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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!

K

Karsticles

Member
Frantic said:
I played a guy that I felt like being the world's biggest asshole to, for some reason. I dunno why, but something about the guy was pissing me off.

Still, landing Magneto's grab, cr.L > grab > cr.L > airgrab was the funniest shit I've done in a while. I was in his head, man. Straight in his head.

This, basically. Making it a straight projectile as is wouldn't help him much. It's pretty much worthless in a projectile fight, and it's not going to be more useful as a 'get in' projectile either since it won't absorb physical attacks. If you're dashing in behind it and you get hit as you're going in, you're ultimately just going to trade with whatever hit you and the situation may ultimately be in your opponent's favor(if they hit you with something that has a lot of hitstun or causes a soft-knockdown). If Formation A1 took the hit, Strider would still be at the advantage since any physical attack that hits Formation A1 is counted as a 'whiff' - so if they threw out something like Shield Skills, they're going to be recovering for a while. If you're going to remove that property, there needs to be something done to Formation A1 as otherwise it's a pretty subpar projectile that's only good against characters with no projectiles of their own.
Click to expand...
Do the Formation A1 deaths from normals completely negate the normal, then? That was not my understanding of the move. If that is the case, maybe we should remove the change.
 
F

Frantic

Member
Karsticles said:
Do the Formation A1 deaths from normals completely negate the normal, then? That was not my understanding of the move. If that is the case, maybe we should remove the change.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's the same as Trish's Peekaboo. The normal(and I think even physical specials?) becomes completely negated, and no longer have any hitbox if there's additional active frames(although I'm not sure about multi-hit normals). Same as with Formation A2.

Some moves that negate projectiles can still hit Strider if the hitbox reaches Strider on the same frame as it reaches Formation A1/A2(you'll see it happen with Dante's Stinger and Vergil's s.H), but they're negated if they don't(you'll only really see it happen with Shield Skills, though).

And, speaking of negating projectiles... we should make Gram negate projectiles!
 
S

Sigmaah

Member
We nerfing raw hyper damage? No one should get 350K+ for a raw random mashed hyper.

Unless for big bodies, like Thor and sentinel for example. They deserve that, not fucking wolverine.
 
O

onionfrog

Member
Sigmaah said:
We nerfing raw hyper damage? No one should get 350K+ for a raw random mashed hyper.

Unless for big bodies, like Thor and sentinel for example. They deserve that, not fucking wolverine.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Characters with stupidly high mashed hyper damage are being 'normalized'. (Including fatal claw)
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Sigmaah said:
We nerfing raw hyper damage? No one should get 350K+ for a raw random mashed hyper.

Unless for big bodies, like Thor and sentinel for example. They deserve that, not fucking wolverine.
Click to expand...
300K+ damage for raw hyper is standard in the game.

What we are nerfing though is high damage of hypers after full combos. We nerfed Wolverine, Sentinel and Skrull in that department. I really feel we should've done that for Storm's Hailstorm too especially for parity reasons.
 
S

Sigmaah

Member
Dahbomb said:
300K+ damage for raw hyper is standard in the game.

What we are nerfing though is high damage of hypers after full combos. We nerfed Wolverine, Sentinel and Skrull in that department. I really feel we should've done that for Storm's Hailstorm too especially for parity reasons.
Click to expand...

That's swag but could we make 300K+ raw hypers not the standard? raw hypers shouldn't do that much damage at all, shit is absurd as fuck.

Also, Hawkeye/Doom/Strider is fun as fuck.

Fucking Ouro needs to be invincible until it comes out.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Sigmaah said:
That's swag but could we make 300K+ raw hypers not the standard? raw hypers shouldn't do that much damage at all, shit is absurd as fuck.

Also, Hawkeye/Doom/Strider is fun as fuck.

Fucking Ouro needs to be invincible until it comes out.
Click to expand...
What hypers do more than 300K raw?

Also, with a universal health buff, we should not also be nerfing random hypers. Consider a character who has 1.5 millon due to our health buff. If we reduce Chaotic Flame damage to 250K, is it even worth spending the bar to punish?
 
S

Sigmaah

Member
Karsticles said:
What hypers do more than 300K raw?

