XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
I agree with you, I was just point out a suggestion for those that want something done about it.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
I agree with you, I was just point out a suggestion for those that want something done about it.
You know what's hilarious? I felt like the best when I could consistently do 5+ of these in a training mode environment (because that would translate to about 2 and 2 more after a FADC in match environments for me, enough to get my Seismo + Vajra stupidity going). I take a 2 month break from Marvel to play Guilty Gear and have to re-learn/actually learn how to do my motions then play around in training mode and I'm clocking in the 30s with no signs of slowing down.
I love when my execution gets better from doing nothing. :lol
The Mango Sentinel
Member
That happens to me a lot with all games in general, not just fighting games. It's really bizarre. I remember getting stuck on Freya in Guitar Hero 2 and then I just said fuck it and didn't play for about 2 months and then when I came back I beat the shit in one try :|
I was honestly kind of pissed.
But yeah I'd really like to play Viper and learn some of her more crazy shit, but I'm just a stubborn idiot and won't play her unless I can get this shit.
Really, the only things you need to know with Viper are a good Seismo-FADC chain (I like 2 seismos of varying strength back to back - dash forward for pressure; Strider assist when necessary), the window to jump cancel her Seismos into all her other specials (it's a small one but not as small as one things right off the bat), and Focus Attack - Thunder Knuckle H combos for psuedo-Guard Cancels.
I'd also make a note to smooth out/learn the proper means to input Burn Kick Feints in the air for traveling. I used to have a brief period of time where I would be able to stall in the air with them but couldn't dash down because my inputs were bad and I'd use the second action (that would typically be used on a Air Dash Down) on an accidental double jump before a feint. Stuff like that is so under emphasized but can make a hell of a lot of difference playing her regularly.
I'd also make a note to smooth out/learn the proper means to input Burn Kick Feints in the air for traveling. I used to have a brief period of time where I would be able to stall in the air with them but couldn't dash down because my inputs were bad and I'd use the second action (that would typically be used on a Air Dash Down) on an accidental double jump before a feint. Stuff like that is so under emphasized but can make a hell of a lot of difference playing her regularly.
Alright so back to the patch talk so we can wrap this and put it behind us:
Morrigan: Still need a change on her infinite. Either Frantic or Karst needs to finalize this. If you guys can't figure it out then just say "remove Shadow Blade/Shell Kick infinite" and be done with it.
And while we are on the discussion of Morrigan... why is she getting an air OK command grab? Never mind the balancing issues behind it... this qualifies as a new animation because you have to animate a new air whiff animation for that command throw. They obviously can't use the ground animation for the ground animation in this case. Now that she can combo off of her air throws anyway this change seems quite frankly over the top.
Rocket Raccoon, MODOK, Firebrand, Taskmaster discussion has been postponed because I feel all these characters are related and should be tackled at once on the whole unblockable controversy. On Taskmaster I think most people agreed with reverting the change back to the original, just need a second confirmation from Zissou on this so we can get it rolling.
Spencer - I have begrudgingly agreed with the Bionic Arm nerf but please revert that launcher buff, it's not going to do anything for the character. Also needs a better fix on the infinite, this is also Frantic's job. Either that or just change it to "Remove Swing Wire infinite" and leave it to Capcom to figure it out.
Spider Man - Needs compensation for Web Glide change. I suggested that start up can be block canceled but the actual glide can be so once he has committed to it, it's a commitment but he can get out of it before it's too late.
Super Skrull - Needs fixing on the no prone after Inferno to prevent combos after it. Also a wording difference, Skull Torch should read as "is now invincinble from frame 1". I don't think everyone knows what "full invincibility" actually means.
Thor - Mightly Speech change needs to be removed, it's still on the list. Assist needs to be changed with the new agreed upon Mighty Strike change.
Trish - This is mostly a Frantic vs Karst discussion but I will just add my two cents the minimum air dash change has to go, it's not needed.
Wolverine - I still feel that he needs a 5% reduction in base damage. His easy mode damage is still too high for how easily he opens people up.
Zero - Frantic needs to talk about which Buster changes he wants fixed because he sort of left us hanging.
The rest of the characters are more or less agreed upon.
Morrigan: Still need a change on her infinite. Either Frantic or Karst needs to finalize this. If you guys can't figure it out then just say "remove Shadow Blade/Shell Kick infinite" and be done with it.
And while we are on the discussion of Morrigan... why is she getting an air OK command grab? Never mind the balancing issues behind it... this qualifies as a new animation because you have to animate a new air whiff animation for that command throw. They obviously can't use the ground animation for the ground animation in this case. Now that she can combo off of her air throws anyway this change seems quite frankly over the top.
