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Undertale |OT| Indie RPG with determination and spider bake sales

F

Ferrio

Banned
I beat pacifist yesterday from a fresh start. Even then it didn't take long, majority of the game was just reading all the little things which I didn't have to do the second time.

Goatmom <3

Not sure I'll do the sadist run, is it worthwhile?
 
R

Rockman Wright

Banned
And here we are, a new cover of undertale :

Ghost battle

You should also subscribe to his channel, the cover he makes are amazing! This cover makes me happy, because just before that, i got my ass kicked by the final boss of persona 3!

3 times that i died at the same phase, and it's not even the last one! (i don't want to grind, i'm already at a good level but i really don't know what to do, aaargh)
 
D

Dimmle

Member
Ferrio said:
I beat pacifist yesterday from a fresh start. Even then it didn't take long, majority of the game was just reading all the little things which I didn't have to do the second time.

Goatmom <3

Not sure I'll do the sadist run, is it worthwhile?
Click to expand...

It is worthwhile for getting a more complete view of Undertale's broader themes and deeper glimpses into the main cast (sides of their personalities that you wouldn't see as a friendly person) but there are some caveats:

1. SIGNIFICANT PORTIONS OF HOG WILD ("sadist") ARE TEDIOUS: GRINDING IS AN END, NOT A MEANS TO AN END

2. IT IS WRITTEN TO MAKE YOU FEEL BAD AND WRONG

3. LATER ENCOUNTERS ARE EXPONENTIALLY MORE CHALLENGING THAN ANYTHING IN EITHER THE NEUTRAL OR PACIFIST STORIES

I found something to appreciate about all three of those points (certainly in keeping with the motif of "having a bad time") but your mileage may vary. It's certainly not for everyone, even those who enjoyed both Neutral and Pacifist. You're gonna have a bad time.
 
P

PSqueak

Banned
K.Sabot said:
no god please tumblr fancanon is ruining undertale for me

protip don't read the subreddit
Click to expand...

Here is a cool thing about fan's head canon. It doesn't matters cause it is not canon.

Why would it ruin undertale? The canon is what you got in the game, it's immutable, so let people go [hog] wild.

I mean, it's not wrong, it's just their head canon.
 
A

Axelstream

Member
Rockman Wright said:
And here we are, a new cover of undertale :

Ghost battle

You should also subscribe to his channel, the cover he makes are amazing! This cover makes me happy, because just before that, i got my ass kicked by the final boss of persona 3!

3 times that i died at the same phase, and it's not even the last one! (i don't want to grind, i'm already at a good level but i really don't know what to do, aaargh)
Click to expand...

Really cool! Love his sax harmonies.
 
W

Weiss

Banned
Spoilers for basically everything ever ahead.

Regarding Asgore and Toriel's
adopted child, were they actually evil from the get go, or is it something that happened during the Genocide route? I know that they intended to kill the humans in their village, but it's sort of implied that the reason they fell to the Underground in the first place was because they weren't happy there. At the end of the Genocide route the child comes off less like an evil kid and more like an eldritch, malevolent force capable of warping reality and murdering the player.

And to be clear: Frisk is in some way influenced, if not outright possessed, by the child through the whole game and it's only in the Genocide route that they fully take over, right?

Basically I'd just like some theories. They're one of the aspects of Undertale I don't really grasp and I'm too much of a pansy to take the Genocide route.
 
Z

ZimbAdam

Member
God damn. I just beat true pacifist. This game is probably GOTY for me at this point.

The only game in recent memory that actually made me cry. The final fight sequence was just too much.

I don't think I'm going to bother playing a genocide run, I doubt I could stomach killing anyone in this game.
 
S

Saikyo

Member
Weiss said:
At the end of the Genocide route the child comes off less like an evil kid and more like an eldritch, malevolent force capable of warping reality and murdering the player.
Click to expand...

Maybe, it can be also a power of Determination. You can interpret it as chara itself or a metaphor for how you played other games simply grinding for more lvs in rpg for example.

Weiss said:
And to be clear: Frisk is in some way influenced, if not outright possessed, by the child through the whole game and it's only in the Genocide route that they fully take over, right?
Click to expand...

