XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
So no glasses buff if I DHC? That's kinda lame. Do people really phantom dance at the start a lot, just to get the buff? Can't really say I've seen too many people do that.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
So no glasses buff if I DHC? That's kinda lame. Do people really phantom dance at the start a lot, just to get the buff? Can't really say I've seen too many people do that.
Its supposed to mean that you only get the buff if you actually hit with it. I think completion is the wrong word, more like the hyper has to actually connect with the opponent to get the benefit. Otherwise people would still get the benefit for throwing it out randomly even if it missed/gets blocked.
And you haven't seen ChrisG play Wesker? He does that at the start of every game. He's the one who popularized this strategy!
Karsticles
Member
Sure.
Karsticles
Member
You have to promise me at least a FT30. No ragequits this time.
No ragequits. But I'm not sure if I'll have enough time for a FT30.
Karsticles
Member
GGs. You started out so strong - what happened?
I was sad I didn't get to play more Ghost Rider. Now that I have a decent Doom, I don't feel helpless once Ghost Rider dies.
Good Games Karst. My wife called for me so I had to stop playing.
I liked:
1)The match where I just barely chipped out your sentinel with Hawkeye.
2) The match where you completely chipped the shit out of Strider with Dormammu. That was brutal dawg!
Karsticles
Member
Zissou or other Doom players: do you have a reference video for converting off of various things with Doom? I often catch players with Doom's f.H at the start of the match when they are jumping, and I can't convert off of it to save my life.
That kill on Sentinel blew my mind. I was certain Hyper Sentinel Force would go through the arrows.
That matchup is ridonculus.
I liked matches where my Sentinel did a little work. I have been practicing him in training mode. I had a few new things to show! Damn your up-backs...
That kill on Sentinel blew my mind. I was certain Hyper Sentinel Force would go through the arrows.
That matchup is ridonculus.The Mango Sentinel
Member
That matchup sucks, but I still think Doom vs Hawkeye is worse.
Karsticles
Member
I actually have some luck with the Doom vs. Hawkeye matchup through superjumping and lots of patience. I superjump, wait, and either tridash into j.M or just block. Often enough, one of those j.M's hit, and then the hurt is happening! 1v1, at least.
Sentinel...yeah, I just die.
I fold pretty hard under pressure. I did a lot better tonight than the last time we played though.
I think I might be beneficial to try a team with a decent alpha counter when you play that point doom team. It'd give me a way to get out of the constant doom + drones schenanigans instead of just blocking until I block wrong and die.
Karsticles
Member
Well, the first few matches you played smart and ran with Felicia sometimes. I think it served you well. Then you tended not to. Maybe you are being impatient?
Was an alpha counter the idea behind the Haggar team? That was kind of weird and unexpected. Spencer is a pretty bad matchup for Ghost Rider, too.
In one of the matches I beat out your opening gambit by running up and mashing s.L.
After that I thought it might be a good solution so I kept doing it... Only to get beaten out by Doom's option select f.H launcher a bunch of times.
Running away is probably a good option, but I was frustrated by the number of times that I'd hit doom with delta kick H and be unable to confirm a combo afterwards. (Which is odd because I know I'm usually able to convert off that against most other characters.. Maybe it was just "lol Online")
It also seemed like once I ran away, you kept me out pretty well with Drones + Photon Shot (or Plasma Beam)
No that wasn't the idea behind it, but now that you mention it that would work.
That was actually my original team from the first week of Vanilla. (Albeit with no actual tech developed for it since I didn't know how to play the game then AT ALL.I didn't even know how to use OTG assists then)
I like point Haggar on some other teams though. Like Haggar/Tron/Sentinel, that one's fun although my Tron is not so great.
..
It'd be nice if this game had replay mode.
Karsticles
Member
The match you won with s.L confused me. I was trying not to mash too hard and ended up not mashing hard enough - lol.
Going back to old teams is fun. Fun fact: Sentinel/Dormammu/Doom was my Vanilla launch team! I hated playing Doom, though, and I felt like drones were holding back my growth as a player. Fast forward to now, and Doom is a blast because I have the skills to control him effectively, and my Dormammu is sharp enough that drones aren't really a problem.
Another fun fact: when Dormammu teleports, Sentinel's drones also teleport forward. Try calling Sentinel Force + Dormammu teleport from full screen, and the drones basically appear right behind the opponent. Teleporting drones! It catches a lot of people off guard, and I saw it get you a few times as well.
Going back to old teams is fun. Fun fact: Sentinel/Dormammu/Doom was my Vanilla launch team! I hated playing Doom, though, and I felt like drones were holding back my growth as a player. Fast forward to now, and Doom is a blast because I have the skills to control him effectively, and my Dormammu is sharp enough that drones aren't really a problem.
Another fun fact: when Dormammu teleports, Sentinel's drones also teleport forward. Try calling Sentinel Force + Dormammu teleport from full screen, and the drones basically appear right behind the opponent. Teleporting drones! It catches a lot of people off guard, and I saw it get you a few times as well.
It would be really great if we had replay. I'd love to be able to compare footage of where I'm at now to this time last year or the beginning of vanilla.
Also to have a record of the sort of horrible team composition I used back then! OTG assists and Anchor Wesker for everyone! Hahaha
What! Oh man that's nuts. I'll have to try this for myself in training mode tomorrow.
I couldn't block those dark matter cross ups to save my life either!
Karsticles
Member
I pretty much always teleport for the cross-up unless my opponent blocks 2 in a row. Then I respect that player's blocking ability and start mixing in the other two teleports. ;-)
Really though, don't block Dark Matter cross-ups. Jump over Dark Matter instead. You can do this 99% of the time, but no one bothers to for some reason. Skip the mix-up!
I still remember how I used to play. Scrubby as fuck at the start. I did nothing but call drones + spam projectiles with Dormammu. If someone got in on me I was completely free, and I couldn't move with him at all. The idea of Dormammu rushdown was a myth at the time. I remember Haunts even telling me I was silly when I suggested that a good Dormammu player should rush with him in some matchups instead of playing keepaway. Then MastaCJ hit the scene, and people were like "omg rushdown Dormammu is so good!" I learned how to rush primarily from CJ's gameplan.
I have tried so many team compositions that in any other game I would have quit by now. I think this team is probably as good as it gets - I ran through all possible combinations, and nothing else lets me play Dormammu and Doom with this much efficacy. I also used to talk shit about drones for Dormammu, and now I'd place it in his top 10 assists for sure. I'd probably go...
1) Hidden Missiles
2) Plasma Beam
3) EMD
4) Double Lariat
5) Sentinel Force
So, the two best Dormammu players have him paired with 2 of these top 5 assists.
The next 5 are probably:
6) Mystic Ray
7) Jam Session
8) Rapid Slash
9) Bolts of Ballthak
10) Mighty Smash
Then Dark Harmonizer, Gamma Charge AA, Unibeam, and Rising Fang...maybe TK Overdrive as a distant 15th.
Nothing else is worth mentioning. Dormammu should not be on teams that don't have two of these assists.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I really think Magneto/Dormammu/Shuma could be good.
Sorcerer Supreme
Member
Could anyone tell me what the easiest Doom infinite is with a good video tutorial?
If I understand you correctly, you can just super jump straight up, j.M, fwd.H footdive, air dash cancel down forward, another j.M as you fall and then relaunch and combo as normal: video. If I misunderstood, please let me know! What else are you having trouble converting off of? I feel one of Doom's greatest strengths is the ability to convert off of practically everything.
Also, I am against the Chris gunfire M change. It's basically a medium beam and reducing it's start-up would make it a bit ridiculous- it'd be like if Magneto's medium disruptor was even/plus on block instead of -21. Doom's medium plasma beam is similar on block but has over 20 frames of start-up like gunfire M currently has. I think it's perfectly fine as-is.
In addition to air to air conversions for Doom, j.L is your friend, seriously. Makes it tons easier to then transition to some j.Ms, forward foot dive, and then eventually j.S foot dive to continue the actual combo.
Also if you hit with foward H foot dive and you're too low to the ground , I find it easier to just dash down/dash down forward, then s.L to convert.
EDIT: Also anyone up for late night Marvel matches?
Also if you hit with foward H foot dive and you're too low to the ground , I find it easier to just dash down/dash down forward, then s.L to convert.
EDIT: Also anyone up for late night Marvel matches?
Hmm. I didn't think it was possible to just jump over it. I'll have to try this in training mode.
Hahaha.
I don't know what I was thinking with Spencer/Haggar/Akuma...
(In vanilla anyways, now it seems ok)
Back then my preferred combo with spencer was LMHS j.qcf M qcf M. lol
I don't even know why I had haggar on the team aside from Lariat. I didn't learn any real combos with him until he got the OTG drop kick in Ultimate.
Akuma was obviously there for Tatsu and XF3 comebacks.
I remember raging at Sentinel back then too. How ridiculous!
MiniBossBattle
Member
Am I really going to buy another copy of UMvC3? Its on sale for the the digital version on the Vita.
Frantic- after a Dante ground throw (or an air throw made at a height with no possible follow-up outside of air guns), what mix-ups do you do with Dante/Strider to try and catch them as they get back up? I've been at a loss to find anything spectacular and I figure you've got some good stuff cooked up! All I've been doing is wave dashing to follow the tech roll and hitting with a meaty normal on their wake-up while calling vajra and then going for teleport and/or box dash m/h shenanigans as Strider hits. I was trying stuff with hysteric, multilock, etc., but it all seems too slow to catch them before they get up and just jump to avoid the situation altogether.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Off of a normal throw I call Strider and do a meaty Drive and cancel into Devil Trigger to go for another mixup with double air dashes. If I have no meter, then I wave dash and call Strider, teleport, and air dash back to the original side (while using H, just in case of air grab). People always wanna upback, so Strider will usually catch them. And if they do try to air grab and they mistime it then they will get hit by Vajra. It's the same strategy I use as Felicia. People are too scared to get hit by Vajra, so they press nothing and get grabbed, or they are mashing H to not get grabbed and end up getting hit by Vajra.