Rocket Raccoon, MODOK, Firebrand, Taskmaster discussion has been postponed because I feel all these characters are related and should be tackled at once on the whole unblockable controversy. On Taskmaster I think most people agreed with reverting the change back to the original, just need a second confirmation from Zissou on this so we can get it rolling.
Spencer - I have begrudgingly agreed with the Bionic Arm nerf but please revert that launcher buff, it's not going to do anything for the character. Also needs a better fix on the infinite, this is also Frantic's job. Either that or just change it to "Remove Swing Wire infinite" and leave it to Capcom to figure it out.
Spider Man - Needs compensation for Web Glide change. I suggested that start up can be block canceled but the actual glide can be so once he has committed to it, it's a commitment but he can get out of it before it's too late.
Super Skrull - Needs fixing on the no prone after Inferno to prevent combos after it. Also a wording difference, Skull Torch should read as "is now invincinble from frame 1". I don't think everyone knows what "full invincibility" actually means.
Thor - Mightly Speech change needs to be removed, it's still on the list. Assist needs to be changed with the new agreed upon Mighty Strike change.
Trish - This is mostly a Frantic vs Karst discussion but I will just add my two cents the minimum air dash change has to go, it's not needed.
Wolverine - I still feel that he needs a 5% reduction in base damage. His easy mode damage is still too high for how easily he opens people up.
Zero - Frantic needs to talk about which Buster changes he wants fixed because he sort of left us hanging.
The rest of the characters are more or less agreed upon.
Karsticles
Member
I updated the notes.
They could use her old command grab whiff animation and just put bats under her to create a floating effect. No new animations required.
It's 2 vs 2 for Taskmaster, and I think it's important to recognize that Taskmaster is better off with the overhead over an unblockable. It's a buff to the character while also removing dumb play - win-win.
Fair enough.
We're giving Spider-man quite a bit already, don't you think?
He won't be able to combo after Inferno. I will change the wording.
I know - I've been a bit busy.
Nah, those were GBs changes. I don't care about the minimum air dash change.
I am still skeptical about this.
That command grab whiff doesn't make sense in the air, she is tripping over her legs... in the air?
Also then you get into the balance aspect of it which makes even less sense. Only two characters have aerial command grabs and that's Haggar plus Thor. Those characters need it because they are grappler characters but Morrigan isn't. Makes no real sense for her to have an air OK command grab especially one she gets a combo off of because she isn't a grappler. I saw the reasoning behind the change when she didn't have OTG fireballs but now she does so she has that air throw combo ability but having a comboable aerial command grab? Nah that's OD.
On Spider Man I don't think he's getting enough to justify his spot on a team. The only big change he is getting is comboable Maximum Spider AND maybe his assist changes (which go from shit to semi usable). Compared to the rest of the cast in this patch he is looking kinda dry. Not as much damage as before, not as good mobility in terms of safety. Something big for him would be like having UWT be air OK.
I already recognize the Taskmaster change as a legitimate buff but it's still coming at the cost of the loss of an unblockable (a hard one). No matter how it's diced, a hard unblockable is a big thing to lose even if it's situational. My opinion on that is we do it like Firebrand and submit two versions (unblockable and non unblockable version). Either that or we simply take a full on "no unblockables" stance and remove all of them including Viper's but in Viper's case that move becomes completely useless outside of absorbing moves.
Honestly, at this point, I'm willing to just accept the changes. I don't feel like arguing over it anymore, haha.
I will try to figure out something for the Morrigan and Spencer infinites, though.
Karsticles
Member
I CLEARED THE VOTES FOR THOR, SPENCER, AND TRISH - PLEASE RE-VOTE.
FRANTIC, ARE YOU OK WITH VERGIL AS-IS?
Ugh, let's not do two versions - it just makes us seem wishy-washy. I'm going to vote on removing Firebrand's unblockable. Ditto for Taskmaster.
Spider-man is one of the two safest aerial characters, with the other being Spencer. That said, I'm totally cool with UWT being air OK.
It will be hard as hell to land her command grab with her wonky air dashes anyway. It will just be a way to ensure people can't hold up-back against her and laugh when she's trying to rush.
The goal should be to create a Morrigan that is viable without Hidden Missiles, especially since we nerfed them.
FRANTIC, ARE YOU OK WITH VERGIL AS-IS?
