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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
I forgot about this. In that case its fine, Carry on then.
I haven't used she-hulk much since vanilla. Dem nerfs ...
Pretty sure I've finally found a guaranteed way to get a Volcano combo off a Vajra hit on every character. Normally, the usual j.H > Air Play > j.H varies from character to character due to weight and pushback differences, so it'd work on some character(and with super tight timing), but not on others(not without having the absolute perfect spacing/timing). The new way is relatively easy, too. It's just Volcano, jump(straight up if close, up forward if at a distance) and go straight into Air Play, followed by a near immediate j.H(you can delay it on some smaller characters since the Air Play won't hit frame one, giving you a few extra frames to connect j.H) and then s.S. Might have to use s.H to push them back some if they're too close, or cr.H if they're too far, but there's plenty of time to connect either one.
This method lets Dante get around 520k meterless off every Vajra hit if you go for shot loops, and builds about a 1.25 meters. More if you have the really good extension assists like MIssiles and Drones. Might have to bust out the old recording software to show it off. You can also use this after a normal confirm to combo cr.H + Vajra > s.S > Million Carats from mid-screen without using a ground bounce, or having the tighter link with a dash up s.S. Also after a Vajra + Stinger > Reverb Shock, and I have to do more testing with Jam Session + Vajra, but it seems to work for that too.
Opens up a lot more damage potential with Vajra, making the duo even stronger than it already is.
This method lets Dante get around 520k meterless off every Vajra hit if you go for shot loops, and builds about a 1.25 meters. More if you have the really good extension assists like MIssiles and Drones. Might have to bust out the old recording software to show it off. You can also use this after a normal confirm to combo cr.H + Vajra > s.S > Million Carats from mid-screen without using a ground bounce, or having the tighter link with a dash up s.S. Also after a Vajra + Stinger > Reverb Shock, and I have to do more testing with Jam Session + Vajra, but it seems to work for that too.
Opens up a lot more damage potential with Vajra, making the duo even stronger than it already is.
Also slowly but surely mastering empty s.H > Weasel Shot and Reverb Shock > Fireworks. I actually have about a 50/50 success rate with the Fireworks cancel. Also practicing Volcano after airthrows and getting consistent, as well as learning to plink Bold Cancel. Unfortunately I tend to auto-pilot in live matches and never actually use any of the tech I've been practicing. :/ One day.
biosnake20
Member
bust out the recording software
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Holy shit I was just wondering about this today and I was gonna ask you about it. Cause I figured out the exact same thing. I'm finally comfortable enough with Dante to not go for simple shit that does no damage any more, so I've been trying to expand every chance I get. I could never get anything off of volcano after Vajra.....the timing was just too rough and I knew it wasn't worth trying in a real match.
My obsession with Dante/Strider is disgusting. Pretty much every team I've been using is xxx/Dante/Strider
Modok/Dante/Strider
Nova/Dante/Strider
Wesker/Dante/Strider
Deadpool/Dante/Strider
Spider-Man/Dante/Strider
Chris/Dante/Strider
Viper/Dante/Strider
Dante/Doom/Strider or Doom/Dante/Strider
Morrigan/Dante/Strider....though sometimes I play Dante/Morrigan/Strider just for non stop Devil Trigger
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I hit a personal goal today.
I finally made it to an overall 60% win ratio.
I was about 8000 matches in and my ratio was 47% and I just was not happy with that shit since my normal ratio for any Capcom fighter is roughly 67-70%. I just did not understand this game whatsoever, but then one day it finally clicked. But since I was already 8000+ matches deep, I knew this was gonna be a long road......especially since I experiment so much with different teams.
But yeah, I had to do it. More of an OCD thing than anything.
I finally made it to an overall 60% win ratio.
I was about 8000 matches in and my ratio was 47% and I just was not happy with that shit since my normal ratio for any Capcom fighter is roughly 67-70%. I just did not understand this game whatsoever, but then one day it finally clicked. But since I was already 8000+ matches deep, I knew this was gonna be a long road......especially since I experiment so much with different teams.
But yeah, I had to do it. More of an OCD thing than anything.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I had a really bad win ratio until I started playing point hawkeye. Goddamn that shit must be annoying to fight online.
I'll see what I can do. Last time I tried to record some stuff, I was having some issues. Think there's some driver issues(reinstalled Windows recently, so I probably don't have all the drivers anymore).
Yeah, trying to land a Volcano combo post Vajra is a bit rough. If you're fast about it, you can do j.MH > Killer Bee against some characters, but it's never been super reliable for me just because of the irritating fact if you just teleport and do nothing, sometimes you'll end up on P1 side, and sometimes P2 side. You gotta confirm which side you're on before you do anything, and that just causes HSD to kick in and Killer Bee no longer connects.
Yep! I buffer the Bold Move before Stinger hits, and input the move I want right as Stinger hits. Easiest method for me, since plinking the face buttons on a pad is a pain in the ass with my thumb. Reverb Shock plink isn't hard to do, but trying to plink into an M or an H is a pain. Trying to plink a teleport is even worse. I'm basically practicing it right now, and eventually I want to actually make it my standard Bold Cancel, just so I can start making my Stingers less auto-pilot and start adding tricks, baits, and stuff.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";88812566]I had a really bad win ratio until I started playing point hawkeye. Goddamn that shit must be annoying to fight online.[/QUOTE]
Well I'm free to Hawkeye, so it's annoying online and offline.
Well I'm free to Hawkeye, so it's annoying online and offline.
Professor Beef
Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";88812566]I had a really bad win ratio until I started playing point hawkeye. Goddamn that shit must be annoying to fight online.[/QUOTE]
Joe/Hawkeye/Morrigan is the toughest team I've faced online.
Joe/Hawkeye/Morrigan is the toughest team I've faced online.
Capcom Cup UMVC3 results revealed:
http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2013/11/06/meet-the-umvc3-capcom-cup-qualifiers
Flocker got robbed but a good list otherwise.
http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2013/11/06/meet-the-umvc3-capcom-cup-qualifiers
Flocker got robbed but a good list otherwise.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I know how to do it and I wish I could explain it, but it's so damn difficult to explain anything about Dante. Only thing I can say is that if you do it after a stinger then you have to either be directly under them when you do it or behind them. If you're in front of them then it won't work.
Karsticles
Member
Frantic and Zissou, as per the norm.
2 things after the patch thing is completed gaf should make its own umvc list imo
second I payed a lot of attention to flocker this past weekend here in PR and he used a bizarre button lay out
something like this
MH L M Assist 1
L s h assist 2
something like that any reason why ?
second I payed a lot of attention to flocker this past weekend here in PR and he used a bizarre button lay out
something like this
MH L M Assist 1
L s h assist 2
something like that any reason why ?
I probably won't be able to get a post on the recent lists this week. Going out of town for the weekend. I'll try to get it done next week, though.
I would assume it has something to do with Buster charging. Probably the easiest way for him to switch between which button he's charging on the fly.
The MH and then L at the top is for plink dashing.
The L at the bottom is for Zero buster charging.
The only weird layout is the S and H position. Normally people who use L/M on top H/S on bottom have H on the left and S on the right. My guess is that he likes having assist 2 along with his H button for setting up mix ups (like st.H with Vergil call Hawkeye) and option selects.
The L at the bottom is for Zero buster charging.
The only weird layout is the S and H position. Normally people who use L/M on top H/S on bottom have H on the left and S on the right. My guess is that he likes having assist 2 along with his H button for setting up mix ups (like st.H with Vergil call Hawkeye) and option selects.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Me and some folk are going to be doing a tournament and I'm hoping we stream it or at least record it because it should be entertaining.
We're allowing our opponents to pick two of our characters. I immediately removed people from my friends list, so hopefully no one saw that the two characters I have barely used are Tron and She-Hulk. I know practically nothing about them with only 1 and 8 uses respectively. I am fucking doomed if those are my picks
I'm hoping people get stupid and pick Vergil as their one character. And I'm really hoping people pick Phoenix Wright and Hsien-Ko for me, thinking that's an auto lose. I'm probably gonna stick with picking Dante as my character for most of the tournament.
