MoonsaultSlayer
Member
It may be an issue, but it doesn't bother me.
But that isn't the main issue I'm addressing. Those examples of his frustration are simply demonstrations of poor play.
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UNCHARTED |OT| The Master Thief Collection
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But that isn't the main issue I'm addressing. Those examples of his frustration are simply demonstrations of poor play.
Which ones?
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Complaining about melee lock up while letting an enemy get close or running into a group of them. Scoping in and following a target which takes away your awareness of the surroundings, running forward to spawn another wave and sticking to the side of cover instead of behind it etc.
I think it depends how you play to be honest. Many of us have mentioned that Syria is poorly designed, but looking over some of these other videos, I can't help but feel papercuts is complaining because the game isn't easy enough, or that he can't get away with playing recklessly.
Why on Earth would you start melee'ing an enemy out of cover, whilst there is a turret shooting at you? Did he really expect to be able to pull off a melee fight in that scenario? Either run away whilst blind firing behind you, or jump in to the sea to find a better approach or new cover.
In the video after, he literally ran straight in to a group of enemies, expecting any other outcome other than death is a bit silly.
The one after that, the reason the enemy didn't die is because aside from missing several of the shots, the ones that did make contact hit the enemies shoulder and hand, which weren't enough for a kill. I do agree that it's utterly stupid the guy didn't flinch. The hit reactions are the biggest issue.
The next video, where he's shooting the laser enemy at a distance, the reason it's not making contact is because he's not aiming well, at all. There's this thing called recoil, and in Uncharted it's pretty realistic. Instead of firing continously with the reticule bouncing all over the place, stop shooting, let the recoil subside, and patiently aim for the head. Not that shooting a guy in the head with a pistol at such range was going to be easy in the first place.
I agree with some of the complaints, but I think Papercuts post is great in that it also shows many issues are simply down to user approach and/or error.
The melee lock was me running into a crowd and being unable to get away because the roll is overridden by grabbing, which is why I said in UC2 I wouldn't have died. I didn't realize there was a bunch of people there, went to get out and died. My main point is about that, mechanically, being outright stupid just in practice. On the shipyard I couldn't get away when the guy was near me, they punch and suction you into a fight.
Same with the video where I walk forward, spawn a new wave and instantly die to a rocket. I had no idea I was crossing an invisible trigger line, it was poorly placed and trial by fire. That's bad encounter design.
His point was that if you do get into that type of situation you should be able to escape. For the run and gun sandbox gameplay Uncharted strives to be that much is vital and the melee system prevented this. Not being able to roll away from melee completely contradicts the always on the move mantra as it means you never want to get into quick brawls during gunfights as it may lock you in and get you killed.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Exactly.
His complaint about enemies approaching.... This is designed to work for folks who may cower behind cover the whole time. It's probably a way to help get bad players to push on rather than forcing them out.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Question: Was this crushing? Crushing was originally designed with the mindset that you had already played through the game and knew what to expect.
Hard, which is what I just played 1 and 2 on before it.
I do agree that they should have remapped the button, but because you know circle is grab, just press x to get away instead. That's what I do in those extremely sticky close quarters scenarios anyway. Drake essentially just jumps away, and then when you're away from melee range, you can then roll if need be, or jump over obstacles, new cover etc. But usually a roll isn't required or recommended because you could also just accidently go in to cover.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Well that rocket death was a result of sticking to the side of the wall regardless. You can see enemies approaching up ahead just before you do so which means that was a bad spot.
Also, don't rush through. I would have explored to the right my first time through which would have given me time to figure out enemies were coming. Maybe if I didn't, I would have looked ahead while pushing forward, saw that men were approaching and fired from within the room, not at the side of doorway. Either you're rushing the first time through, or you knew rocket man was there and tried getting the bead on him early and failed.
https://youtu.be/rT7C6cKxcSc?t=261 @4:21
This is me playing on Normal and knowing where the enemy spawns were and I still struggled on this section even though I am generally very good at shooters. I can't imagine how difficult this would be for your average player. Throwing a shit ton of enemies at you who have AI programmed to just run at the player and eat bullets is not the best way to encourage movement.
