Because there was a whole scene about it being her choice and that they'd turn around and head back if she said no. And then for everyone slow on the uptake they explicitly said that she did have the choice.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 Offseason Thread
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Because there was a whole scene about it being her choice and that they'd turn around and head back if she said no. And then for everyone slow on the uptake they explicitly said that she did have the choice.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Dany knows jack shit about Westeros. For the longest time she bought into her brother's bullshit that everyone loved her father and that the kingdom was filled with secret Targ supporters who would rise up for her. She's had to be constantly reminded that she needs allies in Westeros, that the common people don't give a shit who is king and that Westeros isn't going to take kindly to be taken be force by Dothraki hoards. Until recently she viewed all Lannisters, Starks and Baratheons as enemies and I'm not sure she even knew what the fuck a "Greyjoys" was.
Dany's weakness is always going to be that she's a shitty ruler who doesn't understand the places she conquerors.
Dagmer was flayed by Ramsay Bolton when he burned down Winterfell.
bengraven
Member
Reminds me of Lena's wrong interpretation of Cersei circa the first season. She finally figured her out eventually...
John Dunbar
correct about everything
in all fairness to both arya and wyman, those freys were probably dead when they went into the dough.
I've never heard about this. Care to elaborate?
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
He was substitute Ramsey. He stopped serving a purpose when actual Ramsey was cast.
Also I'm pretty sure Ramsey killed his character off screen at some point.
bengraven
Member
Maybe I'm remembering her words incorrectly, but I remember an interview with her that seemed to interpret her relationship with Robert much differently than in the books, as well as a few other things. I'll have to find the interview again.
Totally agree. And don't forget, Manderly eats the pies (and asks for seconds!) in the books. Just because he's my favorite minor character ("Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived he would have grown up to be a Frey") doesn't mean he's a good person.
Vire
Member
She is somewhere in between,just like her mother.
I don't think it's that off base.
Bakkus
Member
Ah that's right, but couldn't anyone have escaped that? They seemed to have lots of space to do so.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Yeah, D&D are pretty good at changing plot lines to match the characterizations that the majority of the audience seemed to agree upon. Hence the sand snakes going from female empowered bad asses to dipshit betrayers who Olenna calls out.
Two of the primary antagonists for next season seem pretty set (Cersei & Littlefinger) but I bet they retool Euron.
Damn. Off-screened and unnamed. That's pretty sad for a Game of Thrones death.
Yeah pretty soon shes gonna be yelling at Jon how she wants to have Littlefingers beady eyed rat children.
TWoW Spoilers:
DAT valyrian steel armor
Wyman's not a good person......like at all. He fed the Freys to everyone and ate them himself.
hey_monkey
Banned
There are so many better ways to do this. This was seriously just someone who got a cuh-raaaaazy idea and thought LOL COOL instead of "oh, information presentation." Ugh.
But I just saw it elsewhere too and was gonna bring it here to see if you Tyrion truthers had noticed he was left off. YOUR MYSTERY CONTINUES
The way some people defend Sansa's decision to feed Ramsay to the dogs, you'd think any death is fair game if it's for revenge.
Vire
Member
How was it not justifiable? She was raped by him and he killed her brother.
Man, Sansa could have done worse and I would have been okay with it.
Do you think Book Manderly's actions were justifiable?
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Sansa's yes. Arya's no.
Vire
Member
I mean it's fiction and I recognize the enjoyment for theatrics by baking someone into a pie. I don't really take it at face value, it's too over the top.
Well Arya was there and from outside listened helplessly as Walder Frey killed her brother, mother, and all of his soldiers. She was there, so it was fitting that she would be there again. I think it's the pie bit that puts people off. Book Arya would so have killed Walder Frey and his sons.
Well then you're not taking it the way the author nor the producers want you to.
There's an interview where they talk about how disturbing Sansa is for doing that.
I'll never understand what form of torturous death is alright for good characters to do and which is going too far.
So are there any "good' or "bad" people in fiction? Or is everyone morally neutral, solely judged by how much entertainment you get from their actions.
So are there any "good' or "bad" people in fiction? Or is everyone morally neutral, solely judged by how much entertainment you get from their actions.