Hopefully this tourney will get people thinking creatively on the fly.
We're allowing our opponents to pick two of our characters. I immediately removed people from my friends list, so hopefully no one saw that the two characters I have barely used are Tron and She-Hulk. I know practically nothing about them with only 1 and 8 uses respectively. I am fucking doomed if those are my picks
I'm hoping people get stupid and pick Vergil as their one character. And I'm really hoping people pick Phoenix Wright and Hsien-Ko for me, thinking that's an auto lose. I'm probably gonna stick with picking Dante as my character for most of the tournament.
Hopefully this tourney will get people thinking creatively on the fly.
Karsticles
Member
Anyone want a long set right now?
Not really although this game is ripe for the pickings in terms of someone going out of their way and modding it.
Also Karst if you are free you should start up on the annotations as we are near completion. At the very least you and I can go through them together before the others vote. If you need help with any character's annotations I can provide help (especially for Iron Man and Vergil or other characters I am more familiar with).
It would be amazing if anyone ever did figure out how to mod it.
I'm willing to look over the annotations whenever you guys get around to doing them.
"God's Beard!"
Member
lol that's some high fruit on the tree if someone wants to mod a PS3/360 game though.
im not sure exactly I just know I want to learn his layout now. I got boddied at first attack and need to go back to basics to get better
I love the feeling when I'm playing at my best. I landed Volcano after an airthrow several times in set online. Shit is hard enough to do offline, but doing it online? My ego gets stroked all over the place.
Also transitioning into Volcano combos after a Vajra, and it's nice to be able to do it without worrying about doing it as quickly as possible. That need to do it immediately was what always fucked up my input in those situations where I could end up on either side. Now I can confirm into it, and it's great.
Also transitioning into Volcano combos after a Vajra, and it's nice to be able to do it without worrying about doing it as quickly as possible. That need to do it immediately was what always fucked up my input in those situations where I could end up on either side. Now I can confirm into it, and it's great.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
GG's Vice. Wanted to play more but had to go to work. If you hadn't noticed, I was appearing offline and I usually do that when I don't want to get into long sets.
I also learned during our set that my controller is fucked. I am sad. Down on the dpad doesn't work too well anymore. Hence why I couldn't do simple fireballs sometimes.
I also learned during our set that my controller is fucked. I am sad. Down on the dpad doesn't work too well anymore. Hence why I couldn't do simple fireballs sometimes.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
Cool let us know how you it goes and how you do.
Even though they are both low tier, that combo can be annoying as all hell to fight.
Is there honestly a team combination that Dante wouldn't be beneficial to any of the characters?
I got this yesterday:
Any advice for a layout where I can learn to plink?
Haha, someone locally on craigslist. I was like: "I'll probably never see another deal this good", and I went and got it right away. The guy was only selling it this low because he had a bunch of other sticks, he was pretty cool.
Check your craigslist, maybe?
It's great, for $60, like new. I'm happy with it, also I did see everyone's advice and responses from last week, I'm still trucking (metaphorically). I just needed a break from Marvel.
Any advice for a layout where I can learn to plink?
Haha, someone locally on craigslist. I was like: "I'll probably never see another deal this good", and I went and got it right away. The guy was only selling it this low because he had a bunch of other sticks, he was pretty cool.
Check your craigslist, maybe?
Yo damn. Where did you get one for $60? I'd buy one immediately if I could get one at that price.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
It was real good times. Unfortunately the streaming equipment wasn't working, but we're gonna do this again since it turned out to be really fun, so next time we will have it streaming.
Before we started a few people commented to me how they thought it was funny but smart that I removed them from my friends list.
I played 6 matches total, but I don't know if I'll comment on all of them.
I had the first match and sure enough the guy picked Phoenix Wright and Hsien-Ko for me. I can't believe that people can't see right off the bat that's a bad decision. Whatever, it worked for me. We were doing blind select for the two mystery characters, but since I had a feeling that guy was going to pick Wright and Hsien-Ko for me, I ended up picking Frank West and Iron Fist for him. I knew it was a huge risk as he could pick anyone to level up Frank and he'd have an awesome assist with Iron Fist, but I knew he was a Nova player and he'd probably pick Nova, who I'm very comfortable fighting against. Yup, so he went with Nova/Frank/Iron Fist. I had Hsien-Ko/Wright/Dante. I completely wrecked him as he didn't know how to deal with armored Hsien-Ko + Maya Shield, so I was getting Turnabout fairly easily. Granted my Turnabout combos are shit, but I get by.
We were all watching each other closely to see who was shit/good with who. My next opponent was one of the guys that I had on my friends list, so I was hoping he didn't get a glimpse of my unused characters. He did, but he made a mistake. He picked Spider-Man and Shuma, who've I've been playing together a TON lately, just not online. I picked Magneto and Thor for him since I know he doesn't really play either. Spidey/Shuma/Dante vs Magneto/Thor/Doom. His Magneto was ass, even with missiles. I don't think he believed anyone would actually pick Mags since he's such a good character. He obviously had been practicing his Thor though in preparation. He had some legit shit and was landing command grabs at will. I ended up winning though. Spidey/Shuma/Dante is legit....my Shuma is still kinda shitty though.
I knew nothing about my next opponent for my third set, so I decided to go with two characters with mediocre assists. I picked Spidey and Ghost Rider. His team was Spidey/GR/Ammy. Little did I know that he was a Spider-Man player......fuck. Fortunately for me he picked Modok and Joe, both characters that I'm very familiar with, but I have never played them on the same team as they are both point characters for me. I think he went with the same logic I did, pick two characters with mediocre assists. Modok/Joe/Strider vs Spidey/GR/Ammy....at least I was able to get away at the start of every round. I ended up winning but I did very poorly against the Spidey/Ammy dynamic and dark Strider bailed my ass out every match. He said his regular teams are Spidey/Wesker/Ammy and Spidey/Deadpool/Ammy, so I almost screwed that up bad.
My fourth set wasn't really anything special. He picked Jill and Chun for me. I took a risk and went with Iron man since I play Jill and Iron Man together. I picked Jill and She-Hulk for him. Jill/Chun/IronMan vs Jill/SheHulk/Vergil. His Jill and She-Hulk were free but derp Vergil was derpy. I managed to survive though.
I went against one of the guys that was on my friends list for my fifth set (winners finals) and before the match we were watching another match and just shooting the shit, and he commented about how he remembered seeing Phoenix near the bottom of my list. I was like "You really wanna take that risk against Phoenix?" And I think that was a tell because in my head I was like "Please please please please please don't pick Phoenix". I guess he went with his gut and I was very upset when the guy running the tourney told me that my characters were Phoenix and Rocket Raccoon. I can play Raccoon but I don't like having such a fragile team, plus Raccoon's position on the team is so dependent on my other characters. I went with Morrigan and I was gonna pick Zero and Storm for him but I saw that someone earlier did that and he had apparently practiced a ton with them and had some scary stuff. I ended up going with Jill and Shuma cause those were two other characters I knew he barely played with. Raccoon/Morrigan/Phoenix vs Jill/Shuma/Strange. I tried to run and just call Morrigan assist to build meter for Phoenix but it didn't work and I ended up taking two quick losses. He had been practicing with both characters and it showed. Jill + bolts was a fucking nightmare. I switched my order to Morrigan/Raccoon/Phoenix and it worked out much better, but only because I was burning meter for astral vision. In the last match I actually ended up building 5 meters, so I stopped using it.....that was a mistake. I had all three characters left against his Strange, but one bad assist call got Raccoon killed. One teleport and a FotF loop later Morrigan was dead. Phoenix came in and I got killed and got Dark Phoenix but I'm just so fraudulent with her. Strange destroyed her no problem and I got sent to losers finals
My final set was against another guy that I knew nothing about, but he saw how shitty I was with Phoenix so he went with her. He didn't go with Raccoon though and I asked him why and he said he figured that I was gonna pick characters that were gonna have a hard time with Morrigan/Raccoon if I went with that again. He was right, though I figured he probably thought that. I didn't think the other character he would pick for me was gonna be Phoenix Wright though considering my showing with him earlier. It was a good pick though, cause I wasn't anticipating it and I didn't want to pick Hsien-Ko because I was scared to fail with both of them since I couldn't have Dante to bail me out. So I went with Doom knowing that I was picking Chris and Nemesis for him. He picked Hawkeye.....
