bengraven
Member
Yeah, you're much smarter than us. Thanks for posting here.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Yeah, you're much smarter than us. Thanks for posting here.
hendersonhank
Member
She was only in the position she was in because she chose to be. She chose to marry someone and marriages are consummated on the wedding night. She went to the bedchamber to consummate the wedding. She took off her clothes to consummate the wedding.
Being unpleasant doesn't make it rape.
hendersonhank
Member
I thought it was the best episode of the season other than the terrible Sand Snakes (also terrible in the book) and their terrible fight.
Yeah I don't understand why people are screaming the show ruined the sand snakes. In the book they felt like dumb people with a short temper and ready to make super poor short sighted decisions, so for now it's rather accurate to me.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Just giving my opinion on the show vs the books. No need to get defensive... I certainly didn't and don't judge anybody who is enjoying the show. I thought that I was allowed to share my personal thoughts on the show, but if this isn't the place for that then I'm sorry for interfering and I won't bother you again.
bengraven
Member
In regards to those who want to nitpick what it is, I will say this: it's very hard to have a discussion about whether something is rape or abuse. It's such a strong, powerful thing and many of us have never experienced it and those who have live with a terrible burden I can't even begin to imagine.
We live in a sick world or better yet, I do, because I know quite a few people including very close family and friends who were both abused, raped, and both. Most if not all but one of the women I dated were either or. My mom, my sister, my best friends, my own wife. None of them except my wife watch the show, so in my experience I can't tell anyone either way. So whether it's politically correct or not, I don't think I'll ever be able to define it. I don't think anyone can, because if you experienced it I don't think you care about differences - it's all horrible in the end. So what if there's a difference between rape or abuse, this woman's emotions were destroyed at that moment, what little innocence she had left stolen from her. The last parts of Sansa of Season 1 that existed only as a whisper in Sophie Turner's eyes were murdered on Sunday night.
I think now we should just talk about what this means moving forward and stop trying to define it, especially in this thread.
Not being defensive, just some light hearted ribbing. I'm easy. Go for it - even fans of the show who haven't stopped watching bitch about it. You can be like our Kuwabara Man in the Who threads.
We live in a sick world or better yet, I do, because I know quite a few people including very close family and friends who were both abused, raped, and both. Most if not all but one of the women I dated were either or. My mom, my sister, my best friends, my own wife. None of them except my wife watch the show, so in my experience I can't tell anyone either way. So whether it's politically correct or not, I don't think I'll ever be able to define it. I don't think anyone can, because if you experienced it I don't think you care about differences - it's all horrible in the end. So what if there's a difference between rape or abuse, this woman's emotions were destroyed at that moment, what little innocence she had left stolen from her. The last parts of Sansa of Season 1 that existed only as a whisper in Sophie Turner's eyes were murdered on Sunday night.
I think now we should just talk about what this means moving forward and stop trying to define it, especially in this thread.
Not being defensive, just some light hearted ribbing. I'm easy. Go for it - even fans of the show who haven't stopped watching bitch about it. You can be like our Kuwabara Man in the Who threads.
Jawmuncher
Member
How did sansa's arc go in the book? I don't even remember her meeting ramsay in the books.
It's been awhile though so I might be mixing things up.
It's been awhile though so I might be mixing things up.
She's still in the Vale learning about politics and being courted. This was never going to make it into the show.
Moff
Member
she didn't. they basically replaced jeyne poole (fake arya) with sansa.
I understand non readers to be shocked by this, but it's a bit weird to see this coming from book readers. we discussed this weeks or months ago and we expected worse, we expected that it was done like in the books...
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Dorne is such a shit show here. I liked the region in the books, nice change of pace and culture that the show is stumbling on.
bengraven
Member
She's still in the Vale with Petyr and Lil Rob and has been betrothed to Harry the Heir.
sample chapter spoiler -
she just met him and he's an asshole, but because he thought she was an idiot. They're warming up to each other. He doesnt seem to be the type to make Sweet Robin watch.
Jawmuncher
Member
Ok just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something when I read them. I know the show has been doing some changes didn't expect something big like that. I consider the show it's own thing so it can do what it wants, just wanted to make sure my facts weren't muddled. Thanks all.
Gawd. The show moves quick enough that you can't dwell on it, but this. Wow. Somebody got paid for that. Honestly, we could put on wigs and do a better job.
My problem with this season - Not enough Doran Martell. At all. I don't even get the point of doing Dorne if Doran isn't going to soak up major screentime. I didn't like the Iron Island bits much at all, but at least it had already been established between Theon, Asha, and Balon.
