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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6 Offseason Thread

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C

Cellbomber

Member
Kaladin said:
The thing I don't understand....and it's highlighted more in the TV show....if you're going to kill Jon Snow, wouldn't you do it before he rallies a band of Wildlings to follow him across the wall....a band of Wildlings that would be divided, but ultimately see the Night's Watch turning on Jon Snow as just another betrayal?
Click to expand...

This takes time to coordinate and gain support. Also why not wait since there was a big chance he didn't even come back?

Are people really needing day and night cycles to show travel time for characters? Boy you must be disappointed in a lot of movies and shows then.
 
D

Dr_LucienSanchez

Banned
This has probably been discussed at length already, but is it pretty much expected that the whole Young Griff / Aegon storyline has been cut entirely from the show?
 
Damerman

Damerman

Member
Speevy said:
Stephen Dillane's acting after "There's not going to be a siege, your grace." was amazing.
Click to expand...

agreed. when he was leaning against that tree losing all hope. thats an emmy right there.

Ganzlinger said:
Thorne should have let Jon and the wildlings outside the Wall. He would have killed Jon anyway and stopped the wildlings.
Click to expand...

what would keep jon and the wildings from doing the siege that they did last season?
 
J

Jayof9s

Member
Ape Gone Insane said:
Would still be a better decision than murdering the Lord Commander and expecting thousands of wildings, a giant and a wolf living under the same roof to just be okay with it.
Click to expand...

Especially since the season went out of its way to establish that there were only 50 men left in the night's watch prior to Hardhome. So after Jon's 'death', Sam leaving, at least a few losses at Hardhome, they have maybe 40 men against hundreds (thousands?) of Wildlings. All that's left is for the watch to get murdered in their sleep.

I'd love to see them try to go antagonize the Wildlings now that they're outnumbered around 100:1 or worse and they don't have the Wall to protect them.
 
K

Kaladin

Member
Another thing I think that Jon's murder highlights, is that the Night's Watch still don't believe there is an army of undead and white walkers out there.

Only a handful have even seen them, right? And most of them are on Jon's side, and it's scoffed at as crazy talk.

And while they might believe that the dead can come back to life, they certainly laugh at the idea of white walkers and an army of undead.

I still remember when Jon recounted stories of seeing giants and other creatures that hadn't been seen as far south as the wall in ages was met with laughter.
 
B

brownfedora

Member
Just for yucks, I think that shot of Jon's blood seeping out on the snow was a bit of symbolism showing that he is the combination of ice and fire..
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
Kaladin said:
Another thing I think that Jon's murder highlights, is that the Night's Watch still don't believe there is an army of undead and white walkers out there.

Only a handful have even seen them, right? And most of them are on Jon's side, and it's scoffed at as crazy talk.

And while they might believe that the dead can come back to life, they certainly laugh at the idea of white walkers and an army of undead.

I still remember when Jon recounted stories of seeing giants and other creatures that hadn't been seen as far south as the wall in ages was met with laughter.
Click to expand...

Only by Slynnt. I think they know but are too limited in their thinking. I wonder what the next step is for them? to try and kill / out the Wildlings? Tormond and Wun Wun will rip Thorne a new asshole if they find out (and why wouldn't they?).
 
S

Squid_Vicious

Member
I think the thing that bothers me the most about the show, is that it offers no aspects of hope. The books do a great job of leaving the reader with something to look forward too and have optimism about.

The show just constantly shits on the viewer, there is no equal light to the dark. I don't think I enjoy this show anymore, while on the other hand I loved the books. Somebody is doing something wrong.

It would not at all surprise me if that was the end of Jon's story (in the show). Start season 6 with his funeral, the Wall will suffer and be weaker without him etc etc...
 
G

Ganzlinger

Member
D&D just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about a Song of Ice and Fire (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like Hollywood where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw your ASOIAF fanbase, you bring shame to your series, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the ASOIAF public, after watching this, is not going to want to purchase the DVDs and Blu-Rays, nor will they purchase any of HBO's series. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but D&D has alienated an entire market with this move.