. Wright/Doom/Phoenix vs Chris/Nemesis/Hawkeye. He didn't know what he was doing with Chris, and his Nemesis was nothing special. I easily got to turnabout and I beat him the first match. He switched his order to Hawkeye/Nemesis/Chris and beat me pretty bad. I went to character select and changed my character to Dorm. Dorm/Wright/Phoenix. I won and then he switched to Vergil. Vergil/Nemesis/Chris. He beat me and then I changed my order to have Dorm as anchor and just sacrifice Phoenix since I can't play her for shit. I actually ended up beating his Vergil with Phoenix! I was just pressing buttons....I had no idea what I was doing. I figured I had it won since I took out Vergil. Nemesis came in and I attempted a teleport mixup but I think he went for a clothesline but since I teleported the input got reversed and I teleported right into a command grab and she quickly went down. Wright came in and I bring out Maya to collect evidence, but I had a brain fart and forgot about the Nemesis command grab even though I just got killed by it. He does a reset which I don't think Wright can do anything about and then he goes down. No fear, I have xf3 Dorm and 3 1/2 bars. He has 4 bars but who gives a shit. I'm wrecking Nemesis and I know I should activate xf, but for some stupid reason I don't. He raw tags to Chris and I start killing him and decide to end this and go into xf after an air combo and do my level 3....or at least that's what I intended. Somehow I flubbed the input and did Chaotic Flame. Meh whatever...I can still do this easily. He pops me with a magnum shot and goes into sweep combo which of course won't work...but he dhc's to rockets with Nemesis....fuck.....he xf's...fuck...another rocket super....fuck........dhc to sweep combo........fuck....dead. I couldn't believe that shit. He claims he was just doing stuff and hoping it would work....I think he had some inkling it would work though. Oh well. 3rd place, not too bad.Overall it was a really fun tournament and we're thinking for next time that the 1 character we pick for ourselves should also be blind select. Doom and Vergil were the most selected characters by the way....no surprise there. What is kinda surprising is that Wolverine was only played once. But I guess without an assist you want, you wouldn't play him. The top 5 characters picked for opponents were Phoenix Wright, Spider-Man, Jill, Modok, and Thor.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Oh damn, I typed a lot....I don't blame you guys if you don't read that shit.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
I read it all, very interesting stuff. It sounds like low tier heroes would do well in this kinda of setup. You really need to be adequate with all characters. I feel I can do well with 10% of the characters in the game, do okay with about 70% and can't even do basic shit with about 20%.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Say you went to this tourney and someone picked Wright for you....unknowing that you actually play the character, who would have been your pick to back him up? Wesker or Hulk? Or neither, since you couldn't have had both?
It is literally close to impossible to Bold Cancel consistently on this thing, I knew it'd be a bumpy transition though. On the offhand, I just did Bold Cancel teleporting for the first time, and I can do it consistently now. My Dante mid-screen combos just got a whole lot better!
I would personally go with Dante, team super catches a lot of people off guard if they don't know about it.
Unfortunately people here know I can use almost everyone to some level so I dunno who they'd give me, haha.
Keep at it, it can be really frustrating while transitioning but you'll get it.
Sorry for the wait (as always)!
Yes.
Yes.
Do you have the current frame data for gunfire M handy for comparison's sake?
Yes. We need make it clear that stars and stripes is not cancelable on block/whiff though.
No on helper persisting on tag out.
No. Strongly against helper persisting on tag out.
Yes.
Not sure about health stealing. The wording needs to be more specific. How much health? Red health only?
Yes.
Has our version of Thor always had armored st.H?
Yes... I think. The changes to web glide seem kind of out there, and making UWT air-OK has always seemed sketch to me, but I voted yes before and I'm fine with the web throw assist thing.
What's the deal with the form A1 change? It's just a projectile at that point, no? Also seems weird/inconsistent that A2 is being left as-is.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Do you have the current frame data for gunfire M handy for comparison's sake?
Yes. We need make it clear that stars and stripes is not cancelable on block/whiff though.
No on helper persisting on tag out.
No. Strongly against helper persisting on tag out.
Yes.
Not sure about health stealing. The wording needs to be more specific. How much health? Red health only?
Yes.
Has our version of Thor always had armored st.H?
Yes... I think. The changes to web glide seem kind of out there, and making UWT air-OK has always seemed sketch to me, but I voted yes before and I'm fine with the web throw assist thing.
What's the deal with the form A1 change? It's just a projectile at that point, no? Also seems weird/inconsistent that A2 is being left as-is.
Yes.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
Hulk easily. Against highly skilled opponents I need the extra defense. Some characters would just slaughter me otherwise. Wesker is only good for extra damage and unblockables.
Karsticles
Member
Zero:
*Hit stop on multi-hit moves reduced for improved combo flow.
Whenever Zero lands a hit, Yipes will say Ive seen this movie before, or a line of similar intent. Every player who gets hit by Zero feels this way, because the combos are just so long feeling. In practice, they arent considerably longer than other combos like Dr. Doom mid-screen relaunches and Magneto hyper grav loops, but the hitstop from Zeros multi-hit moves are a viciously boring thing to behold. If this requires a game-wide change, we accept that. Fighting games are best enjoyed when single-player moments are minimized.
-Soft knockdown on Raikousen removed; minimum hitstun remains high; Lightning Loops still possible.
Raikousen can still lead to combos at high altitudes. This just prevents some of the combo extensions Zero uses which involve hitting Raikousen at super jump height. It is a small nerf to his combo extending possibilities. While removing Lightning Loops is a frequent request, we feel it is generally best to leave difficult yet overly strong combos intact while reducing their efficacy. This change would only affect his late-combo extensions.
-Minimum scaling on specials and normals reduced to 15%
This is our nerf to Lightning Loops. If their damage is reduced, they become a less attractive option. Zero is designed to be a high-pressure character with strong resets, but no one ever goes for Zero resets right now, leaving much of the character unexplored. This is also part of our goal to reduce damage outliers and bring everyone to around the same range to make the game more reset-focused in general.
-Raikousen canceled by Buster no longer creates a Raikousen hitbox.
This simply lets Zero cover too much of the screen at once, and he can sometimes get combos off of the cancel as well. Zero can still use raw Raikousen with its inherent risks if he wants to cover the skies, and we feel that is fair.
-Level 3 buster startup increased to 10, hits 9 times; projectile is now 9x1 durability.
Comboing at superjump height with a large, high-priority projectile is a big deal. We feel that it is only fair for the combos gained from this powerful move to suffer from strong scaling, just as combos off of strong assists like Plasma Beam and Jam Session do. The buster startup is a slight nerf to Zeros command dash canceled into a buster shot, which is a Berserker Slash-like mix-up that is also safe and leads to more pressure. The maneuver is unsafe, however, and we want to give players a slightly stronger opportunity to respond to the cross-up.
We also considered increasing the buster shots charging time, but it was agreed that this was taking the changes a bit too far. It is a skillful and difficult thing to retain the charges when playing Zero, and every additional frame makes the charge holding exponentially more difficult.
-Health reduced to 800,000.
When Zero is compared to other characters in his health bracket, it is clear that his toolset is superior. We have reduced Zeros health to better correspond to the variety of options he possesses along with his ease of approach through buster cancels.
