Professor Beef
Banned
not really
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
not really
Not the crystal, but the jam that goes upwards. He used it in a middle of an air combo which allowed him to combo into his air hyper (as my character was locked in place). That was usually the end of it. And if it did not kill my char, Dr. Strange's Hyper followed, immediately followed by a DT Dante who teleported above me (while still being hit by the hyper) for a knockdown and a continuation of the combo! Insane.
Yep, that is a nightmare fuel, indeed!
Karsticles
Member
Well Zissou confirmed it. And there are no guaranteed meterless midscreen unblockables.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Dante grapple resets on certain characters?
MiniBossBattle
Member
Paradigm's Arthur/RR/Haggar is so much fun to watch. Gold up Arthur, Firebomb/Lance, Tag Haggar to make Haggar/RR/Arthur order. Good horizontal dagger assist, Log Trap for air assist/air crossups.
His real team is even scarier Haggar/Dorm/Doom.
His real team is even scarier Haggar/Dorm/Doom.
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84706153]Dante grapple resets on certain characters?[/QUOTE]
Oh right! Though I have never seen a hard tag not beat the setup, so I am curious for video proof.
Oh right! Though I have never seen a hard tag not beat the setup, so I am curious for video proof.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Dante grapple reset on anchor characters?
Poltergust
Member
I would like to say the I heavily disagree with Wright being the worst character. Even without Turnabout Mode, I would still classify him above the likes of Hsien-Ko or Tron due to his Trial Mode abilities.
I really need to post here more...
Trons not that bad though. Big combos, can confirm off of large spaces, has an actual mix up game, big normals, has an air dash, interesting THC/DHC options, synergy with Frank West. When she is assisted you can't sleep on her because even a throw can lead into a dead character or a leveled up Frank.
There's a lot of variables to take into account for Dante's grapple unblockable. If Dante has his back close to a corner, a raw tag is more likely to work on him than if he's closer to the corner from the front. There are even more variables to take into account, as some characters raw tag hitboxes are bigger, so they're more likely to hit from larger distances. Ultimately, for the person about to be unblockabled, the best bet is to just raw tag the setup and hope the Dante screws up.
However, if everything was timed right, Dante will always land before the raw tag can hit him, so he can hitconfirm whether or not he landed the unblockable(just watch for the hitspark on the character, and he ends up having a pretty large window to confirm it with a light) or if they raw tagged(they'll always hit the assist before Dante, so if you're looking for it, you have a window to react to it) and he can block and punish. Some character's raw tags aren't big enough to hit Dante even if he does something, and he gets a free hitconfirm/punish on them regardless. Plus you have to take what low hitting assist you're using, which will change the timing, the setup, the punishability, etc.
It's not something that's going to be 100% guaranteed in the real world just because there's a ton of variables that it's a pain to keep track of them all for a person, but theoretically it's guaranteed outside of invincible reversals. It's probably not something that warrants removing, but it's just one of those things that I suppose is up to personal opinion.
Plus because crossover counters were buffed in this patch to allow for actions after the CC this means that there is in fact no 100% guaranteed unblockable with a pinning assist if you have a bar. It's obviously not the best solution to the problem but it does make having good CCs actually valuable.
So can IF and IF comes packing with a very good assist that you don't need to buff up like Hsien Ko's.
I dunno, he can cover the ground fast, but he's got nothing in the air, and even if he gets in, he doesn't have fast enough lows. Plus, isn't it really hard to get good damage if you can't hit your opponent standing or crouching (or use Spencer assist)?
(Note: I could be a wrong scrub.)
He's got nothing in the air but neither does PW as the base character (although he has superior zoning and his Objection has a huge hit box).
Iron First does have big damage with the right assists though. If he gets someone low to the ground he can convert into big damage but SJ height he's got nothing... in that regard even Tron has him beat.
Iron First does have big damage with the right assists though. If he gets someone low to the ground he can convert into big damage but SJ height he's got nothing... in that regard even Tron has him beat.
Poltergust
Member
I'm of the opinion that Wright's zoning by itself is enough to put him above Iron Fist. Because he doesn't have to directly engage his opponent to do damage to them, it gives him an edge (even if it's just slight) over anyone that is forced to approach him (bar a few characters who have multiple approach options). This allows him to deal with higher-tiered match-ups better than someone like Iron Fist, who can't do anything against hardcore zoning and keepaway.
For example, Wright can force characters like Trish to approach if he has the right pieces of evidence (mostly Cell Phone, though). Trish may be swift, but her approach strategy is fairly predictable and Wright has good tools to deal with it.
