Ganzlinger
Member
I want Bronn to live but that scene.. more cringe to the Sand Snakes...
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Anton Sugar
Member
That's a relief would have hated to have Bronn die on such a weak fight. Though I still worry that he will share the same fate of Arys Oakheart.
what the fuck
It kinda clicked for me when JonCon starting waxing lyrical about Blackheart Toyne's wonderful warmth and smile.
Even Satin?
Red Arremer
Member
More like, the gay characters in the books aren't obviously openly flamboyantly pinkrainbowcolored gays flipping their arms and nasally talking about how gay they are.
They're actual people, just like gay people are.
And that's why I like the gay characters in the books so much. They're portrayed as just regular people. They just also like cock.
Dude, Satin turns into a big badass during the course of his appearances. Totally love his transformation.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I caught Connington, but totally missed Renly and Loras on my initial read, didn't find out until I hit the internet right after.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Tyene whyy?
This is worse than Obi Wan vs Anakin dance festival.
Steelyuhas
Member
Is that a 10-year old on the right???
SpaceHorror
Member
It's cringey as hell, but I'll take it if it means Bronn survives.
...for a bit longer anyway.
Yes, you are wrong. Mostly because you're pointing fingers towards someone and telling him how he feels after having read two or three of their posts.
If you'd bothered looking up through my post history before trying to summarize me you'd find out that I've been enjoying the show a lot over the past years. Hell, I've even enjoyed most of this season, even complimenting it with regards to some of the changes (to Dany's storyline, for example).
I don't trust D&D because most of the stuff they've come up with over the past five seasons has been shit. The fooking legend's arc was shit, for example, and so is Jaime's Wonderful Dorne Adventure. Why would I trust them right now when they've just created the worst episode in the show's entire run?
Still, when they do something right, I do enjoy it. Like I did with Arya's and Tywin's scenes back then. These trust issues you seem to claim I have did not in any way get in the way of the fun I had with those scenes.
It seems pretty obvious that you're bent on defending this show, but you don't need to lash out at everyone who has something negative to say about it as if they're all mindless haters.
No, that's not my point at all. I wasn't even arguing that the scene is ok, I'm just not condemning it before I see the fallout from it.
A major production like this having such terrible fight scenes is a failure of the highest order
I have some thoughts on the whole Winterfell scenario now that I've had time to let it stew over night and this morning.
First of all, the whole plot is MUCH closer to the book plot than I imagined when I first heard about Sansa going to Winterfell. In hindsight it's obvious, and D&D even stated as much in previous interviews. On a micro level, some of the details have obviously been altered with the swap in character from Jeyne to Sansa, but on a macro level it really is the Winterfell plot from the book. D&D really didn't invent this plotline, they've ripped it right from the book and transplanted Sansa into the middle of it.
Putting Sansa in the situation changes the dynamics of things so much in so many interesting ways though, that I've really been enjoying it. Simply putting a Stark in Winterfell again is powerful on its own, but seeing first hand the support she and the Stark name still have, and Sansa's realization of that, is equally powerful.
Then there's the interaction with Theon, which I'm loving so far. And presuming that the plot going forward will be following the book plot, now she'll begin to feel sympathy for Theon as someone else who has suffered abuse from Ramsay. I think putting Sansa in a situation where she gains the capacity to sympathize with Theon is incredibly interesting, and further mirrors the audiences feelings for the character. Alfie Allen has been so good that I'm looking forward to seeing this progress.
On the surface I understand complaints that this is just repeating Sansa's storyline from King's Landing. But what they are able to do now is use the juxtaposition of a similar situation to illustrate the change in character that Sansa has gone through since then. In King's Landing, she was completely helpless and at the mercy of others. Even her escape was manipulated and orchestrated completely without her involvement. She was an emotional husk unable to do anything but endure. Now in Winterfell, she's first of all entered into the wedding arrangement situation willingly. She knew it was a dangerous situation, and she made the choice to go through with it. Even up until the wedding, she was pushing forward, begrudgingly and knowingly agreeing to take Ramsay as her husband. It's a meaningful, calculated difference from a character perspective than her time in King's Landing. The way she shut down Myranda earlier in the episode is another example of the strength she has as a character now compared to earlier in the series.