As for air grabs....sorry, nothing good. I just try to predict which way they are gonna roll and either Reverb Shock + Vajra, or Jam Session + Vajra. Sometimes I'll just do a meaty H and do the same teleport shenanigans I described above
Hopefully Frantic has something good for both situations.
Karsticles
Member
The Chris change is actually supposed to be Gun Fire L, not Gun Fire M - my bad. I get them mixed up.
"God's Beard!"
Member
You'll need it if you wanna lend me your PS3 so I can body Honzo ^_^
Karsticles
Member
Phoenix:
*Multiple Dark Phoenix characters are now distinguishable on-screen.
This is a must. In the rare moment two Dark Phoenix players are active at the same time, neither player is able to keep track of the match because the characters look identical. We leave the details to Capcom, but this could just be a simple recoloring of the flame wings and feathers that emanate from Dark Phoenix.
+Dark Phoenix health drain rate reduced.
Dark Phoenix, without X-Factor, is not worth 5 bars of meter. In a 1 on 1 match, she is very strong, but is too easily beaten by hail mary attacks. With X-Factors damage getting toned down in our patch, and character health increasing, Dark Phoenix is not going to be able to plow through teams like she currently can. We fully expect that Dark Phoenix will only be able to take out two characters before running out of X-Factor with our current bonuses. As a result, we have buffed her in certain areas to ensure that she is more competent as a character outside of X-Factor. The health drain reduction is one of these changes, to ensure she is not desperate to approach constantly once X-Factor wears off.
+Dark Phoenix feathers now travel 15% farther.
Dark Phoenixs feathers are just barely too short to make use of them for solo crossups in heated match moments. By slightly increasing their travel distance, she will have more options to open players up as the dedicated comeback character she is. Approaches like j.S x Teleport M will be more effective.
+TK Shot (air) no longer makes Phoenix prone until she lands.
We full acknowledge that TK Shot H spam in Vanilla was overpowered. A player could sit at the top of the screen throwing fireballs, and a good number of characters in the games cast are not able to do anything about it. However, this aspect of Phoenix was toned down too much in Ultimate, and now it is not worthwhile for her to do anything beyond tridashing into j.H or j.S, since the rest of her moveset is unsafe.
Ultimate is a very different game from Vanilla, and many characters have strong anti-air options. In our patch, we added even more strong anti-air options, which ensures that the Vanilla fireball spam that came to be known as salty balls will not happen again. Of course, this change should be taken in tandem with the next one
+Only one TK Shot of each kind may be performed per jump unless in flight (as with Trishs traps).
To absolutely ensure that TK Shot H spam is not possible, we have limited Phoenix to one TK Shot of each kind per jump. So, she can throw a TK Shot H and then try to use it for cover to land, or a TK Shot L and go for a teleport mix-up. We think this is a more fair way to balance her potentially absurd fireball game, as flight take ensures players have an opportunity to breach a gap in the projectile hail.
+New Hyper: Overload; Phoenix loses all health immediately; requires 5 bars, rdp.AA; ground only.
Dark Phoenix has become an increasingly marginalized character throughout Ultimate, to the point where her primary users only stick to her for the sake of character loyalty. It is entirely absurd that a character could take 5 bars to fully activate her power, and then she essentially dies against unblockable setups. In the present tournament scene, most players do not even have anti-Dark Phoenix tech because she has faded in usefulness partially for this reason (the other being access to two new extremely strong anchors who do not require meter dedication at all: Vergil and Strider).
It would be unrealistic to remove every single anti-Dark Phoenix tech in the game, and nor would we want to. We do understand that these setups are difficult to pull off, and players should have some opportunity to counter Dark Phoenix. We decided to give Phoenix this hyper as a means for Phoenix players to make the ultimate gamble: they can sacrifice their character for a guaranteed Dark Phoenix entry.
+Flight startup reduced to 14 frames.
This is part of our goal to improve game flow flight startups were improved across the board for the vast majority of characters to reduce the time a character will jump, air dash up, fly, and then tridash around. Strong players rarely fly when it is unsafe, and this just makes the transition period smaller. It also helps provide stronger mix-ups for Dark Phoenix, such as her j.S, fly, j.S against cornered opponents.
+f.M startup reduced to 19 frames.
Phoenix is one of two teleporters who cannot cross up opponents in corners. She is one of the very few characters whom one would prefer to be in the corner against instead of midscreen. Her best method for opening players up is her f.M overhead, but it is highly visualized and not particularly fast. The fastest overhead in the game belongs to Viewtiful Joe; his f.M overhead has a rocket fast 13 frame startup, and its completely impossible to tell whether he is performing an overhead from a visual standpoint. Phoenix is a weak character whom players often try to random out at close range, which makes her overhead even weaker in comparison to other characters with the same asset. We felt the startup time could benefit from a small startup reduction to help her open up cornered opponents.
Assists: TK Overdrive H, TK Shot H, TK Trap L
TK Trap H is an entirely useless assist, while TK Trap could be potentially useful on some keepaway teams. TK Shot L is likewise useless, as the projectile can generally be ducked under. Most Phoenix players chose TK Overdrive H for its priority, projectile negation, and excellent crossup potential when paired with a teleporter. We switched her other assists to try and provide new and interesting options for Phoenix teams. With the universal health boost, players may feel more inclined to call her as an assist than before.
*Multiple Dark Phoenix characters are now distinguishable on-screen.
This is a must. In the rare moment two Dark Phoenix players are active at the same time, neither player is able to keep track of the match because the characters look identical. We leave the details to Capcom, but this could just be a simple recoloring of the flame wings and feathers that emanate from Dark Phoenix.
+Dark Phoenix health drain rate reduced.
Dark Phoenix, without X-Factor, is not worth 5 bars of meter. In a 1 on 1 match, she is very strong, but is too easily beaten by hail mary attacks. With X-Factors damage getting toned down in our patch, and character health increasing, Dark Phoenix is not going to be able to plow through teams like she currently can. We fully expect that Dark Phoenix will only be able to take out two characters before running out of X-Factor with our current bonuses. As a result, we have buffed her in certain areas to ensure that she is more competent as a character outside of X-Factor. The health drain reduction is one of these changes, to ensure she is not desperate to approach constantly once X-Factor wears off.
+Dark Phoenix feathers now travel 15% farther.
Dark Phoenixs feathers are just barely too short to make use of them for solo crossups in heated match moments. By slightly increasing their travel distance, she will have more options to open players up as the dedicated comeback character she is. Approaches like j.S x Teleport M will be more effective.
+TK Shot (air) no longer makes Phoenix prone until she lands.
We full acknowledge that TK Shot H spam in Vanilla was overpowered. A player could sit at the top of the screen throwing fireballs, and a good number of characters in the games cast are not able to do anything about it. However, this aspect of Phoenix was toned down too much in Ultimate, and now it is not worthwhile for her to do anything beyond tridashing into j.H or j.S, since the rest of her moveset is unsafe.
Ultimate is a very different game from Vanilla, and many characters have strong anti-air options. In our patch, we added even more strong anti-air options, which ensures that the Vanilla fireball spam that came to be known as salty balls will not happen again. Of course, this change should be taken in tandem with the next one
+Only one TK Shot of each kind may be performed per jump unless in flight (as with Trishs traps).
To absolutely ensure that TK Shot H spam is not possible, we have limited Phoenix to one TK Shot of each kind per jump. So, she can throw a TK Shot H and then try to use it for cover to land, or a TK Shot L and go for a teleport mix-up. We think this is a more fair way to balance her potentially absurd fireball game, as flight take ensures players have an opportunity to breach a gap in the projectile hail.
+New Hyper: Overload; Phoenix loses all health immediately; requires 5 bars, rdp.AA; ground only.
Dark Phoenix has become an increasingly marginalized character throughout Ultimate, to the point where her primary users only stick to her for the sake of character loyalty. It is entirely absurd that a character could take 5 bars to fully activate her power, and then she essentially dies against unblockable setups. In the present tournament scene, most players do not even have anti-Dark Phoenix tech because she has faded in usefulness partially for this reason (the other being access to two new extremely strong anchors who do not require meter dedication at all: Vergil and Strider).
It would be unrealistic to remove every single anti-Dark Phoenix tech in the game, and nor would we want to. We do understand that these setups are difficult to pull off, and players should have some opportunity to counter Dark Phoenix. We decided to give Phoenix this hyper as a means for Phoenix players to make the ultimate gamble: they can sacrifice their character for a guaranteed Dark Phoenix entry.
+Flight startup reduced to 14 frames.
This is part of our goal to improve game flow flight startups were improved across the board for the vast majority of characters to reduce the time a character will jump, air dash up, fly, and then tridash around. Strong players rarely fly when it is unsafe, and this just makes the transition period smaller. It also helps provide stronger mix-ups for Dark Phoenix, such as her j.S, fly, j.S against cornered opponents.
+f.M startup reduced to 19 frames.
Phoenix is one of two teleporters who cannot cross up opponents in corners. She is one of the very few characters whom one would prefer to be in the corner against instead of midscreen. Her best method for opening players up is her f.M overhead, but it is highly visualized and not particularly fast. The fastest overhead in the game belongs to Viewtiful Joe; his f.M overhead has a rocket fast 13 frame startup, and its completely impossible to tell whether he is performing an overhead from a visual standpoint. Phoenix is a weak character whom players often try to random out at close range, which makes her overhead even weaker in comparison to other characters with the same asset. We felt the startup time could benefit from a small startup reduction to help her open up cornered opponents.
Assists: TK Overdrive H, TK Shot H, TK Trap L
TK Trap H is an entirely useless assist, while TK Trap could be potentially useful on some keepaway teams. TK Shot L is likewise useless, as the projectile can generally be ducked under. Most Phoenix players chose TK Overdrive H for its priority, projectile negation, and excellent crossup potential when paired with a teleporter. We switched her other assists to try and provide new and interesting options for Phoenix teams. With the universal health boost, players may feel more inclined to call her as an assist than before.