Thats right, Chara only manifest in genocide, when you look in the mirror and say your name than in the end of pacifist: "It still you." I dont know why Asgore doesnt have Chara soul, it vanished? Or maybe feeling guilty he didnt stored it like the other child souls
 
O

Odrion

Banned
A Link to the Snitch said:
Darn, Metascore dropped to 94. I was a bit taken aback by one of the comments from the new review, calling the early part of the game "utterly mediocre", but really, it's not too difficult to understand why someone would think of the beginning as that. The Ruins are easily the least interesting part of the game, and that's a damn shame. I like them a lot, but they don't do a particularly good job of setting the player up to better understand the goings-on. Some of the puzzles feel trivial, it's not too difficult to get caught in a neutral run, and frankly? It's funny, but it's not super funny. To contrast, this is the Ruins:

*guy chuckling*

This is the rest of the game:

*jordan laughing*

(admittedly exaggerating for both images, but I think my point is clear)

Though regardless of my misgivings of the Ruins, they were "good enough" that they don't really affect my opinion of the game. They don't last quite that long, and the rest of the game entirely lacks those shortcomings. It would be unfair to judge it by an intro that is merely "good, perhaps very very good" when I regard EarthBound as my favourite game, even though it has a problematic difficulty spike at a couple points in the game that encourage grinding (or recurrent failure).

But hey, Cave Story isn't without its flaws either -
that you need to ignore Booster in order to find an item that disappears for no reason if you talk to him. You really need to have a walkthrough to know how to get that item.
Both games were made by a single person, and honestly I think Cave Story's problem there outweighs Undertale's by a decent margin!

EDIT: By the way, does anyone have a link to that cute comic of the player-character having an awful time dodging Undyne's attacks?
Click to expand...

The reason why the Metacritic score was so high to begin with was because Undertale was an indie game that went somewhat under the radar, the only people who knew about it being Tobyfox's fans. No one was on any deadline nor were they even obligated to beat and review Undertale. So the only people who had the incentive to play and review it were people who really fucking like Toby's shit and/or really fucking liked Undertale. Toby is a guy who operates on his own wave length, so if you were going into this because you like his work there's a 99% chance you were going to really like this game. It's also a game where if you like it, you realllllly want to tell other people because holy shit.

Now Undertale has gotten big enough through positive word of mouth that everyone else has to take notice. I mean, GOTY awards are in two months, a lot of journalists are going to play this for the deliberations. And this includes people who may not really fucking like it. So the score will probably continue to go down.

If this bums you out, try clicking this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcIpIw4YtZk
 
W

Weiss

Banned
Saikyo said:
Maybe, it can be also a power of Determination. You can interpret it as chara itself or a metaphor for how you played other games simply grinding for more lvs in rpg for example.
Click to expand...

Chara outright refers to themself as the feeling you get when you level up your stats, and throughout the Genocide route Chara/Frisk stops getting determination from random events and just starts being determined to kill everything.

What I don't understand is if the Chara we see at the end is the same Chara that Asriel knew. If that game crashing, Determined monster was always the real Chara.

Thats right, Chara only manifest in genocide, when you look in the mirror and say your name than in the end of pacifist: "It still you." I dont know why Asgore doesnt have Chara soul, it vanished? Or maybe feeling guilty he didnt stored it like the other child souls
Click to expand...

The Red Heart coffin you see in Asgore's castle was Chara's, but Toriel took them to the Ruins and buried them in the flower bed where Frisk lands. Chara was completely gone by the time Asgore enacted his plan.
 
S

SovanJedi

provides useful feedback
I drew a thing to show my appreciation for this game! And mostly because I couldn't sleep.

This game is amazing and I keep telling everyone I know to play it.

sans_and_papyrus_by_sovanjedi-d9d29ee.gif
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
Odrion said:
The reason why the Metacritic score was so high to begin with was because Undertale was an indie game that went somewhat under the radar, the only people who knew about it being Tobyfox's fans. No one was on any deadline nor were they even obligated to beat and review Undertale. So the only people who had the incentive to play and review it were people who really fucking like Toby's shit and/or really fucking liked Undertale. Toby is a guy who operates on his own wave length, so if you were going into this because you like his work there's a 99% chance you were going to really like this game. It's also a game where if you like it, you realllllly want to tell other people because holy shit.