With Iron Fist or Hsien-Ko, on the other hand, the Trish match-up is extremely difficult since they are forced to approach her, and they simply do not have the capability to deal with her runaway.
Of course, when Wright cannot set up his zoning game and/or gets outzoned, he loses really, really badly since he cannot approach worth anything when outside of Turnabout Mode.
(Oh, and Wright has more options in the air than Iron Fist by default because he actually has a useful air-throw.)
I think if your character's strength hinges on what type of pieces he gets randomly to gain an edge in match ups that is a problem. That is not a reliable factor in the game that you can control and hence a problem with the character. Iron Fist can at least get Vajra to help with the super jumpers and confirm off of a Vajra hit for good damage or he can save up 2 meter for Volcanic Roar into SoV hail mary punish.
Poltergust
Member
I don't see how the bolded is much different from what Wright can do after a DHC into, well, any super that can hit that high up.
Well, I used Trish as an example because she's really bad at preventing Wright from gaining evidence, which would give him more opportunities to gather the coveted Cell Phone.
In any case, I believe the potential to deal with a character is better than not being able to deal with a character period. The fact that Iron Fist needs an assist to help with super-jumpers speaks volumes about how crippled he is at dealing with runaway as opposed to Wright, who doesn't particularly need an assist to help in that regard (although something like Hidden Missiles/Jam Session obviously does help quite a bit).
Well for one Volcanic Roar is a super jump height hyper itself that does good damage. It's almost like a vertical Chaotic Flame.
And secondly IF can self combo after a Vajra a hard knockdown which is why he is a good candidate for that assist and some other characters aren't. Coupled with his extremely fast ground dash if someone super jumps he can just get under them, call Vajra and dash around them for a 50/50, then pick up OTG from the hit.
And secondly IF can self combo after a Vajra a hard knockdown which is why he is a good candidate for that assist and some other characters aren't. Coupled with his extremely fast ground dash if someone super jumps he can just get under them, call Vajra and dash around them for a 50/50, then pick up OTG from the hit.
Poltergust
Member
Oh, right. For whatever reason, I thought it was the "Fist of Fury" hyper. That one is called... Iron Rage, I think...?
Actually... I wonder if Wright can do the same with Maya M (outside of the corner, of course, where he obviously can). I do know that he actually can follow-up from it solo with a full combo, but it's position dependent.
I guess I'll test this when I (eventually) get home.
Iron Rage I think is the name... that one is semi useful because it has some invincibility and it leads into a full combo. It's like a poor man's Bionic Arm... doesn't travel as far as quickly. It's mostly used to DHC Iron Fist out or as a combo extender.
We should have a list of characters who get full combos from Vajra (or close to it).
We should have a list of characters who get full combos from Vajra (or close to it).
C. Viper – We haven't removed her s.S(first hit) > TK Cancel > s.S(first hit) > repeat infinite, have we? Right now, the first hit of s.S causes a set amount of hitstun(to accommodate for the second hit) as it is, so all that really needs to be done is allow for HSD to kick in(while also making sure it scales to a minimum level where the second hit of s.S will always connect). Easy.
Morrigan – I'd have preferred the OTG Soul Fists, since it'd give her a conversion off an airthrow(which would lead to a bar or more), and give her something off her ground command throw. Aerial command grab that leads to nothing but a free Astral Vision activation/Shadow Servant is vastly inferior, since even if airthrows are techable, you can end up punishing air throw techs with premptive jumping normals(of which her four frame j.L is pretty damn good at doing that), and if they jump you can cancel into Soul Fist or Shadow Blade to buy space or just get out of there and recover. With an aerial command grab, if they didn't jump, and you whiff it, you have to fly cancel which can easily be thrown, j.L'd, or anti-aired. If that's what Karst wants, though, then fine. Yes.
Rocket Raccoon – Still don't agree with 15 frame Bear Trap. It's originally 27 frames, and that's a twelve frame jump. Making it 15 frame startup is a huge jump in frame differences. I'd be fine with a 20 frame startup, but 15 is pushing it imo.
Also, did anyone ever suggest making s.H a low? It shoots at the opponent's feet, and it'd make it a slightly better poke.
Ryu – Yes
Sentinel – Yes
Spencer – Still trying to think of a good infinite removal without messing with combos/confirms. I can't find a video where the infinite is repeated enough times for me to get a good grasp of it, really, and I have had no success with performing it myself. If anyone can find a good video, that'd be pretty helpful.