LOL what?
Looks good.
I think Morrigan is still really good without missiles.
I agree with this.
Karsticles
Member
Jill:
+Arrow Kick travels farther; air OK; ground version can now be canceled into Feral Crouch on hit.
Jill has no real aerial mobility, and she has no surprise moves that players have to watch out for like Wolverine has. Arrow Kick is safe on block, but is slow-ish to come out while not covering much ground. It also cannot lead into full combos on hit, which makes the move have even more questionable utility. We improved it in these areas to give Jill a better surprise approach method and improve her assist options.
+Machine Gun Spray damage increased to 20,000 per bullet (22 bullets fire).
Machine Gun Spray does pitiful damage. We recall a recent video where a Jill player used 5 bars of Machine Gun Spray spam against a Taskmaster player with a sliver of health left, and still Taskmaster remained standing. Machine Gun Spray is not a particularly damaging hyper when comboed into, so we are confident that improving its damage significantly will not turn Jill into an unstoppable destroyer.
+Mad Beast is now a level 1; Mad Beast no longer allows meter to be built; startup changed to 4+1.
Mad Beast has stiff competition against Fatal Mutation as the worst level 3 hyper in the game. Yes, it can be used in combination with X-Factor level 3 to chip opponents out, but that is a very minor use for a level 3 hyper. Simply put, we do not think Mad Beast can be made into a hyper which is worth 3 bars of meter. A fellow utility hyper, Ouroboros, provides full-screen control, multiple mix-up opportunities, and does not remove the users ability to block. Too much would need to change for Mad Beast to become viable, and it would likely not look like Mad Beast anymore.
Instead, we decided to make Mad Beast a level 1, and balance it around this change. We are still not entirely sure whether Mad Beast will be used often by Jill players, but it will definitely not be used less!
+Double Knee Drop startup reduced by 5 frames across the board.
This change was made to assist in Jills aerial game. While we do not think Double Knee Drop should become a dependable dive kick, right now it feels entirely useless in the neutral outside of her double overheads, which this change will improve as well.
+Position Change is now +6 on hit.
Position Change is a command grab with a 1-frame link needed to combo off of it. Jill already requires enough execution to play on a moment-to-moment basis, and we think this deserves a little more leniency.
+Fallen Prey now forces a neutral tech.
Fallen Prey provides a very small and insignificant damage boost, and she is unable to get anything off of it outside of circumstantial assists like Shocking Pink. Jill also has the best mix-up options in the game on wake-up, as she has both a command grab and a 4-way mix-up she can perform. On top of this, she has an invincible anti-air option that is safe and leads to full combos on hit. We felt like Fallen Prey forcing an neutral tech was the best way to give Jills reset game a boost to set it apart from other characters.
We want to be clear that this change should in no way lead to meterless unblockable setups for Jill via low-hitting assists. The wakeup timing should be adjusted appropriately to ensure this is not the case.
+Health increased to 950,000.
As stated before, health should correspond to the difficulty a character has getting in and opening an opponent up. Jill does not have the mobility or speed to justify her previous health value; we have increased it to a more reasonable level.
Assists: Arrow Kick, Somersault Kick, Sickle Kick
Unfortunately, Jill simply does not have the moveset needed to assist a team properly. We considered letting her use a meterless Machine Gun Spray as an assist that only sprays one wave of bullets, like a 360 degree Photon Shot from the air, but decided that this was opening a dangerous door to what other hypers could have minimized versions as assists for characters who lack strong assist options.
Arrow Kick was improved, and will likely be her assist of choice for players. We considered giving Somersault Kick invincibility, but were worried about this being imbalanced for high level play outside of crossover counter situations.
Nemesis:
+Fatal Mutation now has full invincibility; places opponent in a crumple state; startup time reduced to 10 frames; L+M input places the grab hitbox in front of him, M+H in the air in front of him, and L+H straight above his head.
When Nemesis was first showcased pre-Ultimate release, his level 3 animation shocked the Marvel world. Was this a 360 degree level 3 command grab? It looked like it was. On release, players were sad to discover that not only did the command grab not cover 360 degrees as the animation suggests, but it only actually grabs directly in front of Nemesis, like any other command grab hyper. The move also had a horrendously long startup, no invincibility, and no high-damage follow-ups. We are completely clueless as to why this move is so terrible in its current state.
We considered giving the move a 360 degree grab area, but all agree that this would lead to some stupid and inescapable setups even with the long startup time. Instead, we reduced the startup time slightly, made it fully invincible as with any other level 3 command grab, gave it a post-grab follow-up, and added three inputs to allow Nemesis to grab at various angles like the tentacle monster he is.
+Biohazard Rush now has hyper armor from frame 1 until recovery; startup reduced to 8+1; vertical hitbox increased; recovers sooner to allow for post-hyper combos.
The slow startup, lack of immediate hyper armor, and poor recovery make this move almost entirely useless. It cannot be used to counter hypers because of the late armor startup, it is not safe on block, and it does not lead to combos if you happen to be hit. It is not worth the bar of meter in most situations. We improved Biohazard Rush to behave more like the strong reversal option it should be, more in line with hypers like Mach Speed and Bionic Lancer for the featureset it has.
+Bioweapon Assault now better at predicting where rockets should fire; recovers sooner, allowing for post-hyper combos.
Bioweapon Assault sometimes misses opponents, allowing them to recover between rocket firings and punish the hyper as a result. We consider this more of a fix than a buff this should not happen. Like Biohazard Rush, we allow the hyper to link into combos. We do not expect this to improve Nemesis combo damage so much as it will offer him new reset tools, and it may provide some interesting THC punish options.
+c.H super armor changed to frames 8-27; travel time decreased significantly; s.H super armor changed to frames 7-24.
Nemesis is an armor character, but the armor on all of his moves is terrible. His c.H is meant to be a charging armor move, but Nemesis barely moves, and he moves slowly. We improved both of these aspects so he can feel more like the character he wants to be.
+Startup on all aerial normals reduced by 2 frames.
This will help Nemesis be a safer aerial combatant. He has wonderful, wonderful aerials, but it is too easy to air grab him because their startup is so slow. By increasing their speed a bit, we hope to give Nemesis slightly safer approach and defense options.
+Minimum damage scaling for hypers increased to 60%.
Nemesis does poor damage for a heavy character, primarily because his hypers deal very little damage. We provided them with a significant damage boost to bring Nemesis more in line with his weight class. He simply deserves greater rewards for getting a hit in.
+qcb.S now fires a self-aiming rocket with the same frame data qcf.S has.
This gives Nemesis a strong projectile option against superjumping characters. We do not expect this to get used as his primary projectile, as the frame data is significantly worse than his TKed rockets.
+Clothesline Rocket L: 26 frame start up, +2 on block(no rocket, soft knockdown); previous L and M versions moved to M and H, respectively.
Nemesis Clothesline Rocket moves are not particularly useful because they have poor frame advantage and the rockets miss pretty much every character in the game. We added this new Clothesline Rocket so Nemesis can have at least one strong blockstring option, as he currently has none.
+Deadly Reach and grapple moves now steal health.
Essentially, any move involving a tentacle from Nemesis will now perform life leach for the exact amount of health it removed from the opponent. The logic here is that Nemesis is an armored character who is designed to take damage before grappling, and adding life leach will balance out the sacrifices he has to make to get in. We also considered adding armor to his dashes for command grab setups to complete this picture, but some committee members were concerned that this would be too strong.
+Launcher Slam M now has armor from frames 8-29; carries over to the assist version.
This gives Nemesis a better-armored frame trap to make his command grabs more fearsome.
Assists: Launcher Slam M, Clothesline Rocket M, qcb.S (aiming)
A tracking rocket launcher attack is such an obvious addition to Nemesis moveset that we dont know why it isnt there already. It is as though someone decided Nemesis should just not be able to support a team at all. The animation is already in place through Bioweapon Assault, so we added this as an assist. Launcher Slam M now has armor, making it a solid get off me assist. Clothesline Rocket M was retained because it is a common assist for players to choose presently.
Morrigan:
*Shadow Blade M float point reduced (removes Morrigans corner infinite).
This is intended to be a slight change that does not interfere with any of Morrigans combos. It should result in Finishing Shower actually landing more missiles in most situations.
+Shadow Servant THC chosen for all assist types.
This is a change unanimously requested by Morrigan users. Finishing Shower is an unreliable and low damage hyper which doesnt last long enough to mix up opponents like Million Dollars does. Finishing Shower is generally not a good hyper, in fact. Shadow Servant makes Morrigan yet another excellent THC team player, and it opens new Soul Drain combo options for her with characters like Dante without having to sacrifice Dark Harmonizer.
+Finishing Shower hitstun increased.
This change is intended to increase Morrigans DHC options. She currently has difficulty transitioning from this hyper after a Shadow Blade M during an aerial series because of its low hitstun.
+Vector Drain air OK.
Morrigan has absolutely no mix-up options without a pinning assist. She has the most predictable approach in the game, and you always know how she is going to hit: high. She is especially susceptible to chicken blocking as a result of her unusual movement style, and it is uncommon for players to get hit by Morrigan without getting pinned by an assist like Hidden Missiles (which now creates less pin than before). Vector Drain already shares the same animation as her air throw, so no new animations are required. The whiffed command grab animation should be the same as her grounded version, and Morrigans bats can appear around her feet to demonstrate that she is hovering. We feel this is an important change to make to ensure Morrigan has options against characters who just want to run away from her when she needs to rush.
+Darkness Illusion leaves opponent in a crumple state.
Part of our decision to buff level 3s in general. Darkness Illusion is one of two invincible aerial hypers in the game, but its damage is weak and the reversal rarely changes the flow of the game, unlike hypers like Devil Must Die. Leaving the opponent in a crumple state should open up some interesting follow-ups for Morrigan.
+Air throws and Vector Drain (all) untechable knockdown increased by 30 frames.
This change was made so that Morrigan can call an OTG assist to convert off of her aerial throws and command grabs. This will improve Morrigans team variety by offering incentive to improve her game in ways besides keepaway and pinning.