Also, with a universal health buff, we should not also be nerfing random hypers. Consider a character who has 1.5 millon due to our health buff. If we reduce Chaotic Flame damage to 250K, is it even worth spending the bar to punish?
Click to expand...

250K is deff reasonable for a punish. A simple qcf+AA should not do so much damage. But I forgot y'all are adding the health buff. I only remember the changes to characters lol.

But if we're talking about the update without the health buff, raw hypers should do like 250K max for non big bodies.

Wolverines raw fatal claw is like 350K+ for example. Dorm deff reaches 300K+ as well.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Sigmaah said:
250K is deff reasonable for a punish. A simple qcf+AA should not do so much damage. But I forgot y'all are adding the health buff. I only remember the changes to characters lol.

But if we're talking about the update without the health buff, raw hypers should do like 250K max for non big bodies.

Wolverines raw fatal claw is like 350K+ for example. Dorm deff reaches 300K+ as well.
Click to expand...
Stop doing random unsafe shit at full screen IMO.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
I finished the last annotation save Strider, whom Frantic wants to handle. Here are the complete patch notes and annotations:

NOTES:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zolcw8bTvVsl8RKtgpFBhuGmWF3KehdUC1XJzN2HxXs

ANNOTATIONS:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-3fDxvOvPXaCOrS71_f_Nl0tGxnoa2wS-rqqI4BOGf8

What I would strongly appreciate is for forum regulars to comb through both of these documents and ensure they list all the same changes, and for committee members to ensure all of the changelists are up to date. My apologies for losing track of this stuff, but things got a bit hectic for me. Since I wrote a good 60 pages of annotations, I'm hoping others will help me out with shoring up these weaknesses of mine. :)

We are in the final stretch! If anyone has concerns about a character, bring them up now for discussion!

Edit: three more things:
1) BOOKMARK THIS SO I DONT HAVE TO POST IT AGAIN!
2) Feel free to suggest additional annotations. I have undoubtedly become tired, and some of those could use more content.
3) Ignore the text at the opening. Dahbomb provided feedback that I have not incorporated yet, but that I will in the near future.

onionfrog said:
I'm inclined to Agree.
:D
Click to expand...
Want to play a long set?
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
It should be noted that prior to UMVC3 most hypers did less than 300K raw. It's only because of the "mashing buff" that many hypers reached that high of a threshold.

I checked some hypers that I thought did more damage than normal and no surprise they do in fact do over 300K:

Akuma:

All his QCF hypers (fireballs and beam) do above 300K damage


Captain America:

Hyper Charging Star: 328K


Chun Li:

Kikosho: 340K


Dante:

Million Dollars: 301K


Haggar:

Rapid Fist: 396K


Hulk:

Gamma Cruch: 403K


Iron Man:

Proton Cannon: 326K


Magneto:

Magnetic Shockwave: 327K

Nova:

Super Nova: 300K
Gravimetric Blaster LVL2 and LVL3


Phoenix:

Phoenix Rage: 320K


Ryu:

Shinku Hadoken: 313K


Skrull:

Inferno: 340K


Storm:

Hailstorm: 338K
Lightning Storm: 344K


Sentinel:

Plasma Storm: 337K
HSF : 306K

Taskmaster:

Legion Arrow: 347K

Thor:

Mighty Thunder: 380K

Mighty Tornady: 380K


Trish:

Maximum Voltage: 323K


Wolverine:

Berserker Barrage X: 343K

Fatal Claw: 362K


This isn't the complete list of 300K damage hypers, pretty sure Dorm does that much too from Chaotic Flame. This isn't the problem really, the problem is when the hypers do near that much damage at the end of combos like Wolverine does. I think hyper scaling is as much to blame as raw hyper damage.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
@Dahbomb: only a handful of those are actually going to do anything as a random hyper. When was the last time someone got hit by a raw Fatal Claw or Mighty Thunder?

Sigmaah said:
That's not the point. The point is, no character should do 300K+ for a random raw hyper (besides big bodies). 250K max and that's it imo.
Click to expand...
How is it not the point? You can't get hit for 300K+ if you aren't doing unsafe things. Maybe you should stop trying to scrub it out with raw Ouroboros at full screen against characters who can punish it.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Karsticles said:
@Dahbomb: only a handful of those are actually going to do anything as a random hyper. When was the last time someone got hit by a raw Fatal Claw or Mighty Thunder?