Ugh, let's not do two versions - it just makes us seem wishy-washy. I'm going to vote on removing Firebrand's unblockable. Ditto for Taskmaster.
Spider-man is one of the two safest aerial characters, with the other being Spencer. That said, I'm totally cool with UWT being air OK.
She's not tripping over her legs. She's leaning forward and balancing on one leg. If she's standing on her bats, it makes sense still.
Morrigan only gets used for Astral Vision, and we are toning that down. Her rushdown game is very weak because she only has one approach - air dashes. These air dashes are slow and easy to see coming. It makes sense to give her some tool to help her open up chicken blockers. If you look at the characters who have no real ground dash, they all have tools to open up chicken blockers. Doom has his ambiguous foot dive and bunny hop mix-ups, and Dormammu has his cross-up aerials and teleports. "Morrigan is a keepaway character" is a sad answer - nearly every character in this game is capable of both.
It will be hard as hell to land her command grab with her wonky air dashes anyway. It will just be a way to ensure people can't hold up-back against her and laugh when she's trying to rush.
The goal should be to create a Morrigan that is viable without Hidden Missiles, especially since we nerfed them.
I don't think making her a grappler is the answer. None of the reasons you provided come close to even justifying it. We nerfed her Soul Fist game, we didn't remove it which means she will still crush people. And Missiles still exist, no point in pretending like we removed them from the game which means that strat is still viable and still powerful.
If freakin Haggar can land aerial command grabs then Morrigan is not going to have any issue with that either.
If freakin Haggar can land aerial command grabs then Morrigan is not going to have any issue with that either.
Karsticles
Member
Hidden Missiles is not nearly as strong now - this is a big nerf to it.
Morrigan is not a grappler with this change; grapplers get most of their damage from throws. Morrigan is not going to be running in for throw setups. It's a trick to ensure she can open people up if she is desperate. Her throw combos are going to be awful anyway. Like, Firebrand levels of damage with her scaling (~300K).
Missiles are still strong. They still lock down, they still OTG, they still have limited combo breaking capability and they still track. We nerfed it we didn't remove that strat.
There are plenty of characters who lack good ground movement and lack ways to open up someone who is just jumping around... because those characters have powerful projectiles like Arthur and Joe. As far as I am concerned, being able to get combos off of air throw is a buff enough against jumpers.
Morrigan has average scaling (better than FB when factoring in specials) and giving her an aerial command grab means her aerial reset game went up by a fuck ton.
There are plenty of characters who lack good ground movement and lack ways to open up someone who is just jumping around... because those characters have powerful projectiles like Arthur and Joe. As far as I am concerned, being able to get combos off of air throw is a buff enough against jumpers.
Morrigan has average scaling (better than FB when factoring in specials) and giving her an aerial command grab means her aerial reset game went up by a fuck ton.
Karsticles
Member
Viewtiful Joe has a slide for lows, though, and the most ambiguous overhead in the game. He has a much easier time opening people up than Morrigan does. We buffed the hell out of Arthur, and he's probably the strongest keepaway character in the game now. We also gave Arthur some nice rushdown and defensive buffs.
Morrigan doesn't go for aerial resets, she puts opponents in hard knockdown for Astral Vision - that won't change with this. Check out Morrigan's combo damage - her throws are not going to be destroying teams.
What does a slide have to do with a character jumping around? The slide is not fast enough to catch chicken blockers and its not even that long ranged. Joe can't open up aerial characters at all and he doesn't need to... give him a neutral assist and a lockdown assist he will do work... just like Morrigan. Besides we already buffed Joe's throw game... we aren't giving him air OK command grabs to make him "viable" because like Morrigan he already is.
Morrigan doesn't go for resets because she doesn't have an aerial command grab. If she gets that it would be a core part of her game even with her damage. Why give the opponent a chance to play and burn meter when you can go for aerial command grab resets to finish off when they are low? That just gives them more options to survive. That old style of hard knockdown into AV was really her only option but now she even has OTG fireballs to tack on the damage. Basically her game would be get a hars knockdown after a long combo, hit them OTG with a fireball then parabolic dash up for a command throw. This is some dirty shit.
Karsticles
Member
The slide is fast enough to catch chicken blocks after a Voomerang, which is how Joe gets in. His Voomerangs also bring people to the ground, and he has the amazing j.S for ambiguous cross-ups. Morrigan does not have this same setup and experience. The issue is that Morrigan has no way to open up chicken blockers, but Viewtiful Joe does. It doesn't have to be an air throw for all air dash characters, but they do need something.