Assists: Shippuga, Ryuenjin H, Hadangeki H
We considered making buster shot an assist, but decided that it would be too close to Chris magnum shot, which is a definite no-no as an assist. A beam projectile with the startup and priority Zeros buster has would be too strong, while its level 1 and 2 iterations would not be useful at all. Shippuga is Zeros weakest assist here, but we could not think of a better replacement. All of Zeros assists become strong options when he has Sougenmu active, which balances his point character focus.
*Hit stop on multi-hit moves reduced for improved combo flow.
Whenever Zero lands a hit, Yipes will say Ive seen this movie before, or a line of similar intent. Every player who gets hit by Zero feels this way, because the combos are just so long feeling. In practice, they arent considerably longer than other combos like Dr. Doom mid-screen relaunches and Magneto hyper grav loops, but the hitstop from Zeros multi-hit moves are a viciously boring thing to behold. If this requires a game-wide change, we accept that. Fighting games are best enjoyed when single-player moments are minimized.
-Soft knockdown on Raikousen removed; minimum hitstun remains high; Lightning Loops still possible.
Raikousen can still lead to combos at high altitudes. This just prevents some of the combo extensions Zero uses which involve hitting Raikousen at super jump height. It is a small nerf to his combo extending possibilities. While removing Lightning Loops is a frequent request, we feel it is generally best to leave difficult yet overly strong combos intact while reducing their efficacy. This change would only affect his late-combo extensions.
-Minimum scaling on specials and normals reduced to 15%
This is our nerf to Lightning Loops. If their damage is reduced, they become a less attractive option. Zero is designed to be a high-pressure character with strong resets, but no one ever goes for Zero resets right now, leaving much of the character unexplored. This is also part of our goal to reduce damage outliers and bring everyone to around the same range to make the game more reset-focused in general.
-Raikousen canceled by Buster no longer creates a Raikousen hitbox.
This simply lets Zero cover too much of the screen at once, and he can sometimes get combos off of the cancel as well. Zero can still use raw Raikousen with its inherent risks if he wants to cover the skies, and we feel that is fair.
-Level 3 buster startup increased to 10, hits 9 times; projectile is now 9x1 durability.
Comboing at superjump height with a large, high-priority projectile is a big deal. We feel that it is only fair for the combos gained from this powerful move to suffer from strong scaling, just as combos off of strong assists like Plasma Beam and Jam Session do. The buster startup is a slight nerf to Zeros command dash canceled into a buster shot, which is a Berserker Slash-like mix-up that is also safe and leads to more pressure. The maneuver is unsafe, however, and we want to give players a slightly stronger opportunity to respond to the cross-up.
We also considered increasing the buster shots charging time, but it was agreed that this was taking the changes a bit too far. It is a skillful and difficult thing to retain the charges when playing Zero, and every additional frame makes the charge holding exponentially more difficult.
-Health reduced to 800,000.
When Zero is compared to other characters in his health bracket, it is clear that his toolset is superior. We have reduced Zeros health to better correspond to the variety of options he possesses along with his ease of approach through buster cancels.
Assists: Shippuga, Ryuenjin H, Hadangeki H
We considered making buster shot an assist, but decided that it would be too close to Chris magnum shot, which is a definite no-no as an assist. A beam projectile with the startup and priority Zeros buster has would be too strong, while its level 1 and 2 iterations would not be useful at all. Shippuga is Zeros weakest assist here, but we could not think of a better replacement. All of Zeros assists become strong options when he has Sougenmu active, which balances his point character focus.
25 frames startup.
Will do.
Removed.
Negotiable.
Yup.
It should be a projectile - we can add A2 in as well if folks want to.
Karsticles
Member
X-23:
+Ankle Slice charged version startup time reduced to 30 frames and allows for a s.L link afterward; cannot be canceled into Weapon X Prime; non-charged version now OTGs with minimal hitstun (can connect Rage Trigger); assist version comes out in 35 frames.
Ankle Slice has no real use in its uncharged form. It hits low, but doesnt lead to anything. We improved Ankle Slice to make the assist more valuable and to provide X-23 with some new combo options. The charged version now allows her to have one solo relaunch without combo-extending assists, ensuring that she has a strong combo option outside of Mirage Feint loops, which are difficult to perform consistently.
+Rage Trigger now causes a soft knockdown.
This change expands X-23s DHC scope.
+Weapon X Prime causes a hard knockdown.
X-23 has to guess whether an opponent is using a projectile to counter it with Weapon X Prime, but the reward is slight for the cost. We have moved Weapon X Prime closer to Bionic Lancer and Human Rocket tier by allowing a post-hit follow-up.
+Slight hitstun increase on aerial normals.
This should allow for X-23 to perform Mirage Feint loops with slightly more ease.
+Untechable time after air and ground throws increased.
X-23 should have the ability to combo off of her air and ground throws based on her character design. This is a major differentiator between her and Wolverine right now.
+M/H Talon cancelable into Talon L. If canceled through other Talons it causes a hard knockdown, other wise it stays as it is (ie. doing Talon L after Crescent Scythe is the same as it is now)
This provides X-23 with a new approach option while also giving her a new way to create combos from aerial hits.
+Health changed to 900,000.
We feel X-23s moveset does not place her significantly below Wolverine, whom we consider to be the rushdown standard.
+X-23 is considered airborne for all frames of her Mirage Feint moves.
+Talon Attack M hitstun increased.
+j.M hitbox increased slightly.
REMIND ME WHY WE DID THESE?
Assists: Crescent Scythe H, Ankle Slice, Neck Slice (Charged)
X-23 lacks strong assist options, unfortunately. We considered giving her a running attack that is projectile invincible and crumples, but this would likely call for new animations. At least, by making Neck Slice the charged version, the move provides more coverage and blockstun. Ankle Slice is now a legitimate OTG assist on par with Samurai Edge.
Wolverine:
+Wavedashing with Wolverine is less likely to activate Berserker Charge.
Input buffer change. This happens too easily.
+Berserker Charge provides slight red health recovery.
Wolverines defining characteristic is his invincibility. We cant make him invincible, but he should at least get some red health back for spending a bar! Additionally, we suspect that Berserker Charge will become less useful in our version of the game, as characters will not die as easily as they do now. The move was a must-use to maintain pressure in Vanilla because Wolverine could X-Factor off of it and usually kill two characters, and it is a must-use now because Wolverine players TAC to a second character and infinite their opponent, making the meter expenditure a no-brainer. Both of those things are gone in our patch, so the move needs a little more love.
+Swiss Cheese changed to -3 on block.
WHY AGAIN?
-Fatal Claw damage slightly decreased.
Wolverine does slightly too much damage for the ease of which he obtains it. We also want Berserker Barrage X to become a useful option outside of chipping opponents after a Berserker Barrage.
Assists: Berserker Barrage H (fully mashed), Swiss Cheese, df.M
Berserker Barrage H gives Wolverine a pinning assist that pushes opponents back a bit, while Swiss Cheese provides an alternative to Chun-lis lightning legs assist. The game is lacking in pinning assists, so both of these additions are welcome and will benefit different characters. df.M was added as an assist to provide more OTG options in the game.
Wesker:
*Weskers in-battle character portrait now shows whether his glasses are on or off.
The style must show!
+Rhino Charge invincibility returned to Vanilla status.
It is not an exaggeration to say that this was the most skillful and thoughtful move available in Weskers Vanilla arsenal. We have no idea why it was nerfed to uselessness, and think it needs to return.
+Samurai Edge (Low) prioritizes point characters.
Many a happy birthday has been ruined because Wesker shoots the wrong attendee.
+Jaguar Kick can now be canceled into any special on block.
Jaguar Kick can already be canceled into Jaguar Palm. Now it has some additional options like Phantom Move H to provide additional pressure. This gives Wesker a new pressure game that is guaranteed to make Jaguar Kick used outside of combo videos.
+Tiger Uppercut L Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-22, and is +2 on block; causes a wall bounce.
+Tiger Uppercut M Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-25, and is +2 on block.
+Tiger Uppercut H Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-23, and is +2 on block.
