to take lightly, needs more deliberation on.

There were some grievances on Spencer as well but I don't remember them. Probably Bionic Lancer stuff and the other buffs he got as well as a way to fix his infinite.

 

[Karsticles]

Yeah I kinda don't like the "Charge Voomerangs don't disappear on hit if Joe is hit". Creeping into Phoenix TK shots territory of annoyingness.

Re-read it. It's only the uncharged Voomerangs that don't disappear.

On the Taskmaster change, Frantic and I were opposed to it Zissou was 50/50 (he said he would swing either way). I am anti unblockable too but since Viper and Firebrand still have theirs in tact there is less need to remove Taskmaster's unblockable.

Woah woah. Firebrand is not cemented at all. Don't use him as an example for anything just yet.

I'm not a fan of the C. Viper unblockable, but it's highly situational right now at least.

He can still jump in and dive kick all day long, his pressure is still strong. Not brain dead but still very effective.

Wolverine benefits from a health buff more than other characters because he is sitting pretty at 950K.

Right now, Wolverine players burn Berserker Charge early on because it tends to land them a dead character. That won't happen anymore, and Wolverine players will have to open players up without the speed boost.

 

[Dahbomb]

Oh crap I misread it. If it's the regular Voomerangs that don't disappear on hit then I am A-OK with it. I really think that the wording might need to be tweaked because that threw off at least two people here.

Viper's unblockable is now situational as is Taskmaster's unblockable. Difference is that Viper's unblockable comes with hyper armor, full stagger and cancelability. Firebrand will probably need two versions submitted although with the other 2 hard unblockables remaining chances are that we will probably agree to the unblockable version.

Wolverines burn Berserker Charge early on because they know they can just TAC and still kill anyway (like what PRRog does). Even without the damage nerf they will be burning Berserker Charge much less. This would make it so that they have to fight in non BC mode just a bit longer.

 

[Professor Beef]

Oh crap I misread it. If it's the regular Voomerangs that don't disappear on hit then I am A-OK with it. I really think that the wording might need to be tweaked because that threw off at least two people here.

Yeah, I should reword that. I'm perfectly fine with charged Voomerangs going away on hit.

Regular Voomerangs: don't disappear on hit
Charged Voomerangs: no changes

 

[Karsticles]

Oh crap I misread it. If it's the regular Voomerangs that don't disappear on hit then I am A-OK with it. I really think that the wording might need to be tweaked because that threw off at least two people here.

Viper's unblockable is now situational as is Taskmaster's unblockable. Difference is that Viper's unblockable comes with hyper armor, full stagger and cancelability. Firebrand will probably need two versions submitted although with the other 2 hard unblockables remaining chances are that we will probably agree to the unblockable version.

Wolverines burn Berserker Charge early on because they know they can just TAC and still kill anyway (like what PRRog does). Even without the damage nerf they will be burning Berserker Charge much less. This would make it so that they have to fight in non BC mode just a bit longer.

The wording specifically says non-charged Voomerangs.

And your Wolverine comment is further proof that we need to hold back on further nerfs.

 

[Seyavesh]

Taskmaster with a Spencer speed or less overhead he could do on command without an unblockable would be pretty dang good, but not better than any of the current top 5.

Having both would be fine since his unblockable is ultra gimmicky and ultimately not too useful considering how it's throwable in most 'setups' that exist with it.

 

["God's Beard!"]

(charged so its armored

You guys took out my mighty strike buff? That was like the main one.