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[News Bot]

They already think this is some big scheme to kill them all. Having the nice guy die would only make it seem worse for them, like it was all part of one long con.

In which case the Watch is fucked and the whole scheme is just more ineptitude from the idiot characters in this show.

bad writing is boring, and this season has been anything but boring(save for dorne). Have fun pedantically trying to understand how stanis couldn't hear the boltons charging or how melisandre and Davos made it to the wall so quickly.

This season was mostly boring. Shock scenes are not exciting when they're done to the point of parody. Those aren't pedantic, those are genuine problems born out of bad writing. This show isn't invulnerable to it. Covering your ears and going NANANANANA doesn't change that.

Well, they still have a giant ice wall to hide behind and use to their advantage, so, yes. Easily.

Oh that same giant ice wall the Wildlings were able to infiltrate once already and the Watch have half the numbers they did at that time... okay.

 

[PantherLotus]

This all "HOW DO YOU DARE CRITICIZE THE SHOW" shtick is getting old even faster than the overraction to show changes.

Yes, show changed things because AFFC\ADWD couldn't realistically be adapted 1:1 like the last books.

Yes, some, or most, of the changes were terrible, and mostly based on "We need something to do for this actor".

Except I'm not pretending for a moment that the show is perfect or doesn't deserve a lot of serious criticism. So much of these weak nitpicks are coming from people pretending like the books were flawless, or easily adaptable. Which is at least slightly funny.

 

[kame-sennin]

 

[News Bot]

Except I'm not pretending for a moment that the show is perfect or doesn't deserve a lot of serious criticism. So much of these weak nitpicks are coming from people pretending like the books were flawless, or easily adaptable. Which is at least slightly funny.

Nobody has ever said the books are flawless or easily adaptable. You shouldn't resort to making things up to try and make your argument worthwhile.

 

[Jayof9s]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Wildlings are not 'under the same roof' at Castle Black. I thought that they were allowed to do was go through to settle into the lands past the wall? That scene in ep 9 was the line of them going through to the other side.

Doesn't mean the few Wildlings that have had any interaction with Jon would be happy, but it's not like thousands of them are sleeping the next room over.

I wasn't implying they're under the same roof like the other poster. Just saying, they're still 'neighbors' and I don't see them getting along; it was a tenuous peace with Jon alive. Without him alive, I see the Watch doing something stupid because of their blind hatred of the Wildlings. However, they're massively outnumbered - on the show, they specifically said there were only 50 men left several times - so doing anything is likely to result in them beind wiped out for good.

They just murdered Jon for letting them through. Do you really think they're just going to sit back in Castle Black and twiddle their thumbs while the Wildlings settle a mile down the King's Road?

 

[StanleyStutters]

We don't actually see Stannis die, which makes me think that, for whatever reason, Brienne let him live. I think there's about a 1% chance Jon is dead. He is way too important to the book series, so unless they're going way off page, I don't see him being off the show. Especially with Melisandre making it back to the Wall before he gets stabbed. I would assume that Myrcella is dead, but again we don't see it.

Hopefully the next book is out before the new season, it'll be interesting to see what GRRM does with Stannis and Jon, and how that changes in the series.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

The thing I don't understand....and it's highlighted more in the TV show....if you're going to kill Jon Snow, wouldn't you do it before he rallies a band of Wildlings to follow him across the wall....a band of Wildlings that would be divided, but ultimately see the Night's Watch turning on Jon Snow as just another betrayal?

Keep in mind that it wasn't the entire Night's Watch, it only looked like 15 men or so.

For instance, Thorne et al could leave Jon's body there, and then in the morning when Jon is discovered, accuse the Wildlings of assaulting their Lord Commander.

 

[News Bot]

Keep in mind that it wasn't the entire Night's Watch, it only looked like 15 men or so.

For instance, Thorne et al could leave Jon's body there, and then in the morning when Jon is discovered, accuse the Wildlings of assaulting their Lord Commander.

And then the entire Watch would be butchered because of the actions of 1/3 of its members.

 

[Farmboy]

We don't actually see Stannis die, which makes me think that, for whatever reason, Brienne let him live.

So her sentencing him to death and then lifting up her sword was just to scare him?

I would assume that Myrcella is dead, but again we don't see it.

As someone pointed out: by that logic, maybe Ned is still alive as well.

 

[PantherLotus]

Nobody has ever said the books are flawless or easily adaptable. You shouldn't resort to making things up to try and make your argument worthwhile.

