I'm gonna post this again:
Season 2 episode 10:
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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hipsterpants
Member
I'm all for speculaton but maybe we should just wait for 8.5 hour to see what really happens lol.
Red Arremer
Member
Yeah, I agree. The entire sense of duty/justice thing is mostly just a front, partly to mask his true, a lot more pragmatic self. Many of his actions have proven that (e.g. the employ of criminals like Davos or Mance. as well as the assassination of Courtney Penrose and, to a lesser extent, Renly). He's a very complex character, for sure.
But I'm not sure he'd be willing to burn his only child.
Speaking of which, I've recently been reading the Mannifesto, which I heavily recommend as it's a fantastic analysis of Stannis' campaign in the North and very compelling speculation.
Speaking of which, I've recently been reading the Mannifesto, which I heavily recommend as it's a fantastic analysis of Stannis' campaign in the North and very compelling speculation.
cartoon_soldier
Member
There would be a difference between others and his only child. I am not saying it is totally out of character, but just seems like a strange decision. It also continues to make the Winterfell storyline (which I was a fan of initially) make no sense.
It's because we have seen him lead the charge against unjust rulers and saving the ass of people we like.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Even that feels idiotic. 20 men sneak into the camp and burn all the supply lines. Heavily defended supply lines, I might add. Oh I forgot this is D&D...maybe the supply lines aren't guarded at all!
If anything this confirms what I've long felt about D&D. They're poor writers who have severely misunderstood Martin's general approach to plotting. Martin's books are full of shocking events, but very few come out of nowhere. There is foreshadowing and a lot of groundwork for most of the things he does. He doesn't randomly pull a trick out his sleeve.
I don't care about adaptions being different from books; a film/tv adaption has to deviate from a novel, that's just the reality of the mediums. My problem isn't that things have been changed, my problem is that D&D have spent years constructing a variety of things that have no meaning or value. Their view of shock is to simply throw something out the window. It's hard to take anything seriously when the most random of decisions are made to "shock" the audience, regardless of what was established beforehand. It's like baking a cake: you put all the ingredients in the bowl, then you suddenly decide to remove the already cracked eggs from the bowl. You're fucking up your cake, dude.
If anything this confirms what I've long felt about D&D. They're poor writers who have severely misunderstood Martin's general approach to plotting. Martin's books are full of shocking events, but very few come out of nowhere. There is foreshadowing and a lot of groundwork for most of the things he does. He doesn't randomly pull a trick out his sleeve.
I don't care about adaptions being different from books; a film/tv adaption has to deviate from a novel, that's just the reality of the mediums. My problem isn't that things have been changed, my problem is that D&D have spent years constructing a variety of things that have no meaning or value. Their view of shock is to simply throw something out the window. It's hard to take anything seriously when the most random of decisions are made to "shock" the audience, regardless of what was established beforehand. It's like baking a cake: you put all the ingredients in the bowl, then you suddenly decide to remove the already cracked eggs from the bowl. You're fucking up your cake, dude.
Moff
Member
I think they did a great job to make him a cool dude this season, book stannis wasn't really a cool dude either before the end of ASOS.
so if they change that again it's not unlikely he will do something similiar in the books
He wants her to take the throne if he fails so it doesn't seem likely.
cartoon_soldier
Member
eot
Banned
PhoenixDark
Banned
You just copy pasted your reply from reddit
It was a timed exclusive.
Stannis burning Shireen wouldn't be coming out of nowhere. Not only has it been discussed this season already, but the foundations were laid as early as season 2.
cartoon_soldier
Member
AAAND it is confirmed via pics that Stannis does indeed watch Shireen. burn.
In GoT, if you are a good person you just get fucked.
In GoT, if you are a good person you just get fucked.
I refuse to believe that D&D are actually spoiling content from TWOW, but that's just me.
In fact, knowing Stannis as we know him
at this point I think book Stan would die before putting her daughter at risk.
Right, he loves her very much, but not because she is his sweet little baby. It's because she is a princess and he is a king.
She is precious to him because she represents his bloodline, and if she serves her purpose by helping him climb the steps of the iron throne, then so be it.
I'm sure she'd still be at Dragonstone if Stannis looked at her the same way Tywin looked at Tyrion.
Let's look at this logically.
-Stannis agrees to burn Gendry
-Stannis agrees to burn the Florents
-Stannis leads his own men onto the battlefield after most of them have died of wildfire without concern for the cost.
-Stannis burns Mance Rayder when he didn't have to simply because the man wouldn't kneel to him. What purpose did this serve? He'll never see or rule over the wildlings even with Mance alive.
-Stannis won't even bargain with the iron banker.
-Stannis tries to murder Melisandre because he feels like her prophecies are lies.
Stannis Baratheon is a cold, hard man who sees only duty. He doesn't care about anything but his God-given right to rule.
It would be great if they brought this back for the credits tonight.
Gabriel_Logan
Member
Reddit's down for me lol.
There is some more disturbing information in those spoilers concerning the wonderful Dorne plot
Doran agrees to send Myrcella back to KL accompanied by Trystane? wut
Unless in the last episode he sends the SS after them with orders of killing everyone in KL that makes almost as much sense as Sansa in WF marrying the Invincible man.