Then the wedding night happens, and she tragically comes to learn that she's in a far more dangerous situation than either her or Littlefinger imagined. It does make her a victim again, but unlike when she was a helpless victim in King's Landing, she actually has the capacity and the ability to do something about her situation herself. This whole scenario will incite Sansa to action and reach out to those who support her, thereby conspiring the beginnings of the northern uprising herself in order to manufacture the escape of her and Theon and the destruction of the Boltons. We know there are northern houses still loyal to the Starks, we know there are small folk in Winterfell and nearby, we know Brienne is willing and able to help. I can imagine a scenario where the Northern houses rally and join Stannis in battle even, and obviously Brienne will aid in her and Theon's escape as the candle in the tower window setup is a Chekhov's gun of a plot device at the moment.
I'm enjoying the Winterfell storyline this season. I think all the character interplay has been very well done. I'm exceedingly curious to see what happens once Sansa and Theon get out, presumably with Brienne. Are they gonna course correct her back to her book storyline, or forge ahead with even more new and different material?
And of course the whole Brienne vs. Stannis thing too. There are any number of ways that can go down, from Brienne begrudgingly being forced to ally with him in order to take down the Boltons, to her going rogue and trying to kill him as she's been promising since Renly's death, or something I can't even think of.
Thinking on the whole thing has also made me think they could almost close the season on the massive cliffhanger of the Battle for Winterfell about to commence. People are going to hate Ramsay and the Boltons more now than ever, and Stannis knocking at the door is going to be one of the most anticipated conflicts. I don't think it's that crazy of a closing sequence, and the battle itself opening season 6.
EDIT: Also, I can't defend that Sand Snakes fight. The whole scenario was kind of silly, with Jaime/Bronn and the Snakes arriving at the same time. The storyline clearly seems hurt by the limited screentime they can allot to it. I like Bronn and his reaction to the situation, I like Jaime's character reasoning for trying to get Myrcella. I even kind of like Obara, as she's the only one of the three who has shown any kind of personality or purpose at this point (which is probably intentional since she takes most after Oberyn in so many obvious ways). But the other two just aren't even characters at this point. I'll continue to look forward to any time Bronn is on screen, and I'm looking forward to Doran and Jaime interacting. Maybe the storyline will get some kind of substance or something now.
First of all, the whole plot is MUCH closer to the book plot than I imagined when I first heard about Sansa going to Winterfell. In hindsight it's obvious, and D&D even stated as much in previous interviews. On a micro level, some of the details have obviously been altered with the swap in character from Jeyne to Sansa, but on a macro level it really is the Winterfell plot from the book. D&D really didn't invent this plotline, they've ripped it right from the book and transplanted Sansa into the middle of it.
Putting Sansa in the situation changes the dynamics of things so much in so many interesting ways though, that I've really been enjoying it. Simply putting a Stark in Winterfell again is powerful on its own, but seeing first hand the support she and the Stark name still have, and Sansa's realization of that, is equally powerful.
Then there's the interaction with Theon, which I'm loving so far. And presuming that the plot going forward will be following the book plot, now she'll begin to feel sympathy for Theon as someone else who has suffered abuse from Ramsay. I think putting Sansa in a situation where she gains the capacity to sympathize with Theon is incredibly interesting, and further mirrors the audiences feelings for the character. Alfie Allen has been so good that I'm looking forward to seeing this progress.
On the surface I understand complaints that this is just repeating Sansa's storyline from King's Landing. But what they are able to do now is use the juxtaposition of a similar situation to illustrate the change in character that Sansa has gone through since then. In King's Landing, she was completely helpless and at the mercy of others. Even her escape was manipulated and orchestrated completely without her involvement. She was an emotional husk unable to do anything but endure. Now in Winterfell, she's first of all entered into the wedding arrangement situation willingly. She knew it was a dangerous situation, and she made the choice to go through with it. Even up until the wedding, she was pushing forward, begrudgingly and knowingly agreeing to take Ramsay as her husband. It's a meaningful, calculated difference from a character perspective than her time in King's Landing. The way she shut down Myranda earlier in the episode is another example of the strength she has as a character now compared to earlier in the series.
Then the wedding night happens, and she tragically comes to learn that she's in a far more dangerous situation than either her or Littlefinger imagined. It does make her a victim again, but unlike when she was a helpless victim in King's Landing, she actually has the capacity and the ability to do something about her situation herself. This whole scenario will incite Sansa to action and reach out to those who support her, thereby conspiring the beginnings of the northern uprising herself in order to manufacture the escape of her and Theon and the destruction of the Boltons. We know there are northern houses still loyal to the Starks, we know there are small folk in Winterfell and nearby, we know Brienne is willing and able to help. I can imagine a scenario where the Northern houses rally and join Stannis in battle even, and obviously Brienne will aid in her and Theon's escape as the candle in the tower window setup is a Chekhov's gun of a plot device at the moment.