How is it not the point? You can't get hit for 300K+ if you aren't doing unsafe things. Maybe you should stop trying to scrub it out with raw Ouroboros at full screen against characters who can punish it.
Click to expand...
Well Mighty Thunder is getting buffed in this patch so it will definitely get more usage as a "random hyper". I do agree that some of them you are not prone to hit randomly while others you may not get the full damage off of (like say a Shockwave close to the corner).

Personally 300K+ raw damage is fine its the 200K+ damage after a full combo that is a problem. We nerfed some of the ones that were a problem so its not a big deal anymore.


I am going to read through the annotations and going to write down grievances/problems/typos here. So a lot of stuff will be edited in.
 
S

Sigmaah

Member
Karsticles said:
How is it not the point? You can't get hit for 300K+ if you aren't doing unsafe things. Maybe you should stop trying to scrub it out with raw Ouroboros at full screen against characters who can punish it.
Click to expand...

Idc about getting punished for pressing buttons and shit. I'm not pressing buttons at full screen anyway, but if I push one or get a wrong input or lag, should I really get punished for so much damage because of that? No way imo. I have a problem that a level 1 hyper is nearing a level 3 hyper in damage. Punishing isn't the problem here, the damage from it is imo.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
@Dahbomb: would you PM me your post when you are done reading? That way I won't lose it in a sea of posts here.

Sigmaah said:
Idc about getting punished for pressing buttons and shit. I have a problem that a level 1 hyper is nearing a level 3 hyper in damage. Punishing isn't the problem here, the damage from it is imo.
Click to expand...
The question stands: how is the hyper doing this much damage if you aren't doing something to get hit by it? This is pretty basic here.
 
S

Sigmaah

Member
Karsticles said:
@Dahbomb: would you PM me your post when you are done reading? That way I won't lose it in a sea of posts here.


The question stands: how is the hyper doing this much damage if you aren't doing something to get hit by it? This is pretty basic here.
Click to expand...

It's pretty basic to understand that I'm saying a hyper shouldn't do that much damage for a raw LEVEL 1 hyper. Anyone can get hit by it for being dumb and it should do good damage but it shouldn't do 300K+ damage.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
It's not even hard to get a safe ouro activation! Do it when they're in blockstun from a robot animal or something... or use your fullscreen sword (gram H) to put them in blockstun. It's not like you don't have options.

@Karst- I appreciate all the hard work you've put into the patch annotations. I'll try to read through them ASAP.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Sigmaah said:
It's pretty basic to understand that I'm saying a hyper shouldn't do that much damage for a raw LEVEL 1 hyper. Anyone can get hit by it for being dumb and it should do good damage but it shouldn't do 300K+ damage.
Click to expand...
Except it doesn't do that much damage unless you are doing something unsafe! Yes, anyone can get hit by it for being dumb, just like you said. So stop being dumb! Or at least stop complaining about the consequences of you being dumb.

Zissou said:
@Karst- I appreciate all the hard work you've put into the patch annotations. I'll try to read through them ASAP.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I enjoyed writing them. I was hoping it would reach 100 pages, though. :(

No rush on reading through them. Quality reading is more important than quick reading, and there's a lot to go through.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I did a first pass through of the annotations and sent the PM.

Felicia is going to be a monster in this patch. She basically has a safe Berserker Slash like option now that she can self combo from and it can pass through projectiles. It's only balanced by the fact that its slower than a Berserker Slash.
 
S

Sigmaah

Member
Karsticles said:
Except it doesn't do that much damage unless you are doing something unsafe! Yes, anyone can get hit by it for being dumb, just like you said. So stop being dumb! Or at least stop complaining about the consequences of you being dumb.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't do that much damage regardless! A level 1 hyper shouldn't do near level 3 damage just for a punish, that's way to much damage for a level 1 to do!!!
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
The Mango Sentinel said:
If this Felicia ever happened....she'd be borderline broken.
Click to expand...
I was reading through all the characters annotations and was like:

"Yup that's broken. Yeah that character will be OP. New top tier confirmed. Oh yeah this character will be absurd too."

New Hsien Ko looks kinda absurd too, her dash game is kinda ridiculous. Every time she makes you block a normal its going to be a 50/50 thanks to her dash cancelable normals, dashes which are invincible.

