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United States Election: Nov 6, 2012 |OT| - Barack Obama Re-elected

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Pctx

Banned
Who said that? The guy you quoted just said "more" of the same policies from Bush. And, judging from his advisors and his plans that's definitely true.
I'm shaking my crystal ball and it comes back saying.... Not sure if serious. Most conservatives didn't mind Bushes policies so why do you think the center-right would care? It's only team Obama members that reject those policies. By contrast, do you support 100% of Obamas policies? The answer is no one supports 100% of anyone's party platform but at least some of Romney's policies get the focus back on the American people.
 

RDreamer

Member
I'm shaking my crystal ball and it comes back saying.... Not sure if serious. Most conservatives didn't mind Bushes policies so why do you think the center-right would care? It's only team Obama members that reject those policies. By contrast, do you support 100% of Obamas policies? The answer is no one supports 100% of anyone's party platform but at least some of Romney's policies get the focus back on the American people.

Uh huh... That's why Bush has been absolutely nowhere to be seen throughout this entire campaign? If him and his policies were actually well liked by America he'd be used a lot more. He isn't. He's still very very unpopular.

Sure we're not talking about 100% of his policies, but quite a bit of them would be very similar to Bush. He's running on the same economic plan, and he has the same foreign policy advisors.
 

Chibits12

Banned
Who the fuck believes this tripe in regards to GWB anything. You people are desperate.

There's nothing desperate here and not cherry-picking. Just facts and here's some of them:

Dan Senor, one of the advisers on foreign policy. Former spokesman for the coalition government in Iraq under GWB. There's more of them I'm sure.

Gregory Mankiw, adviser on economic policy. Served under GWB's as chairman of Council of economic advisers, 2003-2005.

Edward Gillespie, senior political adviser. Former counselor to GWB.

Some change alright.
 

Pctx

Banned
Uh huh... That's why Bush has been absolutely nowhere to be seen throughout this entire campaign? If him and his policies were actually well liked by America he'd be used a lot more. He isn't. He's still very very unpopular.

Sure we're not talking about 100% of his policies, but quite a bit of them would be very similar to Bush. He's running on the same economic plan, and he has the same foreign policy advisors.
With the left. Bush Jr. Looks like a Boy Scout compared to Obama.
 

Samyy

Member
I'm shaking my crystal ball and it comes back saying.... Not sure if serious. Most conservatives didn't mind Bushes policies so why do you think the center-right would care? It's only team Obama members that reject those policies. By contrast, do you support 100% of Obamas policies? The answer is no one supports 100% of anyone's party platform but at least some of Romney's policies get the focus back on the American people.

Which policies are you referring to, just wondering. (Canadian not really followed much of the election).
 

Chibits12

Banned
I'm not sure what you're referring to. Is there a thread you've presented anywhere that explains the comparison you're making?

I guess it has something to do with the "Mission Accomplished" banner on an aircraft carrier with GWB on it vs. Seal Team 6 getting Bin Laden.
 
Here comes another election, where like all the rest, no matter who wins nothing much will change and a bunch of crazy people will say the world is ending/the world is saved.
 

Pctx

Banned
Yes... with just the left. That's why his 2nd term average approval was 37%

And, again, that's why he was nowhere to be seen at the RNC.
I'll make another prediction; if Obama wins a 2nd term, his ratings will be lower than Bush's.
 
Stop responding to Pctx. Let him live in his delusion world until the crushing reality hits him like a brick Tuesday.

I'll make another prediction; if Obama wins a 2nd term, his ratings will be lower than Bush's.

Yes great prediction that anyone cares about considering we won't know for another 4 years and by then everyone will have forgotten.
 

Volimar

Member
Stop responding to Pctx. Let him live in his delusion world until the crushing reality hits him like a brick Tuesday.



Yes great prediction that anyone cares about considering we won't know for another 4 years and by then everyone will have forgotten.

Tells people to stop responding to Pctx.


Responds to Pctx.
 

Pctx

Banned
Stop responding to Pctx. Let him live in his delusion world until the crushing reality hits him like a brick Tuesday.



Yes great prediction that anyone cares about considering we won't know for another 4 years and by then everyone will have forgotten.
Yea, play with me in my candyland.
 

Vyroxis

Banned
Uh huh... That's why Bush has been absolutely nowhere to be seen throughout this entire campaign? If him and his policies were actually well liked by America he'd be used a lot more. He isn't. He's still very very unpopular.

I still say Bush Jr. Was a mediocre president that was delt one Shitty hand after another. Combine that with the lunatics he decided to surround himself with and you have a recipe for disaster. You hand anyone 9/11, the housing bubble finally popping and Katrina in a decade and nobody will look good. If he had had people that were sane advising him and people would view him more favorably.
 

