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[Spirit of Jazz]

Stannis is clearly a complete fucking idiot military commander in all ways.

I think that was apparent when pulled a book Loras and was the first to ascend the walls at the Battle of Blackwater.

 

[Kusagari]

Again it was done way too sudden for it to be believable. I can understand her changing mind gradually when Shireen starts screaming but it's done like a snap.

I disagree. Her reassuring of Stannis in retrospect clearly comes off as her trying to convince herself it's the right thing to do. Shireen screaming for her was the last straw that broke the facade.

It's actually brilliant writing to me, regardless of what you think of the scene as a whole. Selyse hated Shireen but even she wasn't cold enough to go through with burning her own flesh and blood.

It shows how dehumanizing Stannis' convictions really are.

 

[PfantzyPantz]

Lol at Dany trying to build a massive army to take back her home, she obviously needs Ramsay as her advisor instead of Tyrion.

The Harpy problem woulda been finished overnight.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Uhm, actually have defended my all important supply line and made sure that these items were guarded at all time? He literally let ALL HIS SIEGE WEAPONS get destroyed by 20 men without so much as an alarm being sounded until Ramsay's men were all but finished with the job.

Seriously if this can plausibly happen, then the only conclusion is Stannis is a complete fucking moron.

To be fair, they were good men.

Spoiler

The problem is that that was a B&B decision, as has everything else awful about this show so far this season because they're hack frauds. I wasn't surprised at all that GRRM suggested Stannis burn Shireen because it's literally the only thing that happened in this season that made any sense at all haha. It's a shame that it had to come about because of completely implausible circumstances involving poor attack plans and 20 good ninjas because B&B don't know what they're doing.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

So does NeoGAF still love Stannis?

Book Stannis is still awesome. Show Stannis never even got his cart before the horse moment. They've done the poor guy dirty for most of his run on the show.

I hope next season we get to see Ramsay take King's Landing with twenty good men AND some doggies.

 

[bengraven]

I see Book Stannis doing it more than Show Stannis. The man burdened by his own sense of responsibility and ego.

Teeth grit, he'd be like "oh well, burn her I suppose".

Oh wow so from the inside the episode it does seem like it happens similarly in the books.

I was shocked, too, but it fits into the story, regardless of what people say about Stannis's character. Stannis sent Davos away for a reason, I always wondered why when reading Feast, but now it makes sense. He's close to the girl - Stannis knew this was going to have to be his plan Z eventually.

 

[dave is ok]

Edit: double post

Now it's gone? Mobile is acting weird

 

[m_shortpants]

Jorah sucking in the fights looked terrible as well. Especially because 2 seconds after he can throw a spear with deadly accuracy over 50 feet.

 

[mariachi507]

So GRRM told them. Hahahahahaha.

Where does this leave the D&D are SICK, everything they do is just for SHOCK crowd now?

Honestly, the hyperbole this season in this thread has been ridiculous.

Yep, were going to get a lot of D&D are hacks/this is fan fiction for the next two seasons despite what parts actually end up being George's idea.

I'm also not defending the burning of Shireen, I was not able to enjoy the rest of the episode after having to watch that.

 

[Cidd]

Do we know the writing/directing credits for next week's episode? It needs to be really good from start to finish (with a decent helping of the good guys winning) or I think a fair amount of people are gonna peace out.

Like Dany did?



LOL!

 

[Kerned]

Lol at Dany trying to build a massive army to take back her home, she obviously needs Ramsay as her advisor instead of Tyrion.

The Harpy problem woulda been finished overnight.

Right, he has several dogs.

 

[You Know Nothing]

It's all about #TeamSirPounce at this point. B-)

I'm #TeamLemonCakes really.

Just let them sit the Iron Throne. A better choice than any actual human being.

 

[ultron87]

I'm mostly just annoyed at the apparent remote stealth fire bombs Ramsey set in the camp.

 

[Gnome]

So how did Ramsay start the fires? I saw no arrows or any of his men, or torches. I thought for a second The Lord of Light just decided to say fuck Stannis and burn his camp down.