All three of these moves are in the same boat. They involve a huge risk with very little reward potential. Opponents can usually block the counter attack follow-up, Wesker can get hit during the follow-up, and the follow-up leaves Wesker at a frame disadvantage in its current state. A high-risk set of moves like this should offer more to make them more appealing.
-Wesker now receives his glasses buff from Phantom Dance only when it goes to completion.
We just want to stop the silly Phantom Dance hyper at the start of a match which achieves the goal of getting his glasses off regardless of whether it hits or not too silly.
-Phantom Dance may no longer cross up.
No one should have to guess how to block a full-screen hyper, and the fact that characters can leave blockstun mid-hyper makes this move even more random. Phantom Dance is one of two hypers in the game that a player is not necessarily happy if the opponent drops his or her combo before activating Phantom Dance sometimes they get a damage boost as a result! We recommend leaving the Wesker character hitbox on one side of the screen while Wesker dances around the screen.
-Launcher changed to -5 on block.
Wesker has amazing pressure follow-up options, and there should be some incentive for not ending blockstings with his launcher during X-Factor. The move is also an ambiguous crossunder with considerable anti-air properties, and we feel that a Wesker player who attempts such a crossunder should at least lose frame advantage if his opponent blocks successfully.
Assists: Samurai Edge (Lower Shot), Samurai Edge (Horizontal Fire), Jaguar Dash + Kick
Wesker has had an effective neutral assist option in Samurai Edge (Horizontal Fire) all along! We gave it to him to ensure he is viable on more team compositions as a support character and comeback option.
+Ankle Slice charged version startup time reduced to 30 frames and allows for a s.L link afterward; cannot be canceled into Weapon X Prime; non-charged version now OTGs with minimal hitstun (can connect Rage Trigger); assist version comes out in 35 frames.
Ankle Slice has no real use in its uncharged form. It hits low, but doesnt lead to anything. We improved Ankle Slice to make the assist more valuable and to provide X-23 with some new combo options. The charged version now allows her to have one solo relaunch without combo-extending assists, ensuring that she has a strong combo option outside of Mirage Feint loops, which are difficult to perform consistently.
+Rage Trigger now causes a soft knockdown.
This change expands X-23s DHC scope.
+Weapon X Prime causes a hard knockdown.
X-23 has to guess whether an opponent is using a projectile to counter it with Weapon X Prime, but the reward is slight for the cost. We have moved Weapon X Prime closer to Bionic Lancer and Human Rocket tier by allowing a post-hit follow-up.
+Slight hitstun increase on aerial normals.
This should allow for X-23 to perform Mirage Feint loops with slightly more ease.
+Untechable time after air and ground throws increased.
X-23 should have the ability to combo off of her air and ground throws based on her character design. This is a major differentiator between her and Wolverine right now.
+M/H Talon cancelable into Talon L. If canceled through other Talons it causes a hard knockdown, other wise it stays as it is (ie. doing Talon L after Crescent Scythe is the same as it is now)
This provides X-23 with a new approach option while also giving her a new way to create combos from aerial hits.
+Health changed to 900,000.
We feel X-23s moveset does not place her significantly below Wolverine, whom we consider to be the rushdown standard.
+X-23 is considered airborne for all frames of her Mirage Feint moves.
+Talon Attack M hitstun increased.
+j.M hitbox increased slightly.
REMIND ME WHY WE DID THESE?
Assists: Crescent Scythe H, Ankle Slice, Neck Slice (Charged)
X-23 lacks strong assist options, unfortunately. We considered giving her a running attack that is projectile invincible and crumples, but this would likely call for new animations. At least, by making Neck Slice the charged version, the move provides more coverage and blockstun. Ankle Slice is now a legitimate OTG assist on par with Samurai Edge.
Wolverine:
+Wavedashing with Wolverine is less likely to activate Berserker Charge.
Input buffer change. This happens too easily.
+Berserker Charge provides slight red health recovery.
Wolverines defining characteristic is his invincibility. We cant make him invincible, but he should at least get some red health back for spending a bar! Additionally, we suspect that Berserker Charge will become less useful in our version of the game, as characters will not die as easily as they do now. The move was a must-use to maintain pressure in Vanilla because Wolverine could X-Factor off of it and usually kill two characters, and it is a must-use now because Wolverine players TAC to a second character and infinite their opponent, making the meter expenditure a no-brainer. Both of those things are gone in our patch, so the move needs a little more love.
+Swiss Cheese changed to -3 on block.
WHY AGAIN?
-Fatal Claw damage slightly decreased.
Wolverine does slightly too much damage for the ease of which he obtains it. We also want Berserker Barrage X to become a useful option outside of chipping opponents after a Berserker Barrage.
Assists: Berserker Barrage H (fully mashed), Swiss Cheese, df.M
Berserker Barrage H gives Wolverine a pinning assist that pushes opponents back a bit, while Swiss Cheese provides an alternative to Chun-lis lightning legs assist. The game is lacking in pinning assists, so both of these additions are welcome and will benefit different characters. df.M was added as an assist to provide more OTG options in the game.
Wesker:
*Weskers in-battle character portrait now shows whether his glasses are on or off.
The style must show!
+Rhino Charge invincibility returned to Vanilla status.
It is not an exaggeration to say that this was the most skillful and thoughtful move available in Weskers Vanilla arsenal. We have no idea why it was nerfed to uselessness, and think it needs to return.
+Samurai Edge (Low) prioritizes point characters.
Many a happy birthday has been ruined because Wesker shoots the wrong attendee.
+Jaguar Kick can now be canceled into any special on block.
Jaguar Kick can already be canceled into Jaguar Palm. Now it has some additional options like Phantom Move H to provide additional pressure. This gives Wesker a new pressure game that is guaranteed to make Jaguar Kick used outside of combo videos.
+Tiger Uppercut L Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-22, and is +2 on block; causes a wall bounce.
+Tiger Uppercut M Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-25, and is +2 on block.
+Tiger Uppercut H Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-23, and is +2 on block.
All three of these moves are in the same boat. They involve a huge risk with very little reward potential. Opponents can usually block the counter attack follow-up, Wesker can get hit during the follow-up, and the follow-up leaves Wesker at a frame disadvantage in its current state. A high-risk set of moves like this should offer more to make them more appealing.
-Wesker now receives his glasses buff from Phantom Dance only when it goes to completion.
We just want to stop the silly Phantom Dance hyper at the start of a match which achieves the goal of getting his glasses off regardless of whether it hits or not too silly.
-Phantom Dance may no longer cross up.
No one should have to guess how to block a full-screen hyper, and the fact that characters can leave blockstun mid-hyper makes this move even more random. Phantom Dance is one of two hypers in the game that a player is not necessarily happy if the opponent drops his or her combo before activating Phantom Dance sometimes they get a damage boost as a result! We recommend leaving the Wesker character hitbox on one side of the screen while Wesker dances around the screen.
-Launcher changed to -5 on block.
Wesker has amazing pressure follow-up options, and there should be some incentive for not ending blockstings with his launcher during X-Factor. The move is also an ambiguous crossunder with considerable anti-air properties, and we feel that a Wesker player who attempts such a crossunder should at least lose frame advantage if his opponent blocks successfully.
Assists: Samurai Edge (Lower Shot), Samurai Edge (Horizontal Fire), Jaguar Dash + Kick
Wesker has had an effective neutral assist option in Samurai Edge (Horizontal Fire) all along! We gave it to him to ensure he is viable on more team compositions as a support character and comeback option.
Are there annotations for the other characters before these or did you just start in reverse order?
Berserker Rage currently is positive on block meaning if someone blocks it Wolverine still has advantage... which sort of defeats the purpose of the move when it comes to punishing mashers.
The Talon Attack M hitstun increased is to make that move more useful for air to air situations although I feel like this was suggested as an alternative to the M/H Talons being cancelable to L Talon. You probably need to track down the person who recommended this.
God's Beard recommended the airborne change so you probably have to ask him. It's supposed to increase her mix up potency.