Spider-Man - “Hitstun decay now continues to accumulate during Web Throw’s catch animation.” I understand why this is done, but I don't like it. Web Throw takes a long time to complete, and I'm worried that it'll completely kill his overall combo potential. The Web Throw 'infinite' is just a loop, not a true infinite.
Also, if we're removing the ability to block during Web Glide, I propose these additional buffs:
+ Spider-Man can use Web Glide three times in the air.
+ Grounded Web Glide does not use up aerial Web Glide uses.
+ Startup of Web Glide is cancelable into Web Glide(to give him a slightly more tricky approach where he can change trajectory before he actually starts moving).
I considered startup of Web Glide being special cancelable, but then I remember he can cancel specials into Web Glide, so there'd be a lot of Web Balls flying around everywhere at once.
And, lastly, opinion on this?
Storm – Yes
Thor – Yes
Trish - "Hopscotch" having faster travel time and more hitstun is, once again, unnecessary. It would be a nice thing to have, most definitely, but it's not something Trish needs. The same thing with Low Voltage getting wider hitboxes and more durability. It's not needed.
Vergil – After a lot of thought and discussion, I vote Yes.
Wolverine – Still see no reason as to why Swiss Cheese should be -3 on block. In a lot of cases, you can pushblock and punish it. It's no where near as good as Chun-Li's lightning legs, so I feel there isn't any reason to nerf it.
Zero – I still disagree with the Buster startup change. The durability change is fine, but I do not agree with the startup. It will affect combos in the long run. It won't change most of the early combos, but later in the combo it will. He will only able to get two solo OTGs before he needs to start OTG'ing with assists, and that messes with his over all combo potential since it means he won't be getting an assist extension, but rather his assist extension is to just OTG. I know Zero has long combos, but we've already nerfed his damage output, nerfing his combo potential is a double whammy when it comes to his overall damage.
I'll vote on Felicia and Firebrand later. Need to comb over them a bit more thoroughly.
Morrigan – I'd have preferred the OTG Soul Fists, since it'd give her a conversion off an airthrow(which would lead to a bar or more), and give her something off her ground command throw. Aerial command grab that leads to nothing but a free Astral Vision activation/Shadow Servant is vastly inferior, since even if airthrows are techable, you can end up punishing air throw techs with premptive jumping normals(of which her four frame j.L is pretty damn good at doing that), and if they jump you can cancel into Soul Fist or Shadow Blade to buy space or just get out of there and recover. With an aerial command grab, if they didn't jump, and you whiff it, you have to fly cancel which can easily be thrown, j.L'd, or anti-aired. If that's what Karst wants, though, then fine. Yes.
Rocket Raccoon – Still don't agree with 15 frame Bear Trap. It's originally 27 frames, and that's a twelve frame jump. Making it 15 frame startup is a huge jump in frame differences. I'd be fine with a 20 frame startup, but 15 is pushing it imo.
Also, did anyone ever suggest making s.H a low? It shoots at the opponent's feet, and it'd make it a slightly better poke.
Ryu – Yes
Sentinel – Yes
Spencer – Still trying to think of a good infinite removal without messing with combos/confirms. I can't find a video where the infinite is repeated enough times for me to get a good grasp of it, really, and I have had no success with performing it myself. If anyone can find a good video, that'd be pretty helpful.
Spider-Man - “Hitstun decay now continues to accumulate during Web Throw’s catch animation.” I understand why this is done, but I don't like it. Web Throw takes a long time to complete, and I'm worried that it'll completely kill his overall combo potential. The Web Throw 'infinite' is just a loop, not a true infinite.
Also, if we're removing the ability to block during Web Glide, I propose these additional buffs:
+ Spider-Man can use Web Glide three times in the air.
+ Grounded Web Glide does not use up aerial Web Glide uses.
+ Startup of Web Glide is cancelable into Web Glide(to give him a slightly more tricky approach where he can change trajectory before he actually starts moving).
I considered startup of Web Glide being special cancelable, but then I remember he can cancel specials into Web Glide, so there'd be a lot of Web Balls flying around everywhere at once.
And, lastly, opinion on this?
Storm – Yes
Thor – Yes
Trish - "Hopscotch" having faster travel time and more hitstun is, once again, unnecessary. It would be a nice thing to have, most definitely, but it's not something Trish needs. The same thing with Low Voltage getting wider hitboxes and more durability. It's not needed.
Vergil – After a lot of thought and discussion, I vote Yes.