D&D, publicly apologize and cancel Game of Thrones season 6 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
 
L

Latvian Hitman

Member
Ganzlinger said:
D&D just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about a Song of Ice and Fire (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like Hollywood where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw your ASOIAF fanbase, you bring shame to your series, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the ASOIAF public, after watching this, is not going to want to purchase the DVDs and Blu-Rays, nor will they purchase any of HBO's series. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but D&D has alienated an entire market with this move.

D&D, publicly apologize and cancel Game of Thrones season 6 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Click to expand...

RG0BS1U.gif
 
M

mantidor

Member
The whole Stannis thing is... Urrgh. If he didn't die, they left one of the most contrived and dumb cliffhangers, if he died, his whole arc is a complete waste and a horribly anticlimatic. What a mess.

The show doesn't murder characters, it murders storytelling.
 
J

Jacob

Member
Ganzlinger said:
D&D just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about a Song of Ice and Fire (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like Hollywood where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw your ASOIAF fanbase, you bring shame to your series, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the ASOIAF public, after watching this, is not going to want to purchase the DVDs and Blu-Rays, nor will they purchase any of HBO's series. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but D&D has alienated an entire market with this move.

D&D, publicly apologize and cancel Game of Thrones season 6 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Click to expand...

Shame. Shame. Shame.
 
W

Won

Member
*Krustywthwasthat.gif*

Welp, a rubbish finale to a rubbish season. It started out interesting. Can't hate on trying to trim some fat. But by the end they dropped any pretense of plot and character development and just jumped from "shocking moment" to "shocking momnet".

Might as well try to have some fun with it. I'm now a Theon/Sansa shipper! Let's do this D&D.
 
A

Ape Gone Insane

Member
Won said:
*Krustywthwasthat.gif*

Welp, a rubbish finale to a rubbish season. It started out interesting. Can't hate on trying to trim some fat. But by the end they dropped any pretense of plot and character development and just jumped from "shocking moment" to "shocking momnet".

Might as well try to have some fun with it. I'm now a Theon/Sansa shipper! Let's do this D&D.
Click to expand...

Theon to rape Sansa in Season 6 confirmed.
 
L

Latvian Hitman

Member
mantidor said:
The whole Stannis thing is... Urrgh. If he didn't die, they left one of the most contrived and dumb cliffhangers, if he died, his whole arc is a complete waste and a horribly anticlimatic. What a mess.

The show doesn't murder characters, it murders storytelling.
Click to expand...

He's dead, yo.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Why do people think Stannis is alive? I thought that was pretty unambiguous. They cut away from Ice removing Ned's head as well. Honestly the only major characters that got visually explicit deaths were the Red Wedding crew and Viserys. The rest we were spared the actual moment of death or they weren't all that gruesome like Shae and Tywin.
 
graffix13

graffix13

Member
mantidor said:
The show doesn't murder characters, it murders storytelling.
Click to expand...

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED WITH ALL THE SHOCK DEATHS??!?!?

Why let good storytelling get in the way of shocking deaths and cheap plot devices? It's so cutting edge and modern art.

/s
 
G

Ganzlinger

Member
Crisco said:
Why do people think Stannis is alive? I thought that was pretty unambiguous. They cut away from Ice removing Ned's head as well.
Click to expand...

I think it would be too gruesome to a fan favorite character (Ned). But with Stannis, it looked like Brienne wasn't going to cut his head off or torture him. It would be a clean death.

It doesn't make sense to me not show his death or at least some blood spitting on Brienne's face to make sure he was hit. I hope he is dead to make things less dumb but I really think he isn't dead yet.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
IT'S CHEAP AND SHOCKING WHEN IT'S ON TV AND DELIVERED IN ONE-HOUR SEGMENTS

It's dramatic crescendos reaching logical conclusions after thousands of words when it's delivered in perfectly paced tomes.

###

It's like you can't even see what you're typing! No irony here folks, just good old fashioned criticism of form!
 
V

Vyer

Member
Ape Gone Insane said:
Would still be a better decision than murdering the Lord Commander and expecting thousands of wildings, a giant and a wolf living under the same roof to just be okay with it.
Click to expand...