Now Undertale has gotten big enough through positive word of mouth that everyone else has to take notice. I mean, GOTY awards are in two months, a lot of journalists are going to play this for the deliberations. And this includes people who may not really fucking like it. So the score will probably continue to go down.

If this bums you out, try clicking this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcIpIw4YtZk
Click to expand...

Most of my post wasn't about the score tho
 
P

PSqueak

Banned
Weiss said:
Spoilers for basically everything ever ahead.

Regarding Asgore and Toriel's
adopted child, were they actually evil from the get go, or is it something that happened during the Genocide route? I know that they intended to kill the humans in their village, but it's sort of implied that the reason they fell to the Underground in the first place was because they weren't happy there. At the end of the Genocide route the child comes off less like an evil kid and more like an eldritch, malevolent force capable of warping reality and murdering the player.

And to be clear: Frisk is in some way influenced, if not outright possessed, by the child through the whole game and it's only in the Genocide route that they fully take over, right?

Basically I'd just like some theories. They're one of the aspects of Undertale I don't really grasp and I'm too much of a pansy to take the Genocide route.
Click to expand...

My understanding was the following:

Chara hated humanity due to some undisclosed abuse they suffered in their village, likely tried to kill themselves via Mt. Ebott but was found by Asriel instead and hatched the plan to kill all humans, which required fusing their soul with Asriel (theory is their "sickness" was self inflicted), but Asriel was like "no way dude, we're not gonna kill anybody" and returned Chara's body and soul to the underground where Asriel finally died, they both eventually became Flowey due to Asriel determination to keep everyone safe and were unwittingly experimented on by Alphys, as flowey Chara and Asriel could have access to the save states and basically went for each one of the routes several times until they couldn't feel anything and Frisk arrived and somehow took the power from them, Chara sees this as the chance to bypass Asriel's influence and finally destroy the world through Frisk, this is why Flowey's and Asriel's goals were to keep Frisk/the player in the game forever, while Chara's was to just beat the game effectively destroying the world.
 
C

Cowie

Member
SovanJedi said:
I drew a thing to show my appreciation for this game! And mostly because I couldn't sleep.

This game is amazing and I keep telling everyone I know to play it.

[gif]
Click to expand...

This is super awesome. Saw it retweeted earlier, I didn't look at the account closely enough to realize it was by a gaffer. Fantastic stuff.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
PSqueak said:
My understanding was the following:

Chara hated humanity due to some undisclosed abuse they suffered in their village, likely tried to kill themselves via Mt. Ebott but was found by Asriel instead and hatched the plan to kill all humans, which required fusing their soul with Asriel (theory is their "sickness" was self inflicted), but Asriel was like "no way dude, we're not gonna kill anybody" and returned Chara's body and soul to the underground where Asriel finally died, they both eventually became Flowey due to Asriel determination to keep everyone safe and were unwittingly experimented on by Alphys, as flowey Chara and Asriel could have access to the save states and basically went for each one of the routes several times until they couldn't feel anything and Frisk arrived and somehow took the power from them, Chara sees this as the chance to bypass Asriel's influence and finally destroy the world through Frisk, this is why Flowey's and Asriel's goals were to keep Frisk/the player in the game forever, while Chara's was to just beat the game effectively destroying the world.
Click to expand...
I thought that
their sickness being self inflicted was pretty much stated outright and not a theory. I think they ate some plants? Something like that, I don't remember it precisely, either way I think the game was pretty clear in showing that whatever happened to Chara was on purpose, just the reasoning behind it that was unclear
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
motion to never use the word "headcanon" again in contexts that make it sound like an acceptable thing to say
 
P

PSqueak

Banned
Stone Ocean said:
I thought that
their sickness being self inflicted was pretty much stated outright and not a theory. I think they ate some plants? Something like that, I don't remember it precisely, either way I think the game was pretty clear in showing that whatever happened to Chara was on purpose, just the reasoning behind it that was unclear
Click to expand...

HMMM...

I think they never outright state Chara ate the buttercups to poison themselves, but it's assumed since they attempted to kill Asgore with them, i think that's why people pretty much take it as canon

Rez said:
motion to never use the word "headcanon" again in contexts that make it sound like an acceptable thing to say
Click to expand...