The Xtortionist
Member
Hardest part of my UC3 crushing run was the last chapter by far. There's enemies fuckin' everywhere, on ledges, in random corners...There was one part like halfway through where I clear like 10 enemies from an area, then run outside and whoops there's a rocket guy on a random ledge. No checkpoint. Fuck everything. Why are the spawns like this.
I know a couple of average players who quit the series in the tank section of Uncharted 2. Both games have a lot of situations like that.
I just did that bit only a few hours ago on Hard, was honestly quite easy. I did it quite different to your play through though, and don't remember enemies surrounding me so aggressively. I essentially stealth killed most of the first few, moved over to the bottom right of the area near the lower deck, then picked them off whilst moving around different cover and throwing back grenades on heavy armored enemies where necessary. Alternately, Grab a shotgun, as two medium to close range headshots will take out the heavy armoured guys. Use pistol headshots for distance kills, and switch to the shotgun if enemies get too close.
I also rarely spray and pray, instead I always just take my time and try and kill enemies in one well timed headshot burst or shot. If that doesn't work, one more burst starting from the lower chest usually does the trick. But you have to wait at least half a second before firing the next burst, otherwise I find the recoil makes things a bit imprecise.
Which is why I put the example near the ship where they blatantly spawn people behind you. You can play around it once you die and realize that happens, the spawn trigger isn't placed well which leads to already being in a bad position before you can really react. I notice the people climbing up the bridge when I'm there, but the rocket guy was already primed without me being able to have counterplay. I approached the encounter differently afterwards, after knowing this.
If you mean this then I dunno. I am clearly adjusting for recoil and aiming down. I've gone by second by second and paused and don't really see poor aiming.
But you know all this because you have played the game before. The stealth and tactics you used were likely memorized. Remember the bookstore in the Last of Us and how much you can improvise with the mechanics and despite always feeling under pressure there is always that chance for escape. Uncharted 3 rarely feels like that and deaths often feel unavoidable through silly things like melee lock-ins/random rockets and numerous other things.
That's the one. Its not just about aiming down, you have to pause a certain amount of time before the reticule fully subsides, otherwise it is actually still ever so slightly higher than it is on rest. I don't know exactly how long you have to wait for recoil to subside, but if I had to guess it's probably half a second to a second. Listening to the shots in the video, I can tell there isn't enough time between each shot for the recoil to settle. You're just shy. Experiment a bit waiting a fraction longer, and I think you'll get far more efficient shots.
Nope. Pretty sure the last time I played it I stayed up high like you did. I can't remember if I found it difficult or not though.
Maybe I just suck then
Based on the video, I don't think you do at all. You mix things up pretty well, and switch between weapons, zoom and running blindfire pretty effectively. You certainly play more frantically than I do, but everyone is going to have a different approach.
Could you upload a video of you playing, would be really interested in your style if you don't seem to run into the same issues I do. Maybe it is my more frantic playstyle but I played like that in Uncharted 2 and didn't have as many problems.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Yeah, I've always felt he had a Sean Penn stinkface thing going on in 2.
I always feel UC2 Nate looks a downgrade from UC1 and then UC3 even then.
I didn't like the updated model in Drake's Fortune tbh, his facial hair looked like it was painted on his face.
RickAstley
Neo Member
It is the opposite for me. Just finished UC2 on crushing and had more trouble in spots than with UC1.
I did play UC1 through on normal before switching to crushing though so that may be why. It definitely helps to know when and where enemies will spawn from going into battles.
UC2 appears to have way more enemies than UC1 as well.
I found UC1 hardest in the first 4-5 chapters (mostly just chapter 4), then gets easier, UC2 is the opposite and gets harder towards the end.
RickAstley
Neo Member
I agree completely. Some of the battles in the monastery and some with the sasquatch things were a real pain at the end of UC2.