-Soul Fist and Soul Drain damage reduced to 70,000.
We do not feel as though Astral Vision is too strong. Rather, we feel as though Morrigan, when combined with Hidden Missiles, is too strong. We have made significant nerfs to Hidden Missiles, which is too strong as an assist in general. Morrigan has not made any strong performances in the Marvel competitive scene without Hidden Missiles, which cements our confidence in that judgment. However, the amount of chip damage that a player can take during Astral Vision is considerable, and we have thus reduced Soul Fists damage. This reduced damage also means reduced meter gain, which ensures Astral Vision will not be able to self-fund as well as it can right now.
Assists: Shadow Blade H, Dark Harmonizer, Soul Drain
Morrigans present Soul Fist assist is never used. It has a slow startup, low durability, and travels slowly. Morrigans limited moveset prevents us from coming up with solid replacements, but the idea of having an assist that can drain meter mid-combo is appealing. We think different teams will appreciate Dark Harmonizer and Soul Drain for what they each offer. Dark Harmonizer will provide more meter, and faster, while Soul Drain will remove meter and offers some weak neutral coverage.
+Arrow Kick travels farther; air OK; ground version can now be canceled into Feral Crouch on hit.
Jill has no real aerial mobility, and she has no surprise moves that players have to watch out for like Wolverine has. Arrow Kick is safe on block, but is slow-ish to come out while not covering much ground. It also cannot lead into full combos on hit, which makes the move have even more questionable utility. We improved it in these areas to give Jill a better surprise approach method and improve her assist options.
+Machine Gun Spray damage increased to 20,000 per bullet (22 bullets fire).
Machine Gun Spray does pitiful damage. We recall a recent video where a Jill player used 5 bars of Machine Gun Spray spam against a Taskmaster player with a sliver of health left, and still Taskmaster remained standing. Machine Gun Spray is not a particularly damaging hyper when comboed into, so we are confident that improving its damage significantly will not turn Jill into an unstoppable destroyer.
+Mad Beast is now a level 1; Mad Beast no longer allows meter to be built; startup changed to 4+1.
Mad Beast has stiff competition against Fatal Mutation as the worst level 3 hyper in the game. Yes, it can be used in combination with X-Factor level 3 to chip opponents out, but that is a very minor use for a level 3 hyper. Simply put, we do not think Mad Beast can be made into a hyper which is worth 3 bars of meter. A fellow utility hyper, Ouroboros, provides full-screen control, multiple mix-up opportunities, and does not remove the users ability to block. Too much would need to change for Mad Beast to become viable, and it would likely not look like Mad Beast anymore.
Instead, we decided to make Mad Beast a level 1, and balance it around this change. We are still not entirely sure whether Mad Beast will be used often by Jill players, but it will definitely not be used less!
+Double Knee Drop startup reduced by 5 frames across the board.
This change was made to assist in Jills aerial game. While we do not think Double Knee Drop should become a dependable dive kick, right now it feels entirely useless in the neutral outside of her double overheads, which this change will improve as well.
+Position Change is now +6 on hit.
Position Change is a command grab with a 1-frame link needed to combo off of it. Jill already requires enough execution to play on a moment-to-moment basis, and we think this deserves a little more leniency.
+Fallen Prey now forces a neutral tech.
Fallen Prey provides a very small and insignificant damage boost, and she is unable to get anything off of it outside of circumstantial assists like Shocking Pink. Jill also has the best mix-up options in the game on wake-up, as she has both a command grab and a 4-way mix-up she can perform. On top of this, she has an invincible anti-air option that is safe and leads to full combos on hit. We felt like Fallen Prey forcing an neutral tech was the best way to give Jills reset game a boost to set it apart from other characters.
We want to be clear that this change should in no way lead to meterless unblockable setups for Jill via low-hitting assists. The wakeup timing should be adjusted appropriately to ensure this is not the case.
+Health increased to 950,000.
As stated before, health should correspond to the difficulty a character has getting in and opening an opponent up. Jill does not have the mobility or speed to justify her previous health value; we have increased it to a more reasonable level.
Assists: Arrow Kick, Somersault Kick, Sickle Kick
Unfortunately, Jill simply does not have the moveset needed to assist a team properly. We considered letting her use a meterless Machine Gun Spray as an assist that only sprays one wave of bullets, like a 360 degree Photon Shot from the air, but decided that this was opening a dangerous door to what other hypers could have minimized versions as assists for characters who lack strong assist options.
Arrow Kick was improved, and will likely be her assist of choice for players. We considered giving Somersault Kick invincibility, but were worried about this being imbalanced for high level play outside of crossover counter situations.
Nemesis:
+Fatal Mutation now has full invincibility; places opponent in a crumple state; startup time reduced to 10 frames; L+M input places the grab hitbox in front of him, M+H in the air in front of him, and L+H straight above his head.
When Nemesis was first showcased pre-Ultimate release, his level 3 animation shocked the Marvel world. Was this a 360 degree level 3 command grab? It looked like it was. On release, players were sad to discover that not only did the command grab not cover 360 degrees as the animation suggests, but it only actually grabs directly in front of Nemesis, like any other command grab hyper. The move also had a horrendously long startup, no invincibility, and no high-damage follow-ups. We are completely clueless as to why this move is so terrible in its current state.
We considered giving the move a 360 degree grab area, but all agree that this would lead to some stupid and inescapable setups even with the long startup time. Instead, we reduced the startup time slightly, made it fully invincible as with any other level 3 command grab, gave it a post-grab follow-up, and added three inputs to allow Nemesis to grab at various angles like the tentacle monster he is.
+Biohazard Rush now has hyper armor from frame 1 until recovery; startup reduced to 8+1; vertical hitbox increased; recovers sooner to allow for post-hyper combos.
The slow startup, lack of immediate hyper armor, and poor recovery make this move almost entirely useless. It cannot be used to counter hypers because of the late armor startup, it is not safe on block, and it does not lead to combos if you happen to be hit. It is not worth the bar of meter in most situations. We improved Biohazard Rush to behave more like the strong reversal option it should be, more in line with hypers like Mach Speed and Bionic Lancer for the featureset it has.
+Bioweapon Assault now better at predicting where rockets should fire; recovers sooner, allowing for post-hyper combos.
Bioweapon Assault sometimes misses opponents, allowing them to recover between rocket firings and punish the hyper as a result. We consider this more of a fix than a buff this should not happen. Like Biohazard Rush, we allow the hyper to link into combos. We do not expect this to improve Nemesis combo damage so much as it will offer him new reset tools, and it may provide some interesting THC punish options.
+c.H super armor changed to frames 8-27; travel time decreased significantly; s.H super armor changed to frames 7-24.
Nemesis is an armor character, but the armor on all of his moves is terrible. His c.H is meant to be a charging armor move, but Nemesis barely moves, and he moves slowly. We improved both of these aspects so he can feel more like the character he wants to be.
+Startup on all aerial normals reduced by 2 frames.
This will help Nemesis be a safer aerial combatant. He has wonderful, wonderful aerials, but it is too easy to air grab him because their startup is so slow. By increasing their speed a bit, we hope to give Nemesis slightly safer approach and defense options.
+Minimum damage scaling for hypers increased to 60%.
Nemesis does poor damage for a heavy character, primarily because his hypers deal very little damage. We provided them with a significant damage boost to bring Nemesis more in line with his weight class. He simply deserves greater rewards for getting a hit in.
+qcb.S now fires a self-aiming rocket with the same frame data qcf.S has.
This gives Nemesis a strong projectile option against superjumping characters. We do not expect this to get used as his primary projectile, as the frame data is significantly worse than his TKed rockets.
+Clothesline Rocket L: 26 frame start up, +2 on block(no rocket, soft knockdown); previous L and M versions moved to M and H, respectively.
Nemesis Clothesline Rocket moves are not particularly useful because they have poor frame advantage and the rockets miss pretty much every character in the game. We added this new Clothesline Rocket so Nemesis can have at least one strong blockstring option, as he currently has none.
+Deadly Reach and grapple moves now steal health.
Essentially, any move involving a tentacle from Nemesis will now perform life leach for the exact amount of health it removed from the opponent. The logic here is that Nemesis is an armored character who is designed to take damage before grappling, and adding life leach will balance out the sacrifices he has to make to get in. We also considered adding armor to his dashes for command grab setups to complete this picture, but some committee members were concerned that this would be too strong.
+Launcher Slam M now has armor from frames 8-29; carries over to the assist version.
This gives Nemesis a better-armored frame trap to make his command grabs more fearsome.
Assists: Launcher Slam M, Clothesline Rocket M, qcb.S (aiming)
A tracking rocket launcher attack is such an obvious addition to Nemesis moveset that we dont know why it isnt there already. It is as though someone decided Nemesis should just not be able to support a team at all. The animation is already in place through Bioweapon Assault, so we added this as an assist. Launcher Slam M now has armor, making it a solid get off me assist. Clothesline Rocket M was retained because it is a common assist for players to choose presently.
Morrigan:
*Shadow Blade M float point reduced (removes Morrigans corner infinite).
This is intended to be a slight change that does not interfere with any of Morrigans combos. It should result in Finishing Shower actually landing more missiles in most situations.
+Shadow Servant THC chosen for all assist types.
This is a change unanimously requested by Morrigan users. Finishing Shower is an unreliable and low damage hyper which doesnt last long enough to mix up opponents like Million Dollars does. Finishing Shower is generally not a good hyper, in fact. Shadow Servant makes Morrigan yet another excellent THC team player, and it opens new Soul Drain combo options for her with characters like Dante without having to sacrifice Dark Harmonizer.
+Finishing Shower hitstun increased.
This change is intended to increase Morrigans DHC options. She currently has difficulty transitioning from this hyper after a Shadow Blade M during an aerial series because of its low hitstun.
+Vector Drain air OK.
