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UN: Marijuana-related health problems on rise in US

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Matugi

Member
yeah, i'm positively fuming right now. not sure how i'll return to my daily activities. i literally can't even rn
 
do you know what a strawman is? It's the implication that an argument is being created, which it's not, for the sole purpose of defeating said argument so you come out on top.

A strawman is misrepresentation of the other persons argument, which is what is being done. One person says weed can have a certain effect on the brain of those susceptible, the next responds that so do other substances. That was never in debate.

Both sides are doing it.
 

GRIP

Member
do you know what a strawman is? It's the implication that an argument is being created, which it's not, for the sole purpose of defeating said argument so you come out on top.

umm.... okay? That's exactly what people are doing when they start bringing up how harmful other substances are when no one is saying otherwise.
 

Doc_Drop

Member
I don't think anyone can seriously rationalise that cannabis is harmless, either on here or in real life. Anyone who tries is mostly ill-informed.

I think a main issue is that there are many arguments brought up by governments to try and justify their stances on it by using arguments of the health effects, both physical and mental, which can be said about most substances. And after hearing that for many years, it becomes very annoying to those who would like to see it decriminalised.

For example, UK government fired the medical advisor on drug policy because he said that cannabis and MDA have been misrepresented in terms of harmful effects compared to alcohol and cigarettes
 

Nyx

Member
A strawman is misrepresentation of the other persons argument, which is what is being done. One person says weed can have a certain effect on the brain of those susceptible, the next responds that so do other substances. That was never in debate.

Both sides are doing it.

I presume the argument was used to say ''ok guys Marijuana is dangerous'' while that could be said of any substance then when we look at people with a tendency for a mental illness.

So why bring it up then?

We could then also say Coca Cola is dangerous and should be banned, because of the caffeine.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
A strawman is misrepresentation of the other persons argument, which is what is being done. One person says weed can have a certain effect on the brain of those susceptible, the next responds that so do other substances. That was never in debate.

Both sides are doing it.

The comparisons tend to come out when people who drink alcohol and/or smoke are all "naw, man, we cannot legalise cannabis because it's so dangerous".
I think it's mainly done do point out the hypocrisy. They want their own drug legal but still fight tooth and nail to keep a less dangerous drug banned.
 
The comparisons tend to come out when people who drink alcohol and/or smoke are all "naw, man, we cannot legalise cannabis because it's so dangerous".
I think it's mainly done do point out the hypocrisy. They want their own drug legal but still fight tooth and nail to keep a less dangerous drug banned.

To be honest, I couldn't care less if it's banned or not. I managed to smoke it for years despite it being illegal where I live.

I'm seeing hypocrisy on both sides of the argument.

My personal thoughts on weed are that it's good fun, I love the stuff. The way it smells, tastes, being high, everything. I stopped smoking it because I could feel it affecting me and wanted to have a clear head.

I think some of you guys are thinking that I am vehemently anti-weed which isn't true. I'm pro-choice on the subject and would have no issue with legalisation. I just wish there was more proper education on the pros and cons, rather than propaganda from the pro and anti-weed folks.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
I think some of you guys are thinking that I am vehemently anti-weed which isn't true. I'm pro-choice on the subject and would have no issue with legalisation. I just wish there was more proper education on the pros and cons, rather than propaganda from the pro and anti-weed folks.

That would be welcome, yes.
I'm just used to the debate in Sweden, i guess. The prohibition side here is about as progressive and reasonable as an Iranian mullah.
 
The comparisons tend to come out when people who drink alcohol and/or smoke are all "naw, man, we cannot legalise cannabis because it's so dangerous".
I think it's mainly done do point out the hypocrisy. They want their own drug legal but still fight tooth and nail to keep a less dangerous drug banned.

Seriously, who fights tooth and nail to get marijuana banned anymore? Like, temperance unions do, but ... they're usually not the first people crushing 30-racks of bud ice, either.
 

Zoe

Member
lashing out about people saying it's harmless does not a rational argument make when not a single rational person in this thread has claimed it's harmless, anecdotal hearsay be damned

Are these not calling it harmless?

As in an example or something, I've smoked my fair share and could never see why I would have needed to go to a hospital.
More hospital visits? How does someone go to hospital for a weed related problem?? The worst that can happen to you smoking weed is you get hungry and fall asleep.

Especially considering this was posted just shortly before those:

As someone that has had an ambulance round to my house in the early hours of the morning after the most insane panic attack after freaking out on weed, i can confirm this. I literally thought I was having a heart attack. My chest was in an incredible amount of pain, I couldnt breathe, I couldnt stop shaking. I had pretty much accepted death was a possibility at that point, I was well aware panic attacks could leave you feeling like you were having a heart attack, chest pains, struggling to breathe etc, but this was far beyond anything I had ever experienced in my life.

