RustyNails
Member
Woah this thread picked up. I should have linked to the study in the article in my op: Adverse Cardiovascular, Cerebrovascular, and Peripheral Vascular Effects of Marijuana Inhalation: What Cardiologists Need to Know
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UN: Marijuana-related health problems on rise in US
- Thread starter RustyNails
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It was a cheeky way of saying you were exaggerating by calling me misogynist.
Look, we both know you don't actually care, and you're not actually offended.
We've both digressed in any case.
SamuelSupreme
Banned
Should I feel bad that I'm reading this while smoking a spliff and playing FFX HD?
Do you understand the concept of statistical significance?
googleplex
Member
Again.. where are the numbers?
We KNOW how many cancer death there are a year. We KNOW cigarettes cause cancer.
We KNOW how many cigarette smokers die a year.
We KNOW how many alcoholic die of liver diseases a year
We KNOW how many people are killed by drunk drivers a year.
The united state is very good at three things: Record keeping, Scaring the shit out if our populous and spendingmoney on the war on drugs.
And in +60 years of the demonizing Marijuana we have 0 recorded deaths that can be directly linked to Marijuana use.
To be fair, the U.S. is good at keeping records of things it keeps records on. It's kind of hard to do an accurate sample study on the use of an illicit drug, instead of legal things like alcohol and cigarettes which many more people per capita consumed, and consumed openly.
But then you have medical weed, which has been legal in California for 18 years. If people were dying, you can be sure they would let us know.
Yep, rubbish article.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Honestly, it seems like a fairly balanced news report that doesn't really make any exaggerated claims. I'm perplexed by the strong reaction of some posters here. I guess marijuana is a bit of a sacred cow.
Maninthemirror
Banned
If you look at it closely , this study did not assume that there was an increase or decrease of alcohol use or smoking use . The statistics shown by un shows that all things being equal (alchohol use and smoking) there was an increase of marijuana related illnesses
It makes no claims other than generalised ones. It is a terrible article.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
What does the article literally say to you? Because the closest thing to anything real that isn't just fuzzy language and vague negative terms is one sentence that says something about cardiac arrest but also doesn't provide any statistics or sources for it. There's another sentence about 59% more hospital visits, but no clarification on what it means, how they gather that it's tied to marijuana, or how it's happening. They form the conclusion that it's just because marijuana has more THC now, which they figured out based on just guessing at it, I assume.
Look at how it uses terms like "trend may be contributing." They even know it's horseshit.
googleplex
Member
Dude we KNOW how many americans die every year of heroin, PCP and cocaine overdoses. Those things are just as illicit as marijuana. I'll say it again 0 recorded deaths directly linked to Marijuana useage.
For the record I'm not a smoker of any type. But Marijuana being illegal is fucking ridiculous in a world where alcohol, tobacco, and high fructose corn syrup is ok.
While I think the report source is most likely subject to confirmation bias (seriously - a dept with the words 'Drugs and Crime' in its name is obviously in the habit of being objective about drugs), there are cardiovascular issues associated with cannabis insofar as it lowers blood pressure but increases heart rate.
Couple that if you're rolling with tobacco, and you could in theory see a long-term rise in CV issues related to smoking (note, smoking) cannabis - altho you'd need at least a couple of controls (non-users, vapers, eaters), and need to account for other lifestyle factors as well.
Also - how many of these people had either overdone it by taking too much, or were having a serious whitey for not following the golden rule of not smoking when you're drunk? Shit, I've been toking for nearly 3 decades and I still forget that one about once every couple of years.
Still - DON'T SMOKE! Vape or eat.
Couple that if you're rolling with tobacco, and you could in theory see a long-term rise in CV issues related to smoking (note, smoking) cannabis - altho you'd need at least a couple of controls (non-users, vapers, eaters), and need to account for other lifestyle factors as well.
Also - how many of these people had either overdone it by taking too much, or were having a serious whitey for not following the golden rule of not smoking when you're drunk? Shit, I've been toking for nearly 3 decades and I still forget that one about once every couple of years.
Still - DON'T SMOKE! Vape or eat.
IISANDERII
Member
Really, what countries have legalized is your arbitrary measurement? Don't think it's possible to have picked a worse standard. Prescription meds produced by pharmaceuticals, approved by government, prescribed by medical personnel are exponentially more harmful than cannabis in any form. Prescription Painkillers Leave 100 Dead Per Day in the United States
Uh huh.
Funny how you claim to be here to clear up myths but are ignorant of the most basic facts.