And Morrigan gets in with Soul Fist into air dash then hit then with the st.L as they try to block the Soul Fist and try to chicken block it. In fact FChamp did that just yesterday against a Taskmaster trying to up back he got opened up.
That Shell Kick crosses up too by the way.
Even if say Joe and Morrigan are about in par now... that command grab change would put Morrigan significantly ahead of Joe due to the threat of blocking in the air against her. Its bad enough having to block her god damn fireballs, now you have to worry about her getting guaranteed throw set ups off of blocked fireballs. I mean I can see it now, she does Fireball into air dash, you push block staying in the air while she lands and then jumps up for command grab which you can't do anything about. No character in the game can do that shit and that is why no one like Joe and Morrigan has a tool like that, its ridiculous.
That Shell Kick crosses up too by the way.
Even if say Joe and Morrigan are about in par now... that command grab change would put Morrigan significantly ahead of Joe due to the threat of blocking in the air against her. Its bad enough having to block her god damn fireballs, now you have to worry about her getting guaranteed throw set ups off of blocked fireballs. I mean I can see it now, she does Fireball into air dash, you push block staying in the air while she lands and then jumps up for command grab which you can't do anything about. No character in the game can do that shit and that is why no one like Joe and Morrigan has a tool like that, its ridiculous.
MORRIGAN DESERVES EVERYTHING.
I am curious to see what the other two guys think about this because the more I think about it the more absurd this change sounds. Granted this change was approved BEFORE the OTG fireballs but now she is literally a zoning character who is also an excellent grappler. It makes no sense to me.
Karsticles
Member
LOL, bitter Sigma. It must be hard having to try now and then with Zero...
And saying that Morrigan could do command grab setups like that is unrealistic. No one talks about "OMG Thor + Hidden Missiles - if you block in the air he gets a command grab!" If you pushblock Morrigan she won't be able to command grab you before you land, and if you don't pushblock her you will land anyway.
Noooo, Shell Kick does not cross up except at very specific points. It is not at all like Viewtiful Joe's j.S. You need to check your hitboxes. If you had the game and could turn it on, you would see what I am talking about. Joe's j.S is massive and crosses up ambiguously and easy. Morrigan's j.S can only cross up if you are lucky.
Morrigan has a command grab, Viewtiful Joe has an invincible, meterless reversal into full combos.
And saying that Morrigan could do command grab setups like that is unrealistic. No one talks about "OMG Thor + Hidden Missiles - if you block in the air he gets a command grab!" If you pushblock Morrigan she won't be able to command grab you before you land, and if you don't pushblock her you will land anyway.
Um, you voted "yes" for the full changelist for her...everyone but Zissou did.
I don't really agree with aerial command throw for Morrigan. The notion of 'Morrigan has no options against chicken block' is kind of a weak reason to give her a tool that only two grapplers have. She still has Astral Vision, which still makes her the only character who can have fireballs coming from behind a character, so she is still capable of making offense when properly assisted.
At the same time, I don't really care.
At the same time, I don't really care.
Hey I said Shell Kick crossed up not that it did better than Pizza Cutter. Don't need to check hit boxes for that getting hit by crossed up Shell Kick once is enough. It's like saying IM has no cross up moves, he does in his j.S.
I didn't vote Y for the latest Morrigan changelist because we were all debating her infinite fix. The character was not approved until that change was made anyway. Until the final changelist is put up the whole character is fair game.
And no one talks about Thor and Missiles because he does not have slow fireballs that he can fly cancel into an air dash forward nor does he have AV to double his fireball presence. Thor with Missiles is not even close to being comparable to Morrigan with Missiles in terms of overall pressure.
Frantic disagreeing with the command throw change now puts it into the territory of being removed because new changes need 3/4 votes to be put in.
And what the hell does an aerial command grab have to do with a comboable invincible move? Worst analogy made thus far comparing an air move with a ground only hyper move. I guess I should compare Pizza Cutter to a LVL 3 air hyper if we are just comparing random ass tools for the sake of argument.
I didn't vote Y for the latest Morrigan changelist because we were all debating her infinite fix. The character was not approved until that change was made anyway. Until the final changelist is put up the whole character is fair game.
And no one talks about Thor and Missiles because he does not have slow fireballs that he can fly cancel into an air dash forward nor does he have AV to double his fireball presence. Thor with Missiles is not even close to being comparable to Morrigan with Missiles in terms of overall pressure.
Frantic disagreeing with the command throw change now puts it into the territory of being removed because new changes need 3/4 votes to be put in.