Wolverine – Still see no reason as to why Swiss Cheese should be -3 on block. In a lot of cases, you can pushblock and punish it. It's no where near as good as Chun-Li's lightning legs, so I feel there isn't any reason to nerf it.
Zero – I still disagree with the Buster startup change. The durability change is fine, but I do not agree with the startup. It will affect combos in the long run. It won't change most of the early combos, but later in the combo it will. He will only able to get two solo OTGs before he needs to start OTG'ing with assists, and that messes with his over all combo potential since it means he won't be getting an assist extension, but rather his assist extension is to just OTG. I know Zero has long combos, but we've already nerfed his damage output, nerfing his combo potential is a double whammy when it comes to his overall damage.
I'll vote on Felicia and Firebrand later. Need to comb over them a bit more thoroughly.
I like those new Spider Man changes.
What is your proposed change for nerfing the Web Throw loop? Because that allows him to get 900K+ solo meterless damage... something that no character is able to do in this patch.
On that UWT glitch it seems it's using the same glitch as the 1 frame throw tech guard break so that should already be fixed in the system mechanics.
Yeah that Viper infinite has to be removed obviously... it's just that most people didn't know the mechanics behind it.
Swiss Cheese is + on block right now and push blocking doesn't guarantee a punish for some of the cast. You should at least be able to throw it at close range if he messed it up. If it's a move meant to be put in the game to punish mashers then it's not doing a good enough job at it!
I am fine with RR trap being 20 frames. Also I am warming up to the idea of replacing Boulder Trap high with the ability for it to work like Hopscotch (active at a higher height so it works like a "wall" against super jumpers).
What is your proposed change for nerfing the Web Throw loop? Because that allows him to get 900K+ solo meterless damage... something that no character is able to do in this patch.
On that UWT glitch it seems it's using the same glitch as the 1 frame throw tech guard break so that should already be fixed in the system mechanics.
Yeah that Viper infinite has to be removed obviously... it's just that most people didn't know the mechanics behind it.
Swiss Cheese is + on block right now and push blocking doesn't guarantee a punish for some of the cast. You should at least be able to throw it at close range if he messed it up. If it's a move meant to be put in the game to punish mashers then it's not doing a good enough job at it!
I am fine with RR trap being 20 frames. Also I am warming up to the idea of replacing Boulder Trap high with the ability for it to work like Hopscotch (active at a higher height so it works like a "wall" against super jumpers).
830k off a clean grounded hit, which is something that's fairly rare when it comes to Spider-Man. I just don't know how practical it is(not from an execution stand point, but rather a 'can I confirm into this from any hit anywhere on the screen against any character?' sort of practical).
However, if I were to fix the loop while trying to mess with as little stuff as possible, I'd either accelerate the HSD on cr.M(the only reason he's comboing is because cr.M starts up in 5 frames and has a decent amount of hitstun on it, and since it's a M attack, it doesn't decay as quickly as a L attack. cr.M also isn't really used in Spidey's average combos, so it won't affect much), or add five frames or so of recovery after a successful Web Throw. It wouldn't mess with any of his current combos/confirms, but it should make it impossible to dash up and combo into cr.M. I'd probably go with the former.
Yeah, all you gotta do is add HSD to the first hit of s.S and it should remove it without hindering much of anything else. You could also decrease the amount of hitstun the first hit of s.S has overall, and that should also take care of it.
I'd be fine with that. Although, I wonder how it'd affect the boulder trap loop.
Karsticles
Member
We should add this in - if Zissou supports it, I'll add it in.
OTG Soul Fist is better, but I don't think it looks right for the character. On the other hand, I always thought her command grab should work in the air, and it covers an aspect of her game that she has trouble with (chicken blockers). I would rather fill a gap in her play than give her better throw conversions. Morrigan players tend to be happy to get a safe Astral Vision off of a throw anyway.
We are going to let OTG assists hit after her throws now.
We're removing his unblockable - he needs a lot.
How about we just leave it to Capcom?
It makes his combos absurdly long and boring. Combat flow is important.
I support all of this except for the third one; wouldn't this let Spider-man create blockstrings at full screen without actually moving?
Fixed by the guard break fix.
I really disagree about Hopscotch. It's way too easy for characters to air dash or jump over it without getting hit. It needs more speed.
We can negotiate Low Voltage buffs - why do you think it doesn't need a wider hitbox?
2 solo OTGs is fine. Most characters would die to have 1, and Zero has extensions that don't rely on the OTGs.
The buster startup change is important because his command dash, buster canceled, is far too strong.