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
Agreed, getting an early taste of UC4 in December is going awesome and will hopefully put to bed any concerns about movement / combat.
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
When you advance to the second zone on the ships deck, keep in mind you can run back to the first zone. Standing on the crates between the two areas gives you the ability to shoot a few of the enemies without being exposed to Navarro's fire.
Enemies are dumber and sit still a lot in UC2, UC1 enemies actively move and dodge making it harder to hit them. In addition, UC1 has a ton more waves of enemies and combat arenas than UC2 so you're more likely to die. And, well, UC1 has bullshit enemy spawns as well (they spawn behind you).
Really that's why.
PeterLegend
Member
I enjoyed the melee in UC3, it was contextual and I enjoyed hitting enemies with fish lol.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Everyone talks about the train setpiece of Uncharted 2 being the best part of that game (and it is definitely incredible) but I think my favorite section is right afterwards, fighting the waves of enemies during the blizzard. It's so intense and you're given tons of opportunities to sneak up on your foes as the snowstorm continues to drag on and become more powerful. It's probably my favorite combat encounter in the series .
Use crossbows on them and they die in two hits.
Agreed. The only Crushing giving me some trouble is the first due to a few tricky encounter designs. I beat U2 the other night, and didn't even die on the final boss...
I think it's the more responsive aiming or something- makes things a lot more doable.
Though I still don't like U3 for many reasons, I never noticed the lack of proper hit reactions until this replay (probably because I've played them back to back). It's incredibly irritating.
I get that.
Oh, I absolutely agree that the PSX footage of 4 looks like the best combat scenario they've done. The power weapon thing was just something I enjoyed a lot on this particular playthrough moving through all three games, it gave 3 a unique identity and kept from feeling like more of the same.
4 looks to be expanding the neat sandbox encounters that you could get into in 3 into the standard moment to moment gameplay, which is exactly what I hoped it would do.
CrimsonSquall
Member
Well I already own a PS4 so idgaf honestly, BUT people in my town have done this and it's worked believe it or not
This is the perfect summary of UC3 combat - incredibly well designed, open areas which are completely undermined by enemy placement, AI and a refusal to react to your shots.
Also, does anyone actually think that the armoured shotgun dudes are even fun to fight? You don't need tactics, just a few grenades and keeping your distance. But when you mix them in with enemies wielding power weapons like laser sight pistols and RPGs, it's just a mess.
It's a shame too because UC3 has so much potential and, other than the story, shows an understanding of how to improve upon a lot of the elements of 2 (more open level design and even grander set-pieces being the main takeaways).
Alright so I finished UC3 last night and I said I'd post some additional thoughts about it.
I platinumed UC3 on the PS3 originally so I've already replayed it a bunch but after I've had such a long time since then my opinion/feelings and things I noticed about it have changed a bit.
While I still love places like the ship graveyard, the caravan, the cruise ship (just the set-piece not the combat areas), the chateau, and the airport/airplane sequence... there are some definite warts UC3 has.
That being said, since I like so many parts of the game I find it hard for me to outright hate it. I still had fun with it and still do. Do I hate non-reacting enemies? Absolutely. Do I hate some of the enemy placement and spawns? Hell yes, especially the parts in the cruise ship -- there's literally no way you can avoid death on the cruise ship on any part unless it's on Explorer/Easy difficulty (and even on Easy I wonder if you can -- might just try it at some point). Do I hate how the story has several missed opportunities on what to do with characters and how it ends? Yes.
But despite all of that, I still like the game. I still like so many parts of it. I don't enjoy it enough to say it's better than 2 and it's definitely hard to say it's better than 1 -- honestly, I'd place 1 and 3 on even-ground. Partly because 3 is slightly longer than 1 and has a better "ending boss" than 1 but then 1 has the charm of the island, better story, and better pacing. That's why they're more on even-ground to me.