And what the hell does an aerial command grab have to do with a comboable invincible move? Worst analogy made thus far comparing an air move with a ground only hyper move. I guess I should compare Pizza Cutter to a LVL 3 air hyper if we are just comparing random ass tools for the sake of argument.
Karsticles
Member
For all intents and purposes, Shell Kick does not cross up.
You know this is bullshit. You voted "Y" for the change, and that's why there's a goddamn "Y" there in the list.
The point is that Thor sitting beneath you while you eat Missiles is not scary, and it won't be for Morrigan, either.
All of the flip-flopping really does get old. Let me know when my votes are needed again. You know where I stand on most of this.
Thank you for making my point. Viewtiful Joe and Morrigan are very different characters with very different toolsets.
The Y is for the change which listed the Shell Kick nerf. That's removed now so we needed a new voting after the change on the infinite is approved. Until that happens the Morrigan changelog is unfinished. This is how we have been doing it all along.
I guess we will just wait for Zissou on this.
I guess we will just wait for Zissou on this.
Professor Beef
Banned
One thing that I may have forgot to mention that I don't know if it was added or not:
- make Joe's crouching Medium not move him backwards.
- make Joe's crouching Medium not move him backwards.
Karsticles
Member
The "Y" is for the full fucking change log, and you know that. Stop pretending like you didn't think the aerial command grab was OK before. It's goddamn stupid.
You know what else is stupid? Defending inescapable unblockables as a legitimate character tool while claiming that an aerial command grab is too strong.
Karsticles
Member
Considering that you're pulling a Gods_Beard, I don't doubt that.
Pulling a God's Beard as in...?
No need to get salty over this. People change their minds. No one caught the infinite change before (not even you a Morrigan specialist) and it almost got approved. Stuff is overlooked all the time, until this whole thing is finalized everything is fair game.
I have already allocated the unblockable characters for a separate discussion. Quite honestly if I had my way I would remove all hard and soft unblockables in the game but that is not feasible because A) not all characters are created equal and B) some people like these unlockables. Even without these unlockables soft unblockables would exist in the form of stuff like Dante Grapple with assist and Fallen Prey with assist. So if you want a hard ball stance on unblockable then go all the way....revert Fallen Prey, change Grapple.
Its not that unblockables are more fair than aerial command grabs... its that an aerial command grab on Morrigan with OTG fireballs is dumb. You can have the aerial command grab if the OTG fireball is reverted.
Karsticles
Member
Insincere committals. Voting "yes" when you didn't agree with something. That seriously pisses me off. Why bother doing this if you aren't sincere?
I am annoyed because we are backtracking instead of moving forward, and because Frantic was not sincere in his vote. Why are we talking about Morrigan's command grab now when we finished her except for the infinite? It is one thing to forget to add a chabge, but for people to recognize that they don't support something they did reeks of sloppy decision making. It is not about the command grab, it is about how sloppy you both were with your votes. It is not like this is some nuance you might have overlooked in judging the character. It is blatantly listed in the changes
Dante grapple + low assist is not an unblockable. Raw tags beat it, so it is just a 50/50 that looks scary. If we remove all solo unblockables, the only inescapable unblockable left to worry about is Round Harvest setups, and I would be fine with us working some change out there. I just don't know how to address that one.
Neither of your pro-unblockable points make sense. It does not matter if some people like unblockables. Some people liked Vanilla Phoenix. All characters are not created equal, but if a character is reliant on unblockables to have an edge, then that character needs help so they do not have to rely on a 1 player game gimmick.
Re: Morrigan. No one uses her without Hidden Missiles. She has a huge number of problems as a character. She does need very real help as a character. To put it differently, we all know Wolverine is good because he performs well when backed by tatsu, plasma beam, shopping cart, etc. Morrigan only performs well with one assist, and we nerfed that assist substantially. Her needs as a character without hidden missiles need to be looked at. She has the most linear approach in the game, and that needs to change somehow. She needs something to help her open opponents up. If not the command grab, then something else. Personally, I like the command grab because I feel like it fits the hole perfectly, and it makes sense aesthetically.
I am open to other suggestions, but this is something that needs to be addressed.
I'm not being 'insincere' with my vote. I suppose my comment made it seem that way, but I don't really agree nor disagree with giving Morrigan an aerial command throw. It's a change that I personally would not add, but I don't care if it stays or if it's removed. That's where my "don't really care" comment comes from. It can stay or go, I don't care either way. Call me insincere if you want, but I only vote "No" if it's something I genuinely disagree with. For the record, I still vote 'Yes' for Morrigan. I was just adding my two cents to the conversation, and figured my 'don't care comment' meant I was still staying with a 'Yes'. I actually laughed at Dahbomb's post how we should revote, and was going to comment on it, but I ended up getting distracted and forgot about it when I came back to new posts(and only remembered after rereading the past few posts.).
