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[Dahbomb]

Yeah it's supposed to be made easier because right now it's very hard (or in some cases impossible) to convert off of air throws.

Crescent Heel has to ground bounce as an OTG otherwise it would results in crazy OTG loops. Crescent Heel doesn't cause a ground bounce on a standing opponent now though so that when its used as an overhead it acts like other overheads in the game.

 

[FSLink]

Yeah it's supposed to be made easier because right now it's very hard (or in some cases impossible) to convert off of air throws.

Crescent Heel has to ground bounce as an OTG otherwise it would results in crazy OTG loops. Crescent Heel doesn't cause a ground bounce on a standing opponent now though so that when its used as an overhead it acts like other overheads in the game.

It can already result in crazy OTG loops with assists. But that's different than without, yes. That change for just on standing opponents makes sense.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

I like what I'm seeing so far with these patch details.

 

[Karsticles]

Dahbomb, I made all of your suggested changes. Thank you for reading it all thoroughly.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Karst, why'd you drop Shuma? Doom/Dorm/Shuma might work out.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84049859]Karst, why'd you drop Shuma? Doom/Dorm/Shuma might work out.[/QUOTE]
Mostly because Shuma-Gorath is a piece of shit.

My big thing that I'm working on is a team that guarantees I get to use Dormammu, because he is by far my best character. That's the entire reason I have Sentinel on my team - Hard Drive guarantees I get to use Dormammu against the vast majority of the cast. I do think that is a good team, though I would anchor Dormammu on it. I like to put Dormammu last these days so I have as many opportunities to DHC him in as possible.

 

[Dahbomb]

Dr. Strange annotation; I thought about this more, and I would like to decrease Eye of Agamotto's duration a bit. Going from 120 frames to 300 frames is a pretty huge leap. How would everyone feel about toning it down to the 180-240 range?

Yeah I approve of this, we already buffed the move a lot as it is.

Another thing that I thought about while reading the annotations... Hsien Ko is looking kinda derp right now. Will tackle her again in the final run through but her ground game is looking kinda silly with dash cancelable normals off of what is essentially a teleport dash (which is now much faster). Obviously this stuff was sort of hard to imagine when it was just list but with explanations it seemed like overdoing it.

Anyway for now we need to wrap up the other characters. I vote Yes on the latest Morrigan change (with the "*" change).

 

[Karsticles]

Guys, go through here and make sure that all of your votes are up-to-date. If I messed up, let me know:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah4zxqcb0_eodHVySXhJc1pUVXhJM1JmcGxmWEdldlE#gid=0

Yeah I approve of this, we already buffed the move a lot as it is.

Another thing that I thought about while reading the annotations... Hsien Ko is looking kinda derp right now. Will tackle her again in the final run through but her ground game is looking kinda silly with dash cancelable normals off of what is essentially a teleport dash (which is now much faster). Obviously this stuff was sort of hard to imagine when it was just list but with explanations it seemed like overdoing it.

Anyway for now we need to wrap up the other characters. I vote Yes on the latest Morrigan change.

I updated your Morrigan vote.

What do you think for EoA duration? The big thing to keep in mind is that this also affects the EoA assist. I am thinking 180 frames is good.

I don't think Hsien-ko is looking derp. She will still be crazy high execution and really low damage. She does like 3-400K per combo without meter, and we're not doing anything to change that.

I agree that we will do one last glance-over before deciding everything is final. I think that after everything is solidified, we'll have a week of open topic, where anyone can bring up anything. Every member should go through and do a last comb-through to double check how they feel about all the characters. Any character can be re-opened for discussion.

 

[Dahbomb]

Reduce it to an even 200 duration. That's low enough for EoA.

Hsien Ko USED to do that much damage but now she has self OTG combos and extensions. Her scaling is actually pretty good so she will be doing more damage.