RDreamer

Member
I'll make another prediction; if Obama wins a 2nd term, his ratings will be lower than Bush's.

Doubt it. Unless republicans crash the economy by not getting a decent deal on the table, or I guess unless Europe collapses and brings us with it we're going to be doing pretty decent in 4 years. Most economists think we're on track for about 12 million jobs, maybe more. His ratings will be pretty good when people realize there are no death panels and the job situation is better than the recession we got hit with under policies like Bush.


I still say Bush Jr. Was a mediocre president that was delt one Shitty hand after another. Combine that with the lunatics he decided to surround himself with and you have a recipe for disaster. You hand anyone 9/11, the housing bubble finally popping and Katrina in a decade and nobody will look good. If he had had people that were sane advising him and people would view him more favorably.

But his approval went up after 9/11. The problem was he went to war in a completely unrelated country. And with Katrina he put a shitty guy in charge of FEMA. As we're seeing with Obama and Sandy a hurricane in and of itself doesn't do the damage. How you react to it does. The people you put in place do. Sure if he had sane people advising him he'd be more favorable, but that's like a large part of the job. If he can't surround himself with good people then he's a shitty president.
 

goomba

Banned
The OP photos of the candidates is scary to see in 2012 having the one and same religious symbol behind them.
 

Chibits12

Banned
I look at Mitt Romney and I'm just so confused at where he stands. Is he far-right or more to the center? If he just stops listening to his advisers once and just talk like how he is then maybe we'll get to know him even more. I just don't know what he would fight for as president besides what media, left or right, has told us already.
 

Piecake

Member
I still say Bush Jr. Was a mediocre president that was delt one Shitty hand after another. Combine that with the lunatics he decided to surround himself with and you have a recipe for disaster. You hand anyone 9/11, the housing bubble finally popping and Katrina in a decade and nobody will look good. If he had had people that were sane advising him and people would view him more favorably.

Well, not doing that whole Iraq war thing and giving out massive tax cuts, mostly to the already insanely rich, would have helped.

And yea, you can blame Bush for how Katrina was handled. it was his fault for poorly funding it and putting an incompetent in charge. FEMA seems to be doing fine under Obama.

Not going to blame him for 9/11 or the housing bubble though.
 

RDreamer

Member
I look at Mitt Romney and I'm just so confused at where he stands. Is he far-right or more to the center? If he just stops listening to his advisers once and just talk like how he is then maybe we'll get to know him even more. I just don't know what he would fight for as president besides what media, left or right, has told us already.

The odd thing is that there was an article before about how even his foreign policy advisors had no clue how he'd actually govern.
 

Vyroxis

Banned
Well, not doing that whole Iraq war thing and giving out massive tax cuts, mostly to the already insanely rich, would have helped.

And yea, you can blame Bush for how Katrina was handled. it was his fault for poorly funding it and putting an incompetent in charge. FEMA seems to be doing fine under Obama.

Not going to blame him for 9/11 or the housing bubble though.

I never agreed with Iraq in spirit. We did the right thing in getting rid of saddam as he was a loose cannon, but for all the wrong reasons.

As for Katrina, it was a failure from the city level to the federal. Everyone in the government made bad choices which made the situation worse, from the city employees bailing on everyone to FEMA not being more prepared for the worst case that Katrina was.
 

Oats

Member
Wonder if this will influence the election at all.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/04/iran-suspend-uranium-enrichment

Iran has suspended the enrichment of uranium stockpiles to the 20% purity needed to bring it a short step from building a nuclear device, news services in the region have reported.

Mohammad Hossein Asfari, a member of parliament responsible for foreign policy and national security, was quoted as saying that the move was a "goodwill" gesture, aimed at softening Iran's position before a new round of scheduled talks with the United States after this week's presidential elections.
 

Puddles

Banned
If we could keep elections on the issues solely things could go so much better.

Liberals would sweep. You're talking about a world in which there were no Marxist Kenyan Muslim attacks, no birthers, no false accusations of socialism or communism, no "government takeover of healthcare" or "gas prices doubled under Obama" talking points? A world in both candidates had to run completely on issues of policy and economics?

You'd have Democrats vs. Greens as the two major parties in <10 years.
 

Chibits12

Banned
Sometimes I wonder if the Republican Party will have more moderates again in the future. It seems like they've become an endangered species of some sort. I hope the status quo of the party changes for the good of the country overall.
 

Kusagari

Member
Sometimes I wonder if the Republican Party will have more moderates again in the future. It seems like they've become an endangered species of some sort. I hope the status quo of the party changes for the good of the country overall.