And, since I voted Yes on Zero because I didn't want to argue, I'll go ahead and say that I simply voted Yes because I stated all my points as to why I disagree back when you first made the change. I would just be reiterating the same thing, and I don't really have time to argue over something I've already argued over once before. I figured since we're all getting busier that instead of arguing the same thing again and wasting time, I'd just vote yes and get it out of the way since everyone else seems to agree with it.
I also vote Yes for Vergil. After discussing about it, I've come around to the idea. It is the simplest way to change it without going overboard on changes.
This is false. You can't raw tag it if it's set up properly. Well, you can, but it leads to punishment. There's a timing that will both unblockable the opposing character, and get Dante out of harms way of any attempts at a raw tag(where they'll end up coming from the opposite side and completely whiff against Dante) and he gets a free punish. Most people are just sloppy and time it strictly for the unblockable. The only true escape is an invincible reversal(and even then, only a THC/Lariat are reliable).
racketpunch
Member
The blame of sloppiness goes all around. I mean you would think a Morrigan main would have a legitimate fix to her infinite yet the Shell Kick nerf was put in without much thought being put in it and then had to be removed because it was bogus. The changelog is a fluid process, its better to get it right and have as much discussion on it as possible. Yea we should not be so hasty on our votes but I will make it clear right now that if even one thing on a changelist is debated then the entire thing has to be reevaluated. That is because one thing might relate to another thing on the list.
The Dante set up is 100% an inescapable unblockable based on what your criteria is. It cannot be raw tagged and its nearly impossible to CC it unlike the other unblockables we have been debating. Same thing will apply to Jill, it would be an inescapable soft unblockable reset.
Now as far as Morrigan goes, I still remain unconvinced that she is in need of a change. With so many new assists in the game its hard to say if she will or will not have another great assist to work with. The functionality of Missiles and Morrigan is still there so as long as thats there she still has one optimum assist to play around with. Wolverine Berserker Slash got a big nerf and Tastsu got two huge nerfs... that combination is still very good and you would have to be very short sighted to think that MorriDoom still won't be strong.
Now as far as linear approach option go... its an exaggeration to say she has the most linear approach. Someone like Haggar has a linear approach or Nemesis. Morrigan being able to cover her approach with a fireball is an excellent tool that many characters don't have so I remain unconvinced on her need of an aerial command throw based on linear approach.
Same goes for her need to be able to open up characters jumping around. The only characters who absolutely need to open up chicken blockers are pure rushdown characters like Iron Fist. Morrigan does not need to open you up to win the game, she can pressure chicken blockers with fireballs where as a grappler or a rushdown character has no other choice. If Morrigan did not have an oppressive fireball game I might consider this suggestion but as it stands you might as well give Arthur an aerial command grab or even Ghost Rider. It makes no sense for her to have it, its like giving Haggar an air dash.
I see no precedence or urgency for this change and remain unconvinced.
The Dante set up is 100% an inescapable unblockable based on what your criteria is. It cannot be raw tagged and its nearly impossible to CC it unlike the other unblockables we have been debating. Same thing will apply to Jill, it would be an inescapable soft unblockable reset.
Now as far as Morrigan goes, I still remain unconvinced that she is in need of a change. With so many new assists in the game its hard to say if she will or will not have another great assist to work with. The functionality of Missiles and Morrigan is still there so as long as thats there she still has one optimum assist to play around with. Wolverine Berserker Slash got a big nerf and Tastsu got two huge nerfs... that combination is still very good and you would have to be very short sighted to think that MorriDoom still won't be strong.
Now as far as linear approach option go... its an exaggeration to say she has the most linear approach. Someone like Haggar has a linear approach or Nemesis. Morrigan being able to cover her approach with a fireball is an excellent tool that many characters don't have so I remain unconvinced on her need of an aerial command throw based on linear approach.
Same goes for her need to be able to open up characters jumping around. The only characters who absolutely need to open up chicken blockers are pure rushdown characters like Iron Fist. Morrigan does not need to open you up to win the game, she can pressure chicken blockers with fireballs where as a grappler or a rushdown character has no other choice. If Morrigan did not have an oppressive fireball game I might consider this suggestion but as it stands you might as well give Arthur an aerial command grab or even Ghost Rider. It makes no sense for her to have it, its like giving Haggar an air dash.