If characters couldn't air dash or jump over it then it would be too good. Think about that for a second... some characters would never be able to get in on Trish if that thing was faster.
Trish is already pretty damn good.. with choice buffs to her zoning, damage and throw game she becomes as good as Magneto.
Anyway I am just going to brainstorm some RR buffs that would help him:
*Of course the already mentioned Angel Gift buff of it triggering like Hop Scotch. I don't think ground bounce is necessary though, he can confirm off that fine.
*Damage of Spitfire increased from 40K to 60K. It's one of the weakest standard projectiles in the game in terms of damage and this would make his zoning actually threatening.
*Maybe reduce start up on Rocket Skates just a bit to improve his mobility. It always seemed to me like his Rocket Skates were supposed to be used like air dashes but in practical application they rarely are used as such.
*Cr.H hitting low would be nice.
So his final changelog would look like this:
Rocket Raccoon:
+Bear Trap startup reduced to 20 frames.
+Mad Hopper now lasts 1200 frames.
+Rocket Raccoon’s aerial and ground series are now more reliable; cr.H now hits low
+Oil Bomb fire is refreshed when a new Oil Bomb is thrown on it; Oil Bomb now set on fire by any projectile.
+j.S hitstun increased significantly.
+Rocket Skate now cancelable into j.S; slightly reduced start up
+Spitfire projectile durability changed to 4 per shot; damage increased to 60K per shot; Spitfire (air) can be canceled into Rocket Skates.
+Grab Bag startup reduced to 20 frames; damage decay from resulting combos decreased.
+General trap duration increased to 300 frames.
+/- Angel Gift ( aka Boulder trap) no longer hits high; trap can now be activated against airborne opponents to work as an anti air trap
Assists: Double Spitfire M, Pendulum, Oil Bomb
Sure, but I'll still think about it. I'd rather come up with a solution that satisfies everything without just 'leaving it up to Capcom'(since they could fuck it up).
No, because Spider-Man's web zips are angled diagonally. From full screen, his web goes over everyone but the tallest characters, and they can still duck it. Plus, it takes a fairly long time before it reaches full screen, so even if he could put a character in blockstun, characters would be able to just avoid the second one since it would take too long to reach.
Hopscotch isn't about hitting characters, it's about forcing characters to move around it. If they're air dashing or jumping over it, that gives Trish free reign to move where she wants to move. If you make it so it catches airdashes and jumps, that basically means Hopscotch is a free wall of 'fuck you' that no one can pass for a brief moment... and then she just puts up another one. She's already one of the best anti-rushdown characters in the game, she doesn't need to be even better.
Because as it is, Low Voltage M/H is just a tiny sliver of a hitbox away from hitting people at the peak of a jump. If they do anything in the air, they get hit. Basically, it'd make characters who already have trouble with Trish have even more trouble. They'd have to super jump to get over, and then she'd just dash under and start it all again. Plus, Low Voltage with teleporters is pretty underrated and it'd be completely unavoidable if you didn't super jump.
But a lot of his extensions rely on Buster still, and other extensions rely on his lightning which has been nerfed. There's just no real way to tell how the 10 frame Buster would effect him, and I'd rather err on the side of caution.
We could just remove that. It's not like Zero is strapped for mixups, and command dash > Buster doesn't get used much outside that.
Command dash xx Buster being removed completely would be a huge nerf. Zero by default doesn't actually have a high low mix up (unless you count command dash down into low an actual mix up which it really isn't). He is mostly a right/left mix up character and most of his mix up is really only potent in the corner and when he has Buster charged... that's the key element here, when he has Buster charged which means a good portion of his mix ups aren't available to him without that charge.
We nerfed his damage substantially so he has to rely on his mix ups now. No need to further nerf his mix ups. The start up nerf is debatable but removing the command dash mix up is extreme.
We nerfed his damage substantially so he has to rely on his mix ups now. No need to further nerf his mix ups. The start up nerf is debatable but removing the command dash mix up is extreme.
Zero can fuzzy people with j.L, and has Sogenmu unblockables with pinning assists. He's pretty well off when it comes to high/lows compared to some. Plus, he still retains command dash + assist. Command dash + Buster is just an easy mode mixup. 10 frame Buster affects his neutral game(be it his threatening rushdown, punishing things, zoning, etc) far more than the loss of command dash + Buster affects his overall mixup game(where assist + command dash is the same as command dash + Buster and can lead to more mixups after).
shaowebb
Member
That'd be Arthur dagger assist. Just leave Arthur at Anchor.