I'm enjoying the Winterfell storyline this season. I think all the character interplay has been very well done. I'm exceedingly curious to see what happens once Sansa and Theon get out, presumably with Brienne. Are they gonna course correct her back to her book storyline, or forge ahead with even more new and different material?
And of course the whole Brienne vs. Stannis thing too. There are any number of ways that can go down, from Brienne begrudgingly being forced to ally with him in order to take down the Boltons, to her going rogue and trying to kill him as she's been promising since Renly's death, or something I can't even think of.
Thinking on the whole thing has also made me think they could almost close the season on the massive cliffhanger of the Battle for Winterfell about to commence. People are going to hate Ramsay and the Boltons more now than ever, and Stannis knocking at the door is going to be one of the most anticipated conflicts. I don't think it's that crazy of a closing sequence, and the battle itself opening season 6.
EDIT: Also, I can't defend that Sand Snakes fight. The whole scenario was kind of silly, with Jaime/Bronn and the Snakes arriving at the same time. The storyline clearly seems hurt by the limited screentime they can allot to it. I like Bronn and his reaction to the situation, I like Jaime's character reasoning for trying to get Myrcella. I even kind of like Obara, as she's the only one of the three who has shown any kind of personality or purpose at this point (which is probably intentional since she takes most after Oberyn in so many obvious ways). But the other two just aren't even characters at this point. I'll continue to look forward to any time Bronn is on screen, and I'm looking forward to Doran and Jaime interacting. Maybe the storyline will get some kind of substance or something now.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
What is she waiting for? If the whole thing is predicated on Stannis winning, that is beyond idiotic. Chances are Stannis would decimate the Boltons without her help at all.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Well at the very least, laying siege to a castle is a lot easier when you have an ally inside. I'm just not sure how any sort of Sansa/Stannis communication or collusion could actually play out, though.
bengraven
Member
Very good point. Satin was kind of shafted.
I think because Jon acts like Tolkien characters in his affection for Rhaegar. I didn't want to automatically assume it was because he was gay because that would have basically outed the entire Fellowship.
Olly basically is Satin's role. I'm kind of pissed because the kid is boring...just a voice of vengeance like a little devil on Jon's shoulder. He already avenged his parents' death, his story should be over. Satin could have came in this season or he could have been the character all along.
You would think in a world that's so down on "buggery" there wouldn't be more gay men at least hinted at on the wall. Father no bastards?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Man remember that constantly butthurt guy whose gf works on the show, and would always make fun of people who criticized the show? I wish he was here now to tell us why this shit is better than Spartacus' choreography.
Mods pls unban him for a week.
Most of the Sansa talk is predicated on what Littlefinger's gameplan is and how much Sansa understands it which we (me at least) still have no idea what that is
bengraven
Member
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Oh God, that guy.
I agree. This is the world of the
Bedding Ceremony, where friends and family pull off your clothes on the way to the room. On your wedding night, sex is happening whether you want it or not.
Olenna was glorious in that scene. "Famous tart Cersei." "Veiled?"
BobTheFork
Member
I caught that and enjoyed it. I feel like Cersei is imitating thing she saw Tywin do without any of the guile or intelligence to back it up. Can't wait for the walk of shame.
I'm sorry, you're right. I shouldn't have picked your post to make that argument. There's a lot of things worth criticizing the show over, but in this thread people have devolved into calling the people that make it "monkeys" and the cynicism has just gotten too much for me. I'll take a break from this thread and once again, sorry for misrepresenting your opinion in order to make my argument.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Yes I believe there is a word for that
TheNamesPlissken
Neo Member
I just really hope the season's North plot line ends with (WOW informed speculation):
Stannis drawing in the boltons (or magically the freys would join the boltons in the next episode to help counter Stannis to better stick to the books) onto the ice lake, pinned back and seemingly defeated...before he breaks the ice and the rival army all drowns. The remaining Stannis army then turn their sights to Winterfell going into next season.
We know (or seemingly know) the battle of Winterfell isn't happening this season and there needs to be some dramatic resolution to Stannis's storyline, and would be a major positive for a season that will have a lot of negatives... including the et tu brute moment at the wall and potential attempted sacrifice of lady shireen.