Yep, I never swallow my weed, and also never swallow my paracetamol either. WHAT?
Wolfe
Member
I don't think you should let that stop you from posting in threads like this though. I'm very much pro weed and if you look at my posts in this thread alone you'll see that your opinion very much mirrors my own. Granted I do get a little dismissive of posts that are regurgitating propaganda and misinformation but it can get old seeing the same thing over and over. When my posting blinders are off I at least try to explain to them why they may be incorrect in my opinion.
Besides you can't have a discussion with only one viewpoint.
Wolfe
Member
I always found this interesting/amusing: The federal medical marijuana program.
Mohonky
Member
As someone that has had an ambulance round to my house in the early hours of the morning after the most insane panic attack after freaking out on weed, i can confirm this. I literally thought I was having a heart attack. My chest was in an incredible amount of pain, I couldnt breathe, I couldnt stop shaking. I had pretty much accepted death was a possibility at that point, I was well aware panic attacks could leave you feeling like you were having a heart attack, chest pains, struggling to breathe etc, but this was far beyond anything I had ever experienced in my life.
Never touched weed since.
ymoc
Member
Anecdotal I guess, but I've visited a local Mental hospital (dont know how you call it in English) and spoken with the director\manager earlier this year who told of the psychological impacts of pot. She said that it won't impact everyone, but for a person with a tendency towards mental illness (depression, anxiety, or worse things) smoking pot will pull them much closer or over the edge. Many people don't realize that a lot of them have a tendency towards these conditions and that the dangers are very real.
Smoking pot is not as safe as some are trying to make it out to be.
Smoking pot is not as safe as some are trying to make it out to be.
You do know that any substance can trigger a mental illness for a person with a tendency?
GeordieMark
Member
Something is definitely purposely being held back here.
More hospital visits? How does someone go to hospital for a weed related problem?? The worst that can happen to you smoking weed is you get hungry and fall asleep. I wonder if they're counting people with completely random unrelated injuries that were found to have marijuana in their system at the time?
More hospital visits? How does someone go to hospital for a weed related problem?? The worst that can happen to you smoking weed is you get hungry and fall asleep. I wonder if they're counting people with completely random unrelated injuries that were found to have marijuana in their system at the time?
Yes, the most commonly used is alcohol
Yeah I heard about a Portuguese article saying this too, seems like a load of bs, jumping to conclusions and taking correlation as causation. The worst thing about this is that it undermines te importance of understanding what side effects can actually come out of it, for example how it can affect people with schizophrenic tendencies.
Irishmantis
Member
I think it has both its bad sides and perks
my Parents stink my home with that shit! lol
i smoke it myself literally once a blue moon.
Ii think weed user's who use Alcohol in their examples, should think, averagely how many times so people drink Alcohol, once every weekend
How many times would you smoke weed, from what i seen alot everyday!
(i do agree Alcohol is much worse than weed, but typically Alcohol is used much more sporadically averagely i assume)
Another thing i notice from a lot people who smoke it on a daily basis, is that they are always stuck for cash and constantly owe money, plus they dont have jobs (nothing to do with marijuana i live in an area where a 3 bedroom is considered Upper class)
But on the contrary, i think it should be legal.
and as the heart attack example
Grapes are bad for diabetics, but Grapes would never give you them .
my Parents stink my home with that shit! lol
i smoke it myself literally once a blue moon.
Ii think weed user's who use Alcohol in their examples, should think, averagely how many times so people drink Alcohol, once every weekend
How many times would you smoke weed, from what i seen alot everyday!
(i do agree Alcohol is much worse than weed, but typically Alcohol is used much more sporadically averagely i assume)
Another thing i notice from a lot people who smoke it on a daily basis, is that they are always stuck for cash and constantly owe money, plus they dont have jobs (nothing to do with marijuana i live in an area where a 3 bedroom is considered Upper class)
But on the contrary, i think it should be legal.
and as the heart attack example
Grapes are bad for diabetics, but Grapes would never give you them .
Great guy! He recently testified in PA for its medical bill,which passed the Senate Law and Justice committee 11-0.
Skip to 61:50 http://law.pasenategop.com/2014/06/06/sb-1182-compassionate-use-of-medical-cannabis-act/
Madnesslink5
Member
Sorry if already explained, but what does
mean?
As in an example or something, I've smoked my fair share and could never see why I would have needed to go to a hospital.
mean?
As in an example or something, I've smoked my fair share and could never see why I would have needed to go to a hospital.
bobawesome
Member
GeordieMark
Member
That's another completely irrelevant point.