 

[Jarmel]

I disagree. Her reassuring of Stannis in retrospect clearly comes off as her trying to convince herself it's the right thing to do. Shireen screaming for her was the last straw that broke the facade.

It's actually brilliant writing to me, regardless of what you think of the scene as a whole. Selyse hated Shireen but even she wasn't cold enough to go through with burning her own flesh and blood.

It shows how dehumanizing Stannis' convictions really are.

That context might have worked if she hadn't spent the entire season convincing him to do it in the first place. Maybe if her acting was better, it might have portrayed it in a more multifaceted manner.

 

[Judderman]

Simpsons did it.

My god.

 

[LegalEagleMike]

I'm mostly just annoyed at the apparent remote stealth fire bombs Ramsey set in the camp.

He has max Igni.

 

[bengraven]

I was assuming he was using arrows, though we didn't see them.

Yep, were going to get a lot of D&D are hacks/this is fan fiction for the next two seasons despite what parts actually end up being George's idea.

I'm also not defending the burning of Shireen, I was not able to enjoy the rest of the episode after having to watch that.

Yeah, reading this thread after having watched the Behind the Episode was pretty great. I love you guys so I didn't do an "eat crow" post with everyone saying "FUCK YOU DD" "FAN FICTION" "GRRM WOULD NEVER...".

 

[Amir0x]

While we're on the subject of this whole fucked event, did Davos have a feeling Stannis was going to do this? He was trying really hard to convince him to let him take Shireen with him to the Wall.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

It's all about #TeamSirPounce at this point. B-)

Ah yes, welcome brother to #TeamSerPounce!

 

[Jarmel]

While we're on the subject of this whole fucked event, did Davos have a feeling Stannis was going to do this? He was trying really hard to convince him to let him take Shireen with him to the Wall.

He totally did. That's why he gave Shireen the present.

 

[Beelzebufo]

While we're on the subject of this whole fucked event, did Davos have a feeling Stannis was going to do this? He was trying really hard to convince him to let him take Shireen with him to the Wall.

I would say so. Davos knows Stannis pretty well, and Stannis basically told him what he was gonna do.

 

[bengraven]

While we're on the subject of this whole fucked event, did Davos have a feeling Stannis was going to do this? He was trying really hard to convince him to let him take Shireen with him to the Wall.

I don't think so. I think he was worried he was leaving and would come back to a camp full of frozen dead and didn't want to be the one to discover Shireen, frozen in her bed and clutching her doll. I don't think he expects to return to a living camp.

That said, he did find it strange that Mel and the whole family were going a few episodes ago. He gave her that look.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

While we're on the subject of this whole fucked event, did Davos have a feeling Stannis was going to do this? He was trying really hard to convince him to let him take Shireen with him to the Wall.

Davos is actually a dad who cares for his children. So yeah, he knew what he was going to do. Davos also has that fallible 'follow the leader through fire and brimstone' flaw however.

 

[PfantzyPantz]

So how did Ramsay start the fires? I saw no arrows or any of his men, or torches. I thought for a second The Lord of Light just decided to say fuck Stannis and burn his camp down.

Ramsay, R'hllor

Coincidence?

 

[m_shortpants]

So is Davos gonna come back, and denounce Stannis for the one true king (of the north), Rickon Stark?

Or will he chill at the wall ? :\

 

[Yoda]

My general enjoyment of the episode notwithstanding, I thought the whole pit scene was a huge letdown. Also, completely cutting the Quentin stuff, even if that material were to have been given to a different character, was a mistake. Someone trying to steal the dragons and getting burned alive was one of the only good parts of ADWD.

Dorne in general should've been cut entirely. House Martell, to date have had no impact on politics within the realm to warrant creating a new story line for them.

- No character development for Jamie or Bron.
- Recast of Mrycella was not necessary if she was only going to rattle of teenage angst lines.
- Sand Snakes... Talk about a hype failure, on-top of that it looks like they will serve no purpose going forward. Really hope they didn't put too much of the budget into them.
- I'd care the notion of House Martell being too forgiving and it biting them in the ass down the line, but if said even did ever occur I can't say I'd even care.
- The entire idea they needed to sneak into Dorne at all was stupid.