Never touched weed since.
 

Courage

Member
Citing statistics from before the legalization took effect, the number of people in the United States age 12 or older who used cannabis at least once in the previous year rose to 12.1 percent in 2012, from 10.3 percent in 2008, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).

Increased pot use by Americans is partly fueled by a misperception of the health risks, the UNODC report said. It cautioned that although the public may perceive marijuana to be the least harmful of illicit drugs, there has been a noticeable increase in the number of people seeking treatment for cannabis-use disorders over the past decade.

In the U.S. from 2006 to 2010, there was a 59 percent increase in cannabis-related hospital emergency room visits and a 14 percent increase in cannabis-related treatment admissions, the report said.

Additionally, the report found that there was more tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in seized cannabis crops in the U.S, with levels rising to 11.9 percent in 2011, from 8.7 percent in 2007. THC is the main mind-altering chemical found in marijuana.

No link to these studies? Would like to know sample size.
 

Matugi

Member
A strawman is misrepresentation of the other persons argument, which is what is being done. One person says weed can have a certain effect on the brain of those susceptible, the next responds that so do other substances. That was never in debate.

Both sides are doing it.

It would be a strawman if others were saying "how can you be against weed but in favor of alcohol/cigarettes when all are equally harmful?"

But I digress. I am pros legalization but I rarely smoke. I'm a pre-med student too and I'm well aware of all of the benefits and harms of weed. One of the labs I'm hoping to get into next semester deals with cannabis from a neurological standpoint. I'll leave it at that.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
Seriously, who fights tooth and nail to get marijuana banned anymore? Like, temperance unions do, but ... they're usually not the first people crushing 30-racks of bud ice, either.

We have a minister of justice who posted the spoof article on colorado-legislation causing 50 cannabis overdose-deaths in a single day (if you remember?). She thought the article was true and resolved to keep fighting the good fight against cannabis. Later in the week she was seen drunk in public.
 
Especially considering this was posted just shortly before those:

But the guy was OK, he wasn't really in need of medical attention.

If more information about the possible effects had been available at the moment of purchase in a legal environment, it might have turned out differently.
 

PorllM

Banned
Are these not calling it harmless?




Especially considering this was posted just shortly before those:

I wasn't calling it harmless, no. For a start inhaling burning matter is never going to be completely harmless, whatever it is, and of course it has an effect on your brain so situations like high people injuring themselves due to not paying proper attention are always going to happen.

I just meant that you'll never be in serious trouble to the extent that you need to be hospitalised, caused directly by smoking weed. You can't overdose on it and die like cocaine, you can't smoke so much you have no control over yourself like alcohol. Probably the worst possible thing that can happen is a panic attack like the one you quoted, but as terrifying as I'm sure that was, I don't think hospital was strictly necessary. Someone in that situation might feel like they're going to die, and that sense of panic might speed the heart rate and worsen the situation, but there is no evidence, ever, anywhere, showing that marijuana has ever caused a death, so that would be purely a bad feeling caused by the temporarily changed mental state, unless they were legitimately having an unrelated heart attack. I've had a similar episode 5-6 years ago and it passed after a friend spoke to me calmly and explained that I was fine.
 
We have a minister of justice who posted the spoof article on colorado-legislation causing 50 cannabis overdose-deaths in a single day (if you remember?). She thought the article was true and resolved to keep fighting the good fight against cannabis. Later in the week she was seen drunk in public.

I had to look it up because this was such an obscure anecdotal point, but in any event that's not what happened according to the BBC: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/07/sweden-justice-minister-spoof-marijuana-deaths-story

point is, nobody "fights marijuana tooth and nail" and then tries to fight for the legality of things like drinking and smoking. The people who usually fight "tooth and nail" against marijuana are usually against other perceived vices as well.

Alternatively, stop pretending that someone who doesn't agree with your opinion about something is "fighting you tooth and nail." They're not. They just don't fucking care.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
I had to look it up because this was such an obscure anecdotal point, but in any event that's not what happened according to the BBC: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/07/sweden-justice-minister-spoof-marijuana-deaths-story

point is, nobody "fights marijuana tooth and nail" and then tries to fight for the legality of things like drinking and smoking. The people who usually fight "tooth and nail" against marijuana are usually against other perceived vices as well.

Alternatively, stop pretending that someone who doesn't agree with your opinion about something is "fighting you tooth and nail." They're not. They just don't fucking care.