Maybe it is more commonly used but does one pint of lager have the same effect that one joint would have to the average person?
Edibles are the main concern, seeing some how idiots might end up eating too much and having a green out.
In the UK, there are a great number of people who drink literally everyday (not necessarily a lot). I think the comparison of alcohol and cannabis are actually more to do with regular usage of either, and the effects of such consumption.
The fact that you have noticed more people without jobs, little money, etc is a kind of chicken and egg scenario in that over all the cases one may preceed the other or vice versa with no particular pattern
Apologies, I was mostly considering regular usage rather than the one off usage. But in terms of one off usage, from my (relatively small) experience in healthcare, it's more of a key to unlock psychosis and mental health problems than the cause
kurisu_1974
Member
I don't think that father will ever care about the legal status of the herb he's smoking. Making pot legal will not really affect the people that already smoke daily, but some of them at least might get their stuff through legal means and add to the tax income.
Do you guys realize that some countries add drug revenue to their BNP already, just to make them look better.
When they raided that marihuana producing village in Albania last month, they effectively destroyed 50% of the country's BNP!
And on another note: creating a taboo around illegal drugs has another adverse effect; one day a kid that's has been told horrible tales about weed actually gets to try it and likes it very much. There's no real drawback and he has no hangover. What about those other drugs, about which the same horrible tales were told? Because obviously the government has been lying about at least this one!
All reasons to just come clean, legalize it, tax it. And enjoy it, that's what I've been doing for about 20 years, and I have a job in IT, own a house in the suburbs, have a wife and four cats and haven't been sick except for a yearly cold in literally decades.
GeordieMark
Member
No worries. Didn't mean to come across arsey.
I completely agree with that. I don't believe it is a cause either. I just think it's a much stronger drug than alcohol if you compare one joint to one drink.
Does one pint of lager have the same effect that one toke of a joint would? Does one joint have the same effect that one pint of whiskey would? Where are you choosing these arbitrary dose comparisons? Just, where you'd like?
GeordieMark
Member
Who rolls a joint and has one toke?
I'm going off the standard measure that people consume both by.
Good point
A lot of the suggestions that cannabis is a gateway drug seem to ignore that (in my experience) that most people will have tried tobacco and/or alcohol before cannabis. I think the effect that cannabis had (for me) is that, like you said, it opened my eyes to the stigma surrounding drugs and that most drugs are actually very enjoyable to experience.
Luckily for me my Dad is a GP (Doctor) and I was able to have rational discussions about cannabis use and effects/downsides. Hell, he even admitted to smoking hash during his time in Nottingham whilst studying Medicine
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
exactly this. And it keeps referring to youth usage too. Isn't the legal sale age prohibited? 21?
It's just anti-pot propaganda. Yes of course there will be health risks, it's up to the user to decide if the price of entry is worth it.
again with this strawman. stop. nobody is saying it's harmless
GeordieMark
Member
It's also a strawman to respond that other substances also have the same effect as cannabis. Nobody has said cannabis is the only substance with negative effects.
Not trying to target here, I only caught up recently on the thread and it seems a few people aren't engaging in the debate anymore.
For me, If I go out for a drink I will most likely have 3-4 pints of lager over 3-4 hours of a night out. More if i'm getting stinking drunk, less if I'm keeping it quiet.
When smoking, I'll only smoke a single sheet (size of small cigarrette) joint that will keep me high for a few hours.
But everyone is different.
ymoc
Member
What are you talking about???
I'm sorry if you feel so strongly about it, but I have different experiences than you. I have seen and heard people make such claims.
Strawman at me all night, I guess.
QuicheFontaine
Member
But you see how it builds the case for legalisation when other legal drugs have the same, or worse, negative effects?
do you know what a strawman is? It's the implication that an argument is being created, which it's not, for the sole purpose of defeating said argument so you come out on top.
if anything the bringing up of other substances is a non-sequitur at worst, a deflection of blame at best, but it's rational to consider when arguing that one substance should be legalized because other legal substances are just as harmful or potentially worse.
lashing out about people saying it's harmless does not a rational argument make when not a single rational person in this thread has claimed it's harmless, anecdotal hearsay be damned
ymoc
Member
Take a breath, calm down.
I was never lashing out at people. The only one lashing out here is you, friend. You might want to read my original post again to verify.
I never called out any poster in the thread, I merely gave my general perception of, you know, real life experiences. But I'll stop, since I'm clearly upsetting you.
I apologize.
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