But damage isn't the issue... it's her potential pressure through her teleport/invincible dash that is now much faster and she can cancel her normals into that dash. There is only one character in the game who has dash cancelable normals and that's Dorm who does not have an invincible teleport dash. Basically if she gets you to block something on the ground it's a free mix up because it's going to look like this:

Make them block a normal -> They don't push block -> You jump cancel into a quick overhead or go for a command throw mix up (which she can combo off of now)

Make them block a normal -> They push block -> You dash cancel the normal into a dash to negate the push block and then do a 4 way mix up on them as you just negated their push block (ground throw, command throw, low, quick overhead or go behind them again with another dash).


Hsien Ko's up close game is actually really good between her good normals, her quick overhead and her command grab... it's just that she never had the tools to get in, apply pressure or to capitalize off of her command grab. This patch gives her everything ALONG with a Pendulum that negates advance guard, is cancelable and is faster along with a faster air dash that retains momentum.

 

[Karsticles]

Reduce it to an even 200 duration. That's low enough for EoA.

You think a 50% duration increase is not enough?

Hsien Ko USED to do that much damage but now she has self OTG combos and extensions. Her scaling is actually pretty good so she will be doing more damage.

The self-OTG stuff will only be good for extending off of her throws. Her moves cause very little hitstun, and she can't even do c.LMHS, sj.MMHS, Wesker OTG gunshot, s.S, sj.MMHS IIRC. We haven't changed that.

She's capping out here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfpY2CCIgcM

But damage isn't the issue... it's her potential pressure through her teleport/invincible dash that is now much faster and she can cancel her normals into that dash. There is only one character in the game who has dash cancelable normals and that's Dorm who does not have an invincible teleport dash. Basically if she gets you to block something on the ground it's a free mix up because it's going to look like this:

I assume you mean "Doom" here.

Make them block a normal -> They don't push block -> You jump cancel into a quick overhead or go for a command throw mix up (which she can combo off of now)

Make them block a normal -> They push block -> You dash cancel the normal into a dash to negate the push block and then do a 4 way mix up on them as you just negated their push block (ground throw, command throw, low, quick overhead or go behind them again with another dash).

Exactly! Keep in mind that our Hsien-ko is still quite slow and has trouble getting in. She should be a monster when she does get in.

Hsien Ko's up close game is actually really good between her fast normals, her quick overhead and her command grab... it's just that she never had the tools to get in, apply pressure or to capitalize off of her command grab. This patch gives her everything ALONG with a Pendulum that negates advance guard, is cancelable and is faster along with a faster air dash that retains momentum.

Quick overhead? Hsien-ko doesn't have a quick overhead. Her air dash canceled into a normal is really slow and visualized.

Besides, if this patch actually lead to a Hsien-ko that dominates tournaments, it would be some delicious poetry to witness for years. It's not like she would ever become herpaderp with these changes, she's just good. Is she maybe too good? Maybe, but she's definitely not on the level of Zero/Vergil. Keep in mind that her dash is 30 frames long, so if she gets pushblocked (23 frames blockstun) and dash-cancels it, she's not getting endless pressure or something.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah I meant Doom sorry.

I don't know how she does that one overhead of hers but it's pretty fast, I have gotten hit by it. It's the one that LLND does with j.H after locking someone with Ammy.

Also you probably want to consolidate the ground dash changes into one change list. I mean two of those lists are basically just ground dash changes, might as well combine them.

You think a 50% duration increase is not enough?

I like even numbers although I guess 180 is more even as it's 3 flat seconds so I guess go with that if you want. Not that big of a deal but 300 frames was getting a bit much.

 

[Karsticles]

Yeah, let's go with 180 frames. We have to keep in mind that some characters are completely helpless to Eye of Agamotto, and 5 seconds is a long time to be helpless.

Yeah I meant Doom sorry.

I don't know how she does that one overhead of hers but it's pretty fast, I have gotten hit by it. It's the one that LLND does with j.H after locking someone with Ammy.

Also you probably want to consolidate the ground dash changes into one change list. I mean two of those lists are basically just ground dash changes, might as well combine them.