Hey, if the word headcanon is acceptable to use by the characters in the game itself, it's acceptable for the fans!
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
robotrock said:
I'm really confused about how this game works. I just met Sans and Papyrus, please help me out so I can enjoy this game without freaking out about my decisions.

Am I supposed to be killing people or sparing them? Because a lot of these enemies are adorable and I'd rather spare them, but I don't really make that much XP that way. Am I going to be severely under leveled for the game then?

I also here a bunch of stuff mentioning "pacifist" or "genocide" and I imagine that means that this game plays out differently if you kill enemies or if you don't? Should I care about that from the start or later? Will the game even introduce me to that stuff?

I think I'm asking fifteen questions here or something.
Click to expand...
You're supposed to play the game like you want to. Don't worry about XP or being underleveled, that's not important.

Yes, stuff plays out differently depending on whether you kill or spare enemies. The game alludes to this but doesn't really spell it out aside from introducing the mechanic to you in the tutorial.


JC Sera said:
How could it ruin undertale for you? I don't get this
Click to expand...
I know Sonic fans who have stopped talking about the games online and subsequently abandoned playing the games because they were so grossed/weirded out by all the furry fanart on deviantart etc. Taint by association, I suppose.
 
dickroach

dickroach

Member
did I uh... fuck up the pacifist ending?
when I got to that final hallway with Sans he congratulated me or whatever for never killing anyone. I spared Asgore, and then... that was it? what am I missing? (first playthrough I did the neutral path)
 
I

InfiniteNine

Rolling Girl
dickroach said:
did I uh... fuck up the pacifist ending?
when I got to that final hallway with Sans he congratulated me or whatever for never killing anyone. I spared Asgore, and then... that was it? what am I missing? (first playthrough I did the neutral path)
Click to expand...

No, that happens normally. After you've spared Flowey and gone through the credits Flowey should tell you what requirements you need to fulfill when you load back up your previous save.
 
dickroach

dickroach

Member
InfiniteNine said:
No that happens normally after you've spared Flowey and gone through the credits Flowey should tell you what requirements you need to fulfill that you can do after loading back up your save.
Click to expand...

I didn't even get to fight Flowey. when I started back up the save I was just back in the Throne room with Asgore. before the credits Flowey just said "well, let's get this over with..."
Neutral run I totally killed Flowey
 
I

InfiniteNine

Rolling Girl
dickroach said:
I didn't even get to fight Flowey. when I started back up the save I was just back in the Throne room with Asgore
Click to expand...

Err... That's not supposed to happen.
Flowey is supposed to kill Asgore at the sparing point and trigger the final sequence.

Edit:
Did you make friends with Papyrus, Undyne, and Alphys? (IE them showing up in your load menu.)
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
dickroach said:
I didn't even get to fight Flowey. when I started back up the save I was just back in the Throne room with Asgore. before the credits Flowey just said "well, let's get this over with..."
Neutral run I totally killed Flowey
Click to expand...
I think you might have found a bug lol
dickroach said:
that happened in my neutral playthrough, yeah. In this pacifist playthrough Asgore gave me his soul
Click to expand...
Then you didn't do a pacifist run, a true pacifist run has certain requirements and the final encounter is completely different
 
dickroach

dickroach

Member
hmm... I thought I just had to not kill anyone. what did I not do? I just replayed thru the entire game for 6 hours to see the "better" ending :\
 
I

InfiniteNine

Rolling Girl
dickroach said:
hmm... I thought I just had to not kill anyone. what did I not do? I just replayed thru the entire game for 6 hours to see the "better" ending :\
Click to expand...

Only possible thing here is you didn't make friends with everyone which is still doable at this point. You being friends with them makes them show up on the load screen when you launch the game, so who is missing?
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
dickroach said:
hmm... I thought I just had to not kill anyone. what did I not do? I just replayed thru the entire game for 6 hours to see the "better" ending :\
Click to expand...
So for a true pacifist run you need (spoilers obviously):
Not a single kill
Go to Papyrus' house in Snowdin and watch the cutscene
Go to Undyne's house in the Waterfall and do her cutscene, she'll give you a letter afterwards and ask you to deliver it to Alphys
Go to Hotland and put the letter under the door, watch the cutscene
Go back to the lab and enter the door next to the crack, complete the dungeon
You'll be sent right back to the capital, just go torwards Asgore as normal and you'll be at the pacifist final boss.
 
dickroach

dickroach

Member
InfiniteNine said:
Only possible thing here is you didn't make friends with everyone which is still doable at this point. You being friends with them makes them show up on the load screen when you launch the game, so who is missing?
Click to expand...

huh. didn't know that was an element. Papyrus, Sans, and Toriel were there.