Morrigan has absolutely no mix-up options without a pinning assist. She has the most predictable approach in the game, and you always know how she is going to hit: high. She is especially susceptible to chicken blocking as a result of her unusual movement style, and it is uncommon for players to get hit by Morrigan without getting pinned by an assist like Hidden Missiles (which now creates less pin than before). Vector Drain already shares the same animation as her air throw, so no new animations are required. The whiffed command grab animation should be the same as her grounded version, and Morrigans bats can appear around her feet to demonstrate that she is hovering. We feel this is an important change to make to ensure Morrigan has options against characters who just want to run away from her when she needs to rush.
+Darkness Illusion leaves opponent in a crumple state.
Part of our decision to buff level 3s in general. Darkness Illusion is one of two invincible aerial hypers in the game, but its damage is weak and the reversal rarely changes the flow of the game, unlike hypers like Devil Must Die. Leaving the opponent in a crumple state should open up some interesting follow-ups for Morrigan.
+Air throws and Vector Drain (all) untechable knockdown increased by 30 frames.
This change was made so that Morrigan can call an OTG assist to convert off of her aerial throws and command grabs. This will improve Morrigans team variety by offering incentive to improve her game in ways besides keepaway and pinning.
-Soul Fist and Soul Drain damage reduced to 70,000.
We do not feel as though Astral Vision is too strong. Rather, we feel as though Morrigan, when combined with Hidden Missiles, is too strong. We have made significant nerfs to Hidden Missiles, which is too strong as an assist in general. Morrigan has not made any strong performances in the Marvel competitive scene without Hidden Missiles, which cements our confidence in that judgment. However, the amount of chip damage that a player can take during Astral Vision is considerable, and we have thus reduced Soul Fists damage. This reduced damage also means reduced meter gain, which ensures Astral Vision will not be able to self-fund as well as it can right now.
Assists: Shadow Blade H, Dark Harmonizer, Soul Drain
Morrigans present Soul Fist assist is never used. It has a slow startup, low durability, and travels slowly. Morrigans limited moveset prevents us from coming up with solid replacements, but the idea of having an assist that can drain meter mid-combo is appealing. We think different teams will appreciate Dark Harmonizer and Soul Drain for what they each offer. Dark Harmonizer will provide more meter, and faster, while Soul Drain will remove meter and offers some weak neutral coverage.
Karsticles
Member
You work at beating Ghost Rider, and then we'll talk about Morrigan. ;-)
Your team is a hard counterpick to Morrigan without Hidden Missiles. -_-
Question: sometimes I do a buktooth loop with Doom, and then I try to transition into Doom's mid-screen OTG relaunches, but I mess up. When I hit with my second j.M, I can see that my opponent is not at the right height ratio to connect f.H into j.S for the proper spike, and the j.S is going to whiff. What is my proper decision in that situation, besides TACing?
It really surprises me that you don't think so (or don't know). She can hold her own pretty well without missiles....
I'm not even saying it to start shit, I'm just saying it cause it's the truth and I hope people know that lol.
Am I the only one who thinks grabs shouldn't lead to combos?
Karsticles
Member
Magneto:
+Forcefield now reflects projectiles and negates beams.
This move is only ever used on accident because it carries so much risk on a character with many mobility options. By allowing Forcefield to better interact with projectiles, it gains a new purpose that may increase its usability in the neutral. This also ensures that when Magneto counters a character, he will also stop the projectiles backing that character (or vice versa).
-EM Disruptor L assist no longer appears behind the point character.
This change was made to match Dr. Dooms Plasma Beam nerf. The goal is to reduce the thoughtlessness behind certain assist calls.
-Hyper Grav (all versions) damage reduced to 65,000; frame advantage improved by 7 for all versions on block.
Hyper Gravs damage was reduced to lower Magnetos corner loop damage and meter gain. The meter gain is especially problematic, and Magnetos solo meter gain is considerably higher than that of most characters right now. The improved frame advantage encourages players to use Hyper Grav in the neutral.
-s.S now -6 on block.
Like Weskers s.S, we changed the frame advantage on this because it is a powerful tool with little consequence for failure. Reducing the frame advantage by 2 ensures that Magneto will lose momentum even against slow characters, and allows most characters to punish the launcher on block.
-Magnetic Blast is now +15 on block and has 3 frames of landing recovery.
SOMEONE ELSE WRITE THIS
Assists: EM Disruptor L, Hyper Grav H, Reverse Polarity
Forcefield as an assist is exactly like its point version: it gets used only on accident. Even with the changes we gave it, it would not be useful, just as Amaterasus reflect barrier is never used. Instead, we added Reverse Polarity as a unique and interesting anti-air option. We are confident that some players will find interesting and creative uses for this assist.
M.O.D.O.K.:
*M.O.D.O.K. automatically powers his assists up through levels of understanding when able to.
M.O.D.O.K. players thought this was going to be a thing when he was revealed, but unfortunately it was not meant to be. This change gives more strategic purpose to each of M.O.D.O.K.s assists, such as reversing controls mid-combo while he is off-screen and placing a gigantic barrier for keepaway characters. It is unlikely that a player would ever not want to use his or her levels of understand in this way, as M.O.D.O.K. builds them up quickly during TAC combos, and he is never in critical need of them while on point.
+Psionic Blaster vertical hitbox slightly extended downward.
This change was made to widen the number of useful beam projectiles in the game. Very few characters can depend on Psionic Blaster to create pressure. Moons is the only player who has been successful with it.
+Hyper Psionic Blaster damage reworked; scaling with levels of understanding below:
0: 8,000 X 34 (177,100)
1: 8,000 X 40 (201,100)
2: 8,000 X 50 (241,100)
3: 8,000 X 58 (273,100)
4: 8,000 X 68 (313,100)
5: 8,000 X 76 (345,100)
6: 8,000 X 85 (381,100)
7: 8,000 X 100 (441,100)
We wanted Hyper Psionic Blaster to be better than it currently is without levels of understanding. While charging the move through Analyze Cubes is an interesting tactic, the end result in Vanilla and Ultimate is a hyper move that has no real use in most situations. This change will help reduce the disparity, making the hyper more useful in a greater variety of situations.
+c.L hitbox now hits crouching characters near M.O.D.O.K.
A parity change.
+Using specials in the air no longer reduces the number of hits Hyper Battering Ram will be capable of.
We feel this is an unnecessary trade-off for M.O.D.O.K. He is not a particularly high damage character, and we can see no clear reason this should exist.
+Hyper Psionic Blasters beam durability is now consistent across all levels of
understanding.
Hyper Psionic Blaster currently has less durability at higher levels of understanding, which is counter-intuitive. To keep things simple, we advocate the move retaining its durability at all levels of understanding.
+Untechable time on forward air throw increased slightly.
This change was made to ease M.O.D.O.K.s ability to convert off of his aerial throws, and to ensure he can do so consistently.
+Killer Illumination startup changed to 18+0.
This ensures that Killer Illumination will be a guaranteed DHC bait when used properly, and provides synergy between M.O.D.O.K. and anti-air hyper grab characters like She-Hulk and Frank West. In general, we do not think players should be able to react to command grab hypers during the cinematic screen.
-c.M no longer hits low; puddle duration increased to 150 frames.
This change was made to remove M.O.D.O.K.s meterless unblockables; the puddles duration was increased to compensate for the change and improve his spacing game.
Assists: Psionic Blast M, Balloon Bomb H, Barrier
Balloon Bomb H was swapped in for Balloon Bomb M because it provides another anti-air option. Balloon Bomb M unfortunately does not interact with projectiles, which limits its appeal as a screen-filler. We think the tracking property on Balloon Bomb H will open up interesting options for certain team compositions, particularly ones which involve command grab characters.
WHEW! ALMOST DONE WITH ANNOTATIONS! I HAVE THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERS LEFT IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO PITCH IN:
PHOENIX WRIGHT
ROCKET RACCOON
RYU
SHE-HULK
SHUMA-GORATH
STORM
STRIDER
SUPER-SKRULL
SENTINEL IS MINE!
+Forcefield now reflects projectiles and negates beams.
This move is only ever used on accident because it carries so much risk on a character with many mobility options. By allowing Forcefield to better interact with projectiles, it gains a new purpose that may increase its usability in the neutral. This also ensures that when Magneto counters a character, he will also stop the projectiles backing that character (or vice versa).
-EM Disruptor L assist no longer appears behind the point character.
This change was made to match Dr. Dooms Plasma Beam nerf. The goal is to reduce the thoughtlessness behind certain assist calls.
-Hyper Grav (all versions) damage reduced to 65,000; frame advantage improved by 7 for all versions on block.
Hyper Gravs damage was reduced to lower Magnetos corner loop damage and meter gain. The meter gain is especially problematic, and Magnetos solo meter gain is considerably higher than that of most characters right now. The improved frame advantage encourages players to use Hyper Grav in the neutral.
-s.S now -6 on block.
Like Weskers s.S, we changed the frame advantage on this because it is a powerful tool with little consequence for failure. Reducing the frame advantage by 2 ensures that Magneto will lose momentum even against slow characters, and allows most characters to punish the launcher on block.
-Magnetic Blast is now +15 on block and has 3 frames of landing recovery.
SOMEONE ELSE WRITE THIS
Assists: EM Disruptor L, Hyper Grav H, Reverse Polarity
Forcefield as an assist is exactly like its point version: it gets used only on accident. Even with the changes we gave it, it would not be useful, just as Amaterasus reflect barrier is never used. Instead, we added Reverse Polarity as a unique and interesting anti-air option. We are confident that some players will find interesting and creative uses for this assist.
M.O.D.O.K.:
*M.O.D.O.K. automatically powers his assists up through levels of understanding when able to.
M.O.D.O.K. players thought this was going to be a thing when he was revealed, but unfortunately it was not meant to be. This change gives more strategic purpose to each of M.O.D.O.K.s assists, such as reversing controls mid-combo while he is off-screen and placing a gigantic barrier for keepaway characters. It is unlikely that a player would ever not want to use his or her levels of understand in this way, as M.O.D.O.K. builds them up quickly during TAC combos, and he is never in critical need of them while on point.