Taskmaster/Iron Fist/Arthur
I still say its the best team for him. Tasky has augmented zoning and his corner carry locks them in position to get in Iron Fist with none of the chip damage he usually struggles against on point vs 3 dudes. After that you get your pressure on and if they escape the daggers let you wave dash inside of them through anything. If you some how manage a gold armor Arthur assist it gets better.
MODOK also worked on point for this team. I never really got around to testing Zero on it like I intended though. I really wanted to try sougenmu zoning with rising fang assist and daggers at some point.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Slasher I'm stealing your team.
What color do you use for Wesker with your Blue team, purple?
Oh and what's the combo I should do in turnabout mode.
What color do you use for Wesker with your Blue team, purple?
Oh and what's the combo I should do in turnabout mode.
No man hold your horses. Trust me when its done there will be a big announcement for it.
Professor Beef
Banned
"HEADLINES: IMAGINARY PATCH IS FINISHED"
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
Really? There goes my uniqueness. I usually use default colors, but purple Wesker would be closest for blue color scheme. The bright red color scheme looks fucking badass though.
As for Wright Turnabout mode combo's it all depends if you used your wallbounce or groundbounce. Usually in TB your spamming H's so you use one of them up, but if you don't you can do some nice combo's.
Here's an excellent PW tutorial (and entertaining) and good TB combo's starting at 14:53.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPmf1GHHOoU&list=FL2HpyqDVN83i2IZ5n0DvdMA&index=10
Karsticles
Member
How is this Trish:
Trish:
+Trick “Hopscotch” hitstun increased; now OTGs.
+Flight startup reduced to 15 frames.
+High Voltage creates a small vacuum effect to ensure more hits connect.
+Duet Pain now hits OTG.
+Low Voltage recovery reduced to 30 across the board; durability increased to 4 on each bolt.
+Sign Switch H now causes Sparda to home in on the opponent.
+Round Trip durability increased to 8; no longer loses its hitbox after encountering any opposing projectile.
+Untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
+Trick “Peekaboo” causes a set amount of hitstun (60 frames); decreases by 10 frames for every use in a combo.
Assists: Low Voltage H, Trick “Peekaboo”, Trick “Hopscotch”
And this RR:
Rocket Raccoon:
*Angel Gift no longer hits high; now produces a red laser that reaches up to full screen height which causes the trap to trigger off of aerial opponents as well as grounded ones.
+Bear Trap startup reduced to 20 frames.
+Mad Hopper now lasts 1200 frames.
+Rocket Raccoon’s aerial and ground series are now more reliable; c.H now hits low, and c.M now hits overhead.
+Oil Bomb fire is refreshed when a new Oil Bomb is thrown on it; Oil Bomb now set on fire by any projectile.
+j.S hitstun and hitbox increased significantly.
+Rocket Skate now cancelable into j.S; Rocket Skate (all versions) startup reduced by 5.
+Spitfire projectile durability changed to 4 per shot; aerial version can be canceled into Rocket Skates; damage increased to 60,000 per shot.
+Grab Bag startup reduced to 20 frames; damage decay from resulting combos decreased.
+General trap duration increased to 300 frames.
Assists: Double Spitfire M, Pendulum, Oil Bomb
Now I feel like Angel Gift should be an assist.
And this Spidey:
Spider-man:
+Web Ball H (assist) is unaffected by hitstun deterioration.
+Spider Bite (assist) hits overhead and causes a ground bounce.
+Ultimate Web Throw hitbox changed to better match the animation; startup reduced to 15+3; now air OK; aerial version has a smaller hitbox than the grounded version.
+Untechable time after Maximum Spider increased slightly; now possible to OTG follow-up.
+Standing and crouching normals now pull opponents in more.
-Web Glide can no longer be block canceled; Spider-man can use Web Glide three times now before touching the ground; grounded Web Glide does not count against this maximum; Web Glide may be canceled into itself.
-Hitstun decay now continues to accumulate during Web Throw’s catch animation.
Assists: Web Ball H, Web Swing H, Spider Sting H x Spider Bite
+j.S hitbox increased significantly (he has no real space control near him, and he needs it)
+j.M now hits overhead (now he has a long range overhead and a long range low)
Trish:
+Trick “Hopscotch” hitstun increased; now OTGs.
+Flight startup reduced to 15 frames.
+High Voltage creates a small vacuum effect to ensure more hits connect.
+Duet Pain now hits OTG.
+Low Voltage recovery reduced to 30 across the board; durability increased to 4 on each bolt.