It feels fast because no one uses Hsien-ko, so when she gets in on you it's a confusing moment. All-in-all, it requires her to:
1) Jump to minimum dash height (7 frames - 3 are pre-jump).
2) Perform minimum dash frames before an attack cancel can occur (7 frames).
3) j.H (13 frame startup).

So we're talking about a 27 frame overhead, which is like the startup time on Dormammu's Dark Hole - not fast at all. Plus it's highly telegraphed; you have a full 14 frames where you are watching Hsien-ko go into the air before it lands. It only feels fast because of character unfamiliarity and Cold Star obfuscation.

FYI, the dash frame data is taken from p44 of the guide.

 

[Dahbomb]

Are you sure you need to dash for that overhead? Seems like when she does it she just stays in one spot, almost like she's jumping up and then just doing it.

Also in other news new Assist Me Season 3 Episode 1 released featuring Dante.

 

[Karsticles]

Are you sure you need to dash for that overhead? Seems like when she does it she just stays in one spot, almost like she's jumping up and then just doing it.

Also in other news new Assist Me Season 3 Episode 1 released featuring Dante.

100% sure. I have a pocket Hsien-ko and wanted to put her on my main team at one point, but she's Shuma-Gorath levels of bad. :-(

The dash levels out her air mobility, which is why it looks so close to the ground. It stops her from going up higher.

You're welcome to check LLND matches to be sure.

I am really behind on Assist Me. :-(

 

[Dahbomb]

You are probably caught up with Assist Me, this was their first episode in a LONG time.

 

[Karsticles]

You are probably caught up with Assist Me, this was their first episode in a LONG time.

Naw, I haven't even seen the X-23 episode all the way through. Live got crazy busy and I just never caught up. I did watch the injustice one, though.

 

[SolarKnight]

So today I found out that not only is Chris G coming in two weeks, but so is Fchamp (and Angelic and Mike Ross but that's not news).

A Mexican is so not gonna win this Mexican major now

 

[Dahbomb]

So today I found out that not only is Chris G coming in two weeks, but so is Fchamp (and Angelic and Mike Ross but that's not news).

A Mexican is so not gonna win this Mexican major now

Another ChrisG vs FChamp Grand Finals to look forward to.

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

Good games Gods Beard, our connection has never been good ha

 

["God's Beard!"]

Good games Gods Beard, our connection has never been good ha

I'm on my bad internet again. Some funny stuff in our set though. Magneto slapping Nova out of the Human Rocket was hilarious.

 

[Professor Beef]

So today I found out that not only is Chris G coming in two weeks, but so is Fchamp (and Angelic and Mike Ross but that's not news).

A Mexican is so not gonna win this Mexican major now

Americans takin' your jobs tournaments?

 

[Karsticles]

I would like everyone who has a "N" on any character to list why they are a "N" for that character. Then, Dahbomb, perhaps you could compile all of the issues so we could talk through them?

BE SPECIFIC.

MAGNETO
I am against this particular implementation of Magnetic Blast. If we get rid of the ground recovery, I will support it. I am concerned about it messing with his fluidity and combos.

MODOK
I am against keeping his unblockable. I also understand Zissou's concerns about the buffed up Shield Barrier, and I am okay with removing that buff if it gets him to a "Y".

ROCKET RACCOON
I am against keeping his unblockable.

Let's try to wrap this up, gentlemen!

 

[Dahbomb]

I thought we already voted on Mag Blast specifically for a 3-1 vote?

I will compile the problems but until then people should peruse through these UMVC3 stats:

http://www.eventhubs.com/stats/umvc3/

Fucking Dr Doom.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I thought we already voted on Mag Blast specifically for a 3-1 vote?

I will compile the problems but until then people should peruse through these UMVC3 stats:

http://www.eventhubs.com/stats/umvc3/

Fucking Dr Doom.

Well when you have 3 great assists and you're a good character.......yeah fuck Dr Doom.


