It helps damage Dr Doom a lot but Morrigan unflies at the first sight of the counter. Of course if Dr Strange manages to hit Morrigan with either SoV or 7 Rings he can X factor it into her death. The problem is having the meter in stock to be going for punishes, punishes that may not work out because of her unfly.
You can read the changelist on the first page of this OT. Just scroll down until you see the changes. The final list should be more or less what we have up there now. The completed changelist will have annotations to explain the changes as well.
That's fine. I vote yes.
Still do not agree with the histun decay on Web Throw. It's too hard to determine how it'll affect him.
They kinda messed with his confirms and combos with that. At least, that's what I heard from Cap players at the time. I don't know for sure, but I know it wasn't a completely optimal fix.
Low Voltage does its job of being a decently quick projectile to stop a lot of characters from pushblocking and then counterattacking. It's fine.
Implying Zero needs the mixup is silly. Zero had a lot less mixups in vanilla than what he would have in this proposed patch removing the command dash > Buster, yet he was one of the best in that game, so I fail to see why he needs it. Additionally, if he's doing it in a blockstring, you can pushblock him the same as Wolverine and he'll never cross up. He more or less has to do it raw, and he should be covering himself with an assist in that case.
Just watched it and yeah it was pretty sick. Magnums and chucking fire at the ground with Jam Session assist. Doom assist took a lot of magnum punish and in general it was just solid patient play from Senor Taxi...very very clutch wins. I'd like to see more of him.
I think Akuma's Tatsu got nerfed too when they removed the jump Tatsu loop in early vanilla. Could be wrong, but I think it did affect Tatsu's minimum hitstun. *shrug*
It's not even the c.M loop. I don't care about that. It's stuff like Hidden Missiles and Mystic Ray extensions.
I made the changes on my file.
How about we make MODOK's c.M not hit low, but it now stays out longer like a mini Flame Carpet?
Good idea - noted and added:
I have this changed in my notes already, just not on the front page.
Done.
We can talk about this.
Done.
I do not remember such a discussion.
Recorded.
Nonsense. Just look at his best bnbs that don't use Web Throw, and now you know what we did to him.
I know a few Cap mains, and I have never heard this.
It's really slow and weak. :-(
I think he needs it in this present patch. You know I have to be right if I am defending Zero from nerfs. ;-)
It's not greater, and it's also important for nerfing Sougenmu. The buster changes keep Sougenmu from pinning a player during its entire duration.
"I've got you now!"
Shield Slash hit stun was definitely nerfed. I am pretty sure there are videos documenting this. Obviously this had to happen to remove his infinite.
I thought the same when I looked at characters like Tron, She Hulk, Nemesis and Captain America. Hell I don't even think PW is worth picking.
I don't think the hitstun was changed. The infinite was removed by changing the float point of Shield Slash. Players bounced higher from the shield hit than before so it could not loop.
KEY POINT: really fucking boring to watch.
It's unnecessarily slow on a character who is already penalized when an opponent gets into the corner. It's never had someone not counter it on reaction because the animation is unique, obvious, and slow. She needs something to help her open people up in the corner. It is only seen once in a blue moon in tournaments because it is so unreliable, and it's only good for corner situations as it is.
PW can never be my kind of character, so I leave that to the PW players, and they all seem happy with what we have done.
Indeed.
K. I just wanted to give Taskmaster players a reason to use uncharged arrows, because right now they rarely do.
First of all.. she has tri dash pressure, throws and even weird cross ups with dive kick in the corner... she does not "need" this. Second of all... I don't care what kind of animation it has a 22 frame overhead is solid in this game, only 1 frame slower than Akuma's overhead which Justin Wong almost won EVO with. Thirdly that overhead gets used a lot in tournaments and she opens players up (both Neo and FChamp use it, sometimes even more than once in a match). The trick is using it when they don't expect it, that's how she opens you up. Fourthly, you already buffed her fly cancel speed which means any overhead she gets off of that like j.S is now also faster. Finally... when she is in XF3 or in Dark Phoenix.. that overhead becomes insanely hard to read and block.
What? None of those except for throws work in the corner. She's very susceptible to chicken blocking opponents.
Akuma's overhead has a far subtler animation.
It does not get used a lot. It's rare. Most players go for the double fly overhead instead (including me).
She has shit health and got some serious setbacks in this version with lower X-Factor values and lower health values. Look at the bigger picture.
As is every character in the game in the corner. Thing is that she has fast ground dash and cr.L to keep people from jumping.. and when they aren't jumping they are susceptible to overhead.
Define rare because I have seen it being used one of two matches every time FChamp or Neo gets to use Phoenix.
And she comes with Dark Phoenix as well. Because a change to Jean impacts Dark Phoenix as well and you are making XF3 Dark Phoenix even better because of this. The big picture is Dark Phoenix with Phoenix... any mix up or opening she gets as regular Phoenix is gravy.
It's a good thing then that we are talking about STANDING OVERHEADS then because I don't know of a single 19 frame standing overhead in the game.
Shit health? Buffed due to 20% health increase. She can now survive many LVL1s raw which is a substantial buff.