Good luck when they're focused on kicking all the moderates out.

Hell, the Tea Party thinks John fucking Boehner is a moderate RINO.
 

SuperBonk

Member
I look at Mitt Romney and I'm just so confused at where he stands. Is he far-right or more to the center? If he just stops listening to his advisers once and just talk like how he is then maybe we'll get to know him even more. I just don't know what he would fight for as president besides what media, left or right, has told us already.

I don't think anybody knows. Romney seems to have no integrity and aligns himself with whatever's convenient. Mind you, this tactic has its merits, but not when your party is becoming more and more extreme by the day.
 

Piecake

Member
Sometimes I wonder if the Republican Party will have more moderates again in the future. It seems like they've become an endangered species of some sort. I hope the status quo of the party changes for the good of the country overall.

Demographics will force them to become more moderate in the future if they want to remain a national party. Hell, Texas is going to be a swing state in 10-20 years if the republicans dont change their tune
 

Chibits12

Banned
I don't think John Boehner has a voice in his own party anymore since it has been mostly taken over by the Tea Partiers/Birthers in response to President Obama's historic presidency. In other words, his own party has held him hostage and I strongly believe that.

We also all know that Congress will remain divided once Obama wins and when you've got half of the members of the House of Representatives having signed an allegiance to Grover Norquist instead to the US Constitution. I know America can do better than this...

::I never talk much politics or post on Poligaf, it's nice to get things off your chest once in a while lol::
 

elsk

Banned
I just discovered the "47 percent" tape of Romney. I can't even believe he is still on the race after that! What an idiot.
 
Demographics will force them to become more moderate in the future if they want to remain a national party. Hell, Texas is going to be a swing state in 10-20 years if the republicans dont change their tune

They'll moderate on immigration (to court Latinos) and maybe same-sex marriage, but little else.

I really don't expect their economic policy to change at all, since I think the vast majority of Republican voters are there for social issues and just go along with the economic stuff.
 

nib95

Banned
It's weird that even the Republicans on GAF are disingenuous. Pctx, the conservative "independent" Lol.
 

Measley

Junior Member
If/when Romney loses this, the right is going to have to do some serious soul searching. I would be very disappointed if they fall back into their obstructionist nonsense, given the country's dire situation.

As for Obama, he has a good chance of going down as one of the greatest presidents in U.S. history if he keeps up his track record. The Afghan war will end, the U.S. economy will fully rebound, the Health Care law will fully kick in, among other things.

If he can find a way to get a peace treaty in the Middle East, he's going to be on the currency.
 

RDreamer

Member
If/when Romney loses this, the right is going to have to do some serious soul searching. I would be very disappointed if they fall back into their obstructionist nonsense, given the country's dire situation.

As for Obama, he has a good chance of going down as one of the greatest presidents in U.S. history if he keeps up his track record. The Afghan war will end, the U.S. economy will fully rebound, the Health Care law will fully kick in, among other things.

If he can find a way to get a peace treaty in the Middle East, he's going to be on the currency.

He definitely has the potential, depending on a few things, to be the left's Reagan and push the country as a whole toward a bit more of a leftward trajectory, which would be awesome.
 

Cloudy

Banned
If/when Romney loses this, the right is going to have to do some serious soul searching. I would be very disappointed if they fall back into their obstructionist nonsense, given the country's dire situation.

As for Obama, he has a good chance of going down as one of the greatest presidents in U.S. history if he keeps up his track record. The Afghan war will end, the U.S. economy will fully rebound, the Health Care law will fully kick in, among other things.

If he can find a way to get a peace treaty in the Middle East, he's going to be on the currency

LMAO how about he get re-elected first? And even if he wins, the GOP obstruction will continue. He won in a landslide last time yet his legitimacy was questioned from day 1. If he eeks this one out, they will say it was only because of Sandy and he has no mandate..
 
He definitely has the potential, depending on a few things, to be the left's Reagan and push the country as a whole toward a bit more of a leftward trajectory, which would be awesome.
The left's Reagan already came to pass with Clinton. Let's not delude ourselves with fantastical tales about Obama's legacy (I'm voting for Obama).
 
I don't think John Boehner has a voice in his own party anymore since it has been mostly taken over by the Tea Partiers/Birthers in response to President Obama's historic presidency. In other words, his own party has held him hostage and I strongly believe that.

We also all know that Congress will remain divided once Obama wins and when you've got half of the members of the House of Representatives having signed an allegiance to Grover Norquist instead to the US Constitution. I know America can do better than this...

::I never talk much politics or post on Poligaf, it's nice to get things off your chest once in a while lol::

Just read that, absolutely disgusting.
 