One of my friends wants to start playing this and I was trying to think of a team that he can start off with. Like what would this games Cable/Sent/Commando be? As in easy as fuck to play and still very effective. Wolverine/Doom/Vergil?

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah Wolverine/Doom/Vergil is the defacto team scrub of this game. Easy buttons, easy game plan, easy life. You can also replace Wolverine with Nova or Wesker, that teams works out fine as well.

Also FChamp said on his Fighting Game Mastery series that Phoenix does not lose to Vergil contrary to what most people think. He said that yeah if Vergil is already set up with swords and a bunch of meter Dark Phoenix will lose but that situation doesn't happen as often and it can be controlled by the regular Phoenix. Having two lives gives Phoenix the advantage as she can easily kill Vergil with just regular Phoenix. He also gave tips as to how to bait out the Swords then re-apply pressure or to keep applying pressure so he doesn't put on the swords. And of course he said that if Dark Phoenix is activated before Vergil is in play, it's a free win anyway.

He also said that while Phoenix is a very strong character still... she is really only viable because Doom (and other TAC characters) and Morrigan exist. Without those two characters she would probably be irrelevant in the meta game.

 

[Dahbomb]

Spider Man - Still controversy on Web Glide nerf and the character in general.

Trish - Bunch of changes that were opposed most importantly the changes on Low Voltage.

Viewtiful Joe - Seems like there's a typo error on him:

+Voomerang (charged) changed disappear after the second hit; no longer lingers once its durability is gone.

Also Beef requested a change on cr.M which needs to be discussed.

Wolverine - I said that I still want a 5% reduction in base damage on his normals.

Zero - Frantic stated he was opposed to some of the Buster changes, still no response on what specific changes he would like to be made.


Unblockable characters that need to be looked at again:

Firebrand, Viper, MODOK, Rocket Raccoon, Taskmaster, Dormammu.


As far as MODOK's shield change goes, I am fine with reverting it but the unblockable stuff needs talking about as a whole not just one singular character. We need to draw hard lines as to what is acceptable and what is not while also looking at character strength (no unblockable is equal because no character is equal).

On Magneto if we are still contesting on that character then I still maintain that the current Mag Blast change is the best one for the greater good of the game. The move is in fact way too good and while I don't like to bring up tournament performance... Magneto was just dominating so many characters with that single move all tournament long at Canada Cup. Like at times it doesn't even look like the Magneto player is putting thought into his Mag Blast usage, he is just throwing it out without any real thought. The risk/reward for the move makes no sense... it's too much reward for almost no risk.

 

["God's Beard!"]

You guys are changing the recovery on Magnetic blast? The hell?

 

[Dahbomb]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84161363]You guys are changing the recovery on Magnetic blast? The hell?[/QUOTE]
Read the first page under Magneto. It's just 3 frame recovery on ground... in the air the move is essentially unchanged in the neutral.

We did have the durability change on it but Karst hated that even more. Quite frankly he actually needs the durability of 5 on that in the Morrigan match up.. he definitely does not need that move to be so absurdly safe and spammable against a big portion of the cast. A durability nerf wouldn't really rectify the match up dominance he has over some characters.

 

[Sigmaah]

Dr Doom is unbelievably balanced.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Read the first page under Magneto. It's just 3 frame recovery on ground... in the air the move is essentially unchanged in the neutral.

Wow, like Magnetic Blast links were too easy or something.

 

[Dahbomb]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84163093]Wow, like Magnetic Blast links were too easy or something.[/QUOTE]
It's not about whether something is easy or hard... it's about whether something is over powered or not. It's the same excuse people come up to defend Zero and his combos "but but Lightning Loops are hard to do!" If we could change Mag Blasts without affecting his combos we would but there was no real suggestion given that tackles all concerns. Right now 3 out of 4 people agree the move is too good and that change was the one that was agreed upon. And the change was technically approved with the vote but I guess we are re-voting on it.

 

["God's Beard!"]