I see no precedence or urgency for this change and remain unconvinced.
Zero is one of the dumbest anchors in the game, but he somehow manages to be even dumber on point so you never actually want to put him there.
I honestly expected that video to be just a bunch of solo lightning loops that take forever to kill in XF3, but some those mixups were worth it. I burst out laughing at how absurd some of them were.
Ok WTF @ that Zero video.
I stopped watching when Zero owned all the top anchors in the game.
Zero is not only the best character in the game but now he has cemented his status as best anchor as well.
I am laughing at how absurd all this tech is and how we will never see it because no one will ever play him at that position. As absurd as that anchor display was he is still better as a point.
I stopped watching when Zero owned all the top anchors in the game.
Zero is not only the best character in the game but now he has cemented his status as best anchor as well.
I am laughing at how absurd all this tech is and how we will never see it because no one will ever play him at that position. As absurd as that anchor display was he is still better as a point.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Damn....this page got salty.
Morrigan brings the rage.
Hmm maybe I'll start playing Zero at anchor. It would at least be something different
Morrigan brings the rage.
Hmm maybe I'll start playing Zero at anchor. It would at least be something different
shaowebb
Member
Man, Zero wasn't even this broke in TvC. Baroque > X-factor for soooooooo many reasons.
God damn at that chip. He chipped out Strider in no time.
So much for thinking zero wasn't a good anchor.
Lol nooooo, I just don't like the fact that y'all are taking everything good Zero has away from him. I don't believe Zero should tod off of one touch, that's something you should aim to fix, another is make Raikousen not go through the opponent because that's what everyone seems to be free to, even though I can just sit here and tell you to learn to block it like a cross up footdive. His buster doesn't need changing whatsoever, I am giving away a whole button to charge that shit, it should stay the same. He should keep his double lightning but the soft knockdown is a little much ill give you that, so get rid of that (like you did) and that solves the 1 touch tod from the air problem.
Zero:
*Hit stop on multi-hit moves reduced for improved combo flow.
-Soft knockdown on Raikousen removed; minimum hitstun remains high; Lightning Loops still possible. (Fine with me, I wouldn't mind giving up LL's for something else though)
-Minimum scaling on specials and normals reduced to 15% (Fine with this)
-Raikousen canceled by Buster no longer creates a Raikousen hitbox. (Not needed since you got rid of soft knockdown, this is just pushing it, I say get rid of it going through the opponent)
-Level 3 buster startup increased to 10, hits 9 times; projectile is now 9x1 durability. (No need to change buster whatsoever, it's a charge move, I'm sacrificing a normal for buster, it deserves what it has)
-Health reduced to 800,000. (Do we really need to take away 30K? Lmfao)
Morrigan is a top 10 character and she's great even without missiles, you seem to believe she's not a great character and that she's only viable with Missiles, which is false. Tbh, you can do whatever you want to Morrigan, but to buff the shit out of her and destroy Zero? It doesn't make any sense. Why destroy Zero and make a new one? Work on fixing the "broken" issues and help out lower tier characters, not completely destroy the top.
Raikousen persisting after Buster IS a broken issue and that's why its being fixed.
Zero is not "destroyed" with these changes, he would still be a top 10 character. He would still have absurd mix ups, pressure, normals and ridiculous Sogenmu. Right now Zero is the best character in the game and he's the best character by a margin.
I personally think in the new patch something like Morrigan/Storm (Typhoon) /Doom would still be a great team as would Morrigan/Doom/Vergil. I mean yea Morrigan/Doom/Vergil is not going to be TIPPITY TOP bull shit tier anymore but still extremely solid and that's the point of the patch. Not to mention that Morrigan will still be used on Phoenix teams just like she is used on them now.
Zero is not "destroyed" with these changes, he would still be a top 10 character. He would still have absurd mix ups, pressure, normals and ridiculous Sogenmu. Right now Zero is the best character in the game and he's the best character by a margin.
I personally think in the new patch something like Morrigan/Storm (Typhoon) /Doom would still be a great team as would Morrigan/Doom/Vergil. I mean yea Morrigan/Doom/Vergil is not going to be TIPPITY TOP bull shit tier anymore but still extremely solid and that's the point of the patch. Not to mention that Morrigan will still be used on Phoenix teams just like she is used on them now.
But that's a pressure tool he has and the only reason it's broken is because of soft knockdown. The only real change I don't want is the change to buster, that shouldn't be touched at all. This can be argued all day so ill just end it here cause it comes down to opinion. I just finally wanted to put my thoughts out since I didn't before. No hard feelings homies.