Berserker Rage currently is positive on block meaning if someone blocks it Wolverine still has advantage... which sort of defeats the purpose of the move when it comes to punishing mashers.
j.M hit box is to give her a decent air to air tool for combo confirms. It also brings more consistency to her combos. Someone explained this more properly when we added it in so you will probably have to look for the exact explanation.
The Talon Attack M hitstun increased is to make that move more useful for air to air situations although I feel like this was suggested as an alternative to the M/H Talons being cancelable to L Talon. You probably need to track down the person who recommended this.
God's Beard recommended the airborne change so you probably have to ask him. It's supposed to increase her mix up potency.
Karsticles
Member
I just felt like starting at the end.
Viewtiful Joe:
+Red Hot Kick L and M hit OTG.
This allows Viewtiful Joe to get combos off of his air throws, something he desperately needs. His air throws have to be thoughtful, since his j.H is not spectacular like his j.S is, and we feel this should be rewarded. The OTG option also opens up new combo extension possibilities, and likely new ways to end combos into Viewtiful Godhand.
+Viewtiful Uppercut M (assist) now allows for full combos on crossover counter.
While this is a system-wide change, we also wanted to make note of it here because of how important it is for his game.
+Voomerang (all non-charged versions) no longer disappears when Viewtiful Joe is hit.
+Groovy Uppercut M is now +10 on hit.
This allows easier combos off of Groovy Uppercut M. Right now it is a tight link, which does not belong in this game on a basic hit confirm. Viewtiful Joe has enough Street Fighter links in him as it is!
+Voomerang (charged) changed disappear after the second hit; no longer lingers once its durability is gone.
There was a match where Dieminion reverse OCVed an opposing team with X-Factorless Viewtiful Joe simply because his opponent could not get out of charged Voomerang spam. We think the primary problem here is not charged Voomerang, but rather that the graphic hovers even after hits hitbox dies, which confuses players into not knowing when they can act, which makes it hard to take advantage of the gaps in Viewtiful Joes keepaway game.
*Shocking Pink glitch fixed.
A no-brainer. Infinites are a bad thing.
Assists: Shocking Pink, Viewtiful Uppercut M, Voomerang L (Charged)
We debated on whether to remove Shocking Pink in favor of Voomerang L (Uncharged), but decided to keep it since some players have put it to unique purpose, such as Royal Flush bouncing it off of M.O.D.O.K.s Shield Barrier. We suspect that Voomerang L (Charged) will get used on quite a few teams since it hits twice and has a nice gap between those hits to allow for tick throws and mix-ups.
Vergil:
*Round Trip glitch removed.
It should not exist, and it can decimate entire teams due to the extended pinning and chip it offers.
+Lunar Phase vertical hitbox increased slightly.
Characters can sometimes inexplicably fall out of Lunar Phase during Vergil combos, and we feel this should not happen. Consistency is important. The moves unreliability has caused most top players to cancel Lunar Phase into Dimension Slash mid-attack to ensure it does not drop.
+Rising Sun now causes the same hitstun as its point version when used as a crossover counter.
This ensures Rising Sun leads to combos when used as a crossover counter.
+Sword Storm projectiles may now be fired manually with an A+S input, as with Blistering Swords.
Whenever a player uses Sword Storm, everyone is excited to see the mix-ups that result from the words. Unfortunately, there is hardly time to perform more than one mix-up, which makes the move less than worthwhile for its cost outside of situations where Vergil is attempting to take out an opponents anchor, as raw tagging also removes the crown. Allowing the projectiles to be manually fired increases the moves utility.
-Rapid Slash is now -20 on block.
This is roughly how negative Rapid Slash should be on block for Vergil to be unable to safely attack with s.L after an X-Factor 3 Rapid Slash. We are fine with him comboing off of Rapid Slash, but a failed mix-up should not also provide free pressure.
-Spiral Swords is now a level 2; vertical hitbox decreased slightly; may shift to one other sword formation free of cost.
Spiral Swords is undisputedly the best level 1 hyper in the game. For one bar, it provides a shield barrier against all physical attacks, it negates all non-hyper projectiles, and it even protects Vergil from many level 1 hyper projectiles, such as Hyper Sentinel Force. Spiral Swords also leads to multiple mix-ups, deals chip damage, and generally turns the entire match over to Vergil for a while.
One option we considered was to address each of these points individually, but this is a difficult proposition. Additionally, there is no way to address the single-player game Spiral Swords creates outside of simply making it less available. To ensure Spiral Swords is still worth using, we allowed it one free shift change to either Blistering Swords or Sword Storm. This guarantees that the hyper is still roughly as useful overall while reducing its availability and duration when chained.
-Dimension Slash may no longer cross up.
A random full-screen hyper should not leave the opponent guessing which way to block. Getting hit by a cross-up Dimension Slash which is then X-Factor canceled into a full combo is one of the worst ways to lose in this game, and it is entirely undeserved.
-Helm Breaker can no longer be canceled into s.S.
SOMEONE WRITE THIS ONE FOR ME
-Invincibility frames on Devil Trigger removed.
We do not see why an already safe utility hyper, which is very strong, should also negate, even coincidentally, X-Factor cancels into fast invincible moves like Mighty Punish.
Assists: Rapid Slash, Rising Sun, Judgment Cut (Tracking)
Judgment Cut is the only assist we changed for Vergil. The assist is nigh useless right now, maybe even dangerous to the player using it in many cases. We gave the move tracking to ensure it has some kind of use. We considered adding Lunar Phase as a pinning assist, but decided that it would be too strong in Devil Trigger, and its wonky bottom hitbox would create false blockstrings that players cannot react to or understand until they are hit with a cross-up.
Tron Bonne:
+j.H returned to Vanilla status.
The nerf to Tron Bonnes j.H from Vanilla Ultimate was a head-scratcher. She was already easy to anti-air, and the cross-up is not ambiguous like so many other moves are. Instead, she gained an additional level of difficulty converting off of her go-to approach option. This was a needless change.
+Servbot Takeout can be X-Factor canceled on whiff.
This is potentially the only hyper in the game that cannot be X-Factor canceled on whiff. This was changed for parity purposes.
+Gustaff Fire is now upper body invincible.
Gustaff Fire was immensely popular in Vanilla Marvel. It was a slightly weaker Double Lariat that was on a better character. Then Tron Bonne was nerfed as both a point character and as an assist option, rendering her completely unused outside of Al_Rikir and Abegen, both who receive applause for their devotion, but not results. Vanilla Gustaff Fire was too strong, but it should still be useful, especially on point. Tron Bonne has no good anti-air options, and she tends to get pummeled when someone gets in on her, unlike the other heavies, who have armor options. The upper body invincibility will force aerial characters to approach her with respect instead of being a free kill.
+Servbot Launcher recovery reduced to 20; assist version fires all 3 Servbots one after another.
We considered making Servbot Launcher a tracking assist, but decided that launching all three Servbots would open some unique keepaway options while all three little bots slowly fall down, creating a kind of mid-screen projectile wall. The recovery was reduced to allow Tron Bonne to more effectively use Servbot Launcher for mid-screen zoning on point.
+Beacon Bomb recovery reduced to 10 frames; if the Beacon Bomb hits an assist, a servbot is now launched and attached to the assist character.
Too many Beacon Bombs are blocked by an assists body. We would like to see players nervous to call an assist when Tron Bonne is around because of this move. It already has a considerable startup, and we felt it was too much to give it large recovery as well. Right now, Tron Bonne dies when the move whiffs, when she should really only be at a disadvantage for trying, like Spencer and Spider-man are with their wipe and web grabs.
+Servbot Takeout sends servbots onto the screen regardless of whether the beacon hit.
This provides Tron Bonne with interesting DHC options. She can now send the bots onto the screen, DHC to another character, and then use the pin from the bots as a mix-up opportunity. A very long one, at that! This also makes Servbot Takeout a potential chipping option; as an opponent is landing from a superjump, Servbot Takeout so the Servbots hit upon landing.