And I can't wait to go back through it again with something like Young Sully or Doughnut Drake (seriously curious if his voice clips are deeper like UC1/UC2, hope they are!)
But there are some nasty warts at the end of the game,
Fuck that part. Really the worst part of UC3, hands down. That's the combat arena people should be complaining about, not the ship graveyard.
I platinumed UC3 on the PS3 originally so I've already replayed it a bunch but after I've had such a long time since then my opinion/feelings and things I noticed about it have changed a bit.
While I still love places like the ship graveyard, the caravan, the cruise ship (just the set-piece not the combat areas), the chateau, and the airport/airplane sequence... there are some definite warts UC3 has.
That being said, since I like so many parts of the game I find it hard for me to outright hate it. I still had fun with it and still do. Do I hate non-reacting enemies? Absolutely. Do I hate some of the enemy placement and spawns? Hell yes, especially the parts in the cruise ship -- there's literally no way you can avoid death on the cruise ship on any part unless it's on Explorer/Easy difficulty (and even on Easy I wonder if you can -- might just try it at some point). Do I hate how the story has several missed opportunities on what to do with characters and how it ends? Yes.
But despite all of that, I still like the game. I still like so many parts of it. I don't enjoy it enough to say it's better than 2 and it's definitely hard to say it's better than 1 -- honestly, I'd place 1 and 3 on even-ground. Partly because 3 is slightly longer than 1 and has a better "ending boss" than 1 but then 1 has the charm of the island, better story, and better pacing. That's why they're more on even-ground to me.
And I can't wait to go back through it again with something like Young Sully or Doughnut Drake (seriously curious if his voice clips are deeper like UC1/UC2, hope they are!)
But there are some nasty warts at the end of the game,
particularly the sandstorm combat arena and the arena where you fight a ton of Djinn (the final time you fight them by a large fountain area). I don't know what the devs were thinking with the sandstorm arena. Yes, you can stealth kill the first couple of guys but after that you will get caught (or you have to kill someone) and the enemies automatically know where you are despite the sandstorm (clearly not coded to have any vision difference through weather, which is baffling) and they can see you where you are as if it's not there and have 100% accuracy. Meanwhile the player is actually limited by the sandstorm.
This is literally the only area in the series where the player is intentionally disadvantaged. I get it, they were trying to replicate the blizzard combat arena in UC2 but guess what: the dev team had the forethought to at least grant the player some visibility by making the blizzard not that thick such that you couldn't see enemies at all. Here, with the sandstorm, you can't make out enemies at all.
It's especially bad when enemies spawn due to you passing a trigger. It's gross. It's again trying to copy the blizzard combat arena after the train sequence in UC2 but it doesn't work. The player doesn't have ample time to react, get in cover, etc etc. Not to mention, again, visibility is low. The only enemies you can "see" are the ones with laser sights and you can kind of guess where they're standing based on that and kill them but armored guys and standard enemies with no TAUs fuck you over here immensely.
I forgot I even developed a strategy for this area (after destroying the turrets). When you've destroyed the turrets you can just run right on through to the door on the left side of the area and you have enough health, even on Crushing (to my recollection, will try when I do a Crushing run), to get through without dying and without having to kill anyone. But I didn't do that as I forgot and I was playing on Hard. I remembered when I finished the area lol.
You know it's bad design when the player can just run right on through the area without dying and doesn't want to engage the enemies in combat. God. It's just so bad and it contrasts the amazingly well designed caravan section just before it. Ugh.
Brutal on that area is going to be impossible. I can already envision 100 deaths possibly more. That area will literally be ridiculous on Brutal unlike the other parts of games we've talked about. If there is one area on Brutal you will die, a lot, it's the sandstorm.
This is literally the only area in the series where the player is intentionally disadvantaged. I get it, they were trying to replicate the blizzard combat arena in UC2 but guess what: the dev team had the forethought to at least grant the player some visibility by making the blizzard not that thick such that you couldn't see enemies at all. Here, with the sandstorm, you can't make out enemies at all.