Jayof9s said:
Especially since the season went out of its way to establish that there were only 50 men left in the night's watch prior to Hardhome. So after Jon's 'death', Sam leaving, at least a few losses at Hardhome, they have maybe 40 men against hundreds (thousands?) of Wildlings. All that's left is for the watch to get murdered in their sleep.

I'd love to see them try to go antagonize the Wildlings now that they're outnumbered around 100:1 or worse and they don't have the Wall to protect them.
Click to expand...

Unless I'm mistaken, the Wildlings are not 'under the same roof' at Castle Black. I thought that they were allowed to do was go through to settle into the lands past the wall? That scene in ep 9 was the line of them going through to the other side.

Doesn't mean the few Wildlings that have had any interaction with Jon would be happy, but it's not like thousands of them are sleeping the next room over.
 
N

News Bot

Banned
Massa said:
The wildlings won't give a fuck that Jon is dead, except maybe Tormund.
Click to expand...

Then D&D are even shittier writers than they've already shown. He saved thousands of them from an army of the dead and gave them shelter and settlements. Of course they'd care.
 
Damerman

Damerman

Member
News Bot said:
Then D&D are even shittier writers than they've already shown. He saved thousands of them from an army of the dead and gave them shelter and settlements. Of course they'd care.
Click to expand...

I'd like for you to show me a writer who would be able to condense the overwritten mess that was AFFC and ADWD into something excellent with a limited budget and time constraint(both in terms of production time and airing time)
 
F

Farmboy

Member
PantherLotus said:
IT'S CHEAP AND SHOCKING WHEN IT'S ON TV AND DELIVERED IN ONE-HOUR SEGMENTS

It's dramatic crescendos reaching logical conclusions after thousands of words when it's delivered in perfectly paced tomes.

###

It's like you can't even see what you're typing! No irony here folks, just good old fashioned criticism of form!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but I will say that I'm not sure anyone would call the
two most recent
books 'perfectly paced'.

Unless that's part of what you are saying.
 
S

SamVimes

Member
Can anyone tell me how the hell are armies sneaking up on people in this show. First the slavers with Tyrion and Jorah, now Dany didn't see nor hear thousand of people on horses until they were under her nose. Are they all Milford School graduates?
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
News Bot said:
Then D&D are even shittier writers than they've already shown. He saved thousands of them from an army of the dead and gave them shelter and settlements. Of course they'd care.
Click to expand...

It's like you ignored every word ever written about wildlings by GRRM (specifically the part about bowing to nobody, never taking the knee, owing allegiance to no one, etc.). But when it's D/D? SHITTY WRITERS! SHITTY WRITING! HORRIBLE WRITING!

Just nonsense after nonsense with this stuff.
 
Damerman

Damerman

Member
SamVimes said:
Can anyone tell me how the hell are armies sneaking up on people in this show. First the slavers with Tyrion and Jorah, now Dany didn't see nor hear thousand of people on horses until they were under her nose. Are they all Milford School graduates?
Click to expand...

this nitpicking is getting out of hand.
 
N

News Bot

Banned
Damerman said:
I'd like for you to show me a writer who would be able to condense the overwritten mess that was AFFC and ADWD into something excellent with a limited budget and time constraint(both in terms of production time and airing time)
Click to expand...

Pretty much any writer aside from D&D, evidently. AFFC and ADWD are full of travelogues but they're easily condensed and have their fair share of great moments to build around. D&D were just totally inept this season. Barely anything makes any sense even within the confines of the show's own universe.

PantherLotus said:
It's like you ignored every word ever written about wildlings by GRRM (specifically the part about bowing to nobody, never taking the knee, owing allegiance to no one, etc.). But when it's D/D? SHITTY WRITERS! SHITTY WRITING! HORRIBLE WRITING!

Just nonsense after nonsense with this stuff.
Click to expand...

Show me those words, because there's nothing that says Wildlings wouldn't feel indebted to someone who saved their lives. It's not about bowing or allegiance.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Farmboy said:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but I will say that I'm not sure anyone would call the
two most recent
books 'perfectly paced'.

Unless that's part of what you are saying.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I'm saying. All just nonsense criticism of the medium misplaced as criticism for tv writing. Nobody knows anything and I think it's dumb.
 