This is just awkward. Dr. Bashir is contracted for the next two seasons, at least? Maybe they'll do better next year.
* Bronn better not die from that bullshit.
** Srsly don't kill fucking Bronn. The show *needs* all the charismatic actors/characters it can get these days.
He could see the rape all the way from his balcony in Dorne?
I understand the "outrage" now!
I think this is a really well written take on why the scene is problematic for some, but I also don't think this level of critical thought and this angle of criticism is being taken by everyone in the debate. This is such a tough subject that so much of the discussion becomes loud, declarative statements from both sides.
I find it interesting that the author in this piece saw the focus staying on Theon's face as problematic and taking agency away from Sansa in the scene. I can perfectly understand the logic behind that reading, but I felt that was the scene showing restraint and trying to be respectful to the actors involved, while also utilizing what can be a powerful filmmaking technique (in fact, that may be contributing to the impact the scene is having, as showing reactions instead of the act itself forces the audience to imagine themselves what is happening off screen).
I find it interesting that the author in this piece saw the focus staying on Theon's face as problematic and taking agency away from Sansa in the scene. I can perfectly understand the logic behind that reading, but I felt that was the scene showing restraint and trying to be respectful to the actors involved, while also utilizing what can be a powerful filmmaking technique (in fact, that may be contributing to the impact the scene is having, as showing reactions instead of the act itself forces the audience to imagine themselves what is happening off screen).
Moff
Member
I'll just kidnap this post from the other thread to answer it.
just to say I think the scene was definitely about BOTH sansa and theon.
after all, if it follows the books, they will run away together after that.
I agree with that post, which is part of what I was trying to convey just above. Yes, Theon is acting as an audience surrogate in that scene, mirroring (and amplifying) the reaction the audience would have to the situation. I don't believe it was meant to minimize Sansa's part in the scene, but instead illuminate how disturbingly awful the situation was. BUT I think I can understand that criticism.
Frozenprince
Banned
So I'v seen like half of season one and all of season five so far.
Are they just not going to do anything with Aegon Targaryen? Who did he get fused with, if anybody?
Are they just not going to do anything with Aegon Targaryen? Who did he get fused with, if anybody?
Moff
Member
at the moment the consensus is that he is either replaced by trystane martell or not in the show at all
His storyline is just not included in the show.
Too 'boring' I'd assume.
Or they're implying he's expendable
Frozenprince
Banned
Thanks.
I just can't get into the show, the books have tailed off at the end too but the show just feels like they're torn between playing it too safe to the books and trying to do it's own thing and as a result does neither well.
It's kinda stupid tbh considering how much his coming will influence the world, even if it just helps Dany not be so bat shit insane again for a few chapters/episodes.
Moff
Member
btw. was anyone else really afraid that the face in the face storage in front of arya would open it's eyes just for the sake of shock value? that would have been worse than the sand snakes.
well we don't really know that. and many, myself included, thought he was a stupid plot device in the books in the first place, and are fine with him being gone. and if he really does something important, they can have trystane do it.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I kept expecting that.
Funny, but it would be more accurate for the bloated AFFC/ADWD if Fat Walda was substituted for Sansa. .
Frozenprince
Banned
He's likely a Blackfyre and another Quinton.
Never understood how it was a stupid plot device.
If it came out of nowhere, maybe I could see it. But they've been laying the foundation throughout the entire series.
Trystane will stop flirting with Myrcella and conquer the Stormlands?
On the positive side, we'll get to see Missandei and Grey Worm's love prosper!
Youre missing out on some quality Dorne adaptation, among other things!
Frozenprince
Banned
Moff
Member
well there have been foundations equally big for dragons being alive in other parts of the world and i would still think of them as a stupid plot device if they suddenly appeared midway in the saga and became an important part of the endgame. I still thinks he comes out of nowhere, regardless of the hints and it doesnt sit well with me. and it would be even worse if he is a fake, which is likely at this point. I hope he dies soon, at least.
as for trystane, if he does anything important it will be at doran's bidding, he certainly doesnt have a mind of his own. but i definitely see the possibility of some kind of a love triangle between him, myrcella and danerys if they choose to go down that route, and although he also appeared only now at least we know he was always there and not kept hidden all his life to be let loose when the time is right. but i certainly don't want or expect him to be an endgame player either, he and aegon should both die as soon as possible, perferably roasted by dragons.