That makes no sense and you know it. Increasing the recovery of the move by 3 frames doesn't do anything to weaken his neutral game, it just makes mag blast into 2H super hard. It's not a broken combo, it's barely average among top characters. If you think that this is nerfing anything that could reasonably be considered broken about Mag Blast(it isn't), then you've failed.

It took the most dedicated Marvel player in the world every trick in the book and ounce of skill he had to bring his movement and Magnetic Blast placement to the level that let him fight morrigan to a stalemate.

 

[Karsticles]

I thought we already voted on Mag Blast specifically for a 3-1 vote?

I will compile the problems but until then people should peruse through these UMVC3 stats:

http://www.eventhubs.com/stats/umvc3/

Fucking Dr Doom.

We did, but I want to know why everyone who voted N did so. I included Magneto, and I want Zissou to include Dormammu, since he never actually gave specific reasons except for not wanting him to get buffs since he plays Doom and gets pwned all the time. ;-)

 

[Dahbomb]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84164459]That makes no sense and you know it. Increasing the recovery of the move by 3 frames doesn't do anything to weaken his neutral game, it just makes mag blast into 2H super hard. It's not a broken combo, it's barely average among top characters. If you think that this is nerfing anything that could reasonably be considered broken about Mag Blast(it isn't), then you've failed.[/QUOTE]
So it doesn't make it impossible? Most of the argument against the nerf was that it would make his combos impossible... if its harder that's not a big deal at all.

I don't know how you can't see the impact of having a 3 frame ground recovery on the move. That combined with the decreased block stun would mean he has less advantage off of the move on block.

Like I said, if you have a better way of reducing the way the move shits on 95% of the cast single handedly without affecting its comboability I am all ears.

It took the most dedicated Marvel player in the world every trick in the book and ounce of skill he had to bring his movement and Magnetic Blast placement to the level that let him fight morrigan to a stalemate.

That's a problem in that one match up. The thing is that by pushing that move to that level.. he has effectively shitted on most other characters in the game. One of Magneto's supposed "bad match ups" has now put the match up back in his favor because FChamp learned that you could TK Magnetic Blast into another Magnetic Blast which basically shut down almost all of Wolverine's approach options... since then he has not lost to a Wolverine in tournament including the best ones like PRRog.

In this new patch, Magneto is the undeniable best character in the game by a wide margin. That's a problem.

We did, but I want to know why everyone who voted N did so. I included Magneto

We basically had like 3 pages worth of discussion on it. You are welcome to go back and peruse through it again. The only person who didn't give a reason for it was Zissou. Frantic and I were strongly against the original Mag Blast change (which was essentially no change IIRC).

 

[Professor Beef]

Hey Karst, are you available to play some games tomorrow?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Why are you adding the recovery if you're reducing the stun? Just take 3 more frames of stun out if it bothers you so much. All you're doing is making it annoying to move around, and you shouldn't make it less fun to control a character. That's a really poor choice.

 

[Karsticles]

That's a problem in that one match up. The thing is that by pushing that move to that level.. he has effectively shitted on most other characters in the game. One of Magneto's supposed "bad match ups" has now put the match up back in his favor because FChamp learned that you could TK Magnetic Blast into another Magnetic Blast which basically shut down almost all of Wolverine's approach options... since then he has not lost to a Wolverine in tournament including the best ones like PRRog.

In this new patch, Magneto is the undeniable best character in the game by a wide margin. That's a problem.

Does Justin Wong not count as a Wolverine player or something?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61R6Qvo-ud8

We basically had like 3 pages worth of discussion on it. You are welcome to go back and peruse through it again. The only person who didn't give a reason for it was Zissou. Frantic and I were strongly against the original Mag Blast change (which was essentially no change IIRC).

The original Magnetic Blast change GB proposed was too big of a nerf, IIRC. I don't remember what it was, though.

And I am talking about all "N" votes, not just Magnetic Blast. I know the conversation on that one, it still irritates me.

Hey Karst, are you available to play some games tomorrow?