Stone Ocean said:
So for a true pacifist run you need (spoilers obviously):
Not a single kill
Go to Papyrus' house in Snowdin and watch the cutscene
Go to Undyne's house in the Waterfall and do her cutscene, she'll give you a letter afterwards and ask you to deliver it to Alphys
Go to Hotland and put the letter under the door, watch the cutscene
Go back to the lab and enter the door next to the crack, complete the dungeon
You'll be sent right back to the capital, just go torwards Asgore as normal and you'll be at the pacifist final boss.
Click to expand...

thanks

edit: that was delightful.

more edits:
did it explain why Azriel turned into a flower? I musta missed it...
anyway, I'm wandering around talking to everyone now.
the mice all got some cheese!
Ice Wolf in Snowdin has my favorite post game lines.
kinda pissed that cave to the Southwest of Snowdin (that presumably leads to the Ruins) isn't open. does it have something to do with the genocide run?
what fourth frog??
nice to see Azriel didn't turn back in Flowey and it just chilling watching over the flowers.... and keep talking to her.. and... ooOOOooh. got it.
what happens if you say no, you don't want to go with Toriel?
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
Just finished my first run through the game.

Killed just a few enemies, but I still intentionally wanted to get the neutral ending before attempting pacifist. Holy shit at that fight against Flowey after your save is hijacked. Everything after reaching New Home was incredible and it just kept escalating but that was on another level entirely - many similarities with Earthbound, I loved it.

Starting my pacifist run tomorrow for sure. Can't wait to see what else this game has to offer.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
dickroach said:
more edits:
did it explain why Azriel turned into a flower? I musta missed it...
anyway, I'm wandering around talking to everyone now.
the mice all got some cheese!
Ice Wolf in Snowdin has my favorite post game lines.
kinda pissed that cave to the Southwest of Snowdin (that presumably leads to the Ruins) isn't open. does it have something to do with the genocide run?
what fourth frog??
nice to see Azriel didn't turn back in Flowey and it just chilling watching over the flowers.... and keep talking to her.. and... ooOOOooh. got it.
what happens if you say no, you don't want to go with Toriel?
Click to expand...

Upon death, monsters turn into dust. Monster souls immediately vanish, except for the souls of "boss monsters", to which Toriel, Asgore and their son Asriel count. When Asriel came back from the human world after the first human died, he perished on this field of golden flowers, and his dust spread across them. During her experiments with souls and determination, Alphys decided to take the first golden flower that came from the human world, which seemed to have pieces of Asriel's soul/dust in it, and put determination into it, creating Flowey by accident. Flowey then escaped the lab.

The cave to the Southwest of Snowdin is a secret area with an optional boss fight. In order to get to it, you need to get the pacifist ending, dodge all the special thanks in the credits and I believe you also have to get all the encounters "right" so their names turn yellow in the credits.

There truly is a fourth frog in that room. Try to find it yourself. ;)

Asriel is a boy! :p
 
C

Cody_D165

Banned
i'm pretty late to this train but I bought this game on an impulse this evening after hearing some good things and I think I really enjoyed what I plaOHMYFUCKING GOD I WAS NOT READY FOR THIS SHIT TODAY

I basically went into this game not knowing anything about it so I was playing it like any normal RPG and just minding my own goddamn business enjoying the unique combat system and I should have known there was something larger going on behind the scenes the whole time and yet I still continued fucking killing shit

few hours later I'm being fucking reprimanded and feel like a total asshole and then the game goes full fucking apeshit mode

everything post-Asgore fucked me up hard. the game crashing, the save file bullshit, the flowey battle

so basically I got a neutral ending. I don't even know if I'll be going for alternate endings because I'm honestly incredibly satisfied with the experience I had with the game. I doubt I could bring myself to kill everything and everyone and at the same time I don't think I'll be attempting a full pacifist run either, or at least not for awhile. I'm still picking pieces of my brain off the floor as it is. Might catch those endings on a Youtube run or something.

masterpiece
 
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