Subjective statement. Objectively it's only 1 frame faster. That's like someone saying Nova's overhead is hard to block because the animation is tricky when in fact its slower than Phoenix's overhead. Speaking strictly in terms of numbers, Phoenix has a DAMN GOOD standing overhead especially taking into consideration her overall toolset. Your problem with the overhead is not that its slow.. that's an objectively incorrect statement your problem is that the animation is subjectively too obvious to you. So you can file a suggestion to change the animation to make it trickier but we can't do that based on the changelog rules.
- The first hit of s.S is now subjected to HSD, with a minimum hitstun allowing for the second hit of s.S to hit.
The thing with adding more recovery to Grapple is that a lot of followups will no longer work. It'd make confirming off it from a read/guess not that great, so it'd be kinda ass in that situation... and it's already kinda ass in that situation since it starts up slow and recovers slow.
Wasn't it originally on both uncharged and charged versions? I think that was what the discussion was about. Don't really remember.
It's not as simple as that. Can he actually solo OTG off a Web Throw hitconfirm? Can he even solo convert off a raw Web Throw? Will he even be able to do an air combo after a single Web Throw? Saying Web Throw combos are boring is a poor excuse for potentially harming a lot of combos/confirms.
Hitstun deterioration was definitely changed. Pretty sure it affected some of his combos, but eh... I don't know much about Cap(and that was a long time ago) so I don't know how severely it affected him.
All it'd really do is make her good matchups better while her harder matchups are no different.
That's not how it works.
Added to my notes. I'm sure we will all support an infinite removal, so no need to re-vote.
What do you suggest?
I don't remember, clearly. What would you like to see happen for Low Voltage?
Games should be fun, so I actually find "boring" to be a strong argument.
K.
So many glitches...
I don't feel like you've given a real argument against it except that you think Zero might only be able to solo relaunch twice, to which I just say "okay".
I don't know I was always under the impression that if a change is made on the list (big or small) then the new changes have to be voted on again. I see it as both our fault here... yours for not specifying what was changing and me for not picking it up before voting on it. I really do think that if there is even a minor change that voting has to be re-opened because people have to check to see the new list is in order before making a comment.
Thing is that you don't need cross up moves to open someone up in the corner. You have a fast low and an overhead plus a comboable throw you are good to go especially if you are sitting on X factor. In all the games that FChamp has played he has no issue opening someone up with Phoenix because of her complete package... no one has been able to time his Phoenix out for over a year or so.
IMO if Dark Phoenix was activated and she was unable to KO the entire team... she already fucked up. It's like Vergil when in XF3 and meter... if he uses all of that and the team isn't dead yet, he fucked up and probably deserves the loss (and in most cases he does lose because without juice Vergil is not that good at all).
If one other committee member posts to say that he honestly did not know that change was about the startup, and that the typo clarification makes him think differently about it, we'll re-open discussion. Otherwise it would just be a 3/4 anyway. So, if Frantic or Zissou say that they thought they were voting for something else, we'll talk about it more. Fair?
I'm talking about tools lost, though. Not just total toolset. I do feel this is a big deal for Phoenix.
I'm saying that with our new X-Factor and health values, Dark Phoenix failing to KO an entire team might be the norm. I totally agree that in the current game, you mess up if you don't win once she is on the screen safely. That's her game at that point. But with weaker X-Factor values and some characters having huge health, we might see Dark Phoenix burning 1/3-1/2 of her X-Factor time taking down a character like Chris.
Are you the guy who did the FT10 against Prozac? Or are there other Jill/Frank/Strider players? Haha.
-_-
Discuss away.
It definitely won't affect Ryuenjin into Buster. Ryuenjin has tons of hitstun.
You would know if this were you, I'm sure.Maybe, I don't pay attention to who I fight online, but probably not. To find other Jill/Frank/Strider players you have to find Jill players first
But yeah, I'm almost positive that's the most popular Jill team, so there's probably a lot more.
Vote recorded.
It's a bit hard to say. The neutral tech is really helpful for Dante's oki, so removing it would kinda hurt, but at the same time there's not a lot you can do to remove the 'unblockables'.
Eh... I wouldn't change much from the current list. I'd probably take a universal five frame reduction over the 4 durability change. So 10/15/20 instead of 15/20/25. It'd make them better without making them too good. They have more startup and recovery than other similar projectiles, so yeah.
That's fine, I suppose.
Ryuenjin > Buster is basically Zero's best option against a rushdown character like Wolverine at the start of the round, and if it doesn't combo(and if there's a ten frame gap between Ryuenjin's active frame and Buster), it becomes a lot less threatening and will allow Wolverine to just maneuver around it and punish. It ultimately makes Zero's options far less scary at the start(because 10 frame Buster by itself isn't enough to deter some characters in a lot of cases).
Test it out yourself in training mode and look closely at where and when you can connect Ryuenjin into Buster. It becomes immediately apparent having five additional frames would remove it.
jsoledout is the best Jill I've ever played/seen. I hate Jill because of him.
How did it work in Vanilla? Maybe we should just say:
I vote yes, then.
The way it was in vanilla, as far as I know, was that activating Float reset the jump state so she could call assists. It was basically like how getting hit/blocking after a super jump lets you call assists, since it resets the jump state.
I don't think RR should get this. RR has lots of tools Storm does not have; they've very different characters with one similar tool. We gave him some crazy good stuff.
I really want to emphasize that that strategy is shit. I have tried it.
I could get behind that, although there are sometimes where the negation effect is kinda useful. They can't chain into another normal, meaning you can often times get a free punish. Rarely happens, but it's there.