Unless in the last episode he sends the SS after them with orders of killing everyone in KL that makes almost as much sense as Sansa in WF marrying the Invincible man.
Was that the purpose of that hug scene? Or what about his visits to Shireen those past seasons where he speaks to her like a loving father showing his human side? If she purely represented his bloodline he would have had her killed or shipped away so that it wouldn't be seen that his bloodline was tainted or cursed. No. The purpose of all his past interactions with Shireen in the show was the show that he actually loves his daughter.
I was trying to put myself in the position of D&D defenders!
In fairness though, I don't get the uproar. Stannis sacrificing a family member to advance his claim to the throne? Sounds familiar.
Stannis defenders are a strange breed. Selyse having a problem with it is a bit off though.
Leeches don't work, Balon is still chillin' at Pyke.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
It's not unbelievable to me that if Stannis thinks the red god will give him the throne, the red god will also give him an heir.
And if he's not meant to have the throne, killing a child is one of the unforgivable sins in most storytelling so....
And if he's not meant to have the throne, killing a child is one of the unforgivable sins in most storytelling so....
Haha, that got me.
I'm not even going to look, fuck that shit. I'm done discussing this. I'll watch the episode and then write D&D off completely.
He says "You do not belong with the bloody stone men. You are the princess Shireen of house Baratheon and you are my daughter."
She hugs him. That fits exactly what I said. Because Stannis is who he is, he values Shireen as a part of his royal bloodline.
Can you link me to these loving scenes? I only remember one where she's talking to him like a normal person and he's all stoic and distant.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Just read the summary on r/asoiaf...
Seriously though, how do you redeem this character now?
You don't. He dies. Hopefully Brienne kills him. END of house Baratheon.
Red Arremer
Member
Not exactly.
Stannis is a cold, hard man who sees only duty, yes, but duty to whom? To his family, and the subjects he presumes to rule.
Duty to his wife didn't prevent him from making shadow babies with Melisandre.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Eh...I have more problem with
to be honest.
Selyse not wanting her daughter to be burned than Stannis doing it
Red Arremer
Member
The first one was created only by Melisandre's own agenda, Stannis did not intend to kill Renly with a Shadow Assassin, which is reflected by his reaction upon learning that, and generally when remembering Renly. He only consciously uses it with Penrose.
And of course, Melisandre is a temptress and a sorceress, perhaps even more.
Both the books and the show have Stannis at a place where he can't possibly win against Roose Bolton without a major change in fortunes.
He's outnumbered, starving, freezing, and something has to change.
All D&D have done is create a situation where he takes matters into his own hands and changes his own fortunes.
It's not a popular decision, and it may make you hate him, but equating this with putting Sansa in Winterfell or Ironborn afraid of dogs is lunacy.
Stannis has been seduced by the red lady since the beginning.
In the show, rejecting her advice means death. You'd rather have him die than kill his daughter, as would I. But he doesn't take that path.
He's outnumbered, starving, freezing, and something has to change.
All D&D have done is create a situation where he takes matters into his own hands and changes his own fortunes.
It's not a popular decision, and it may make you hate him, but equating this with putting Sansa in Winterfell or Ironborn afraid of dogs is lunacy.
Stannis has been seduced by the red lady since the beginning.
In the show, rejecting her advice means death. You'd rather have him die than kill his daughter, as would I. But he doesn't take that path.
it's like they reversed the characters, seriously i don't think it will happen that way in the books, Martin is not that bad at writing
Ape Gone Insane
Member
Yet Balon still lives.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
They just haven't had time to dedicate to that storyline. It would be weird for Balon to die and then have *nothing* about it the rest of the season.
The first one (and the second) was created by Melisandre's agenda and Stannis cheating on his wife. That's my point. Duty to family is far outweighed by his belief that he is the rightful King of Westeros.
Seriously. Lots of people may be looking for a new #Team after tonight
Red Arremer
Member
But the situation in the books is entirely different. Stannis has Theon and fArya, which is going to draw out the Boltons - the acquisition of fArya weakens the Boltons' claim to the North and Winterfell. And there's a good reason why Stannis is camping in the crofter's village. It's very likely that he'll defeat the Frey forces.
Gabriel_Logan
Member
Oh most definitely, I think a lot of Stannis supporters are gonna jump on #TeamNight'sKing . I want a live face cam on GRRM as he watches this episode.
cartoon_soldier
Member
And after Jon is stabbed with no resurrection
...
Everybody is going to be like fuck westeros. Night King's ftw.
Just when I thought the last two episodes were turning around some of the shit decisions they've made this year we get this. d & d don't get
and never have
Stannis
Don't buy for a minute that Stannis would sacrifice Shireen in either the show or the books, she's his daughter, literally the only person he cares about. It's not some bastard boy he's never met, or some tangentially connected family member of his wife
Even if Ramsay and 20 men completely decimate his chances in the upcoming battle, which is stupid enough to begin with, he would rather lose and send them back to Castle Black to raise a sellsword army, like he deals with Justin Massey & Tycho Nestoris
Even if Ramsay and 20 men completely decimate his chances in the upcoming battle, which is stupid enough to begin with, he would rather lose and send them back to Castle Black to raise a sellsword army, like he deals with Justin Massey & Tycho Nestoris
Atraveller
Banned
You made it sound like D&D is trying to torch one of the most popular TV series and run.
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