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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO

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foxtrot3d

Banned
And still...
tumblr_m64pccgffs1rxhplio1_500.jpg

He's hiding in plain sight.

Oh cripes you guys got me reading about Littlefinger theories, and I just made the connection that he was responsible for the very first plot point that the whole series starts off with - the death of Jon Arryn.

(Am a non book reader, kinda wish the show underscored that somehow)

He's also the one that convinced Joffery to kill Ned Stark, probably persuaded him to attempt to assassinate Bran, is hinted to be the one that led Stannis to discover that Robert's children were bastards, engineered the dwarves appearing at Joffery's wedding to incite Tyrion, helped kill Joffery, and much more.
 

golem

Member

Speevy

Banned
Maybe there's a super secret organization of wildlings and former night's watchmen who the whitewalkers can't get to. When do we meet them?
 

bengraven

Member
So the Tyrell brothers. Those were kind of left field - fans knew the other characters were important and have lamented their exclusion, but Wilas and Garlan (?) have been mostly hidden other than mentioned during Sansa's situation when she was in King's Landing.

With Marg in prison and Loras possibly dying, does this mean the brothers are coming to KL? With Arianne possibly getting there next book that could mean KL will be very very different once Cersei's trial is over. What part do they play?

Maybe one of the brothers falls for one of the Martells? I think that could be a strong possiblity - the two clans have been fighting for centuries - a wedding of, say, Arianne and Wilas would suddenly band their houses together.

And then Dany shows up and if what Tyrion hinted was true and they could possibly get Tyrell support, they already have Martells...

The South supports them.

Then maybe we get some northerners supporting Dany, if Stannis and Ramsay both die...or if the Boltons switch again?

And then Walder switches because he always does.

And Euron offers himself to Dany.

Got DAMN.

It's like a game of Civ where you have one city state left after having conquered an entire continent by spreading religion and culture.
 

bengraven

Member
Honestly?

When we had that maybe too long over dramatic meeting of Jon and the NK and Jon started looking around, I felt like something significant was going to happen. More so than an undead cock length contest.

I was seriously expecting a wight to walk forward from the crowd and it be Benjen.
 
Man, the cabin fever between this season and next in this thread is gonna be something else.

(This is not in response to any particular post, just a general observation!)
 

Iksenpets

Banned
And who grew up in Riverrun?

Stuff in ASOIAF doesn't just happen... Least of all populist movements

I would totally disagree with that. Stuff does just happen, especially in the last two books. The Sparrow story is explicitly about how the violence of the war caused a religious revival among the people. No one planned it, it was just a spontaneous sociological thing. I think people really overestimate the degree to which Littlefinger and Varys control things, versus how adept they are at improvising with the situation. That's kind of hammered home in the book scenes where the Griffs' crew talk about how frequently Varys and Illyrio have changed plans. Plans fall apart, the schemers are the ones who react well to it. Littlefinger doesn't have some grand scheme; chaos is just a ladder. He planted a seed of chaos in the beginning and has ridden the wave where it's taken him. He may look for ways to use the faith to his advantage, but he's not plying some three dimensional chess knowing exactly how everyone will react at every turn so that he can create a religious movement without anyone knowing. He thrives off of chaos, which inherently means he doesn't know where things are going.
 

suzu

Member
I think that if the other thread suddenly spilled in here, they would be like what the fuck are you guys talking about

That's why it's kinda funny to me that some people in the other thread are like "har-har let's combine the threads next season cuz no more spoilers".
 

bengraven

Member
Seriously thinking about doing a read/re-read thread for the series. It will probably take 6 months if I divide it evenly, but I thought it would be a good place to read the books again, together. Go over things we notice, foreshadowing possibilities, etc.

Also to invite the viewers to join in. I figure by now there isn't much we could talk about that would ruin their enjoyment, especially if we ban all Winds preview chapters talk. Nah, I suppose it would be better to have two threads.
 
Yeah I mean there's two levels of spoilers in here (published vs TWOW), a combined thread would be a shit show of spoilers. They'd need a mod just for that thread alone.
 

Euron

Member
Honestly?