Honestly its better to be too good then be too shit. Like its way easier to fix Zero than it is to make Ghost Rider a good character without making him dumb as fuck.
 
S

Sigmaah

Member
Dahbomb said:
I was reading through all the characters annotations and was like:

"Yup that's broken. Yeah that character will be OP. New top tier confirmed. Oh yeah this character will be absurd too."

New Hsien Ko looks kinda absurd too, her dash game is kinda ridiculous. Every time she makes you block a normal its going to be a 50/50 thanks to her dash cancelable normals, dashes which are invincible.

Honestly its better to be too good then be too shit. Like its way easier to fix Zero than it is to make Ghost Rider a good character without making him dumb as fuck.
Click to expand...

I love the idea of a new top tier! didn't you make a tier list for the new patch? I wanna see it again!
 
T

The Mango Sentinel

Member
Sigmaah said:
It shouldn't do that much damage regardless! A level 1 hyper shouldn't do near level 3 damage just for a punish, that's way to much damage for a level 1 to do!!!
Click to expand...

Nah...depends on the character. I think there's only one super in the game that irritates me because of damage and that's Inferno. Even then....I wouldn't change it.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Sigmaah said:
I love the idea of a new top tier! didn't you make a tier list for the new patch? I wanna see it again!
Click to expand...
Patch tier list

The characters outside the graph on the right are unknown potential character. Most of them went up (except Frank West) but don't exactly know how much up.

Magneto in this patch would be the best character free with Phoenix Wright being the worst. Dante would be a close #2.

All in all it would be a 10x better game than Ultimate. It would have OP and crazy shit but at least everyone would be on the fun and more importantly way more team synergies would be viable. You could literally random 3 characters and they would make a playable team because the chances are high that you would get characters with good assists.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Dahbomb said:
Patch tier list

The characters outside the graph on the right are unknown potential character. Most of them went up (except Frank West) but don't exactly know how much up.

Magneto in this patch would be the best character free with Phoenix Wright being the worst. Dante would be a close #2.

All in all it would be a 10x better game than Ultimate. It would have OP and crazy shit but at least everyone would be on the fun and more importantly way more team synergies would be viable. You could literally random 3 characters and they would make a playable team because the chances are high that you would get characters with good assists.
Click to expand...

Give Iron Fist that Air Dash I wanted instead of the double jump and watch him go up a tier ;)

Best Heroes and Heralds improvement ever.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
shaowebb said:
Give Iron Fist that Air Dash I wanted instead of the double jump and watch him go up a tier ;)

Best Heroes and Heralds improvement ever.
Click to expand...
Those changes we gave him are enough to bring him up two tiers.

From bottom 5 to solid Mid tier. In this patch version being mid tier means you are very strong all around, just harder to place on a team.
 
T

The Mango Sentinel

Member
Why are the inputs in this game so fucking weird at times? Why do dp motion supers take priority over all others? Why does tagging in after a super not always work? Why will i get a completely different input than what i actually pressed? Wtf is wrong with this game?!
 
K

Karsticles

Member
The Mango Sentinel said:
Why are the inputs in this game so fucking weird at times? Why do dp motion supers take priority over all others? Why does tagging in after a super not always work? Why will i get a completely different input than what i actually pressed? Wtf is wrong with this game?!
Click to expand...
Block, qcb, get a rdp move! So many Dormammu deaths...

And yeah, holding assist after a super is weird. When I do my DHC glitch into Stalking Flare for Firebrand unblockables, sometimes Firebrand doesn't swap back in.
 
T

The Mango Sentinel

Member
It's really weird and it's gotten me killed on quite a few occasions. I'll have very little health after I've killed someone with a super and I'm holding assist 1 or 2 to tag and it doesn't happen. But it still knows I'm pressing it because when you let go the assist comes out! HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOTHERFUCKER! And we both die .

I've definitely been victim to holding back and then doing qcb. At least that one makes sense though. The dp super taking priority over everything drives me fucking nuts.

Oh and I wish mystic stare took priority over mystic smash. I have to be so precise with that shit sometimes.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Holding back and then doing qcb to do an rdp is something that is unique to Marvel AFAIK (maybe Street Fighter IV, since it also has shitty input reading). In most fighting games, holding forward =/= tapping forward, so it isn't read as part of a dp motion. That's how it should be, too.
 