RDreamer

Member
LMAO how about he get re-elected first? And even if he wins, the GOP obstruction will continue. He won in a landslide last time yet his legitimacy was questioned from day 1. If he eeks this one out, they will say it was only because of Sandy and he has no mandate..

But even if he doesn't do a whole helluva lot because of obstructionism there are still a few things set up already. According to economists we're likely going to create about 12 million new jobs over the next 4 years by doing nothing. He'll be seen as the guy that got us out of two wars. The republicans won't or even can't really block much with that. And Obamacare will continue, so in the future when people realize the benefits he'll be seen as the guy that did that, too. So he'll have a recovery from a large recession, healthcare, and ending of wars on his record. And that's along with any judicial appointments he might make. On top of him being the first African American president all that added on top of it and yes he could be seen as one of the better presidents in history.

But, yes there are some things that could go wrong. A European collapse that drags the US down with it could be one, and not getting a deal for the sequestration could be another. Still, there's potential there.


The left's Reagan already came to pass with Clinton. Let's not delude ourselves with fantastical tales about Obama's legacy (I'm voting for Obama).

Meh. I'm a bit more of an Obama fan than a Clinton one, really. And, Clinton didn't really seem to lead to an entire shift in ideology of the left's electorate like I think Obama has the potential for and like Reagan did for the right.

And Clinton will always kind of have the scandal image. Obama doesn't have one of those, and hopefully won't (Benghazi doesn't count you loons!)
 

pigeon

Banned
But even if he doesn't do a whole helluva lot because of obstructionism there are still a few things set up already. According to economists we're likely going to create about 12 million new jobs over the next 4 years by doing nothing. He'll be seen as the guy that got us out of two wars. The republicans won't or even can't really block much with that. And Obamacare will continue, so in the future when people realize the benefits he'll be seen as the guy that did that, too. So he'll have a recovery from a large recession, healthcare, and ending of wars on his record. And that's along with any judicial appointments he might make. On top of him being the first African American president all that added on top of it and yes he could be seen as one of the better presidents in history.

But, yes there are some things that could go wrong. A European collapse that drags the US down with it could be one, and not getting a deal for the sequestration could be another. Still, there's potential there.




Meh. I'm a bit more of an Obama fan than a Clinton one, really. And, Clinton didn't really seem to lead to an entire shift in ideology of the left's electorate like I think Obama has the potential for and like Reagan did for the right.


That's because Clinton ran as a Reagan Democrat, so of course he didn't change the dominant Reagan mindset. That's why Obama's embrace of social programs is so important.
 

RDreamer

Member
That's because Clinton ran as a Reagan Democrat, so of course he didn't change the dominant Reagan mindset. That's why Obama's embrace of social programs is so important.

Right, that's kind of what I'm trying to get at. Clinton was a continuation of the change Reagan did. I mean sure he was a democrat and he did some left things, but I still feel like he didn't embody that shift that Reagan did and Obama possibly could.
 

Cloudy

Banned
Oh, I'm not saying he won't get things done if re-elected. Defending healthcare reform and medicare are biggies. As are Supreme Court and other judicial nominees.

Plus, if Romney loses, the GOP will be eager to do immigration reform because they'll have lost the Hispanic vote by 50+ points. Also, not letting Romney take credit for the 12 million jobs already projected by the CBO is imperative..

A 2nd Obama term would not be without accomplishments (in addition to the stuff above, he can do things via executive means). However, no one should expect the GOP to take losing an election they fully expected to win (unlike 2008) quietly...
 

Cyan

Banned
I'm shaking my crystal ball and it comes back saying.... Not sure if serious. Most conservatives didn't mind Bushes policies...

Well sure, it's just that a lot of them have been pretending for the last few years that they were against his policies all along because of the deficit or whatever.
 

Ecotic

Member
The left's Reagan already came to pass with Clinton. Let's not delude ourselves with fantastical tales about Obama's legacy (I'm voting for Obama).
Clinton went along with Reagan's conservative realignment, co-opting both their policies and language. He was a Democrat who survived and survived well in an era that wasn't defined by him. Remember he ran in 1992 as a "New kind of Democrat" after Dukakis got beaten badly after being painted as a Massachusetts liberal.

As for Obama's legacy, I can see two distinct possibilities. The 2008 election can be seen as a realignment where Obama's new inroads into hispanic and young voters opened up the West and allowed victories in Colorado and Nevada, and opened up parts of the South like Virginia and North Carolina. He put a war-weary country back to peacetime, and put us onto the path to prosperity. He can have significant legislative accomplishments especially if he passes immigration reform.

Or he can just be seen as another pragmatist like Clinton. He's never been as ideological as some hoped for in 2008.
 
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