Yeah we said the same thing for the Gore-Bush election and we got 2 wars to prove us wrong.
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United States Election: Nov 6, 2012 |OT| - Barack Obama Re-elected
- Thread starter Amir0x
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Yeah we said the same thing for the Gore-Bush election and we got 2 wars to prove us wrong.
God...frey Jones
Banned
More Fun To Compute
Member
It wasn't an invisible man in the sky, it was the owner of the "cotton mill".
"If you want to keep working here, vote for Romney" was their message. Same message they used to keep labor unions out of the South and West.
Seeing how Guantanamo is still open and the war drones multiplied, I am inclined to agree. When talking about external politics, countries have permanent interests, not temporal friends. That being said, the best thing that Obama has done regarding foreign policy is exactly something that he has not done (entering into another stupid war such as Iran).
I have a feeling if someone ever runs on a platform supporting progressive social change while also supporting certain conservative economic policies, they'd do pretty well.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I swear, one of these could be made for practically every country on Earth, aside from some in the Middle East. ^ Oh and the Libertarian paradise that is Somalia.
How could you say that after the presidencies of W. Bush, Clinton and Obama?
There's ample evidence to show that it actually matters!
Heck even here where pretty much everything is decided at the EU level the president is absolutely important to choose on where to lead the country.
OttomanScribe
Member
What makes you think it would be different?
Obama has pretty much identical foreign policy. He actually managed to do a worse job in the years of his term than Bush's last when it comes to Pakistan/Afghanistan.
American foreign policy is defined by its reality as a polyarchy. Picking between two parts of the one elite.
I'm starting to agree more with a pundit from last night. Americans actually want a smaller government. I believe it was 57% from an exit poll who wanted less government intrusion in their lives. But on fairness and diversity, we want everyone to be equal under the law. So we vote to accept different lifestyles but also vote to kind of limit the president and congress by keeping them tied up.
Obamacare was passed and we just voted to let it kick in over the next 4 years. So we want some government help but not too much.
BobTheFork
Member
We need the gif of Stampy knocking down the other elephants, very appropriate. Can't find it
EnderWiggles
Member
Considering that Clinton had no inclination of ever going anywhere near Iraq I think that part would be hugely different.
Afganistan was a given considering the situation at the time.
For the rest of the policies, it's been proven time and again that there's a difference seeing how the head of the diplomacy is not the same guy with the same ideas before and after a change of presidency.
The general direction is the same but the difference can be notable.
We certainly went at war for less than that, heck just looking at the more than 1000 years of European history it's pretty clear that even one guy dying at the wrong time can change plenty of things.
Heck even from a purely economical POV, you can take the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and see who got to be behind it and see the effects on the economy, that wasn't the sense of history or some BS like that.
It was people behind seeing their best interests.
glorious
sleeping_dragon
Banned
so China is having their presidential election tomorrow. Cant wait for fox news melt down! lol
Eaten By A Grue
Member
ElectricBlue187
Member
more like a communist party gathering..
god bless murrica.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Just because he supports measures that are unpopular with your country doesn't mean he has the same foreign policy. Just about every other domestic policy (shit that Americans actually give a fuck about) is different
This electoral college system is accepted quietly for american people? To me it seems absurd a system that allows the winner in popular vote becomes a loser in the election.
Outside that, it ceases to be a national election and becomes an election in a few states, voters in other states are irrelevant.
Anyway, I can't understand how a great democracy like the U.S. use an electoral system like this.
Outside that, it ceases to be a national election and becomes an election in a few states, voters in other states are irrelevant.
Anyway, I can't understand how a great democracy like the U.S. use an electoral system like this.
Heck just look at how differently Obama acted with the Korean problem.
Bush basically shat on the whole process at the time.
It's a no contest really, just him not being Bush was enough for him to not shit everything up worse than it already was
The way I understand it, it practically never happens (something like 2 times in the last 100 years or so I heard) so it's not like it's a bad system.
Also the way the election is polled in all countries it doesn't change the dynamic much.
I mean there's still places and people the candidates don't give a shit about.
This year also it appear that the college and popular vote will be the same.
And WTF have that got to do with foreign policies of the USA?
OttomanScribe
Member
Oh, so he has a radically different opinion on the power of lobbyists, the nature of the bipartisan system silencing independent voices and is down for rolling back the erosion of liberties that came with 9/11 along with making American politics about substance rather than veneer?
Oh.
What do you mean 'unpopular with my country'? My country, most of it anyway, couldn't care less about a bunch of dead brown people. Neither apparently does yours.
Dude Abides
Banned
This post is a great example of a lack of sophistication posing as its opposite.
OttomanScribe
Member
Nope, Pakistan and Afghanistan got remarkably worse. He has completely mangled relations with both countries, and radically undermined the stability of the second. His policy in both is not defined by diplomatic or strategic geopolitical goals, it is defined by what his generals think will work to kill the terrurists.
Check the post I am replying to, he says 'well the domestic policy is different'.
Gee, I wonder why they lost.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Patrick Murphy beat Allen West. You guys don't know how happy I am about this.