I am not - weekends only, pretty much.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84165411]Why are you adding the recovery if you're reducing the stun? Just take 3 more frames of stun out if it bothers you so much. All you're doing is making it annoying to move around, and you shouldn't make it less fun to control a character. That's a really poor choice.[/QUOTE]
See, and this just seems so obvious to me.

 

[Dahbomb]

Does Justin Wong not count as a Wolverine player or something?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61R6Qvo-ud8

The Mag Blast technique that FChamp learned was post EVO. EVO and pre-EVO both PRRog and Justin pretty much beat FChamp at most tournaments but after EVO he specifically stated he started going into the lab to figure out tech against Wolverine and he did which he detailed in his Fighting Game Mastery series.

The original Magnetic Blast change GB proposed was too big of a nerf, IIRC. I don't remember what it was, though.

His change was just changing durability from 5 to 4... which doesn't change much except making the Morrigan vs Magneto match up even worse for Magneto.

The only change on Mag Blast that will get accepted is the one that rectifies the following issues with the move for most of the cast:

*Trip guarding against the move is pretty much a useless effort, the move's recovery is too good and block stun too high

*The move on whiff is still extremely safe allowing Mag Blasts to be spammed with impunity. Most Mag players get by even with poor placement of that move.


IMO a block stun change doesn't rectify the second issue. You aren't going to get a Mag Blast change accepted until something is done about that. It's like what it was in Vanilla with EMD which was super spammable even on block.

 

[Azn_Boy]

3f ground delay isn't going to affect the BnB everyone uses, you already pause for a second after landing from Mag Blast anyways.

It will affect RayRay's BnB and various corner combos where you do j.H adf j.H xx mag blast, j.MH xx mag blast.

 

[Karsticles]

The Mag Blast technique that FChamp learned was post EVO. EVO and pre-EVO both PRRog and Justin pretty much beat FChamp at most tournaments but after EVO he specifically stated he started going into the lab to figure out tech against Wolverine and he did which he detailed in his Fighting Game Mastery series.

So you're citing FChamp not losing at the what...two tournaments we have had since Evo? Come on now.

 

[Dahbomb]

So you're citing FChamp not losing at the what...two tournaments we have had since Evo? Come on now.

I am talking about his performance in casuals, long sets and on his FGTV stream plus what he is actually saying and showing. I mean there's a clear demarcation of how he handled the match up before and after. The tournament where you really saw this was at Lanhammer where FChamp beat PRRog in GF.

This is why I said I don't like bringing up tournament standings/results. To me what a person is doing in match (regardless of the result of the match) is more important. Like for example, yeah FChamp blew up ChrisG this weekend but what was actually happening on screen didn't show a Magneto advantage over Morrigan despite the wins. No one is going to cite that match as indicative of Magneto winning the Morrigan match up and if they do they are dumb.

 

[Zissou]

What happened to nerfing magnetic blast through reducing blockstun significantly while leaving everything else alone?

 

[Frantic]

Even Champ suggested a three frame ground recovery of Magnetic Blast back when FGTV was doing a patch list, which is mainly why I chose the number three when I suggested the change.

I'll go over my "N" votes soon. Too tired right now, and I'll be busy tomorrow.

 

[Zissou]

I think that MODOK's unblockable is fine because slime doesn't persist very long- we could shorten its duration even more if it's really a problem. If we remove Raccoon's unblockable, he needs significant buffs to compensate- he already can't set it up solo anyway. I'm leaning toward removing Firebrand's unblockable since it's really only for dumb snap loops which are not interesting and many characters will still be succeptible even without H tenderizer assist. For Task, I've come around to changing his unblockables to overheads since they were already terrible and he could use something to open up people a bit more readily.

As for Dormammu, he's already really good and when properly set-up is untouchable by a huge chunk of the cast (this isn't just salty point Doom player talk, I swear!). Even with missiles nerfed a bit, I'm very wary of buffing him much. He'll already be a much better support character than before which takes care of his core issue- that he loses the opening gambit pretty badly must be played down in the order yet offers little support from position two or three while he's waiting for his turn to play.