"show me a writer who would be able to condense the overwritten mess that was AFFC and ADWD into something excellent with a limited budget and time constraint"

Pretty much any writer aside from D&D

---> Pretty much any writer aside from D&D <---

 

[Hamlet]

heh

 

[Kaladin]

Damn Bunny can take Highgarden too!

 

[News Bot]

"show me a writer who would be able to condense the overwritten mess that was AFFC and ADWD into something excellent with a limited budget and time constraint"

---> Pretty much any writer aside from D&D <---

Ignoring the rest of the post where I said that while the books are long they have great moments that could be built around with a condensed story, moments which were all ignored by D&D in exchange for "You want a good girl but need a bad pussy." Nice argument tactic there.

 

[fallengorn]

Ha! Amazing.

 

[Kaladin]

Keep in mind that it wasn't the entire Night's Watch, it only looked like 15 men or so.

For instance, Thorne et al could leave Jon's body there, and then in the morning when Jon is discovered, accuse the Wildlings of assaulting their Lord Commander.

Only they would go back the next morning and find Jon is gone because his body joined the undead horde, and the Night's King is using him as the undead commander.

 

[Ithil]

But what about the bad pussy?

 

[Jayof9s]

So her sentencing him to death and then lifting up her sword was just to scare him?



As someone pointed out: by that logic, maybe Ned is still alive as well.

We literally saw Ned's head on a spike later when Joffrey made Sansa look at it.

Not to support/deny the rumors that Stannis/Myrcella/Syrio/90% of the dead characters are alive, but just pointing out that's not a very solid argument with Ned (or Robb).

 

[News Bot]

But what about the bad pussy?

It's the bad pussy we want, but not the one we need right now.

 

[Ganzlinger]

amazing

 

[Vyer]

I wasn't implying they're under the same roof like the other poster. Just saying, they're still 'neighbors' and I don't see them getting along; it was a tenuous peace with Jon alive. Without him alive, I see the Watch doing something stupid because of their blind hatred of the Wildlings. However, they're massively outnumbered - on the show, they specifically said there were only 50 men left several times - so doing anything is likely to result in them beind wiped out for good.

They just murdered Jon for letting them through. Do you really think they're just going to sit back in Castle Black and twiddle their thumbs while the Wildlings settle a mile down the King's Road?

I don't think most of the Wildlings will give a shit about Jon. They just followed the leaders away from zombies. And the Watch is just as happy if most of the Wildlings are dead. This little band doesn't have to worry about going to war for killing the 'traitor'.

And let's not forget the Watch is generally a collection of the shittiest people in Westeros. We're looking more at hardened inmates than master strategists.

 

[brownfedora]

Plot holes shouldn't exist in the first place to need to be plugged with quick scenes that don't plug anything at all. That is textbook bad writing. You're not interested in a debate going by your "non words" nonsense.

I don't understand your comments. TV is episodic by nature. They are not "plugging" plot holes. They're just revealing more of the plot as we get to future episodes.

 

[Jayof9s]

I don't think most of the Wildlings will give a shit about Jon. They just followed the leaders away from zombies. And the Watch is just as happy if most of the Wildlings are dead. This little band doesn't have to worry about going to war for killing the 'traitor'.

And let's not forget the Watch is generally a collection of the shittiest people in Westeros. We're looking more at hardened inmates than master strategists.

Where are you seeing anything in my posts that suggest I think the Wildlings will kill the NW for what they did for Jon?

I said he was keeping the peace between the two groups and now that barrier is gone, the NW is probably going to poke the bear and get themselves killed.

 

[StanleyStutters]

So her sentencing him to death and then lifting up her sword was just to scare him?



As someone pointed out: by that logic, maybe Ned is still alive as well.

I always get suspicious when a show that shows everything cuts away so quickly in a finale. All we see is Brienne raise her sword. It feels like the showrunners wanted to give themselves some wiggle room to bring Stannis back. Nearly every death is shown on screen, but Brienne getting revenge that she has been craving since season 2 doesn't. They decide to cut away and not show her again until next year. Just seems odd.

I think Myrcella is dead. Her situation is harder to write out of. Plus, she is not nearly as big of a character as Stannis is. Though, that whole Dorne storyline felt pretty pointless.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Oh that same giant ice wall the Wildlings were able to infiltrate once already and the Watch have half the numbers they did at that time... okay.

I like how you mention that the Watch have half the numbers, but don't bother to point out any differences on the wildling side. I guess any wildling army is as good as another. The fact that Mance's army was ~10 times the size, had mammoths, multiple giants, siege weaponry, ladders, climbing gear, food and supplies- none of which are possessed by the band of survivors from Hardhome, isn't notably different enough to bear mentioning.