When we had that maybe too long over dramatic meeting of Jon and the NK and Jon started looking around, I felt like something significant was going to happen. More so than an undead cock length contest.

I was seriously expecting a wight to walk forward from the crowd and it be Benjen.
I was waiting for that the entire episode. Even worse I had to double take every time I saw a white walker thinking Benjen was transformed or something.
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
Wait, when did this happened?

Varys basically implies it when speaking with Tyrion in ACOK.

ACOK said:
“I does seem my sister was telling the truth about Stark’s death. We have my nephew to thank for that madness.”

“King Joffrey gave he command. Janos Slynt and Ser Ilyn Payne carried it out, swiftly, without hesitaiton…”

“...almost as if they had expected it. Yes, we have been over this ground before, without profit. A folly."

That last line is all but implying that someone had foretold Slynt and Payne that Ned Stark would be executed, when you piece it together with the rest of their conversation and the fact that Slynt is in LF's pocket the culprit is easy to identify.

The other part of their convo regards Stannis learning of Joffery's bastardy:

ACOK said:
“He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion.”

“Perhaps he read a book and looked at the color of a bastard’s hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered it in his ear.” The eunuch’s laugh was not his usual giggle, but deeper and more throaty.

“Someone like you, perchance?”

“Am I suspected? It was not me.”

“If it had been, would you admit it?”

“No. But why should I betray a secret I have kept so long? It is one thing to deceive a king, and quite another to hide from the cricket in the rushes and the little bird in the chimney. Besides, the bastards were there for all to see.”

“Robert’s bastards? What of them?”

“He fathered eight, to the best of my knowing,” Varys said as he wrestled with the saddle. “Their mothers were copper and honey, chestnut and butter, yet the babes were all black as ravens … and as ill-omened, it would seem. So when Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen slid out between your sister’s thighs, each as golden as the sun, the truth was not hard to glimpse.”

Tyrion shook his head. If she had borne only one child for her husband, it would have been enough to disarm suspicion … but then she would not have been Cersei. “If you were not this whisperer, who was?”

“Some traitor, doubtless.” Varys tightened the cinch.

“Littlefinger?”

“I named no name.”
 

bengraven

Member
I really would like a thread for viewers to finally start reading but I suppose it will be less populated than a re-read thread.

If I do it, will anyone partake? It will be after the season is over, a few weeks or so after.

If Winds does come out before the next season it would be a great idea I think.
 
Varys basically implies it when speaking with Tyrion in ACOK.



That last line is all but implying that someone had foretold Slynt and Payne that Ned Stark would be executed, when you piece it together with the rest of their conversation and the fact that Slynt is in LF's pocket the culprit is easy to identify.

The other part of their convo regards Stannis learning of Joffery's bastardy:

Thank you for providing some insertion. Yeah, it could be seen as implied. But I wouldn't confirm that. I think that Joffrey was always evil and had those psychopath tendencies. I still believe he did that to Ned and Bran by his own motivation.
 
Oh cripes you guys got me reading about Littlefinger theories, and I just made the connection that he was responsible for the very first plot point that the whole series starts off with - the death of Jon Arryn.

(Am a non book reader, kinda wish the show underscored that somehow)
wait...the show didn't spell this out? I would've imagined the Only Cat scene would contain this, I never caught S4E10 though
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
That definitely doesn't fit with the setup at all. Joff did that on his own, in response to events he encountered at Winterfell.

Maybe. GRRM was asked this exact question and his response was:

"Well, Littlefinger did have a certain hidden influence over Joff... but he was not at Winterfell, and that needs to be remembered."

It's a sort of non-answer, that at the same time reveals what we suspected. LF had a certain level of influence over Joffery. Whether that meant he's responsible for the Bran attempt is another thing.

Thank you for providing some insertion. Yeah, it could be seen as implied. But I wouldn't confirm that. I think that Joffrey was always evil and had those psychopath tendencies. I still believe he did that to Ned and Bran by his own motivation.