This came up in Grantland's weekly Game of Thrones debrief:
Anyone got a link to a bonkers technology theory or two?
Anyone got a link to a bonkers technology theory or two?
Frozenprince
Banned
I just see the show only surviving if they take a gigantic turn away from the books. And the best way to do that is to kill a main character who lives in the books. So, who's got bets on who kicking it? Jon is probably safe (well other than getting stabbed).
while i agree with you, i think one of the reasons why the show is suffering this year is because of too few characters. i mean, of the last 12 hours of TV time, how many hours were spent showing us how horrible ramsay is? one of the many reasons the sansa scene felt unnecessary. i feel like one fresh plot worked in this season would be helping the show quite a bit.
That's the rightful king of Westeros you're talking about, you stop it!
Aegon/Sansa.
Also someone tweeted to Cogman that it was fortunate for Arya that her actress was underage last season when she was traveling with the hound. Beautiful.
bengraven
Member
JonSa for lyfe.
I do agree that this does add to his character - he doesn't want to see this. It's still a Sansa and Theon scene even if it's her pain and suffering that's the focus. I just take issue with the argument that because we focus on him it's suddenly "his" scene, that "his character building" is the important one - it's silly. This is traumatic for both of them, though obviously much more for one. This is ABOUT Sansa, but he isn't fond of this either. We can't just say "fuck Theon" because we're so upset over what's going on to her.
I do agree that this does add to his character - he doesn't want to see this. It's still a Sansa and Theon scene even if it's her pain and suffering that's the focus. I just take issue with the argument that because we focus on him it's suddenly "his" scene, that "his character building" is the important one - it's silly. This is traumatic for both of them, though obviously much more for one. This is ABOUT Sansa, but he isn't fond of this either. We can't just say "fuck Theon" because we're so upset over what's going on to her.
I do wonder if book theon would probably be like "all right, I'll watch, fuck it and fuck her anyway, she never liked me"
TheWarrior
Banned
Book 4 was a slog and 5 wasn't much better. I had hoped they would cut out a lot of the useless stuff from the books and they did. The problem is what they replaced some of it with.
My only gripe at whst was taken out is the removal of the Iron Island stuff. I don't know why that was removed.
Jon's
Jamie missing a hand.
Tyron missing a nose.
Davos missing fingers.
Varys missing balls.
Theon missing . . a lot.
Really though, be nice to see Theon in scenes without Ramsey next season. He never got any real action scenes outside chopping off whatshisface head.
badcrumble
Member
To be fair, we don't know that Valyria hadn't discovered those things.
But also, in political economy terms, devastating and frequent multi-year ice ages (which is basically what Westerosi winters are) are going to prevent the accumulation of value that is necessary for technological and economic progress.
If we'd been hit by an ice age or a Black Plague every other decade for the last 500 years we wouldn't have invented any of that stuff either.
hipsterpants
Member
Arya's the only "main" female character (though Brienne might count) left on the show that hasn't been raped yet. Bravo D&D.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Isn't that pretty much what the Citadel is trying to do? Exterminate the dragons and magic as they imply that magic is holding the world back from actual technological advancement.
That would not make much sense, would it?
This is why combining Jeanne Poole with Sansa is such a stupid idea, Jeanne has a horrible life and is forced to pretend to be someone else and to be married to a psycho, of course she wants to scape, Sansa wants to get revenge and get back her homeland, the one thing she doesn't want to do is leave, the relationship with Winterfell is diametrically opposite for these two so it's really hard to defend D&D choice here of mixing both storylines, it really seems they basically wanted Sansa to be tortured again for no reason at all.
bengraven
Member
Dude, everyone wants Theon dead. I think the Lannisters are the only ones without legit beef but then again they might be like "oh, your dad pulled that shit a few years ago...didn't Robert and Ned say something about your life being forfeit if he ever did that again?"
Religion and magic are too powerful for technology to overcome. Or perhaps the "lesson learned" from Valyria is that technology leads to destruction.
Byakuya769
Member
Perhaps technological advances don't happen at the same rate in every timeline... weird thing for people to get hung up on.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Pretty hard to make advancements with winters that last decades.
Basileus777
Member
There are indicators that the commonly held time scale is wrong and that it hasn't been the thousands of years legends say it has.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
I've never heard this before. I thought the maesters have been around since the First Men. Wouldn't from at least that point onward be accurate?
hendersonhank
Member
Will you bravo GRRM when Sansa takes a marriage for ulterior motives in the book and has to grit her teeth through the consummation?
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