+Sign Switch H now causes Sparda to home in on the opponent.
+Round Trip durability increased to 8; no longer loses its hitbox after encountering any opposing projectile.
+Untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
+Trick “Peekaboo” causes a set amount of hitstun (60 frames); decreases by 10 frames for every use in a combo.
Assists: Low Voltage H, Trick “Peekaboo”, Trick “Hopscotch”
And this RR:
Rocket Raccoon:
*Angel Gift no longer hits high; now produces a red laser that reaches up to full screen height which causes the trap to trigger off of aerial opponents as well as grounded ones.
+Bear Trap startup reduced to 20 frames.
+Mad Hopper now lasts 1200 frames.
+Rocket Raccoon’s aerial and ground series are now more reliable; c.H now hits low, and c.M now hits overhead.
+Oil Bomb fire is refreshed when a new Oil Bomb is thrown on it; Oil Bomb now set on fire by any projectile.
+j.S hitstun and hitbox increased significantly.
+Rocket Skate now cancelable into j.S; Rocket Skate (all versions) startup reduced by 5.
+Spitfire projectile durability changed to 4 per shot; aerial version can be canceled into Rocket Skates; damage increased to 60,000 per shot.
+Grab Bag startup reduced to 20 frames; damage decay from resulting combos decreased.
+General trap duration increased to 300 frames.
Assists: Double Spitfire M, Pendulum, Oil Bomb
Now I feel like Angel Gift should be an assist.
And this Spidey:
Spider-man:
+Web Ball H (assist) is unaffected by hitstun deterioration.
+Spider Bite (assist) hits overhead and causes a ground bounce.
+Ultimate Web Throw hitbox changed to better match the animation; startup reduced to 15+3; now air OK; aerial version has a smaller hitbox than the grounded version.
+Untechable time after Maximum Spider increased slightly; now possible to OTG follow-up.
+Standing and crouching normals now pull opponents in more.
-Web Glide can no longer be block canceled; Spider-man can use Web Glide three times now before touching the ground; grounded Web Glide does not count against this maximum; Web Glide may be canceled into itself.
-Hitstun decay now continues to accumulate during Web Throw’s catch animation.
Assists: Web Ball H, Web Swing H, Spider Sting H x Spider Bite
Agreed.
Alright, I'll remove the change.
Let's add these in:
+j.S hitbox increased significantly (he has no real space control near him, and he needs it)
+j.M now hits overhead (now he has a long range overhead and a long range low)
Capcom is pretty good at fixing infinites. Remember the Captain America Vanilla infinite?
Well, I play a tall character who gets hit by the web all the time.
Fair enough.
What about Low Voltage L, though?
The lightning nerf is mostly about minimum hitstun. I'll clarify it in the patch notes.
This is far, far too much. Zero needs the mix-up, I just think it should be a little slower.
You have a typo in both those changes.
Where it says "cr.M should hit overhead" for RR it should say "j.M should hit overhead".
The Web Glide change should be a "+/-" or a "*".
These changes look really good only thing I would change is the one on the Web Throw loop, I agree with Frantic that particular nerf might be too much... should look into alternatives.
Otherwise I vote Y on the new Trish and RR changes (provided the typo is fixed). Need finalization on the Spider Man Web Loop change before voting.
Where it says "cr.M should hit overhead" for RR it should say "j.M should hit overhead".
The Web Glide change should be a "+/-" or a "*".
These changes look really good only thing I would change is the one on the Web Throw loop, I agree with Frantic that particular nerf might be too much... should look into alternatives.
Otherwise I vote Y on the new Trish and RR changes (provided the typo is fixed). Need finalization on the Spider Man Web Loop change before voting.
SolarKnight
Member
I DIDN'T ACTUALLY THINK IT'D HAPPEN BUT I REALLY DID END UP IN THE SAME POOL AS CHRIS G UNLESS SOMETHING FORCES THE BRACKET TO CHANGE DURING THE WEEK
I need a miracle
I need a miracle
Karsticles
Member
Yay for progress!
I also vote for removing Firebrand's unblockable entirely.
I made the changes in the master notes, but I left Spider-man un-updated in the patch list for the * since it's so minor. I will change it later. Votes updated.
I also vote for removing Firebrand's unblockable entirely.
The Web Throw loop is about how goddamn long and boring the combos are. It's terrible. Spider-man does solid damage without them. We've made plenty of changes for flow purposes, and this is one that needs to happen as well.