Ya I agree that MorriDoom/Vergil won't be as bad but them Morrigan buffs... Morrigan is the new god of Marvel.
It's not a pressure tool... it's a full screen zoning, hit confirm and mix up tool. It's ridiculous is what it is. He didn't have that shit in Vanilla and he was still top tier. He didn't even have Buster cancel in Vanilla or Lightning cross ups in the corner and he was still top tier... that just shows you how good this character is.
I use it as a pressure tool especially when I get people locked in a corner, and it's ridiculous cause of soft knockdown!!!
I dunno why capcom gave him that shit, maybe because that's the way they intended him to be played? :>
But at the end of the day, Spiral Swords controls everything.
It was obviously an unintended feature and consequence of Buster cancel. Shit looks like a glitch too, like Zero shooting Lightning out of his anus and it going full screen.
What you are talking about is using that move to lock someone in the corner on incoming and run a mix up... which is why I referred to it as a mix up tool.
I mean I guess we should keep Vergil's Round Trip pressure because if Capcom put it in that's probably how they intended the character to be played (chip you out for your whole health from just pressure).
What you are talking about is using that move to lock someone in the corner on incoming and run a mix up... which is why I referred to it as a mix up tool.
I mean I guess we should keep Vergil's Round Trip pressure because if Capcom put it in that's probably how they intended the character to be played (chip you out for your whole health from just pressure).
LMAO at the anus shit.
Maybe the lightning should stop where you cancel it out with buster? So it doesn't go full screen even though Zero doesn't.
Obvious joke about the intended play style lol.
What you mean round trip pressure, the glitch? That's a legit glitch since he's not the only one who can do that (Viper). Vergils pressure game is comparable to Zeros easily.
Am I the only one who's okay with Vergil and Dante keeping their invincibility frames when activating DT?
Thinkin' I'm gonna pick up a Vita and the Vita version of this game, but I have some questions on this one:
-If I'm playing on my Vita, does it match me against people on PS3s, or only Vita?
-Does the Vita version come w/crossbuy?
-Is the Vita version noticeably different from the PS3 version?
-If I own the PS3 version and have DLC for that, can I add that DLC to my Vita? Like if I have Jill on the PS3 can I have her on the PSV?
-If I'm playing on my Vita, does it match me against people on PS3s, or only Vita?
-Does the Vita version come w/crossbuy?
-Is the Vita version noticeably different from the PS3 version?
-If I own the PS3 version and have DLC for that, can I add that DLC to my Vita? Like if I have Jill on the PS3 can I have her on the PSV?
-Only Vita
-No crossbuy (I think)
-You get gold herald colors and you get a replay match function where you can see hitboxes (I think that's about it for differences)
-Pretty sure you'll have to buy DLC for both, they don't transfer.
Anyone know about MayFlash Universal Adapter? Heard it was good, gonna pick it up and pick up marvel on ps3 so I can finally play you PS3ers! How much is marvel on PSN? 20?
I'd be fine with it.
You're going to have to buy a physical copy.
IIRC they never released a digital download for UMVC3 on PSN.
Also RE: Imaginary balance patch:
-OTG soul fists on Morrigan is uneccessary.
I understand wanting to let every character get a full combo off air throw, but her soul fist chip game is soo good that allowing her to get full combos off air throws too would be too much IMO.
Hell, with OTG souls fists and astral vision, she could probably convert off an air throw into soul fist juggles with the right assist...
Ex: Airthrow Throw -> Call Ammy Cold Star + OTG soul fist -> soul fist juggles.
It seems too good!
I thought about Lightning stopping where you cancel Buster but I don't think that would fix it and in result would just lead to more ambiguous mix ups.
Vergil's pressure game is only comparable to Zero's if he has Round Trip Glitch AND LVL1 Spiral Swords... we took both of those away now his pressure game is mediocre.
Invincibility on utility hypers leads to wonky shit like being able to dodge Gimlet on reaction or avoiding stuff for a punish. They don't need it, it's superfluous for them to even have it.
I would be OK with removing OTG Soul Fist and keep aerial command grab. I mean Karst's argument always revolves around "well no character is like Morrigan so she should be treated as such" and this comes in line with that. She would be a zoner with an air command grab (only character to have this in the game) but she would also be the only character to not solo OTG after her throws. Having both makes her a better grappler than fucking Thor because not even Thor gets full combos from his air throw even in this patch. Besides I was the one who even suggested the change.