+Psionic Blaster vertical hitbox slightly extended downward.
This change was made to widen the number of useful beam projectiles in the game. Very few characters can depend on Psionic Blaster to create pressure. Moons is the only player who has been successful with it.
+Hyper Psionic Blaster damage reworked; scaling with levels of understanding below:
0: 8,000 X 34 (177,100)
1: 8,000 X 40 (201,100)
2: 8,000 X 50 (241,100)
3: 8,000 X 58 (273,100)
4: 8,000 X 68 (313,100)
5: 8,000 X 76 (345,100)
6: 8,000 X 85 (381,100)
7: 8,000 X 100 (441,100)
We wanted Hyper Psionic Blaster to be better than it currently is without levels of understanding. While charging the move through Analyze Cubes is an interesting tactic, the end result in Vanilla and Ultimate is a hyper move that has no real use in most situations. This change will help reduce the disparity, making the hyper more useful in a greater variety of situations.
+c.L hitbox now hits crouching characters near M.O.D.O.K.
A parity change.
+Using specials in the air no longer reduces the number of hits Hyper Battering Ram will be capable of.
We feel this is an unnecessary trade-off for M.O.D.O.K. He is not a particularly high damage character, and we can see no clear reason this should exist.
+Hyper Psionic Blasters beam durability is now consistent across all levels of
understanding.
Hyper Psionic Blaster currently has less durability at higher levels of understanding, which is counter-intuitive. To keep things simple, we advocate the move retaining its durability at all levels of understanding.
+Untechable time on forward air throw increased slightly.
This change was made to ease M.O.D.O.K.s ability to convert off of his aerial throws, and to ensure he can do so consistently.
+Killer Illumination startup changed to 18+0.
This ensures that Killer Illumination will be a guaranteed DHC bait when used properly, and provides synergy between M.O.D.O.K. and anti-air hyper grab characters like She-Hulk and Frank West. In general, we do not think players should be able to react to command grab hypers during the cinematic screen.
-c.M no longer hits low; puddle duration increased to 150 frames.
This change was made to remove M.O.D.O.K.s meterless unblockables; the puddles duration was increased to compensate for the change and improve his spacing game.
Assists: Psionic Blast M, Balloon Bomb H, Barrier
Balloon Bomb H was swapped in for Balloon Bomb M because it provides another anti-air option. Balloon Bomb M unfortunately does not interact with projectiles, which limits its appeal as a screen-filler. We think the tracking property on Balloon Bomb H will open up interesting options for certain team compositions, particularly ones which involve command grab characters.
WHEW! ALMOST DONE WITH ANNOTATIONS! I HAVE THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERS LEFT IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO PITCH IN:
PHOENIX WRIGHT
ROCKET RACCOON
RYU
SHE-HULK
SHUMA-GORATH
STORM
STRIDER
SUPER-SKRULL
SENTINEL IS MINE!
Karsticles
Member
I don't think projectiles should lead to combos, if ya know what I mean. ;-)
Throws should not lead to combos, but that would require a major system overhaul to ensure no character can convert off of a throw. It would be a major balance change to make up for, too, since many characters are balanced on the fact that they do get combos off of throws.
Morrigan has some absolutely horrendous matchups without Hidden Missiles. Teleporters especially destroy her. Sure, she beats a lot of slow characters and some rushdown characters, but she's not touching Dante, Vergil, Dormammu, Strider, etc. Astral Vision becomes easy to avoid, and she's just scary. I've never been afraid of a Morrigan without Hidden Missiles unless she uses Vajra, and even then it's a much smaller fear I feel. I anchored Morrigan for 6 months, so I feel I have a strong base of knowledge about how she performs without Hidden Missiles as a result. If a player really has trouble against Morrigan without Vajra or Hidden Missiles, I think that player needs to change up his or her team composition or learn how to handle her better. She has a lot of problems without those assists, primarily because of her input needs.
Morrigan's projectiles lead to combos too...
I am in a game right now but I will review that stuff soon.
Morrigan alone is a High tier character. Not top tier but she is definitely above average. Morrigan with Missiles is straight up retarded top tier. No legitimate player plays her without Missiles though so its like whatever... no one really cares about Dieminion's anchor Morrigan and he doesn't even take the game seriously. It's like talking about an unassisted Zero... yea sure characters can beat him if he's unassisted but he is almost always going to be with a projectile assist, Jam Session, Missiles or Rapid Slash.
I am in a game right now but I will review that stuff soon.
Morrigan alone is a High tier character. Not top tier but she is definitely above average. Morrigan with Missiles is straight up retarded top tier. No legitimate player plays her without Missiles though so its like whatever... no one really cares about Dieminion's anchor Morrigan and he doesn't even take the game seriously. It's like talking about an unassisted Zero... yea sure characters can beat him if he's unassisted but he is almost always going to be with a projectile assist, Jam Session, Missiles or Rapid Slash.
When you transition to the regular relaunch loop, you can add in a j.L before the j.Ms and it will make it much easier to get above them so your footdives hit properly. Like in this vid of my Doom bnb, you can see I do two reps of the buktooth loop and then use a j.L in my first rep of the regular relaunch loop which helps adjust my height properly relative to my opponent's height. It's not necessary, but it can make it easier and/or correct messed up positioning in case their body was too high when you launched them.
I know jam session is great against Morrigan- she's still not a bad character w/o missiles though
And here is my super belated vote.
She-Hulk: Yes
Tron: Yes - although I'd suggest changing it to 4 for normal jump and 2 for super jump, effectively halving the current values.
Chris: Yes
Cap: Yes
Haggar: Yes
Nemesis: Yes
Phoenix Wright: Did something change here? Either way, yes.
Thor: Yes
Spider-Man: Yes, although I feel like it should be Spider Sting L, not H. Spider Sting H wouldn't really allow Spider-Bite to hit against most characters on block, and since it's an overhead, it'd be useful to have it hitting on block.
Strider: I think there should probably be a projectile durability buff to Formation A1 if we're removing the negation of physical attacks. The negation of physical attacks is honestly more useful than a 3 low durability projectile that ignores physical attacks.
Ghost Rider: Yes - although wouldn't the air OK Chain of Rebuttal and Chain of Punishment require new animations?
Felicia and Firebrand are the same now that you removed the helpers persisting on tag out, right? I voted yes on them prior, and that still stands.
I may pitch in and annotate the Strider changelist for my belated votes.
She-Hulk: Yes
Tron: Yes - although I'd suggest changing it to 4 for normal jump and 2 for super jump, effectively halving the current values.
Chris: Yes
Cap: Yes
Haggar: Yes
Nemesis: Yes
Phoenix Wright: Did something change here? Either way, yes.
Thor: Yes
Spider-Man: Yes, although I feel like it should be Spider Sting L, not H. Spider Sting H wouldn't really allow Spider-Bite to hit against most characters on block, and since it's an overhead, it'd be useful to have it hitting on block.
Strider: I think there should probably be a projectile durability buff to Formation A1 if we're removing the negation of physical attacks. The negation of physical attacks is honestly more useful than a 3 low durability projectile that ignores physical attacks.
Ghost Rider: Yes - although wouldn't the air OK Chain of Rebuttal and Chain of Punishment require new animations?
Felicia and Firebrand are the same now that you removed the helpers persisting on tag out, right? I voted yes on them prior, and that still stands.
I may pitch in and annotate the Strider changelist for my belated votes.
Karsticles
Member
Frantic, can you explain your Strider comment? With examples, please.
He's just saying that form A1 negating a physical attack (and acting as a hit of super armor if you dash in behind it) is better than the proposed "buff" where it's just a really low durability projectile.
Karsticles
Member
I understand the words, but not his logic.
I played a guy that I felt like being the world's biggest asshole to, for some reason. I dunno why, but something about the guy was pissing me off.
Still, landing Magneto's grab, cr.L > grab > cr.L > airgrab was the funniest shit I've done in a while. I was in his head, man. Straight in his head.
Still, landing Magneto's grab, cr.L > grab > cr.L > airgrab was the funniest shit I've done in a while. I was in his head, man. Straight in his head.
This, basically. Making it a straight projectile as is wouldn't help him much. It's pretty much worthless in a projectile fight, and it's not going to be more useful as a 'get in' projectile either since it won't absorb physical attacks. If you're dashing in behind it and you get hit as you're going in, you're ultimately just going to trade with whatever hit you and the situation may ultimately be in your opponent's favor(if they hit you with something that has a lot of hitstun or causes a soft-knockdown). If Formation A1 took the hit, Strider would still be at the advantage since any physical attack that hits Formation A1 is counted as a 'whiff' - so if they threw out something like Shield Skills, they're going to be recovering for a while. If you're going to remove that property, there needs to be something done to Formation A1 as otherwise it's a pretty subpar projectile that's only good against characters with no projectiles of their own.
That's cold! It was only one match!
I think SlasherMcGirk should write the Phoenix Wright notations, or at least help write them.WHEW! ALMOST DONE WITH ANNOTATIONS! I HAVE THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERS LEFT IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO PITCH IN:
PHOENIX WRIGHT
ROCKET RACCOON
RYU
SHE-HULK
SHUMA-GORATH
STORM
STRIDER
SUPER-SKRULL
SENTINEL IS MINE!
(If he has time, that is)
I don't play any of those characters well enough to help with notations, but I'll continue reading over the notations as you guys complete them.
Karst you should add the recent changes to the characters so I can update the annotations as well.
The characters that are left I am not too familiar with but I can take a shot. Definitely not touching Shuma, Phoenix Wright and I am pretty sure you can tackle Super Skrull yourself since you play him.
-Magnetic Blast is now +15 on block and has 3 frames of landing recovery.