The Bran attempt is questionable but I think Varys goes out of his way to imply LF is the culprit with regards to Ned. Remember, soon after discussing the whole Ned Stark execution Varys gives Tyrion his riddle about power and how a "little man" can cast a very large shadow. This is also supported by several other characters reaction to the incident, Tywin is troubled and sends Tyrion to serve as Hand since he believes that someone is giving Joffery "bad counsel." Yet, Cercei has very similar thoughts of surprise about the incident as Tyrion:
Cercei said:
"He called for Lord Eddard’s head in front of half the city. And Janos Slynt and Ser Ilyn went ahead blithely and shortened the man without a word from me!"
 
The show spells out he had her kill Jon Arryn, but it doesn't help the viewer connect that back to being the first plot point in the whole series.

Yeah, there are quite a few people in the unsullied thread who don't quite grasp how much LF has fucked the kingdom in his rise to power. The entire Stark/Lannister war is his fault, including the dagger he blamed on Tyrion, (and only Tyrion is aware that LF is the one who...fingered him). He's no more a father figure to Sansa than he was a friend to Ned or a lover to Lysa, he destroyed their lives to make himself a great Lord.
 
Coherence doesn't at all suggest better writing. As a matter of fact, it only suggests that show stuff is tied well to other show stuff, which is why the writers have to make every single thing stupidly clear to everyone.

Yep. I'd say you could swap "coherence" out for "straight forward and streamlined" which is what they're going for. If you want to take the slow boat through Westeros, that's what the books are there for.
 

jett

D-Member
There was a "leak" way back which said that in episode 8 Jon follows Tormund to Hardhome because they want to stop Rattleshirt from selling slaves there, and the Others attack while they're there, causing Tormund to sacrifice himself to save Jon and as Jon is getting away the Night's King looks him in the eye.

So either that was some early script which was changed drastically, or someone pieced together stuff based on production updates and made up an inaccurate but similar outline for the major event in the episode.

There was a lot of BS. Wasn't there also a rumor about episode 7 featuring something absolutely horrible, the worst thing ever shown in the show? Eh.
 
So is Dany's plan to conquer Westeros, destroy the wheel or whatever, and then leave the realm to fall into chaos when she dies because she'll have no heirs?
 

-griffy-

Banned
Special shout out to Wun-Wun and the awesome giant action:
More than made up for the rather sparse giant action in Watchers on the Wall last season, where the only real standout was that huge arrow (tunnel scene was cool but it cut away before the action, so it is disqualified).
 
Yeah, there are quite a few people in the unsullied thread who don't quite grasp how much LF has fucked the kingdom in his rise to power. The entire Stark/Lannister war is his fault, including the dagger he blamed on Tyrion, (and only Tyrion is aware that LF is the one who...fingered him). He's no more a father figure to Sansa than he was a friend to Ned or a lover to Lysa, he destroyed their lives to make himself a great Lord.

As a non-book reader, I am pretty glad I spoiled myself as I really enjoy all the crazy theory crafting and book lore far more than just the story as is.
 
On the one hand I hate this show for doing so many cheap and trashy things, on the other hand I love it for giving us what GRRM holds out on for years and a thousand fucking pages.
 
Something has just occurred to me about Sansa's new storyline. When I read the books I was led to believe that Winterfell had some sort of magic tied to it. Bran the builder built the Wall and also built Winterfell. Winterfell's crypts are very mysterious and I was led to believe there was something down there which would be revealed at some point.

Anyway there is the saying that there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. When I read the books it led me to believe that Winter (as in the White Walkers) returned because there are no Stark's in Winterfell, however now Sansa is in Winterfell that kind of killed that theory for me.
 
I really liked that visual imagery of the White Walker generals on horseback on top of the mountains shrouded by the blizzard as hell breaks loose below. That was fucking epic.
 
Something has just occurred to me about Sansa's new storyline. When I read the books I was led to believe that Winterfell had some sort of magic tied to it. Bran the builder built the Wall and also built Winterfell. Winterfell's crypts are very mysterious and I was led to believe there was something down there which would be revealed at some point.

Anyway there is the saying that there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. When I read the books it led me to believe that Winter (as in the White Walkers) returned because there are no Stark's in Winterfell, however now Sansa is in Winterfell that kind of killed that theory for me.

I doubt she'll be there for long.
 
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