 

[Kaladin]

Any way you look at it, I think we can say the north is fucked.

I mean, yeah....Davos will probably get word to what is left of Stannis's army that they are needed at the wall, but that undead army seems fairly unstoppable.

 

[Shahadan]

I'm just ignoring any post with "D&D" in it and this thread is much less painful to read.

In any case, while Stannis ordered the ultimate sacrifice and lost himself and everything in the process (meaning he went as far as his character could go imo), there is maybe a slight possibility Brienne hesitated to kill a wounded and defenseless man.

Also I couldn't help but think they didn't show it happen because they wanted to avoid Brienne being seen negatively.

 

[Burt]

Any way you look at it, I think we can say the north is fucked.

I mean, yeah....Davos will probably get word to what is left of Stannis's army that they are needed at the wall, but that undead army seems fairly unstoppable.

Hah, because those 12 guys left from what used to be Stannis's army are totally going to head for the wall after everything they've been through.

 

[Magnus]

I'm seeing posts online of the blood puddle being a wolf, and of Jon's eyes going white and warging for a frame or two right before it cuts to black. Any truth to this?

 

[Vyer]

Where are you seeing anything in my posts that suggest I think the Wildlings will kill the NW for what they did for Jon?

I said he was keeping the peace between the two groups and now that barrier is gone, the NW is probably going to poke the bear and get themselves killed.

The post you quoted and added to criticized because the Wildlings weren't 'going to be okay with it', which is why I quoted both.

As far as the Watch doing something stupid....well yeah. There's no reason to expect these guys to care about that. They're just as happy to think they can kill them all. It's not surprising alliser's boys are more focused on the 'traitor'.

 

[munchie64]

Joanna Robinson has a pretty funny article on episode descriptions.

 

[PantherLotus]

Ignoring the rest of the post where I said that while the books are long they have great moments that could be built around with a condensed story, moments which were all ignored by D&D in exchange for "You want a good girl but need a bad pussy." Nice argument tactic there.

Look man we can agree to disagree but you literally said anybody could adapt AFFC/ADWD into a TV Show. You're not being fair in the slightest.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

I'm seeing posts online of the blood puddle being a wolf, and of Jon's eyes going white and warging for a frame or two right before it cuts to black. Any truth to this?

No. Not with the eyes, anyway.

Whether or not the blood puddle looks like a wolf is kind of a personal question, purely dependent upon how many dinosaur shapes you can make out in the sky and how often you see Jesus' face in your morning cup of coffee.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I'm seeing posts online of the blood puddle being a wolf, and of Jon's eyes going white and warging for a frame or two right before it cuts to black. Any truth to this?

No.

I bet every single one of us in here was waiting for it though, haha. It was an unusually long hold on his face. Turned out to just be D&D going all "HE IS DEFINITELY DEAD LOOK AT THE BLOOD YOU SUCKERS"

 

[PantherLotus]

I always get suspicious when a show that shows everything cuts away so quickly in a finale. All we see is Brienne raise her sword. It feels like the showrunners wanted to give themselves some wiggle room to bring Stannis back. Nearly every death is shown on screen, but Brienne getting revenge that she has been craving since season 2 doesn't. They decide to cut away and not show her again until next year. Just seems odd.

I think Myrcella is dead. Her situation is harder to write out of. Plus, she is not nearly as big of a character as Stannis is. Though, that whole Dorne storyline felt pretty pointless.

I said it way earlier but I could totally believe the whole jail tits scene could pay off with an antidote slipped to Bronn. Remember that thing around her neck?

 

[News Bot]

Look man we can agree to disagree but you literally said anybody could adapt AFFC/ADWD into a TV Show. You're not being fair in the slightest.

D&D are the only ones who've adapted them. D&D are the only ones we can judge. They are being judged completely fairly based on the merits of what is mostly their own writing.

 

[StanleyStutters]

I said it way earlier but I could totally believe the whole jail tits scene could pay off with an antidote slipped to Bronn. Remember that thing around her neck?

I didn't think of that, but I could see it going that way. The entire finale felt like the writers were leaving themselves open for next season. So many characters could be in entirely different positions when the new season starts.

 

[Kaladin]

Hah, because those 12 guys left from what used to be Stannis's army are totally going to head for the wall after everything they've been through.

Yeah, I guess you're right......Lord Ramsay still has 20 good north men, am I right?