No, what i said is exactly what happened in regards to our minister of justice. I don't get how it's "an obscure point" at all. It's a perfect illustration of the situation in Sweden.
All those things you describe as "things that usually don't happen", happens. A lot. The resistance is fierce and fundamentalist. And they don't mind getting drunk as a rule. It's the vodka belt after all.
 

MogCakes

Member
What a volatile thread. There are strawmen and assumptions to go around it would seem.

"Pot is completely harmless" - there are a couple posts implying this, but the majority of the posters haven't said it and were quick to distance themselves from this.

"Alcohol and Tobacco are bad too but are legal" - assumes the poster in question is against legalization of marijuana, which isn't being debated at all and is completely tangent to the actual topic.

"Cannabis users are all being intelligent, all the anti-weed people are just spewing nebulous bullshit and lies" - made by exactly one person and not a strawman, but I'll mention it because it's pretty much the apex of how immature this 'discussion' is getting.

I think we can at least agree that the article in the OP doesn't have much in the way of hard scientific fact, which is the only thing that will really* put the debate of cannabis's side effects to rest.

*not really.
 

King_Moc

Banned
Last time I smoked it my heart lost rhythm for about 2 minutes, my heart rate was easily over 200 bpm. All of my limbs went numb, then I passed out. I suffer from panic attacks, and that was no panic attack.
 

Hale-XF11

Member
For starters, we need more widespread education on the incredibly wide variety of strains (indica vs. sativa vs. hybrids) as well as THC to CBD ratios and how those things affect us.

I suspect that people who experience panic attack-like symptoms are using sativa dominant strains with a higher level of THC.

Unfortunately, as many of us know, in states where it's illegal, many people simply don't know what they're getting from their dealer or for that matter that different strains affect us all differently. To people not in the know or who are new to it, marijuana is just marijuana.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
PRE-brownie.jpg_2033098437.jpg

This can be worse than smoking weed.
 
What the fuck are they talking about? You get these sentences about general emergency room visits on the rise, but literally none of the information you want: why? What are they going to hospitals for? Are they just super high and think they're dying when they're totally fine?

"Marijuana-related health problems" is just an easy scare. Give us the meat.

QFT

I read the quote in the OP and there are almost no specifics in the article. It's a rehash of every other article I see stating the adverse effects of weed.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
In effect like in its potency? or like it will get you fat and high?

Anyone getting bent out of shape over this internet businesses should stop coming to the internet, it's totally not worth it.

In its potency
 

Boem

Member
I don't think you should let that stop you from posting in threads like this though. I'm very much pro weed and if you look at my posts in this thread alone you'll see that your opinion very much mirrors my own. Granted I do get a little dismissive of posts that are regurgitating propaganda and misinformation but it can get old seeing the same thing over and over. When my posting blinders are off I at least try to explain to them why they may be incorrect in my opinion.

Besides you can't have a discussion with only one viewpoint.

I know, I wish I could keep joining these discussions, it's purely a personal flaw that I can't. The problems I created for myself through my drug use represent the darkest period of my life - the way someone who suggests that a discussion about (mental) health issues because of using weed gets ridiculed and accused of pushing an agenda or employing scare tactics makes it a bit too personal for me. I think it's perfectly possible to use the stuff without destroying their lives, and I think that people should be able to use and enjoy it if they want to. But I also think that the reality of serious possible consequences can not be denied at this point, and cutting any attempt at a conversation about this short like that is hurtful to me. I wish it wasn't, and that I wouldn't take it so personally because I know that's not how people intend it. It's a flaw. But seeing close friends continue to suffer in the same situation I was under a couple of years ago and the guilt that comes with that (I enabled their situation for years) just doesn't make me able to join this crowd. The majority of Gaf isn't ready to listen to opinions like that at this point. I guess it's in part because a lot of them are based in the US, and the legalisation of weed is fairly new. It's hard to consider the bad parts without getting labeled as anti-weed. It's been legal in my country since the 70s, so public/scientific opinion has been evened out a lot more without people getting accused of pushing social or political agendas. For every poster who keeps a level head during these discussions there are 9 others who keep shouting 'no one ever died from weed!' 'I bet you don't drink coffee or alcohol too, right?' 'Famous scientist x smoked all the time', or, on the other end of the spectrum 'every one who does it turns into a no-brained loser'. There's apparently no middle road possible on Gaf where people can discuss these issues like adults without trying to push others into a black-and-white scenario.

This post already turned out way too long, so I'll leave it at this. I'm fine with people not believing that people suffering from the issues discussed in this topic are real, I just can't force myself to read it anymore. It hits too close to home.
 