Magneto is generally considered a top 5 character in UMVC3 and a major component to him being so dominating is his Magnetic Blast. Magnetic Blast is a move that is already excellent on paper... 5 durability points, slow moving, angled down, high hit stun/block stun, usable in combos etc. The only negative side to the move is its high air recovery... which is now an irrelevant attribute of the move since Magneto players have figured out ways to plink dash close to the ground and get instantaneous ground recovery for the move. The safety that this move provides along with the absurd frame advantage is what allows Magneto to dominate so many match ups similar to how he dominated matches in Vanilla with his high block stun EMD (which was nerfed accordingly).
When trying to figure out how to change the move without completely destroying the move or the character it was quite a challenge. It was recommended that we lower the durability from 5 to 4 but that was not a good change because that would mean that the Morrigan vs Magneto match up would be more in Morrigan's favor. A lot of people recommended adding ground recovery to the move as that was the crux of the problem with the move, its safety. We couldn't add too much recovery to the move because it would impact his fluidity and combos/confirms too much so we settled with 3 frame ground recovery. Furthermore the move was still impervious to chicken blocking/trip guard so we decided to lower block stun/frame advantage of the move so that rushdown only characters would have less of a miserable time blocking Magnetic Blasts at close range. If increasing the landing recovery impact his combos/confirms then we are fine with Capcom fine tuning the hit stun of the move to compensate for any side effects of this change. We obviously don't want to nerf Magneto's combos/confirms off of Magnetic Blasts, the concern is more about how advantageous the move is in the neutral.
Ryu
+Hado Kakusei no longer causes Ryu’s health to drain; startup reduced to 0+4; duration increased to 750 frames; no longer allows meter to be built during its duration.
The health drain on this utility hyper was an unneeded side effect. When some utility hypers actually gain the player health it made no sense to have a negative side effect on an already pretty mediocre hyper. The main issue with this utility hyper was that it was mainly a combo hyper meter... you only used it if you wanted big damage in combos. We felt that like other utility hypers it should be more useful in the neutral and allow Ryu to become a better character much like Dante/Vergil/Wolverine do when they power up. For this reason we increased the duration to match the duration of other similar hypers. We realized that increasing duration would result in absurd combos that would build back the meter used to start up the hyper so we removed meter gain during the hyper for balance purposes. Right now this doesn't seem like much of a buff to the hyper (increase duration for loss of meter gain) but once the changes on the special moves for the hyper are showcased it will make more sense.
+Aerial Shinku Hadoken can now be aimed upward
This is a change mostly to allow Ryu to give additional damage from stray Shoryuken hits. Right now he gets nothing off of his standard Shoryuken which means the risk/reward ratio is just not there. Most DPs in this game allow the player to get either an air hyper or in most cases a full combo off of them so it made little sense for Ryu to get almost nothing out of his.
+Hadoken recovery reduced by 10 frames across the board; Hado Kakusei Hadoken now has 10 durability points.
For a fairly linear slow moving fireball the recovery on the move was pretty high which made it easily punishable by tri dashers and other fast characters. This change makes it more in line with Akuma's fireball which are still punishable but much more usable. Had Kakusei Hadoken is the Hadoken during Ryu's powered up state and we felt that the fireball should have more durability during this state to allow him some advantage in projectile warfare which as of now he has very little of.
+Baku Hadoken startup reduced to 30 frames; recovery reduced to 20 frames; now aimable like Shinku Hadoken; causes OTG ground bounce when aimed downward; 10 projectile durability.
This was one of the moves added to Ryu that sees very little usage because of its limited functionality. You can charge it for some frames and it causes a wall bounce but the durability was really low for it to do anything when projectiles were flying around so we decided to add more durability to it (note that the 10 durability is only applied at max charge). We also improved its speed so that it can be used in more situations but more importantly we made it aimable. During the charge you can aim the direction and like Shinku Hadoken he can fire it in the appropriate direction. If aimed downwards it would cause a ground bounce and against a hard knockdowned opponent it will it hit OTG. This change was mostly suggested to give Ryu comboability after an air throw which he needs as he lacks any sort of OTG move outside of a super.
+Ren Hadoken negates pushblock; -5 on block; now fires 4 fireballs max
It was difficult to figure out a way to make this move useful without completely reworking. We decided to give it pushblock negation... a property that is on very few moves. This would allow the move to be used as a way to set up assist based mix ups especially on incoming characters.
+Shin Tatsumaki Senpukyaku now causes spinning knockdown; comboable
This is a buff added to give more reward for using it as a read or to counter something. The hyper sees very little use especially in the neutral.
+Hado Kakusei Tatsumaki Senpukyaku now ignores projectiles
This is a buff to bring the move more like its SF counter part as well as more like Akuma's. This change makes Ryu's Tatsu assist a very powerful assist as its very similar to Akuma's Tatsu although you will have to burn a bar to have access to it. This will also allow Ryu to have more options against other zoners in terms of getting in and makes the powered up hyper much more appealing.
+Hado Kakusei Shoryuken and Hado Shoryuken hitstun increased significantly
Since we buffed all the other powered up specials we thought it was only right we would buff up the special Shoryukens too. These changes allow Ryu to combo off of his Shoryken when he is powered up giving him yet another dangerous tool for the opponent to be wary of. The charge Shoryuken also gains a similar buff and it becomes a very threatening super jump move against fliers (right now if someone gets tagged by this move they just shrug off, fly and start air dashing around).
+Untechable time after air throws increased by 30 frame
This change was mostly suggested to allow Ryu to have enough time after his throw to self combo with Baku Hadoken.
+j.L hitstun increased to allow links into Tatsumaki Senpukyaku L.
A change made so that Ryu is more self sufficient in terms of capitalizing off of his own mix ups. Ryu is a very assist dependent character between needing a lockdown assist to open someone up with fuzzies/overhead, needing a get in assist and needing an OTG assist to combo off of throws. We fixed many of these issues to make him a more versatile character and this was the finishing touch to the character that we felt he needed to be a truly complete character.
Assists: Hadoken L, Tatsumaki Senpukyaku H, Hado Shoruyken
The main change here is that we replaced the regular Shoryuken with the Hado Shoryuken. This Shoryuken while much slower does give much more vertical coverage which would be useful in certain match ups. It should be noted that Ryu is vulnerable when he is coming out but during the charge he is still invincible. We felt that the long charge time was more than enough time to justify it being an assist.
Storm
+Lightning Sphere hitbox increased, recovery reduced significantly, chargeable for a larger hitbox/hitstun, H version now has slight tracking.
This is a pretty useless move in the neutral. At first glance it looks like an Air Play like move but upon closer inspection it is in fact a much inferior move thanks to higher recovery. We felt that this move should act more like Air Play in terms of frame data as well as it having a different utility for its H version which travels at a useless angle. We decided to give the H version slight tracking, nothing too much just enough to give it some utility. We also suggested that this move be chargeable like Air Play so it becomes bigger and has more hit stun.
+Double Typhoon now reaches to superjump height; startup reduced from 63 frames to 42 frames.
It makes no sense for Double Typhoon to not reach super jump height when a move like Purification does. That made the move a very poor choice in the neutral but even then the start up was so bad that hardly anyone really used it. A start up change was necessary to make this move more useful but we had to be careful to not go overboard as we do realize that she can use this move in the air unlike Dormammu and it has quite a lot of hit stun plus low recovery which means that it could be used for extended loops. We felt that 42 frames start up was good enough, it is still a slow move.
+Elemental Rage may now be X-Factor canceled upon the wall bounce occurring for a follow-up
We are unsure if this change can be implemented because we realize that this move is in fact a cinematic hyper and cinematic hypers cannot be X factor cancelled. We feel that in order to give the move more utility you should at least be able to combo after it if you X factor. It would allow Storm to have a nice trick up her sleeve in anchor situations.
+Lightning Storm soft knockdown on all but the last hit
This change was suggested mostly for DHC synergy purposes and to bring the move closer to its MVC2 counter part. Right now Hailstorm is almost always the superior choice in terms of combo enders because it is easier to DHC into. This change would greatly increase Storm's team synergy with other characters.
+Flight startup reduced to 15 frames.
This is mostly a change for parity to bring her flight closer to other flight character. This would also allow her to have better and more consistent combos which would allow her to have slightly more meter gain.
+Storm may now call assists when using Float after super jumping but is only restricted to one assist call at super jump height before she lands or is reset in the air
We thought that this was a very unique and cool ability that Storm had in Vanilla. However we also realize why Capcom removed it, they didn't want Storm to hang in super jump height and keep calling Dark Harmonizer assist to build meter. We suggested that she would be able to call one assist during one sequence of super jump Float and she would have to be reset in mid or land to be able to call an assist. This is a nice middle ground with this particular attribute of Storm.
(I had to fix this because it was not updated)
+Fair/Foul Wind active frames reduced to 20, total opposing character movement unchange
A slight change to make this move more usable in the neutral. The active frames were a bit high so we shaved them off a bit.
+Whirlwind startup time reduced by 5 (all versions); durability and instance creation now beam-based; L version is 5x1, M version is 7x1, and H version is 9x1; all versions now travel full screen.
All these changes were suggested so that this move would be viable as a zoning which right now it lacks severely in. We reworked the durability of the move to give it a durability system that makes more sense. These changes also improve the move as an assist.
+No longer mentions T’Challa in her battle quotes.
+c.L and s.L now chain into s.H and c.H successfully.
Changes to her chains to give her better hit confirms.
Assists: Whirlwind H, Typhoon (Tracking), Lightning Sphere H
Two main her changes the first being that Typhoon is a tracking assist. This is a change similar to the one suggested for Dormammu. Because this move does not cause any type of soft knockdown or hard knockdown it would still be worse than Vajra but the big hit box of the move would still make it useful in controlling flight characters. The other assist change is replacing a completely useless assist with a semi tracking projectile that could result in some cool gimmicks at the bare minimum.
The characters that are left I am not too familiar with but I can take a shot. Definitely not touching Shuma, Phoenix Wright and I am pretty sure you can tackle Super Skrull yourself since you play him.
-Magnetic Blast is now +15 on block and has 3 frames of landing recovery.