 

[Aureon]

Except I'm not pretending for a moment that the show is perfect or doesn't deserve a lot of serious criticism. So much of these weak nitpicks are coming from people pretending like the books were flawless, or easily adaptable. Which is at least slightly funny.

Please point to anyone saying books were either flawless or easily adaptable.

There's been someone saying literally anyone would do better than D&D on the regard of a single plotline, and that's one person, total, in the thread.

 

[quik killa]

I always get suspicious when a show that shows everything cuts away so quickly in a finale. All we see is Brienne raise her sword. It feels like the showrunners wanted to give themselves some wiggle room to bring Stannis back. Nearly every death is shown on screen, but Brienne getting revenge that she has been craving since season 2 doesn't. They decide to cut away and not show her again until next year. Just seems odd.

I think Myrcella is dead. Her situation is harder to write out of. Plus, she is not nearly as big of a character as Stannis is. Though, that whole Dorne storyline felt pretty pointless.

I agree with you. It doesn't make sense to not show more of that scene if it was meant to be so straightforward. If Brienne killed Stannis, the most important part of the scene would have been to show how she reacted to finally avenging the murder of Renly.

 

[Jarnet87]

Were getting Dorne next season whether Mrycella survived or not. Dear god episodes dominated by Dorne and Daenerys are gonna be terrible.

 

[1138]

Saw these elsewhere and I could not resist posting them:

 

[jrcbandit]

Jon might be dead on the show and he didn't warg, but Melissandra has to bring him back to life. Otherwise, what was the point of Beric and his resurrections since they aren't doing LSH in the show.

 

[Burt]

No.

I bet every single one of us in here was waiting for it though, haha. It was an unusually long hold on his face. Turned out to just be D&D going all "HE IS DEFINITELY DEAD LOOK AT THE BLOOD YOU SUCKERS"

Yeah, the length of that shot was a total troll aimed at book readers. Having it go that wastefully long without even hinting at the resurrection is actually fucking egregious.

Yeah, I guess you're right......Lord Ramsay still has 20 good north men, am I right?

#SavioroftheNorth

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Jon might be dead on the show and he didn't warg, but Melissandra has to bring him back to life. Otherwise, what was the point of Beric and his resurrections since they aren't doing LSH in the show.

I have a feeling that the phrase, "What was the point?" is going to come up a lot over these final couple of seasons.

 

[Brakke]

Jon might be dead on the show and he didn't warg, but Melissandra has to bring him back to life. Otherwise, what was the point of Beric and his resurrections since they aren't doing LSH in the show.

They were cool and interesting in their own right, made the world a little bit sinister, showed magic coming back.

 

[mantidor]

The blood puddle/wolf thing has made me realized we have come to the level of nutjobs who see Jesus in toasts.

 

[brownfedora]

I have a feeling that the phrase, "What was the point?" is going to come up a lot over these final couple of seasons.

And as we read the books... <cough>Quentyn Martell</cough>

 

[Ark]

I haven't read ADWD Part 2 and I've a couple of questions:

How much of that finale actually happened in the books? Does Dany really get picked up by Dothraki again? If she does, that seems really fucking stupid.

Does Stannis really die? Again, that'd be a really fucking stupid end to a character arc spanning several books.

I guess we're to assume Sansa isn't dead? Idk, this finale totally lost me.

Honestly, I've felt really disillusioned with this season. They completely butchered the Dorne plot, didn't make Jaime look half as badass as he does in the books, and really just lost it tbh.

 

[suzu]

Except I'm not pretending for a moment that the show is perfect or doesn't deserve a lot of serious criticism. So much of these weak nitpicks are coming from people pretending like the books were flawless, or easily adaptable. Which is at least slightly funny.

Really, a lot of people think the books were only okay or mediocre.

Some readers even go as far as to say the last two books were garbage and imply that viewers should be grateful the show even bothered. lol

 

[Aureon]

I haven't read ADWD Part 2 and I've a couple of questions:

How much of that finale actually happened in the books? Does Dany really get picked up by Dothraki again? If she does, that seems really fucking stupid.

Kind of. Mostly, yes.

Does Stannis really die? Again, that'd be a really fucking stupid end to a character arc spanning several books.

No. Not at all.

[/quote]

I guess we're to assume Sansa isn't dead? Idk, this finale totally lost me.

Sansa's plot is completely made up.

Honestly, I've felt really disillusioned with this season. They completely butchered the Dorne plot, didn't make Jaime look half as badass as he does in the books, and really just lost it tbh.

Dorne also didn't happen this way in the books.