We got this instead of more Bran, Jame in the riverlands, Lady Stoneheart, a non-rushed to shit journey across Pentos for Tyrion, etc... There were sooooo many better options to pick from and they basically tried to pander to the Oberyn fandom crowd.

 

[Gnome]

While we're on the subject of this whole fucked event, did Davos have a feeling Stannis was going to do this? He was trying really hard to convince him to let him take Shireen with him to the Wall.

I got the feeling he knew something was up, which doesn't really sit well with me, Davos has defied Stannis before for Gendry, who was pretty much a nobody to Davos. Now we're talking about Shireen and he just up and skedaddles.

 

[Amir0x]

I was just wondering, because I mean if he was convinced he was going to do it he'd probably carry the guilt for letting it happen.

If he was convinced Stannis was going to do that, I'm not sure why he didn't try something considering what happened with Gendry.

Davos has to kill Stannis now, it is known.

 

[cLOUDo]

Simpsons did it.

jajaja
this must be in the simpsons thread

 

[duckroll]

So how did Ramsay start the fires? I saw no arrows or any of his men, or torches. I thought for a second The Lord of Light just decided to say fuck Stannis and burn his camp down.

There's an extensive flashback scene which was cut from the episode for time. In it, a young shirtless Ramsay and twenty of his best mates are sneaking in the same northern plains Stannis is camping in today, and setting fire to the merchant supplies of a traveling caravan party.

 

[bengraven]

So is Davos gonna come back, and denounce Stannis for the one true king (of the north), Rickon Stark?

Or will he chill at the wall ? :\

I wonder if Davos is going to meet up with Sansa.

The fact that she knows her brothers aren't dead, Davos goes for Rickon in the books, makes me think she'll send him after them.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

Yep, were going to get a lot of D&D are hacks/this is fan fiction for the next two seasons despite what parts actually end up being George's idea.

I'm also not defending the burning of Shireen, I was not able to enjoy the rest of the episode after having to watch that.

I cant really say that, since we dont know what the books will bring and D&D do know the ending (assuming the main points leading to the ending as well). What bothers me is the journey there and how its presented. But who knows? Will continue watching.

 

[Gnome]

There's an extensive flashback scene which was cut from the episode for time. In it, a young shirtless Ramsay and twenty of his best mates are sneaking in the same northern plains Stannis is camping in today, and setting fire to the merchant supplies of a traveling caravan party.

I bet it was GRRM's idea.

 

[OricWindstar]

The one positive from the Stannis situation is getting to see Davos become involved in non-Stannis storylines. Man, I'd love for him and Jorah to cross paths.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I was just wondering, because I mean if he was convinced he was going to do it he'd probably carry the guilt for letting it happen.

Davos has to kill Stannis now, it is known.

Why would he do that? Davos respects Stannis for the hard decisions he makes.

Stannis didn't have to kill Gendry while he was chilling in Dragonstone which is why Davos was pissed, he did have to kill Renly, and he did have to kill Shireen when he was about to die. Davos can respect that, even though it's awful.

 

[Tabris]

There's only one King in the North now and he is truly North.

Brandon Stark, named after the greatest Stark - Brandon the Builder.

I miss his character. No chance of him appearing next episode right?

 

[Jarmel]

I'm looking forward to the Arya prostitution story-thread. yay

 

[suzu]

Davos has to stick around and kill Melisandre.

 

[Basileus777]

The one positive from the Stannis situation is getting to see Davos become involved in non-Stannis storylines. Man, I'd love for him and Jorah to cross paths.

He'll probably teleport to the Wall next episode in time for Olly to take him out during the mutiny.

 

[Amir0x]

Why would he do that? Davos respects Stannis for the hard decisions he makes.

Stannis didn't have to kill Gendry while he was chilling in Dragonstone, he did have to kill Shireen when he was about to die. Davos can respect that, even though it's awful.

Now this really doesn't make sense. Davos went out of his way to save Gendry, but he's going to let Shireen - who he deeply loves - get killed by Stannis without trying something substantial as well?