It's especially bad when enemies spawn due to you passing a trigger. It's gross. It's again trying to copy the blizzard combat arena after the train sequence in UC2 but it doesn't work. The player doesn't have ample time to react, get in cover, etc etc. Not to mention, again, visibility is low. The only enemies you can "see" are the ones with laser sights and you can kind of guess where they're standing based on that and kill them but armored guys and standard enemies with no TAUs fuck you over here immensely.
I forgot I even developed a strategy for this area (after destroying the turrets). When you've destroyed the turrets you can just run right on through to the door on the left side of the area and you have enough health, even on Crushing (to my recollection, will try when I do a Crushing run), to get through without dying and without having to kill anyone. But I didn't do that as I forgot and I was playing on Hard. I remembered when I finished the area lol.
You know it's bad design when the player can just run right on through the area without dying and doesn't want to engage the enemies in combat. God. It's just so bad and it contrasts the amazingly well designed caravan section just before it. Ugh.
Brutal on that area is going to be impossible. I can already envision 100 deaths possibly more. That area will literally be ridiculous on Brutal unlike the other parts of games we've talked about. If there is one area on Brutal you will die, a lot, it's the sandstorm.
Finished Uncharted 3 and I'm done for now with the collection. As a first time Uncharted player this was an entertaining ride all the way through, although the games are far from perfect imo. They have some lows but also a lot of great highs.
Maybe I give Golden Abyss another chance now. I wasn't a big fan of that when I played that a few years ago.
Maybe I give Golden Abyss another chance now. I wasn't a big fan of that when I played that a few years ago.
Marty-esque
Member
1 and 2 were really fun to platinum but 3 is already becoming annoying. I don't think I really noticed the hit reactions when I played the game on ps3 but I definitely notice it now. There are other game play issues too like enemies charging you but then doing nothing when standing next to you and Nate bouncing off walls like a pinball.
Heh, I jumped into GA as soon as I was done with this trilogy. I too wasn't a big fan when I tried back then.
Nope, bailed out again after 30min. Still can't stomach the stupid whole lot of TOUCHMETOUCHMETOUCHME.
In my opinion Uncharted 3's combat is actually fine. It's good, even.
What isn't good? The level and encounter design.
If Uncharted 3 had level/encounter design as good as Uncharted 2, it would probably be a better game (irrespective of story). As it is, it puts cover in mediocre places, it puts enemies in crap places, and it triggers them in just the right way to be frustrating more often than fun (on Crushing specifically).
I think the addition of throwing, of more counters, of chucking grenades back, is all fine, but the level design worked against the mechanics in most cases.
(Shitty vanilla aiming notwithstanding.)
It is a glorious game.
Yeah baby!
The blizzard shotgun encounter is 100% the best combat encounter in the series. I've probably replayed it 10+ times. It's like some of the later encounters in TLoU's Left Behind DLC which are equally dynamic and open.
Whenever people say Uncharted has bad gameplay I go at them with the post-crash train encounter. It's just masterful. Esp on Crushing where you have to be really skilled to beat it.
The train level is still the greatest train level of all time imo, but even then, other bits of the game far outshine it.
keltickennedy
Member
Currently playing through UC3. I am liking it WAY better than the original release now that the aiming is fixed. Actually liking it better than UC2, which I never thought would happen. I like the improved movement. The guns also sound much more powerful. Combat hasn't been too much of a headache from what i remember on PS3. I find myself shooting and moving way more. Some instances have gotten close to Last of Us, where I could fire at enemies then climb up and jump around to another location and flank. (doesn't happen as much as I would like though). Uncharted 4 seems like you will be able to do that way more.
Really enjoying it, though I remember towards the end it starts to fall apart a little.
Also, damn all these games look incredible. I gotta replay sections to get some good photos.
Really enjoying it, though I remember towards the end it starts to fall apart a little.
Also, damn all these games look incredible. I gotta replay sections to get some good photos.