RayMaker

Banned
Well cannabis like many other drugs can be very bad for you.

As Howard marks said these 3 things will determine a persons experience with a drug

self, substance and surroundings.
 
I know, I wish I could keep joining these discussions, it's purely a personal flaw that I can't. The problems I created for myself through my drug use represent the darkest period of my life - the way someone who suggests that a discussion about (mental) health issues because of using weed gets ridiculed and accused of pushing an agenda or employing scare tactics makes it a bit too personal for me. I think it's perfectly possible to use the stuff without destroying their lives, and I think that people should be able to use and enjoy it if they want to. But I also think that the reality of serious possible consequences can not be denied at this point, and cutting any attempt at a conversation about this short like that is hurtful to me. I wish it wasn't, and that I wouldn't take it so personally because I know that's not how people intend it. It's a flaw. But seeing close friends continue to suffer in the same situation I was under a couple of years ago and the guilt that comes with that (I enabled their situation for years) just doesn't make me able to join this crowd. The majority of Gaf isn't ready to listen to opinions like that at this point. I guess it's in part because a lot of them are based in the US, and the legalisation of weed is fairly new. It's hard to consider the bad parts without getting labeled as anti-weed. It's been legal in my country since the 70s, so public/scientific opinion has been evened out a lot more without people getting accused of pushing social or political agendas. For every poster who keeps a level head during these discussions there are 9 others who keep shouting 'no one ever died from weed!' 'I bet you don't drink coffee or alcohol too, right?' 'Famous scientist x smoked all the time', or, on the other end of the spectrum 'every one who does it turns into a no-brained loser'. There's apparently no middle road possible on Gaf where people can discuss these issues like adults without trying to push others into a black-and-white scenario.

This post already turned out way too long, so I'll leave it at this. I'm fine with people not believing that people suffering from the issues discussed in this topic are real, I just can't force myself to read it anymore. It hits too close to home.
Who is doing this?

I think you're reading people say "this article and most things about weed are bullshit," which is completely true because it's just slimy propaganda, and you're taking it as a personal offense when it has nothing to do with your situation at all. No one is denying that these things can happen, and I actually feel like I've read more about legit weed panic attacks and problems in this thread than I have read anyone try to be skeptical of it.
 

J-Rod

Member
I think part of the reason it gives some people panic attacks is because they have learned to be scared of weed. That coupled with how it increases paranoia make some people freak out. Someone may try it because of peer pressure or whatever or do too much their first time and it leads to a panic attack. I'm not saying that is always the case, just my perception.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I don't think that father will ever care about the legal status of the herb he's smoking. Making pot legal will not really affect the people that already smoke daily, but some of them at least might get their stuff through legal means and add to the tax income.

Do you guys realize that some countries add drug revenue to their BNP already, just to make them look better.

When they raided that marihuana producing village in Albania last month, they effectively destroyed 50% of the country's BNP!

And on another note: creating a taboo around illegal drugs has another adverse effect; one day a kid that's has been told horrible tales about weed actually gets to try it and likes it very much. There's no real drawback and he has no hangover. What about those other drugs, about which the same horrible tales were told? Because obviously the government has been lying about at least this one!

All reasons to just come clean, legalize it, tax it. And enjoy it, that's what I've been doing for about 20 years, and I have a job in IT, own a house in the suburbs, have a wife and four cats and haven't been sick except for a yearly cold in literally decades.
I think you might of misunderstood my post. It had nothing to do with the legalization but rather I was referring to "second hand marijuana smoke" for lack of a better term, and the effect it might have on other people such as children, in say, a small room. Again though, I'm playing devil's advocate on this and not arguing a point.
 

neoism

Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWhUqo9Aivs

lol threads like these are funny...
I just dont fucking get it... there is NOT ONE report of someone DYING after smoking weed. :/ I smoke EAIRA DAY.... I've had one or two panic attacks also after smoking some awesome shit after taking a break, but it passed and I just continued to smoke and it didn't happen again. Been smoking weed for 5 years, is that bad for my health, more than likely, will I get cancer most likely no. I've yet to see someone get CANCER from only smoking weed... I do vap as well but the pipe is just easier. I dont drink(anymore) I dont smoke cigs. In 10,000 years we have been smoking weed not one person has died from it.
I just don't understand.
 

Madness

Member
I suspect edibles are going to be at fault. The potency of edibles can flatten someone who isn't a regular cannabis user.

But wouldn't edibles also completely do away with one of the main risks of smoking Marijuana, which is the effect on the esophagus and lungs? If you can get the same high, without having to inhale the smoke, isn't that better? Just curious.
 
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