ElectricBlue187
Member
I mean the country you advocate for in every thread. You knew that already. And yes you can cherry pick things that are the same with both parties but it is a tired exercise at this point in the election cycle. The two parties are probably as different today as they have ever been in the past and its enough for Americans to be invested in the choices they make.
And why do you think I was talking about anything other than North Korean and South Korea in my post here?
And it is, unless you missed the whole 'don't ask, don't tell' and the various other issues.
Do you think Bush would have done anything like Obamacare or something?
Haunted
Member
Sweet vindication. Stuck to Nate Silver and fucking math instead of the media narrative when discussing the election with my family and friends.
Not like it was a deep discussion or anything, as most of them weren't really engaged in the US election stuff and only held a passing interest, they basically had their only source being what the local media told them - and they completely mirrored the larger media narrative of CNN and Fox News - it's gonna be close! razor sharp margins! complete toss up! anyone's guess!. (Whether our German media got their sources from AP or dpa or filtered through the American channels first, I honestly don't know).
It's not like they straight up did not believe me, but it's really hard to argue against the consensus when various sources all agree and all you hear is that it's a 50-50 race literally everywhere in traditional media - newspaper, radio, TV stations.
That 538 (and a handful of other sites) literally called 50 of 50 states correctly against what the common consensus among political pundits seemed to be, is tremendous.
Not like it was a deep discussion or anything, as most of them weren't really engaged in the US election stuff and only held a passing interest, they basically had their only source being what the local media told them - and they completely mirrored the larger media narrative of CNN and Fox News - it's gonna be close! razor sharp margins! complete toss up! anyone's guess!. (Whether our German media got their sources from AP or dpa or filtered through the American channels first, I honestly don't know).
It's not like they straight up did not believe me, but it's really hard to argue against the consensus when various sources all agree and all you hear is that it's a 50-50 race literally everywhere in traditional media - newspaper, radio, TV stations.
That 538 (and a handful of other sites) literally called 50 of 50 states correctly against what the common consensus among political pundits seemed to be, is tremendous.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
It was close, by 2,500 votes, but Patrick Murphy ended Allen West's reign of terror. Thank God it's over.
Originally, it was created to protect the smaller states, give them a larger voice in the new US government.
I believe it would require a constitutional amendment to get rid of it. That is a long process. It only happens once every four years, memories are short, and there hasn't been a really compelling reason to attempt to change it.
Like this election, Obama will probably win the popular vote, so him winning the electoral votes has not hurt anything.
And it does speed things up so you get a result in time to get some sleep before going to work.
Kageshinzo
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZZt3jPDvNQ
Don't know if that has been posted before in this thread but Americans, why is someone like Bill O'Reilly still on air?
Don't know if that has been posted before in this thread but Americans, why is someone like Bill O'Reilly still on air?
RomanticHeroX
Member
I fully admit that by this point I'm just being a sore winner, but it's really gratifying watching the margin in the popular vote grow.
It's called politic, you paint your enemy as the devil and vilify him for it.
Same things happened on the other side.
Although it's nice to see Ayn Rand nutters get kicked in the ass.
TV talked it up as a tight race for ratings. Not really surprising. Another example of news for ratings instead of news for informing, though
OttomanScribe
Member
Not going to lie, I'm not familiar enough with the region to comment. I may be wrong, and they may indeed be substantial differences in that respect.
If that is the case, I apologise, I'll look into it and get back to you. I'm just talking about the regions I am familiar with, central asia, the middle east and Africa.
Again, those seem like relatively minor issues in the broader context of endemic corruption. Though I'll grant that they are a nice distraction.
This guy leads the ratings in cable news prime time.
Haunted
Member
It's something I expect from ratings-driven news outlets, but hearing our public news channels (supported by tax money, not dependent on ratings, with a public mandate to inform impartially above all else) ARD and ZDF repeat these, when the numbers were freely available was... baffling.TV talked it up as a tight race for ratings. Not really surprising. Another example of news for ratings instead of news for informing, though
Like they didn't bother to research and just fell in line. Pack journalism.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
http://elections.msnbc.msn.com/ns/politics/2012/florida/house/18/
Every vote counts. Thank you, St. Lucie County.
Every vote counts. Thank you, St. Lucie County.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
We got Allen West. That's the cherry on top of the delicious cake.
It's deeply engrained in the constitution so we can't just change it overnight. Also, not all votes for the popular vote are counted, many states stop counting them once one candidate has a clear majority.
In theory, all states could make it a virtual popular vote always = presidency by just making their electoral votes proportional. But the parties in 48 of the 50 states set it up so the states are winner-take-all. Nebraska and Maine are set up to split their votes. Obama got an entire 1 electoral vote off Nebraska last time and that was enough for the GOP to try and get rid of Nebraska's proportional electoral college vote allocation.
teruterubozu
Member
Man, Karl Rove was so deliciously pathetic last night.
It also suited both camps to talk up a tight race to help with turnout.
Once you have the same narrative coming from all sources it's hard to buck that trend.
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