I made the changes in the master notes, but I left Spider-man un-updated in the patch list for the * since it's so minor. I will change it later. Votes updated.
youarealreadydead.jpg
I didn't say that the Web Loop shouldn't be nerfed, I am definitely with you that combo is too good. I am saying that the nerf suggested might be too big and would actually hurt his BnBs too. We should look at other ways to nerf it.
I like Frantic's suggestion of adding more HSD acceleration on cr.M. That would definitely cut down on the Web Loops without removing them completely.
Also Wolverine's Swiss Cheese/Berserker Rage change should be listed as a nerf ("-"). And one of the Viewtiful Joe changes is supposed to be either a "-" or a "*".
I think all the broad strokes on the characters are done now. Since we removed RR unblockable, might as well remove MODOK unblockable or nerf it (lower the active frames the puddle counts as a "low"). In addition, I am recommending that Dante receive a nerf on Grapple by giving it 3 frames of added recovery so that you are guaranteed to at least escape it with a hard tag. You Dante fans need to figure out which change you can live to part with.
Going to be going through all the characters now.
*We should probably make a statement in the "Other Changes" that an effort have been made to limit meterless and guaranteed unblockables in the game. Just so people don't freak out over the unblockable changes.
*Viper is the only character with a hard unblockable now and her is only available on the ground.
Morrigan: Should be labeled as "*"
Phoenix: This should specify what you are changing (startup/recovery/active etc).
Ryu: This should be 8 point durability. The reason is that this would be equivalent to the charged QCF+S fireball if it was 10 point durability which makes no sense.
This should be listed as +/- or "*" because it contains both a nerf and buffs.
I just remembered we didn't agree on the limitation on Storm's Float:
The bolded is a huge nerf because then she shouldn't be able to do Float -> Block -> Float.
I like Frantic's suggestion of adding more HSD acceleration on cr.M. That would definitely cut down on the Web Loops without removing them completely.
Also Wolverine's Swiss Cheese/Berserker Rage change should be listed as a nerf ("-"). And one of the Viewtiful Joe changes is supposed to be either a "-" or a "*".
I think all the broad strokes on the characters are done now. Since we removed RR unblockable, might as well remove MODOK unblockable or nerf it (lower the active frames the puddle counts as a "low"). In addition, I am recommending that Dante receive a nerf on Grapple by giving it 3 frames of added recovery so that you are guaranteed to at least escape it with a hard tag. You Dante fans need to figure out which change you can live to part with.
Going to be going through all the characters now.
*We should probably make a statement in the "Other Changes" that an effort have been made to limit meterless and guaranteed unblockables in the game. Just so people don't freak out over the unblockable changes.
*Viper is the only character with a hard unblockable now and her is only available on the ground.
Morrigan: Should be labeled as "*"
Phoenix: This should specify what you are changing (startup/recovery/active etc).
Ryu: This should be 8 point durability. The reason is that this would be equivalent to the charged QCF+S fireball if it was 10 point durability which makes no sense.
This should be listed as +/- or "*" because it contains both a nerf and buffs.
I just remembered we didn't agree on the limitation on Storm's Float:
The bolded is a huge nerf because then she shouldn't be able to do Float -> Block -> Float.
I thought we all agreed this was too much? What's the frame data on the uncharged version? This should be a 5 frame reduction at the most.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
Any PS3er's wanna play? PSN:SlasherMcGirk
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'll log on in 5. I think I have to update the system though.
Professor Beef
Banned
Whatever you do, do not talk to him.
Why is Phoenix getting a 19 frame start up overhead? I am assuming that is what the change is supposed to be listed because it was vague before (could've been recovery reduced to 19). A 19 frame start up overhead is fairly hard to block, that's as fast as Magneto tri dash at its fastest speed. This just seems like a buff for the sake of buff and not something she even needs to get buffed.
Need clarification on this because not really sure what the actual change is (didn't list whether it was start up or recovery). Again I am bringing this up because I am going through the whole list again in more detail.
Need clarification on this because not really sure what the actual change is (didn't list whether it was start up or recovery). Again I am bringing this up because I am going through the whole list again in more detail.
Just treat him like any other player. At least if you lose you can say you lost to the worlds best.
Pray to one of the other 4 gods.
- Tell everyone to invest in PS3s for the event IMMEDIATELY.
- Do NOT talk to the man. Ever.
- Play Chris/Dante
- Get some laggy monitors
- Ask Smedwicks for help
"God's Beard!"
Member
GGs Slasher!
Professor Beef
Banned
Make sure to pre-heat those monitors, too.