+Bandit Boulder now travels full screen; hitstun increased to allow better solo combos off of throws; dash and special cancelable..
Bandit Boulder never seems to hit anything. Its range is juts too short! The additional comboability is important for ensuring she can always convert off of throws, and it may open up more damaging options than Bonne Strike. The move being dash and special cancelable make it a viable approach option (Bandit Boulder, dash cancel, jump cancel, air dash in) and open up more combo and zoning options (Bandit Boulder x Beacon Bomb or Servbot Launcher x3).
+Ground dash now attack and crouch cancelable.
A mobility improvement so Tron Bonne can do something besides air dash into danger all day.
+Shakedown Mixer now leads to full combos.
For three bars, it better. Not every opponent is Jay Viscant playing Dark Phoenix (kidding!).
+Minimum air dash height reduced considerably.
Tron Bonne really suffers from a lack of options, and none of her options being great. We have improved her point options, especially in the zoning and approach department, but her approach is still unsafe. Most characters can simply wait for her to air dash, and then anti-air her since her body is so big and high in the air. Reducing the minimum air dash height makes her approach harder to counter.
Assists: Gustaff Fire, Bonne Strike H (fully mashed), Servbot Launcher
The new Gustaff Fire is sure to see use, though not as strong as it was in Vanilla. Servbot Launcher fires all three Servbots to provide a unique zoning option, and Bonne Strike H adds another pinning assist option into the game.
Trish:
+Trick Hopscotch hitstun increased; now OTGs.
This allows Trish to combo off of air throws, which, for her health range, she truly needs, and improves her ability to convert off of stray aerial hits. We considered improving the projectiles speed, but decided that it would be too strong against certain rushdown characters.
+Flight startup reduced to 15 frames.
This is Trishs main move these days, and we have reduced the startup to improve her game flow. Trish players will not have to be as defensive before they fly as a result of this change.
+High Voltage creates a small vacuum effect to ensure more hits connect.
Landing High Voltage is often a depressing moment. The lightning bolts are inconsistent, and its not uncommon for opponents to fall out of the hyper entirely. This ensures that a hit earned stays earned.
+Duet Pain now hits OTG.
This is possibly the only level 3 hyper in the game that can be comboed into but never actually is. Trish has to sacrifice half of her combo just to land this move in Ultimate. It should be more flexible to improve her damage options when the meter is available.
+Low Voltage recovery reduced to 30 across the board; durability increased to 4 on each bolt.
Low Voltage is a very weak move right now. It has poor startup, recovery, and damage. While we respect that Trish, as a zoner, is more oriented toward keepaway, we wanted to offer her a little more than what she has for those poor rushdown matchups. It seems like an eternity before an opponent dies from Low Voltage chip right now.
+Sign Switch H now causes Sparda to home in on the opponent.
Trish has three Sign Switch options, but only two are useful. Sparda should be an essential tool in Trishs game, and while it is, this gives her new approach and chip options for launching a move with considerable startup, and then performing a follow-up which has no direct effect on the neutral.
+Round Trip durability increased to 8; no longer loses its hitbox after encountering any opposing projectile.
Round Trip is currently negated by nearly everything in the game even though the move has high startup. We increased its general staying power to ensure Trish gets her efforts worth.
+Untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
To allow post-ground throw combos.
+Trick Peekaboo causes a set amount of hitstun (60 frames); decreases by 10 frames for every use in a combo.
This will provide Trish with some new combo options, and a way to combo into Round Trip for some fancy team stuff.
Assists: Low Voltage H, Trick Peekaboo, Trick Hopscotch
We considered adding Round Trip, but its new durability, combined with its extended pinning, would create some truly miserable situations. Her current assists are solid as it is.
Viewtiful Joe:
+Red Hot Kick L and M hit OTG.
This allows Viewtiful Joe to get combos off of his air throws, something he desperately needs. His air throws have to be thoughtful, since his j.H is not spectacular like his j.S is, and we feel this should be rewarded. The OTG option also opens up new combo extension possibilities, and likely new ways to end combos into Viewtiful Godhand.
+Viewtiful Uppercut M (assist) now allows for full combos on crossover counter.
While this is a system-wide change, we also wanted to make note of it here because of how important it is for his game.
+Voomerang (all non-charged versions) no longer disappears when Viewtiful Joe is hit.
+Groovy Uppercut M is now +10 on hit.
This allows easier combos off of Groovy Uppercut M. Right now it is a tight link, which does not belong in this game on a basic hit confirm. Viewtiful Joe has enough Street Fighter links in him as it is!
+Voomerang (charged) changed disappear after the second hit; no longer lingers once its durability is gone.
There was a match where Dieminion reverse OCVed an opposing team with X-Factorless Viewtiful Joe simply because his opponent could not get out of charged Voomerang spam. We think the primary problem here is not charged Voomerang, but rather that the graphic hovers even after hits hitbox dies, which confuses players into not knowing when they can act, which makes it hard to take advantage of the gaps in Viewtiful Joes keepaway game.
*Shocking Pink glitch fixed.
A no-brainer. Infinites are a bad thing.
Assists: Shocking Pink, Viewtiful Uppercut M, Voomerang L (Charged)
We debated on whether to remove Shocking Pink in favor of Voomerang L (Uncharged), but decided to keep it since some players have put it to unique purpose, such as Royal Flush bouncing it off of M.O.D.O.K.s Shield Barrier. We suspect that Voomerang L (Charged) will get used on quite a few teams since it hits twice and has a nice gap between those hits to allow for tick throws and mix-ups.
Vergil:
*Round Trip glitch removed.
It should not exist, and it can decimate entire teams due to the extended pinning and chip it offers.
+Lunar Phase vertical hitbox increased slightly.
Characters can sometimes inexplicably fall out of Lunar Phase during Vergil combos, and we feel this should not happen. Consistency is important. The moves unreliability has caused most top players to cancel Lunar Phase into Dimension Slash mid-attack to ensure it does not drop.
+Rising Sun now causes the same hitstun as its point version when used as a crossover counter.
This ensures Rising Sun leads to combos when used as a crossover counter.
+Sword Storm projectiles may now be fired manually with an A+S input, as with Blistering Swords.
Whenever a player uses Sword Storm, everyone is excited to see the mix-ups that result from the words. Unfortunately, there is hardly time to perform more than one mix-up, which makes the move less than worthwhile for its cost outside of situations where Vergil is attempting to take out an opponents anchor, as raw tagging also removes the crown. Allowing the projectiles to be manually fired increases the moves utility.
-Rapid Slash is now -20 on block.
This is roughly how negative Rapid Slash should be on block for Vergil to be unable to safely attack with s.L after an X-Factor 3 Rapid Slash. We are fine with him comboing off of Rapid Slash, but a failed mix-up should not also provide free pressure.
-Spiral Swords is now a level 2; vertical hitbox decreased slightly; may shift to one other sword formation free of cost.
Spiral Swords is undisputedly the best level 1 hyper in the game. For one bar, it provides a shield barrier against all physical attacks, it negates all non-hyper projectiles, and it even protects Vergil from many level 1 hyper projectiles, such as Hyper Sentinel Force. Spiral Swords also leads to multiple mix-ups, deals chip damage, and generally turns the entire match over to Vergil for a while.
One option we considered was to address each of these points individually, but this is a difficult proposition. Additionally, there is no way to address the single-player game Spiral Swords creates outside of simply making it less available. To ensure Spiral Swords is still worth using, we allowed it one free shift change to either Blistering Swords or Sword Storm. This guarantees that the hyper is still roughly as useful overall while reducing its availability and duration when chained.
-Dimension Slash may no longer cross up.
A random full-screen hyper should not leave the opponent guessing which way to block. Getting hit by a cross-up Dimension Slash which is then X-Factor canceled into a full combo is one of the worst ways to lose in this game, and it is entirely undeserved.
-Helm Breaker can no longer be canceled into s.S.
SOMEONE WRITE THIS ONE FOR ME
-Invincibility frames on Devil Trigger removed.