Book Arya is a very disturbing person too maybe moreso than Show Arya.
But Book Arya likes to do ironic deaths more than sadistic punishment like Show Arya.
Ned Stark believed in justice. He also felt aht the person who passed the sentence should swing the sword. Presumably, the standard for justifiable deaths are those in which someone is guilty, has the chance to speak for themselves, and are given a quick and painless end.
WrenchNinja
Member
If she was her father's daughter, she would have hung him or had him executed him cleanly, instead of acting like the wife of a Bolton and torturing a prisoner to death
Wyman Manderly was MVP of ADWD for that cold ass shit. Too bad he got nerf'd in the show and they gave all of his cool parts to Arya and the bear cub.
ramsay is part of her now
If Arya ate some of that pie, the Freys are part of her now.
Vire
Member
I feel like there's a significant difference between letting dogs maul someone to death and going through painstaking efforts like a serial killer to put them in a pie. But that's just me.
I find it funny that his best parts were given to two little girls and his last scene is being chastised by one of them
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Book Arya tends to be smarter about things and can think strategically.
She's what any version of Sansa is not.
I mainly think it's hilarious that Arya's revenge is being framed by some as bad while Sansa's is being framed as proof of her becoming a genuis tactician.
WrenchNinja
Member
I would love to give the show the benefit of the doubt and say that Sansa is headed to a more sinister trajectory, but I think dog food was a one time deal
you are what you eat
Well, I obviously agree with that. But there are a lot of people who defend what Sansa did so I have no idea where other people draw the line. If Ramsay had fed someone to the dogs (and he did!) we would condemn him. There's no doubt about that. But Sansa can do it and it's alright? Seems like that's the case for some people. It must be nice to be a "good guy"
So when Ramsay fed Fat Walda to dogs you were alright with that? Good people feed their enemies to dogs?
Exactly. Fucked up is fucked up no matter how nice we think the character is.
Maintenance
Member
And here I thought Ramsay got off easy in the show.
¯\_(ツ
_/¯
¯\_(ツ
_/¯
Vire
Member
Well I mean they were based on completely different motivations, Ramsey feeding Fat Walda to the dogs was out of selfish lust for power, not a burning sense of (justifiable) revenge. Similarly, you have to look at the context of who was being killed by the dogs, an innocent person vs. a crazed murderous, torturous, rapist psychopath. It's not like people would have shed a tear if Hitler died in some incredibly gruesome fashion.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Benefit of the doubt? That's the cheapest way they can possibly go.
And here I thought Ramsay got off easy on the show.
¯\_(ツ
Death by dogs is the roughest death.
For the night is bark and full of terrier.
So if the creators wanted to show that Sansa had been warped by Ramsay, that she did have a piece of him inside her, how would they have showed that influence? Because killing someone in the identical way that Ramsay did earlier in the season is a pretty good indication to me that Sansa is following in her torturer's footsteps.
Preggers arc.
Byakuya769
Member
Plainly this.
Good people can do bad things. Jury is still out on if Sansa is actually good though. She might still be the jealous child that she was years ago. We'll see.
Maintenance
Member
So then she gets an abortion and - what was that, who else had an abortion on the show? Cersei! She's learning the game!
That's my problem. People are saying what Sansa did wasn't bad even though the show has made a point over and over again that only psychopaths relish killing people. Her feeding Ramsay to the dogs and then smiling (smiling!) is so different than when Jon reluctant hanged his murderers and stormed away that I don't understand how anyone can argue what she did was justified. It's like we're watching two different show/living in two different worlds.
Sansa did not kill "like" Ramsay. Sansa did not kill anyone technically.
The whole idea was to bring his arrogance down, as we saw, he almost enjoyed Jon punching him to a pulp, torture wasn't going to do it, and he tortured in worse ways anyway. It was to see his games (starving the dogs so they would eat anything) on him.
The whole idea was to bring his arrogance down, as we saw, he almost enjoyed Jon punching him to a pulp, torture wasn't going to do it, and he tortured in worse ways anyway. It was to see his games (starving the dogs so they would eat anything) on him.
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