For Trish, Frantic is unquestionably the expert on her amongst us, so I will wait until he weighs in. I don't know about messing with hopscotch and peekabo, but I generally agree with the rest of the changes. She's always felt a lot like Doom to me, in that she's a zoner who loses to other zoners, so it's be nice to give her more options when fighting certain dedicated zoning characters.

For Morrigan, I don't like giving her an aerial command throw or an OTG fireball. I think the missiles nerf isn't as significant as you guys think, and a bunch of new hidden missiles-ish assists are being added (tracking purification, meteor smash, energy javelin, typhoon, etc.), so who knows how it'll pan out. I feel like Morrigan is the last character we should decide on, since we really need to evaluate how our revised versions of all the other characters can deal with her.

I was also concerned about charged voomerangs currently being too good. Nobody cares because nobody plays Joe, but charged voomerangs all day is a really strong and really braindead tactic.

 

[Dahbomb]

What happened to nerfing magnetic blast through reducing blockstun significantly while leaving everything else alone?

It was either reduce it to +12 or +15 and 3 frame ground recovery. Having it just be reduced block stun doesn't actually impact the potency of the move in terms of destroying so many match ups. At some point if you reduce the block stun too much it becomes punishable on chicken block which isn't what we want so +12 was the most we could reduce it. It still doesn't change the effectiveness of the move on whiff either.

We should definitely talk about Charged Voomerangs more. I too feel that they veer into derpy territory when you got someone locked down with it. Really surprised no one has paired that up with Doom Missiles yet. Right now Voomerangs are fine because their durability isn't all that much and they really only crush armored characters (most other characters got buffs to get around that sort of stuff).

Going to be strumming up a tier list with explanation coming tomorrow regarding this patch. I have all the data I need now as we are essentially done. Even the debated changes wouldn't push the tier lists around much (Magneto even with our proposed Mag Blast nerf would still be the best character in the game).

 

[MiniBossBattle]

When are they going to put Canada Cup marvel top 8 on youtube?

 

[Dahbomb]

Strummed up a tier list for the new patch:

Theory patch tier list

*Not sure where to rank Felicia, Jill, X23, Iron Fist so I jumbled them together.

*Not sure where this new Hsien Ko would fall in. Could be lower mid, could be high tier hard to say.

*Magneto and Dante are the two best characters in the game with Dante essentially being the new Doom. Magneto is the best point character in the game.

*Phoenix Wright is the worst character in the game again.

*Tier lists factoring in all unblockables removed. RR would be bottom 5-6 character easily without unblockable.

*Biggest changes in tier list include: Iron Man (up), Sentinel (up), Storm (up), Vergil (down), Iron Fist (up), Zero (down), Viper (down), Doom (down), Ghost Rider (up), Shuma (up), Arthur (up).

 

[Parallax Scroll]

haggar tac infinite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0ZbxEy5ASk

 

[Karsticles]

Strummed up a tier list for the new patch:

Theory patch tier list

*Not sure where to rank Felicia, Jill, X23, Iron Fist so I jumbled them together.

*Not sure where this new Hsien Ko would fall in. Could be lower mid, could be high tier hard to say.

*Magneto and Dante are the two best characters in the game with Dante essentially being the new Doom. Magneto is the best point character in the game.

*Phoenix Wright is the worst character in the game again.

*Tier lists factoring in all unblockables removed. RR would be bottom 5-6 character easily without unblockable.

*Biggest changes in tier list include: Iron Man (up), Sentinel (up), Storm (up), Vergil (down), Iron Fist (up), Zero (down), Viper (down), Doom (down), Ghost Rider (up), Shuma (up), Arthur (up).

We aren't even done. -_-

 

[Dahbomb]

Unless there are some big changes coming up, this is what things will look like. RR might go up if he doesn't lose his unblockable.