We do not see why an already safe utility hyper, which is very strong, should also negate, even coincidentally, X-Factor cancels into fast invincible moves like Mighty Punish.
Assists: Rapid Slash, Rising Sun, Judgment Cut (Tracking)
Judgment Cut is the only assist we changed for Vergil. The assist is nigh useless right now, maybe even dangerous to the player using it in many cases. We gave the move tracking to ensure it has some kind of use. We considered adding Lunar Phase as a pinning assist, but decided that it would be too strong in Devil Trigger, and its wonky bottom hitbox would create false blockstrings that players cannot react to or understand until they are hit with a cross-up.
Tron Bonne:
+j.H returned to Vanilla status.
The nerf to Tron Bonnes j.H from Vanilla Ultimate was a head-scratcher. She was already easy to anti-air, and the cross-up is not ambiguous like so many other moves are. Instead, she gained an additional level of difficulty converting off of her go-to approach option. This was a needless change.
+Servbot Takeout can be X-Factor canceled on whiff.
This is potentially the only hyper in the game that cannot be X-Factor canceled on whiff. This was changed for parity purposes.
+Gustaff Fire is now upper body invincible.
Gustaff Fire was immensely popular in Vanilla Marvel. It was a slightly weaker Double Lariat that was on a better character. Then Tron Bonne was nerfed as both a point character and as an assist option, rendering her completely unused outside of Al_Rikir and Abegen, both who receive applause for their devotion, but not results. Vanilla Gustaff Fire was too strong, but it should still be useful, especially on point. Tron Bonne has no good anti-air options, and she tends to get pummeled when someone gets in on her, unlike the other heavies, who have armor options. The upper body invincibility will force aerial characters to approach her with respect instead of being a free kill.
+Servbot Launcher recovery reduced to 20; assist version fires all 3 Servbots one after another.
We considered making Servbot Launcher a tracking assist, but decided that launching all three Servbots would open some unique keepaway options while all three little bots slowly fall down, creating a kind of mid-screen projectile wall. The recovery was reduced to allow Tron Bonne to more effectively use Servbot Launcher for mid-screen zoning on point.
+Beacon Bomb recovery reduced to 10 frames; if the Beacon Bomb hits an assist, a servbot is now launched and attached to the assist character.
Too many Beacon Bombs are blocked by an assists body. We would like to see players nervous to call an assist when Tron Bonne is around because of this move. It already has a considerable startup, and we felt it was too much to give it large recovery as well. Right now, Tron Bonne dies when the move whiffs, when she should really only be at a disadvantage for trying, like Spencer and Spider-man are with their wipe and web grabs.
+Servbot Takeout sends servbots onto the screen regardless of whether the beacon hit.
This provides Tron Bonne with interesting DHC options. She can now send the bots onto the screen, DHC to another character, and then use the pin from the bots as a mix-up opportunity. A very long one, at that! This also makes Servbot Takeout a potential chipping option; as an opponent is landing from a superjump, Servbot Takeout so the Servbots hit upon landing.
+Bandit Boulder now travels full screen; hitstun increased to allow better solo combos off of throws; dash and special cancelable..
Bandit Boulder never seems to hit anything. Its range is juts too short! The additional comboability is important for ensuring she can always convert off of throws, and it may open up more damaging options than Bonne Strike. The move being dash and special cancelable make it a viable approach option (Bandit Boulder, dash cancel, jump cancel, air dash in) and open up more combo and zoning options (Bandit Boulder x Beacon Bomb or Servbot Launcher x3).
+Ground dash now attack and crouch cancelable.
A mobility improvement so Tron Bonne can do something besides air dash into danger all day.
+Shakedown Mixer now leads to full combos.
For three bars, it better. Not every opponent is Jay Viscant playing Dark Phoenix (kidding!).
+Minimum air dash height reduced considerably.
Tron Bonne really suffers from a lack of options, and none of her options being great. We have improved her point options, especially in the zoning and approach department, but her approach is still unsafe. Most characters can simply wait for her to air dash, and then anti-air her since her body is so big and high in the air. Reducing the minimum air dash height makes her approach harder to counter.
Assists: Gustaff Fire, Bonne Strike H (fully mashed), Servbot Launcher
The new Gustaff Fire is sure to see use, though not as strong as it was in Vanilla. Servbot Launcher fires all three Servbots to provide a unique zoning option, and Bonne Strike H adds another pinning assist option into the game.
Trish:
+Trick Hopscotch hitstun increased; now OTGs.
This allows Trish to combo off of air throws, which, for her health range, she truly needs, and improves her ability to convert off of stray aerial hits. We considered improving the projectiles speed, but decided that it would be too strong against certain rushdown characters.
+Flight startup reduced to 15 frames.
This is Trishs main move these days, and we have reduced the startup to improve her game flow. Trish players will not have to be as defensive before they fly as a result of this change.
+High Voltage creates a small vacuum effect to ensure more hits connect.
Landing High Voltage is often a depressing moment. The lightning bolts are inconsistent, and its not uncommon for opponents to fall out of the hyper entirely. This ensures that a hit earned stays earned.
+Duet Pain now hits OTG.
This is possibly the only level 3 hyper in the game that can be comboed into but never actually is. Trish has to sacrifice half of her combo just to land this move in Ultimate. It should be more flexible to improve her damage options when the meter is available.
+Low Voltage recovery reduced to 30 across the board; durability increased to 4 on each bolt.
Low Voltage is a very weak move right now. It has poor startup, recovery, and damage. While we respect that Trish, as a zoner, is more oriented toward keepaway, we wanted to offer her a little more than what she has for those poor rushdown matchups. It seems like an eternity before an opponent dies from Low Voltage chip right now.
+Sign Switch H now causes Sparda to home in on the opponent.
Trish has three Sign Switch options, but only two are useful. Sparda should be an essential tool in Trishs game, and while it is, this gives her new approach and chip options for launching a move with considerable startup, and then performing a follow-up which has no direct effect on the neutral.
+Round Trip durability increased to 8; no longer loses its hitbox after encountering any opposing projectile.
Round Trip is currently negated by nearly everything in the game even though the move has high startup. We increased its general staying power to ensure Trish gets her efforts worth.
+Untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
To allow post-ground throw combos.
+Trick Peekaboo causes a set amount of hitstun (60 frames); decreases by 10 frames for every use in a combo.
This will provide Trish with some new combo options, and a way to combo into Round Trip for some fancy team stuff.
Assists: Low Voltage H, Trick Peekaboo, Trick Hopscotch
We considered adding Round Trip, but its new durability, combined with its extended pinning, would create some truly miserable situations. Her current assists are solid as it is.
Typo.
Helm Breaker is one of the most abusable moves in the game and it's mostly because of its safe follow ups. There is almost no reason why Vergil should be allowed to cancel his Helm Breaker into a launcher especially when that launcher is also cancelable into st.H and then into a safe special like Judgment Cut. There are times when Vergil can be punished by chicken block for his Helm Breaker but that can be negated by canceling into st.S. Of course you can punish the st.S cancel by push blocking the Helm Breaker in advance but again... what if he didn't cancel into st.S? This just leads into an undeserved mix up after Helm Breaker where even if you use the Helm Breaker improperly you can make the opponent guess as to what follow up you will do... completely avoiding being punished. Even with removing this ability Vergil will still have the ability to cancel his Helm Breaker into other specials but all of those are punishable if he does the Helm Breaker against a chicken blocking opponent.
It should be noted that while the invincibility is being returned to Vanilla status... the move still retains the post hit scaling as in Ultimate and not the post hit scaling of Vanilla.
You didn't add anything to this but this change is just for parity sake. Most characters with slow moving projectiles have projectiles that remain active even if they are hit.
Karsticles
Member
Thanks Dahbomb. I'm pooped for tonight. You're welcome to write a few if you feel ambitious. You should probably handle Iron Man, at least.
kevo_huevo
Member
Nova's float glitch after airthrow still in play?