Then again, not sure how Brienne would be tied into this. I think she will absolutely be forced to choose to avenge Renly or save Sansa/Pod somehow.
I totally did not see the ice lake trick happening in my first read but am convinced it's happening or already happened.
We know (or seemingly know) the battle of Winterfell isn't happening this season and there needs to be some dramatic resolution to Stannis's storyline, and would be a major positive for a season that will have a lot of negatives... including the et tu brute moment at the wall and potential attempted sacrifice of lady shireen.
Then again, not sure how Brienne would be tied into this. I think she will absolutely be forced to choose to avenge Renly or save Sansa/Pod somehow.
I totally did not see the ice lake trick happening in my first read but am convinced it's happening or already happened.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
The blow black from Cersei's actions can't come soon enough
bengraven
Member
I love how Olenna actually survived that.
Been waiting for her downfall forever.
Then bring on Cleganebowl.
This mirrors my thoughts on Winterfell this season. As awful as the Sansa-Ramsay seen was I honestly expected much worse. I figured they would mirror the books completely but I'm glad they didn't. Now if Sansa doesn't somehow get her revenge against the Boltons and Littlefinger I will be very dissapointed. It will just be another notch in the Stark snuff film.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
If she realises that her own machinations contributed to her downfall/humiliation. And if the show wants Lena Headey to portray that moment of realisation to her characters face. I would really savour that scene.
Eh, it's kind of the opposite. Even the HBO pres said he'd like more but won't force D&D to change their plans.
biosnake20
Member
I think everything except for Dorne was really good. Dorne is legitimately awful and I don't understand how stuff like this even made it to the final scripts. That fight had like 100 quick cuts in it it almost gave me a seizure. Looks like Sansa
is finally going into action now according to the promo.
Maybe I'm missing something, but HOW can Roose see Sansa willingly marrying Ramsay as anything but a ruse to achieve some future payback?
I mean I understand Roose wanting a Stark/Bolton baby and the "right" to the north that Sansa brings, but why would they not assume she is there as an enemy regardless of how she bears herself? I mean, all they did is betray her family, kill her Mother and Brother and now want to use her to take the position of her father...
I mean I understand Roose wanting a Stark/Bolton baby and the "right" to the north that Sansa brings, but why would they not assume she is there as an enemy regardless of how she bears herself? I mean, all they did is betray her family, kill her Mother and Brother and now want to use her to take the position of her father...
Spikematic
Member
I'm sorry, but I just needed a place to vent. WTF is up with this entire Dorne plotline? It is utterly atrocious in every possible way. That 'fight' scene is one of the worst I've ever seen on TV, I've seen more badass looking girls than the sand snakes at cosplay conventions and the part where Ellaria sand looks all 'shocked' when the guards come to arrest her was so unintentionally hilarious... I seriously hope the show's writers know wtf they're doing with this. The Dorne part wasn't exactly very compelling to me in the books, but it was leagues better than this fanfic level drivel we're being fed.
Also, if Bronn dies from that little knick, I'm going to throw a hissy fit. I haven't gotten over how they disposed of Selmy... =/
Also, if Bronn dies from that little knick, I'm going to throw a hissy fit. I haven't gotten over how they disposed of Selmy... =/
bodyofanamerican
Member
I'm steeling myself for the fact that he's quite aware of a possible ruse (Roose? LOL), and has those two plants (dude with the Frey hat and Gramsay Bolton) ready to sell Sansa out if she tries to pull a fast one.
But then again if she dies/is flayed, by show Roose's logic, he'd lose the North, right?
CopperPuppy
Member
The LARPing scenes in Role Models have more convincing fight choreography than this.
I honestly don't even know what to say.
What was The One True Queen's line, "put the quill down you're not writing anything"? Lol. Tyrells been dunking on Cersei nonstop this season.
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
Well she's just a girl who has nowhere to go really. Her entire family is believed to be dead and there are numerous factions out there who'd like to see her head on a pike. She's not going to go on a murderous rampage on her own. That'd be silly.
He actually works on the show now too. So yes, I'm sure he would have been in here defending every single bit of criticism levied at the series.
Agreed, interested to see where this goes, but hopefully makes some sense when all done.
True enough but "run to the arms of those who betrayed her family so she can be used by them" seems pretty silly too.
I don't :/
Now I'm curious.
Oh, Olenna, another great transition from book to show. And the scene between Jorah and Tyrion when he tells his father is dead was great. Does Jorah know in the books?
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