This is even worse writing than the event itself. The more one thinks about it, the further down the shit hole it goes. Argh. Let me go watch Silicon Valley, this shit is irritating.

 

[Gnome]

I don't know if Hardhome (and Hollywood in general) has set my expectations for CG compositing too high, but I thought the Dragon riding looked like something out of an episode of Once Upon A Time. Which is to say kind of shitty.

 

[Dysun]

Sure hope we get one more Doran scene next week or this entire Dorne storyline is even worse than it already has been. Sure just take my son and only heir with you to the capital, and this "Fire and Blood" shit is dumb anyway!

 

[Kerned]

Davos has to stick around and kill Melisandre.

Or be killed BY her, let's be honest here.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Some of the reactions. Yes, it's a little girl and I was crying as much as the next man baby, but this has already been a harsh fucking world. I think we've gotten too comfortable in our little "we know who's going to happen" world that when something happens to progress the story, whether it was GRRM or DND period, we're like "HEY NO NO".

Maybe it would have been better to wait for all seven books before we did a show.

I don't even have any issue with Shireen getting burned. Its how they went about setting it up in the show that I dislike. Needing to rely on Ramsay's magical ninjas setting off simultaneous fire bombs that magically destroy all of the siege weapons and most of the supplies for an army full of thousands of men? Against somebody who's supposedly one of the best military minds in Westeros? Meh. Its not the plot point that bugs me so much as it is the setup was woefully inadequate and felt pretty contrived. About as contrived as how the Unsullied seemingly become about as effective as blind stormtroopers lately.

Just kind of makes the show less interesting when they're getting so heavy handed in painting characters in such stark black and white terms now. Boltons versus Stannis? Its not a face off between morally gray foes, its a face off between 2 amoral monsters, so I don't really care who wins or loses. Then you have somebody like Dany, who is a pretty terrible ruler yet the show (and books) have given her such heavy plot armor, that it seems pretty clear they want you to root for her. Same with somebody like Brienne, especially now that they made Stannis into real father of the year material.

 

[m_shortpants]

Now this really doesn't make sense. Davos went out of his way to save Gendry, but he's going to let Shireen - who he deeply loves - get killed by Stannis without trying something substantial as well?

This is even worse writing than the event itself.

Ugh. I feel like Davos would be executed rather than let Stannis burn his own daughter. As he already has shown with Gendry, a nobody.

 

[Kerned]

I don't know if Hardhome (and Hollywood in general) has set my expectations for CG compositing too high, but I thought the Dragon riding looked like something out of an episode of Once Upon A Time. Which is to say kind of shitty.

Nah, it looked rough.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Now this really doesn't make sense. Davos went out of his way to save Gendry, but he's going to let Shireen - who he deeply loves - get killed by Stannis without trying something substantial as well?

This is even worse writing than the event itself.

Haha I honestly don't think you've understood anything about either of these two characters.

He saved Gendry because Stannis didn't need to do it, it wasn't a life or death situation. This is exemplified by the fact that after Gendry left, Stannis was just set back a bit. This is completely different, because it is. If Stannis didn't do this, everything would have been lost. He did need to do it, and it's ultimately the right thing to do for the world and humanity. It sucks which is why Stannis was so sad and waited so long, but it's literally the only option to save the entire world.

Do you really not understand this?

 

[Kusagari]

Why would he do that? Davos respects Stannis for the hard decisions he makes.

Stannis didn't have to kill Gendry while he was chilling in Dragonstone which is why Davos was pissed, he did have to kill Renly, and he did have to kill Shireen when he was about to die. Davos can respect that, even though it's awful.

I refuse to believe Davos would have "respect" for Stannis killing Shireen.

 

[Operations]

Great episode. Only disliked the Sand snakes and Bronn scenes, which seem to be included deliberately for comic relief.

Shireen got burned by Stannis. Shireen will get roasted by Stannis in the book, too. Stop overanalyzing D&D's behind the scenes comment and just accept this is how GRRM wrote it. This is only the tip of the iceberg, as more and more unpublished book content gets spoiled in the show. Move on people.