F

Frantic

Member
Here are Strider's annotations. Feel free to change anything about them if need be:

Strider:

-Vajra (assist) untechable knockdown time decreased slightly.
As an assist, Vajra is a homing hard-knockdown against any airborne characters that it connects against. When paired with a character using an OTG, there is a large window of opportunity to combo off it when it successfully hits. By reducing the untechable time, it requires more effort to combo off it, thus reducing its often mindless usage without dramatically reducing its actual usefulness.

+Legion travel time improved; each animal of Legion has 1 high durability point; piercing.
In its original form, Legion was a sub-par hyper lacking speed, durability and utility. By improving the travel time, it is more likely for Legion to reach an opponent before they recover from an untechable knockdown. By increasing its durability to high durability, it will put it on par with other hypers and prevent it from being beaten by normal projectiles such as beams. By giving it the piercing property, it will now properly pick up two characters in an untechable state instead of just one and potentially resulting in a punish on Strider if the point character is not the one who gets picked up.

+Hyper Damage scaling changed from 30% to 50%.
Strider's hyper damage scaling is among the lowest in the game, and combined with the nature of Legion, the damage he would get from using a bar is often times not worth it. By improving the damage scaling by 20%, its damage is nearly doubled giving Legion more use at the end of combos.

+Formation B(Shot) no longer has a time limit; vertical hitbox extended downward to hit smaller knocked down characters.
Formation B is one of Strider's primary tools that is hindered in part by it having a time limit. If not carefully managed, having it run out in crucial moments is par for the course. By removing the time limit, it allow Strider to focus on more carefully utilizing Formation B(Shot) instead of having to decide between using it and refreshing the time limit, or risk it running out when on the offensive. Additionally, a small number of the cast's hard knockdown state is low enough to the ground that Formation B(Shot) will pass over them. The hitbox was extended downwards to take care of that.

+df.H now cancelable into Formation B (Shot).
Strider's slide is a useful poking tool that has no combo potential without the use of select assists. In order to make it useable, without making it abusable, we have allowed him to cancel into Formation B(Shot). This puts more of a focus on maintaining Formation B in the neutral, while also giving his slide genuine use in the neutral.

+Minimum damage scaling on normals changed to 5%.
+Minimum damage scaling on specials changed to 10%.
Strider has the lowest damage scaling values in the game at 3% for normals and 7% for specials. With his naturally low base damage, this can result in often comically low damage output on sub-optimal confirms. By changing the damage scaling to an average level, it improves Strider's overall damage output a small amount without it becoming too high.
 
T

The Mango Sentinel

Member
Dante + Mystic Ray = do whatever the fuck you want

Too bad my Shuma is garbage. I mostly hop around and Mystic Smash and hope for a hit so I can start a combo. I really think I should change my order to Spidey/Dante/Shuma instead of Spidey/Shuma/Dante. But I'm enjoying j.S with Shuma since I will kill almost anyone as long as I have two bars.

I also need to master the yolo playstyle. I think too much...I need to just start pressing buttons :p
 
K

Karsticles

Member
The changelog and annotated changelog are updated. Dahbomb, thank you for catching all my mistakes - I got all mixed up with all the version changes we did. I did have everything updated in the main patch list, I just didn't carry everything over to the annotations. Bring up any actual character changes in here - no reason to PM that stuff.

Also, Dahbomb noticed that I forgot to annotate three characters - those are done now. Yay! We are at 93 pages, FYI.
 
O

onionfrog

Member
Karsticles said:
The changelog and annotated changelog are updated. Dahbomb, thank you for catching all my mistakes - I got all mixed up with all the version changes we did. I did have everything updated in the main patch list, I just didn't carry everything over to the annotations. Bring up any actual character changes in here - no reason to PM that stuff.

Also, Dahbomb noticed that I forgot to annotate three characters - those are done now. Yay! We are at 93 pages, FYI.
Click to expand...

Damn! That's a lot!
I'll try to read over it sometime fairly soon.

Vice said:
I may buy a PS3 soon. With next gen out lots of them are popping up on Craigslist.
Click to expand...
I may have to hit up my Craigslist and see about getting a cheap 360. It'd be nice to catch up on the exclusives I missed out on.
 
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