Magneto is generally considered a top 5 character in UMVC3 and a major component to him being so dominating is his Magnetic Blast. Magnetic Blast is a move that is already excellent on paper... 5 durability points, slow moving, angled down, high hit stun/block stun, usable in combos etc. The only negative side to the move is its high air recovery... which is now an irrelevant attribute of the move since Magneto players have figured out ways to plink dash close to the ground and get instantaneous ground recovery for the move. The safety that this move provides along with the absurd frame advantage is what allows Magneto to dominate so many match ups similar to how he dominated matches in Vanilla with his high block stun EMD (which was nerfed accordingly).
When trying to figure out how to change the move without completely destroying the move or the character it was quite a challenge. It was recommended that we lower the durability from 5 to 4 but that was not a good change because that would mean that the Morrigan vs Magneto match up would be more in Morrigan's favor. A lot of people recommended adding ground recovery to the move as that was the crux of the problem with the move, its safety. We couldn't add too much recovery to the move because it would impact his fluidity and combos/confirms too much so we settled with 3 frame ground recovery. Furthermore the move was still impervious to chicken blocking/trip guard so we decided to lower block stun/frame advantage of the move so that rushdown only characters would have less of a miserable time blocking Magnetic Blasts at close range. If increasing the landing recovery impact his combos/confirms then we are fine with Capcom fine tuning the hit stun of the move to compensate for any side effects of this change. We obviously don't want to nerf Magneto's combos/confirms off of Magnetic Blasts, the concern is more about how advantageous the move is in the neutral.
Ryu
+Hado Kakusei no longer causes Ryu’s health to drain; startup reduced to 0+4; duration increased to 750 frames; no longer allows meter to be built during its duration.
The health drain on this utility hyper was an unneeded side effect. When some utility hypers actually gain the player health it made no sense to have a negative side effect on an already pretty mediocre hyper. The main issue with this utility hyper was that it was mainly a combo hyper meter... you only used it if you wanted big damage in combos. We felt that like other utility hypers it should be more useful in the neutral and allow Ryu to become a better character much like Dante/Vergil/Wolverine do when they power up. For this reason we increased the duration to match the duration of other similar hypers. We realized that increasing duration would result in absurd combos that would build back the meter used to start up the hyper so we removed meter gain during the hyper for balance purposes. Right now this doesn't seem like much of a buff to the hyper (increase duration for loss of meter gain) but once the changes on the special moves for the hyper are showcased it will make more sense.
+Aerial Shinku Hadoken can now be aimed upward
This is a change mostly to allow Ryu to give additional damage from stray Shoryuken hits. Right now he gets nothing off of his standard Shoryuken which means the risk/reward ratio is just not there. Most DPs in this game allow the player to get either an air hyper or in most cases a full combo off of them so it made little sense for Ryu to get almost nothing out of his.
+Hadoken recovery reduced by 10 frames across the board; Hado Kakusei Hadoken now has 10 durability points.
For a fairly linear slow moving fireball the recovery on the move was pretty high which made it easily punishable by tri dashers and other fast characters. This change makes it more in line with Akuma's fireball which are still punishable but much more usable. Had Kakusei Hadoken is the Hadoken during Ryu's powered up state and we felt that the fireball should have more durability during this state to allow him some advantage in projectile warfare which as of now he has very little of.
+Baku Hadoken startup reduced to 30 frames; recovery reduced to 20 frames; now aimable like Shinku Hadoken; causes OTG ground bounce when aimed downward; 10 projectile durability.
This was one of the moves added to Ryu that sees very little usage because of its limited functionality. You can charge it for some frames and it causes a wall bounce but the durability was really low for it to do anything when projectiles were flying around so we decided to add more durability to it (note that the 10 durability is only applied at max charge). We also improved its speed so that it can be used in more situations but more importantly we made it aimable. During the charge you can aim the direction and like Shinku Hadoken he can fire it in the appropriate direction. If aimed downwards it would cause a ground bounce and against a hard knockdowned opponent it will it hit OTG. This change was mostly suggested to give Ryu comboability after an air throw which he needs as he lacks any sort of OTG move outside of a super.
+Ren Hadoken negates pushblock; -5 on block; now fires 4 fireballs max
It was difficult to figure out a way to make this move useful without completely reworking. We decided to give it pushblock negation... a property that is on very few moves. This would allow the move to be used as a way to set up assist based mix ups especially on incoming characters.
+Shin Tatsumaki Senpukyaku now causes spinning knockdown; comboable
This is a buff added to give more reward for using it as a read or to counter something. The hyper sees very little use especially in the neutral.
+Hado Kakusei Tatsumaki Senpukyaku now ignores projectiles
This is a buff to bring the move more like its SF counter part as well as more like Akuma's. This change makes Ryu's Tatsu assist a very powerful assist as its very similar to Akuma's Tatsu although you will have to burn a bar to have access to it. This will also allow Ryu to have more options against other zoners in terms of getting in and makes the powered up hyper much more appealing.
+Hado Kakusei Shoryuken and Hado Shoryuken hitstun increased significantly
Since we buffed all the other powered up specials we thought it was only right we would buff up the special Shoryukens too. These changes allow Ryu to combo off of his Shoryken when he is powered up giving him yet another dangerous tool for the opponent to be wary of. The charge Shoryuken also gains a similar buff and it becomes a very threatening super jump move against fliers (right now if someone gets tagged by this move they just shrug off, fly and start air dashing around).
+Untechable time after air throws increased by 30 frame
This change was mostly suggested to allow Ryu to have enough time after his throw to self combo with Baku Hadoken.
+j.L hitstun increased to allow links into Tatsumaki Senpukyaku L.
A change made so that Ryu is more self sufficient in terms of capitalizing off of his own mix ups. Ryu is a very assist dependent character between needing a lockdown assist to open someone up with fuzzies/overhead, needing a get in assist and needing an OTG assist to combo off of throws. We fixed many of these issues to make him a more versatile character and this was the finishing touch to the character that we felt he needed to be a truly complete character.
Assists: Hadoken L, Tatsumaki Senpukyaku H, Hado Shoruyken
The main change here is that we replaced the regular Shoryuken with the Hado Shoryuken. This Shoryuken while much slower does give much more vertical coverage which would be useful in certain match ups. It should be noted that Ryu is vulnerable when he is coming out but during the charge he is still invincible. We felt that the long charge time was more than enough time to justify it being an assist.
Storm
+Lightning Sphere hitbox increased, recovery reduced significantly, chargeable for a larger hitbox/hitstun, H version now has slight tracking.
This is a pretty useless move in the neutral. At first glance it looks like an Air Play like move but upon closer inspection it is in fact a much inferior move thanks to higher recovery. We felt that this move should act more like Air Play in terms of frame data as well as it having a different utility for its H version which travels at a useless angle. We decided to give the H version slight tracking, nothing too much just enough to give it some utility. We also suggested that this move be chargeable like Air Play so it becomes bigger and has more hit stun.
+Double Typhoon now reaches to superjump height; startup reduced from 63 frames to 42 frames.
It makes no sense for Double Typhoon to not reach super jump height when a move like Purification does. That made the move a very poor choice in the neutral but even then the start up was so bad that hardly anyone really used it. A start up change was necessary to make this move more useful but we had to be careful to not go overboard as we do realize that she can use this move in the air unlike Dormammu and it has quite a lot of hit stun plus low recovery which means that it could be used for extended loops. We felt that 42 frames start up was good enough, it is still a slow move.
+Elemental Rage may now be X-Factor canceled upon the wall bounce occurring for a follow-up
We are unsure if this change can be implemented because we realize that this move is in fact a cinematic hyper and cinematic hypers cannot be X factor cancelled. We feel that in order to give the move more utility you should at least be able to combo after it if you X factor. It would allow Storm to have a nice trick up her sleeve in anchor situations.
+Lightning Storm soft knockdown on all but the last hit
This change was suggested mostly for DHC synergy purposes and to bring the move closer to its MVC2 counter part. Right now Hailstorm is almost always the superior choice in terms of combo enders because it is easier to DHC into. This change would greatly increase Storm's team synergy with other characters.
+Flight startup reduced to 15 frames.
This is mostly a change for parity to bring her flight closer to other flight character. This would also allow her to have better and more consistent combos which would allow her to have slightly more meter gain.
+Storm may now call assists when using Float after super jumping but is only restricted to one assist call at super jump height before she lands or is reset in the air
We thought that this was a very unique and cool ability that Storm had in Vanilla. However we also realize why Capcom removed it, they didn't want Storm to hang in super jump height and keep calling Dark Harmonizer assist to build meter. We suggested that she would be able to call one assist during one sequence of super jump Float and she would have to be reset in mid or land to be able to call an assist. This is a nice middle ground with this particular attribute of Storm.
(I had to fix this because it was not updated)
+Fair/Foul Wind active frames reduced to 20, total opposing character movement unchange
A slight change to make this move more usable in the neutral. The active frames were a bit high so we shaved them off a bit.
+Whirlwind startup time reduced by 5 (all versions); durability and instance creation now beam-based; L version is 5x1, M version is 7x1, and H version is 9x1; all versions now travel full screen.
All these changes were suggested so that this move would be viable as a zoning which right now it lacks severely in. We reworked the durability of the move to give it a durability system that makes more sense. These changes also improve the move as an assist.
+No longer mentions T’Challa in her battle quotes.
+c.L and s.L now chain into s.H and c.H successfully.
Changes to her chains to give her better hit confirms.
Assists: Whirlwind H, Typhoon (Tracking), Lightning Sphere H
Two main her changes the first being that Typhoon is a tracking assist. This is a change similar to the one suggested for Dormammu. Because this move does not cause any type of soft knockdown or hard knockdown it would still be worse than Vajra but the big hit box of the move would still make it useful in controlling flight characters. The other assist change is replacing a completely useless assist with a semi tracking projectile that could result in some cool gimmicks at the bare minimum.
racketpunch
Member
Anyone up for some marvel?
Edit: OK I'm ready now. If anyone is up for some games then let me know.
Edit: OK I'm ready now. If anyone is up for some games then let me know.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
What system are you on?