Damerman

Damerman

Member
News Bot said:
Pretty much any writer aside from D&D, evidently. AFFC and ADWD are full of travelogues but they're easily condensed and have their fair share of great moments to build around. D&D were just totally inept this season. Barely anything makes any sense even within the confines of the show's own universe.
Click to expand...

I feel like you are just saying just a bunch of non words with no actual real criticisms. some of you keep going on about "non sense" as if the show is utterly baseless in it's plots.

You complain that their are plotholes, but then when they try to plug these plot holes with quick scenes, you call it contrived... it's really fucking aggravating and pretty much ruins any kind of fruitful debates we can actually have.
 
N

News Bot

Banned
Damerman said:
I feel like you are just saying just a bunch of non words with no actual real criticisms. some of you keep going on about "non sense" as if the show is utterly baseless in it's plots.

You complain that their are plotholes, but then when they try to plug these plot holes with quick scenes, you call it contrived... it's really fucking aggravating and pretty much ruins any kind of fruitful debates we can actually have.
Click to expand...

Plot holes shouldn't exist in the first place to need to be plugged with quick scenes that don't plug anything at all. That is textbook bad writing. You're not interested in a debate going by your "non words" nonsense.
 
V

Vice

Member
News Bot said:
Then D&D are even shittier writers than they've already shown. He saved thousands of them from an army of the dead and gave them shelter and settlements. Of course they'd care.
Click to expand...

They already think this is some big scheme to kill them all. Having the nice guy die would only make it seem worse for them, like it was all part of one long con.
 
A

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
PantherLotus said:
It's like you ignored every word ever written about wildlings by GRRM (specifically the part about bowing to nobody, never taking the knee, owing allegiance to no one, etc.). But when it's D/D? SHITTY WRITERS! SHITTY WRITING! HORRIBLE WRITING!

Just nonsense after nonsense with this stuff.
Click to expand...

This all "HOW DO YOU DARE CRITICIZE THE SHOW" shtick is getting old even faster than the overraction to show changes.

Yes, show changed things because AFFC\ADWD couldn't realistically be adapted 1:1 like the last books.

Yes, some, or most, of the changes were terrible, and mostly based on "We need something to do for this actor".
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
News Bot said:
Pretty much any writer aside from D&D, evidently. AFFC and ADWD are full of travelogues but they're easily condensed and have their fair share of great moments to build around. D&D were just totally inept this season. Barely anything makes any sense even within the confines of the show's own universe.
Click to expand...

Any writer aside from D&D.

Show me those words, because there's nothing that says Wildlings wouldn't feel indebted to someone who saved their lives. It's not about bowing or allegiance.
Click to expand...

You show me any words, anywhere, showing the Wildings should give two shits about Jon Snow. The burden of proof is on you because you're the one making ridiculous claims.
 
D

DueFiumi

Neo Member
Crisco said:
Why do people think Stannis is alive? I thought that was pretty unambiguous. They cut away from Ice removing Ned's head as well. Honestly the only major characters that got visually explicit deaths were the Red Wedding crew and Viserys. The rest we were spared the actual moment of death or they weren't all that gruesome like Shae and Tywin.
Click to expand...

They should have made it clearer. They should have had Brienne looking directly at the camera and say: "Stannis is dead. I killed him. With my Valyrian steel-sword, Oathkeeper. Now I will go look at a window for a while." And then, after she's walked away, the camera slowly pans to the left. David and Dan are standing there. Staring angrily at the camera with contempt and disgust in their eyes. "He deserved it. He killed Renly the one true king. He was the true Mannis- Not Stannis. Stannis was an idiot." David says while Dan looks more and more furious.

I actually don't hate D&D that much but I had fun writing whatever garbage this is. XD
 
Damerman

Damerman

Member
News Bot said:
Plot holes shouldn't exist in the first place to need to be plugged with quick scenes that don't plug anything at all. That is textbook bad writing.
Click to expand...
bad writing is boring, and this season has been anything but boring(save for dorne). Have fun pedantically trying to understand how stanis couldn't hear the boltons charging or how melisandre and Davos made it to the wall so quickly.
 
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